ThrottleStop stopped working with Windows 23H2 update, VBS & virtualization disabled, BIOS rollback, no undervolt protection notice, what next?

[patriciocuaron]

Hello! I have a Lenovo X1E Gen 1 with an i7-8750h. I was achieving a very good undervolt, -136mV, with the CPU clocking at 3.9GHz most of the time (vs a 2.2GHz default) and a clearly perceivable difference in UI speed. Then Windows updated to 23H2 and it stopped working. This is my setup:

1. Memory isolation was already disabled from 22H2.
2. I uninstalled the virtualization component.
3. I disabled Credential Guard
   
   

   Configure Credential Guard - Windows Security

   Learn how to configure Credential Guard using MDM, Group Policy, or the registry.

   learn.microsoft.com
   
   I used the Group Policy procedure and the "Disable Credential Guard with UEFI lock" one.
   I used the instructions in that page to confirm that Credential Guard is off.
   
   
4. At some point, a March 2024 BIOS was installed, don't know if at the time of the 23H2 update. So I rolled back to a 2022 BIOS. Specifically, I went from 1.46 (N2EUJ38W) to 1.40 (N2EUJ32W).
   
   

   BIOS Update (Utility & Bootable CD) for Windows 11, 10 (64-bit) - ThinkPad P1 Gen 1, X1 Extreme Gen 1 - Lenovo Support US

   pcsupport.lenovo.com
   
   
5. ThrottleStop 9.6 (running as admin) can't even read the processor's speed.
   Task manager shows the processor at 2.2GHz at most.
   ThrottleStop 9.2 can read the processor speed, 2.2GHz.
   SpeedShift EPP also "decreased" from 64 on 22H2 to 128 in 23H2.
   There's no "Undervolt protection" notice un the FIVR Control group.

Did I miss anything?

I live in a country where computers are incredibly expensive and the variety very limited, otherwise I'd update from this horse-drawn carriage. (Which has 32GB of RAM, hard to get on the low end laptops they sell here.) I use this for work, and I'm desperate, this really halved my PC's speed. Any thank will be appreciated!!

As the msinfo32 screenshot (last one) shows, VBS was still enabled despite all of the settings to disable it. So I turned off all virtualization options in the BIOS, and ThrottleStop is back to working. Hope to find a way to turn them back on at some point without enabling VBS.

 

[unclewebb]

I turned off all virtualization options in the BIOS, and ThrottleStop is back to working.

For some computer you need to disable VT-x or something similar to that in the BIOS. This is necessary so ThrottleStop has full access to the CPU voltage control register.

Hope to find a way to turn them back on at some point without enabling VBS.

Probably not. A 100% safe VBS enabled computer will always prevent ThrottleStop from working correctly. It is what it is. Glad to hear you found a way to run ThrottleStop. What Microsoft and Intel are doing is so poorly thought out that it is killing performance.

It is always a good idea to check the PROCHOT Offset and Lock PROCHOT Offset boxes in the ThrottleStop Options window. Some Lenovo laptops are throttle city when they decide to randomly reduce the thermal throttling temperature to 65°C. Checking these boxes will prevent that from happening.

 

[patriciocuaron]

View attachment 347766


For some computer you need to disable VT-x or something similar to that in the BIOS. This is necessary so ThrottleStop has full access to the CPU voltage control register.


Probably not. A 100% safe VBS enabled computer will always prevent ThrottleStop from working correctly. It is what it is. Glad to hear you found a way to run ThrottleStop. What Microsoft and Intel are doing is so poorly thought out that it is killing performance.

It is always a good idea to check the PROCHOT Offset and Lock PROCHOT Offset boxes in the ThrottleStop Options window. Some Lenovo laptops are throttle city when they decide to randomly reduce the thermal throttling temperature to 65°C. Checking these boxes will prevent that from happening.

You're the author! This program brought me so much joy!! THANK YOU!!!

Back in Win11 22H2 and Windows 10 ThrottleStop worked fine although virtualization was enabled in the BIOS. This seems more a Win11 23H2 than anything else, as it seems to disregard all commands to disable VBS.

PROCHOT displays a locked icon, although thankfully it is fixed at 82C always. (And I understand why, otherwise it'd melt down without the undervolting.)

I can confirm that ThrottleStop 9.6 does NOT work for some reason, only 9.2. Settings seem to be the same.

PP0 was at 100. To how much should I raise it? Using TS Bench PL1 and PL2 don't seem to light in red in the Limit reasons dialog. The only limits I see flash in red are Core/THERMAL and RING/EDP OTHER

 

[unclewebb]

Back in Win11 22H2 and Windows 10 ThrottleStop worked fine although virtualization was enabled in the BIOS.

Improved security is Microsoft's only goal. That can be a pain in the butt for enthusiasts.

thankfully it is fixed at 82C

I would not be too thankful for that. Intel says an 8750H should not start thermal throttling until it reaches 100°C. Premature thermal throttling reduces performance significantly. There might be something wrong in your BIOS for the thermal throttling temperature to be set so low.

I can confirm that ThrottleStop 9.6 does NOT work

What does not work? ThrottleStop 9.6 works correctly on every other user's computer that I have helped with an 8750H processor. I do not recommend using ThrottleStop 9.2.

Using TS Bench PL1 and PL2 don't seem to light in red in the Limit reasons dialog.

PL1 and PL2 are not the reason for throttling in your screenshot. The CORE column of Limit Reasons shows that THERMAL is the reason for throttling. That is what happens when the thermal throttling temperature is set too low. When THERMAL lights up red, that is what triggers EDP OTHER to go red at the same time under the RING column.

I would recommend deleting ThrottleStop 9.2 including the ThrottleStop.INI file and shut down your computer. When you start back up, only use ThrottleStop 9.6. Start this new version, let it create a new ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and post screenshots so I can see how the BIOS has setup your CPU. Your screenshots above are not making any sense. Some thing or some one has set PROCHOT Offset to 18 while ThrottleStop only shows 5 for this value. Post some updated screenshots of ThrottleStop 9.6 if you need help.

 

[patriciocuaron]

Ok, I've erased the TS 9.2 and 9.6 folders, rebooted, and extracted a new copy of 9.6. Weirdly, the CPU is no longer capped at 2.2GHz as before even thought no TS copy was running after rebooting (!), but the voltages were high. And TS 9.6 now can read the CPU freq right after it starts for the first time (previously it didn't show the freq, as can be seen in the screenshots of my first message).

I reconfigured the voltages and set the turbo duration to infinity. Didn't change PP0, as I don't know what's appropriate. PROCHOT lock setting is now disabled and doesn't show a lock icon. PROCHOT offset defaults to 20C, and the PROCHOT indicator in the main monitoring screen reads 80C (it was 82C before as you can see in the previous screenshots, and I didn't change that setting!)

It seems that I can change PROCHOT to 95 now. I'm still getting the same limits while Bench runs. Actual PKG Power does not seem to increase too much, it's likely averaging about 44W during TS Bench. All is stable at -135.7mV, but I start to get TS Bench errors at -136.7mV.

 

[unclewebb]

previously it didn't show the freq

You previously had VBS enabled. That was preventing TS 9.6 from working correctly.

and set the turbo duration to infinity

That does not work. The CPU will ignore your 3.67 million second request. There is also no point in setting any of the turbo ratios higher than the default values that are listed.

likely averaging about 44W

Some laptops with 8750H processors are limited to the 45W rated TDP during any long term stress test. I recommend checking the MMIO Lock box and setting IccMax to the max for both the core and the cache.