:laugh: newtekie1. You have a knack for pissing people off. More than I do. :toast:

so basically its just like when the HD4XXX series came out the 4870 was a small margin faster than the 3870X2 im not really surprised tbh

Valdezforum.hwsw.hu/index.php?showtopic=147595&view=findpost&p=6033805

thats cool. thanks for that, just reading some of the results of the benches there - the GTX295 does an amazing job & in most cases in benches where it beats the 5870 it beats it senseless like a moose clubbing a yeti over the head with a turkey drumstick. this is awesome!

ArmoredCavalryIf this is the true performance, I really can't see it being priced at $300 (at least not for long). :\

Also, about physX, I could care less about physX. It was a joke when Ageia owned it, and it is a joke now that Nvidia owns it. I stood next to some flags with phsyX on in Mirror's Edge. Hey look waving flags. Then I turned off phsyX, hey look waving flags, and now I get 20 more fps....

In the past couple of months i have seen 5 games getting released that support Ageia ( Including Batman Arkham Asylum ) so on what do you base your assumption ? Ageia does NOT improve graphics, it makes them more Realistic so a flag is not exactly what i would call special in terms of rendering.

mdm-adphAll a business does is try to make more money -- that's the motive. The stupid "Way It's Meant to Be Played" is the evidence. End of line.

But that's all I'm going to bother saying -- it's not worth it.

Another reason why they've got nothing to lose is that they've got people like you, ready to defend anything they do. :laugh:

Broken logic. If anything like that was happening, AMD or Ati before, would have said something. You pretend that a company spends millions hurting the competition (because that's bussiness right?) and the competition does nothing in the meantime?

Against a company that spends millions doing somehing like that, the answer couldn't be simpler: a press conference stating what's happening. But in 5+ years nothing, nada. In the meantime AMD has been engaged in 3 antitrust cases against Intel, spending millions in each of them.

And don't pretend that in 5 years Ati couldn't find a single proof against Nvidia's evil conspiration, if that was happening, both Ati and Nvidia know a lot of each others specs, deadlines, mannufacturing success, etc, because they have spies. Now that IS bussiness.

Stop with the TWIMTBP BS for once...

Wow! I forgot to write the iportant part...

Those are nice FPS numbers we are seing here! I'll wait until Wizzard does a good review though. I never believe slides like those, where not onlythey pick the games that best suit them but also the best settings. Going down to 8X AF from 16x or upping the AA to 8x as they see fit. I hate that. Let's see some real numbers in the 23rd.

How did we get into a TWIMTBP discussion again? Look, nVidia pays developers to optimize, not to make ATI perform worse. If ATI wants devs to optimize for their hardware, they need to pay up as well. Until then, the responsibility falls on ATI to optimize in drivers. That's the path they choose, for whatever reasons they may have. It's not a damn conspiracy.

As far as these bench results, I'll take them with a grain of salt. I'll wait for the NDA to be lifted and check out official reviews.

when will be the 5870 X2 available?

was the guy drunk when he did the benchmark? i never put much stock in these initial benchmarks anyway. ill go through 3 of them from different sources (tpu being 1 of them) and then make my buying decision. except i will be buying nvidia dx11 cards.

nV doesn't even pay anything, they borrow engineers to developers participating their TWIMTBP program so that they can optimise the game engine to run optimally on their own graphics architecture. End of story.

Wile EHow did we get into a TWIMTBP discussion again? Look, nVidia pays developers to optimize, not to make ATI perform worse. If ATI wants devs to optimize for their hardware, they need to pay up as well. Until then, the responsibility falls on ATI to optimize in drivers. That's the path they choose, for whatever reasons they may have. It's not a damn conspiracy.

As far as these bench results, I'll take them with a grain of salt. I'll wait for the NDA to be lifted and check out official reviews.

im sure amd is trying to create some anti-competition lawsuit against nvidia. they did it with intel...

BenetanegiaBroken logic. If anything like that was happening, AMD or Ati before, would have said something. You pretend that a company spends millions hurting the competition (because that's bussiness right?) and the competition does nothing in the meantime?

Against a company that spends millions doing somehing like that, the answer couldn't be simpler: a press conference stating what's happening. But in 5+ years nothing, nada. In the meantime AMD has been engaged in 3 antitrust cases against Intel, spending millions in each of them.

And don't pretend that in 5 years Ati couldn't find a single proof against Nvidia's evil conspiration, if that was happening, both Ati and Nvidia know a lot of each others specs, deadlines, mannufacturing success, etc, because they have spies. Now that IS bussiness.

Never said it was evil -- it's just business. And who knows? Not that the Intel case is mostly over, maybe they'll do something on the nVidia front.

Wile EHow did we get into a TWIMTBP discussion again? Look, nVidia pays developers to optimize, not to make ATI perform worse. If ATI wants devs to optimize for their hardware, they need to pay up as well. Until then, the responsibility falls on ATI to optimize in drivers. That's the path they choose, for whatever reasons they may have. It's not a damn conspiracy.

As far as these bench results, I'll take them with a grain of salt. I'll wait for the NDA to be lifted and check out official reviews.

Nvidia hired Oswald because JFK wasn't playing the way it was meant to be played.

Just kind of wondering. Isn't the 5870 DX11. It's nice that it is doing well with the DX10./10.1 but we won't really know how it performs until some DX11 games are out.

Other wise we are into the old battle of , you ran the card with/without physix/ you ran with 10 not 10.1 etc.

We need to compare apples to apples.

At this point, people are going to be buying these for the same reason they bought 8800GTX's. Because they dominate the last generation of DX, not because they can run the latest which has next to no games.

Easy Rhinoim sure amd is trying to create some anti-competition lawsuit against nvidia. they did it with intel...

They did it with Intel because Intel was cheating and they had proofs. Also the lawsuit was filled in 2005.

Intel also faces a U.S. lawsuit filed in federal court by rival chip maker Advanced Micro Devices (nyse: AMD - news - people ) in 2005, claiming that Intel had forced PC makers to boycott AMD, "threatened retaliation" against customers using or selling AMD processors and offered rebates to customers designed to block the purchase of AMD's products.

Source: www.forbes.com/2008/06/06/intel-antitrust-ftc-tech-enter-cx_ag_0606intel.html

mdm-adphNever said it was evil -- it's just business. And who knows? Not that the Intel case is mostly over, maybe they'll do something on the nVidia front.

If Ati or AMD had one against Nvidia we would know already. TWIMTBP is been in place since 2002(?) I think. In that long, Ati/AMD had time to create a fake game developer themselves, enter the program and discover exactly what happens under TWIMTBP, have some proofs and all that. They had the time to do that 4 times.

Sorry to insist, but a competitive company wouldn't let another one outsell them in a 2/1 basis for so long without saying something if they had the slightless idea that something shaddy like that was happening. AMD did exactly that legally (filling a lawsuit) in 2005 regarding Intel's behavior, but was stating the same "unnoficially" since much earlier. Show me an official statement regarding TWIMTBP or even an AMD/Ati representative that says something that looks even slightly suspicious. Maybe then, this conversation could have some sense. But it won't. It doesn't matter how hard you try to convince an alien conspirator that they are not here, they will always find something to make them think there's a posibility. And if it's posible, it's happening, that's the logic they follow. And sorry mate, but it's happening the same to you here. Look some posts above if you want to read yourself saying that...

newtekie1At this point, people are going to be buying these for the same reason they bought 8800GTX's. Because they dominate the last generation of DX, not because they can run the latest which has next to no games.

If I was one of the ones who got a GTX when it came out...I'd be extremely happy as it still puts up a good fight even two years later! :toast:



The 5870 should dominate all the current cards, look at the 1GB 4870 vs 3870x2, it slaps it silly....but you'd expect it to being a whole gen newer.

I am interested in these new ATI cards as the idea of having one card drawing less power and being just as powerful as my current Crossfire setup is almost orgasmic. :roll:

newtekie1At this point, people are going to be buying these for the same reason they bought 8800GTX's. Because they dominate the last generation of DX, not because they can run the latest which has next to no games.

DX11 may make a little impact on a buying decision, but it's all about performance. If I were to buy a card for DX11, I would wait a while. For a single GPU solution that can compete with 4870x2s and GTX295s there is definitely a temptation to get one.

LaidLawJonesJust kind of wondering. Isn't the 5870 DX11. It's nice that it is doing well with the DX10./10.1 but we won't really know how it performs until some DX11 games are out.

Other wise we are into the old battle of , you ran the card with/without physix/ you ran with 10 not 10.1 etc.

We need to compare apples to apples.

apples to apples? Performance is relative, if it performs 15% better on 9/10.1/11, it is likely to do the same on 11. This has been proven time and time again.

Meh, all this 'nvidia are evil, no, ati are dumb' about TWIMTBP is retarded. :banghead:

The reality is they're both as evil as each other and have both worked together to stiff us out of our hard earned dosh.

Price Fixing

They're both soulless corporations that exist solely to squeeze as much money out of us as possible - absolutely crazy to back one rather than the other.

So anyway. I'm pretty excited to see what these can new GPUs can do. Will be waiting to see what's Nvidia's offerings can do before I buy one though.

erockerDX11 may make a little impact on a buying decision, but it's all about performance. If I were to buy a card for DX11, I would wait a while. For a single GPU solution that can compete with 4870x2s and GTX295s there is definitely a temptation to get one.

I don't think it will have any this time around. After the DX10 fiasco most people won't jump into the same trap again. I expect exactly the oposite in fact, that most people will be more skeptical about DX11 than they should. But that's just my opinion.

BenetanegiaI don't think it will have any this time around. After the DX10 fiasco most people won't jump into the same trap again. I expect exactly the oposite in fact, that most people will be more skeptical about DX11 than they should. But that's just my opinion.

You are quite right. Many people feel burned/scorned by DX10. Here's to hoping DX11 doesn't turn into DX10. :toast:

newtekie1It is a big leap for the single GPU, but more importantly a very good sign. It is the first time in a long while that ATi has managed to put out a next generation single GPU card that can top all the cards from a previous generation. This is what the industry/consumer needs.

my observation is based on the fact that the greens will also launch a new gpu (i also remember the news with the 500 times more powerful...) so i expected a little bit more:)

erockerYou are quite right. Many people feel burned/scorned by DX10. Here's to hoping DX11 doesn't turn into DX10. :toast:

I couldn't care less about DX10 or DX11, as long as the DX9 performance is much faster! :laugh:

Don't get me wrong though. I think sales will be better comparatively (after calculating the impact of the recession), just based on performance.

mdm-adphI couldn't care less about DX10 or DX11, as long as the DX9 performance is much faster! :laugh:

That is true. Until the console porting crap ends, we are somehow bound to DX9 performance.