faramir... because everybody wants dual CrossfireX in x8/x8 PCI-e configuration with an equivalent of Athlon II 635 with its fGPU disabled.

What's the point of using an APU if one doesn't utilize its fGPU capability ?

RejZoRBut still, it's a bit idiotic that my old ASUS II Gene can do 2x full PCIe 16x in crossfire but new boards can't. In fact Intel X48 boards were able to use full 2x 16x PCIe. I thought new boards should be better even if just theoretical than old ones...

faramir... because everybody wants dual CrossfireX in x8/x8 PCI-e configuration with an equivalent of Athlon II 635 with its fGPU disabled.

What's the point of using an APU if one doesn't utilize its fGPU capability ?

TheLaughingManWell first you have no basis for claim it will be on par with an AII 635. You are just pulling that out of thin air.

RejZoRBut still, it's a bit idiotic that my old ASUS II Gene can do 2x full PCIe 16x in crossfire but new boards can't. In fact Intel X48 boards were able to use full 2x 16x PCIe. I thought new boards should be better even if just theoretical than old ones...

kirtarHe may not have stated his basis, but I suspect that it was this:
www.anandtech.com/show/4448/amd-llano-desktop-performance-preview/2

Try comparing it to H67 then.

TheLaughingManYou can't go by SysMark numbers. AMD, Nvidia, and VIA all dropped endorsement on their upcoming crapware for a reason. They have a history of bias, unfair testing that does not take full advantage of support instructions simply based on brand instead of what the chip can do.

TheLaughingManWell first you have no basis for claim it will be on par with an AII 635. You are just pulling that out of thin air.

And the point is value. The A-series desktop CPU's will be the $100 to $200 chip range. It would allow budget minded buyers to get a mid-ranged Chip and a decent board with very little money; however, they will not have to sacrifice Crossfire or other luxury features to do it. Thats why.

kirtarThat's probably why Anand used more than just SysMark. The scroll bar exists for a reason

faramirKirtar beat me to this part.

My point exactly, this is about value the customer gets. You've got this "budget" $170 APU which requires $100+ board and uses up some of system's RAM for fGPU graphics ($10 for 1 GB fair enough ?) and it's supposed to give customer better value than AMD's existing products, say a $115 Phenom II 955BE, $65 fully featured ATX format AM3 motherboard and $70 Radeon HD5670 combination that can mop the floor with A8-3850 any day of the week and twice on sunday, yet costs less. Where is value in that ?

If there is value to be had in this market, compromises are going to have to be made and crippled CrossfireX support on a platform that is all about integration of relatively powerful GPU and decent CPU makes as much sense as selling refrigerators to Eskimos living in a tent with no electricity. Instead they (= the ecosystem of AMD and their partners who manufacture motherboards) should focus on bringing the price down - into the medium range AM3 board range at the very least. On one hand they are touting GPU performance of Llano while on the other hand they are implying that GPU performance sucks and customers will ultimately want to go with discrete solution or even worse, a discrete CrossfireX solution. Which one is it ?

Make buy-in (= motherboard and 1600 or faster RAM) affordable and success in desktop market will follow. Make buy-in expensive (by providing pointless "features" for platform destined to the "value" segment) and you'll corner yourself out of the market with your own products, nevermind the competition from the company that shall not be named in this post.

NC37People would complain even more if they provided no discrete option with APUs. But yeah you gotta ask that...why don't they just build them better so you wouldn't need discrete? Tech just isn't there yet, not for everyone. But if someone is building a set top box with performance in mind, they won't be buying an APU setup. You would buy Intel or Phenom/FX. I can see these APU setups getting bundled into prebuilt rigs more and later the user will want the ability to get discrete graphics.

Don't see the point in arguing over a chip that will shine more in the mobile market and niche markets. They'll get the Crossfire fixed eventually. But ultimately these are just first gens. Interesting and neat, sure, but 2nd and 3rd gen designs will likely be where things will start really looking better.

TheLaughingManCrossfire is not broken.

TheLaughingManSecond, no one said the F1 socket boards will be at least $100. As usually those boards based on features will range from $65 to $120, so buy a cheaper board.

Finally the obvious answer to why not buy the current Phenom II and such is they are being flushed out of the market. They price was dropped to clear stock so there is storage room for the new chips.

The second very obvious reason is the improved power consumption with the new chips showing they will at least perform as well as current chips while consuming less power.

I am not saying the A-series will be great or will not need revisions in the near future. I am saying wait for more conclusive testing and AMD confirmed information.

faramirThe cheapest I can find is 67 EUR (= US$95) at one of the local pricelist sites:

faramirThe cheapest I can find is 67 EUR (= US$95) at one of the local pricelist sites:

geizhals.at/a655277.html

I don't think they are going to get much cheaper than that, Asrock's boards are the cheapest of the lot here and there isn't anything more you could take away from the board to make it 30% cheaper still (to get into $65 range) as all key features are part of the chipset, there are no expensive heatpipe-based heatsinks, no extra expansion or memory slots to get rid off, it's bare essentials.

NdMk2o1oUsually with tech the dollar = £1gbp/1 EUR go check out, so $60-$70 might be about right