Wednesday, November 9th 2011

All's Well That Haswell?

Here are the first slides detailing Haswell, Intel's next generation processor architecture that succeeds Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge. Intel follows a "tick-tock" product development model. Every year, Intel's product lineup sees either of the two. A "tock" brings in a new x86 architecture, a "tick" miniaturizes it to a newer silicon fabrication process. For example, Sandy Bridge is Intel's latest architecture, and is based on the 32 nm fab process. Ivy Bridge is a miniaturization of Sandy Bridge to 22 nm. Likewise, Haswell will be a brand new architecture, it will use the 22 nm fab process cemented by Ivy Bridge.

If all goes well with Intel's 22 nm process, Haswell is scheduled for Q2 2013. 2012 (Q2 onwards) will be led by Ivy Bridge. But then here's a "shocker": Haswell's desktop version will use a brand new socket, LGA1150, and will be incompatible with LGA1155. This is because of drastic changes in the pin map of the package. Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge share the LGA1155 socket, and will hence, have kept the socket alive for over 2 years. A major change with the component arrangement in the platform that is affecting Haswell's pin map is that Haswell will have a higher bandwidth chipset bus, rearranged PCIe pins (with FDI pins), rearranged power pins, and miscellaneous pins. It does away with a separate power domain for the integrated graphics controller.

Haswell will bring several new features to the table, including next-generation RapidStart quick boot capabilities that reduce cold-boot times to 2 seconds. The processor's IPC will be increased over Ivy Bridge. The mobile version will include features that will further increase battery life of mainstream notebooks. Haswell will feature improved media HD to HD transcoding capabilities. It will bring technologies such as NFC (near-field communication), and Thunderbolt (10 Gbps interconnect) to the masses.

Moving on to the platform itself, it is named "Shark Bay", and will be available in 2-chip quad-core and 1-chip dual-core variants. The quad-core chips and some dual-core chips will use the usual socketed motherboards with a single-chip chipset (PCH) which is smaller than today's PCH chips, while the some dual-core chips will completely integrate the PCH into the processor's package, eliminating an external chipset. The dual-core chips will be available in BGA packages.Source: ChipHell
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69 Comments on All's Well That Haswell?

#1
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
I'm starting to get the impression that Intel wants you to buy a new motherboard every two years. :(
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#2
Jstn7477
Meh, if they have to make a new socket for early 2013 to make their new architecture work, that's fine. Look at AMD holding themselves back with the same sockets and chipsets for the last few years to respect "compatibility." You would think they would have to change the pin map *significantly* at least once within the last nearly 6 years to make something NOT resemble an Athlon 64 X2? You wouldn't use a Pentium III Coppermine board for a 3.8GHz P4 EE, would you?
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#3
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
Sounds interesting.

I don't mind the change in motherboards required for a new architecture, as compatibility often puts constraints on performance and compatibility.
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#4
pantherx12
by: qubit
Sounds interesting.

I don't mind the change in motherboards required for a new architecture, as compatibility often puts constraints on performance and compatibility.
Do you really think they couldn't of managed it with their current socket? ( not nesscerily this one as I don't know all the details, but the others they've done and are out now)

It's defitnitely a deliberate way to make people upgrade their entire system rather than just one part.
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#5
DanTheBanjoman
Señor Moderator
by: FordGT90Concept
I'm starting to get the impression that Intel wants you to buy a new motherboard every two years. :(
Preferably every day. It's a company, their sole purpose is to make money.
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#6
ensabrenoir
[Price of true performance increases. Though intels cpus are way more powerful than what we typically need them for. First gen Ix could last u for several years.without much problems. But If you want a benz u gotta pay for a benz and its up keep.[/INDENT]
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#7
Feänor
by: pantherx12
Do you really think they couldn't of managed it with their current socket? ( not nesscerily this one as I don't know all the details, but the others they've done and are out now)

It's defitnitely a deliberate way to make people upgrade their entire system rather than just one part.
Agreed. With the budget of their R&D department, which could be the one of a small country, i really don't think they can change socket every two years. As architecture advance, there will be necessary socket changes, but they don't act like they're trying avoid it. And god it fit with the intel attitude of these last years: Dominate. And charge whatever you like amount of cash for that performance.
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#8
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
by: pantherx12
Do you really think they couldn't of managed it with their current socket? ( not nesscerily this one as I don't know all the details, but the others they've done and are out now)

It's defitnitely a deliberate way to make people upgrade their entire system rather than just one part.
Could be, but without having the fine details of both architectures, I wouldn't want to speculate one way or the other. There could be little gotchas here and there that would hold things back significantly. Could be also be a mix of profiteering and technical improvement for all I know. Dunno without said details.

by: DanTheBanjoman
Preferably every day. It's a company, their sole purpose is to make money.
Since when? I'm shocked! :eek: :laugh:
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#9
parelem
Very interested in seeing the BGA offerings...
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#10
Sasqui
by: parelem
Very interested in seeing the BGA offerings...
Is that referring to the old Ball Grid Array assembly packaging?
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#11
DanTheBanjoman
Señor Moderator
by: qubit

Since when? I'm shocked! :eek: :laugh:
Good, my sole purpose is to shock you. Isn't it nice how everything has a purpose?
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#12
gumpty
by: Feanor
As architecture advance, there will be necessary socket changes, but they don't act like they're trying avoid it.
Why would they bother to avoid it? Something like 95% of their processors are sold to people who don't know what a socket is, in a generic box with a power button that makes the screen run some funny windows program.

EDIT: Of course there is the cost incurred on partners who have to develop and engineer new motherboards.
Posted on Reply
#13
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
by: gumpty
Why would they bother to avoid it? Something like 95% of their processors are sold to people who don't know what a socket is, in a generic box with a power button that makes the screen run some funny windows program.
Oh god yes, that does sound like the clueless 95% of users. Cue my workplace...

"makes the screen run some funny windows program." Excellent, love it. :D
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#14
Drone
Today everyone changes their pc like you change your socks. "New" sockets no longer surprise anyone
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#15
erixx
99% don't change mobos nor processors so...
and we the elite don't care, even better, we love to change'em moar and moar, we have spare time and money to burn haha

no seriously: mobos are of the few parts that still contain excitement and evolution!
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#16
NdMk2o1o
Who care's if it's a new socket every 2 years, it was a new chipset every 2 years with LGA775 that you needed to buy a new motherboard for if you wanted the latest chip, there's no difference.
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#17
the54thvoid
I think it's fine for a company to change their product line every two years. As long as the change is a process of technological innovation then why complain? I've had my x58 for over 2.5 years now. I know there are folk out there with much older set ups still going strong.

Nobody forces us to buy a new platform - it's a freedom we get to choose. There really is no point trying to pin your product evolution on the premise that we must please our users (especially if that premise holds back our development). If we've pleased our users enough, then the product they've got should last comfortably for more than two years.

Upgrading is a choice, not an obligation.
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#18
freaksavior
To infinity ... and beyond!
here we go again.... thanks intel.
Posted on Reply
#19
parelem
by: Sasqui
Is that referring to the old Ball Grid Array assembly packaging?
Yes, which will be used for embedded systems. I've been less than impressed with the current embedded core i series offerings, these Haswell chips should provide what I'm looking for.
Posted on Reply
#20
Jstn7477
by: NdMk2o1o
Who care's if it's a new socket every 2 years, it was a new chipset every 2 years with LGA775 that you needed to buy a new motherboard for if you wanted the latest chip, there's no difference.
Exactly. Plus, there will likely be stuff like full SATA 6Gb/s controllers and built-in USB 3.0 by then.
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#21
micksh
by: NdMk2o1o
Who care's if it's a new socket every 2 years, it was a new chipset every 2 years with LGA775 that you needed to buy a new motherboard for if you wanted the latest chip, there's no difference.
It didn't have to be that way.
I still have ASrock 775Dual-VSTA motherboard with VIA PT880 chipset that was made for Pentium 4/Pentium D. It works with at least 4 generations of CPUs. From 90nm Pentium 4 to 45nm Core 2 Duo. Got both DDR1/DDR2 and AGP/PCIe support too.
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#22
Enmity
funny how the great intel is still only bringing out 4 core cpus in 2013 according to those slides - surely the slides must be only pointing to the lowest end haswell cpus rather than 6, 8 and 12 core cpus.

I remember a few years ago there was this big hoo haa over by the time 2012 hits, we'll be seeing up to 32 core cpus - granted this was just a prediction. If competition was as fierce as it was back then, then i suppose we probably could have seen an increase to at least 20+ cores. Since then though we've all found out that by simply slapping on more cores is no good either...coughbulldozercough.
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#23
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
by: micksh
It didn't have to be that way.
I still have ASrock 775Dual-VSTA motherboard with VIA PT880 chipset that was made for Pentium 4/Pentium D. It works with at least 4 generations of CPUs. From 90nm Pentium 4 to 45nm Core 2 Duo. Got both DDR1/DDR2 and AGP/PCIe support too.
Yeah, that's one thing I like about AsRock, they bring out these handy hybrid mobos that no one else does. More companies should follow their lead in this respect, I think.
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#24
erocker
by: FordGT90Concept
I'm starting to get the impression that Intel wants you to buy a new motherboard every two years. :(
I'm sure Intel would love it if you bought a new motherboard every two hours. Thing is, it's really not up to Intel but the end-user. In two years will you need a new motherboard/CPU if you're using something from their existing lineup? Doubt it.
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#25
20mmrain
This is stupid! Hopefully bulldozer will come to in to it's own by then.
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