Wednesday, December 7th 2011

Windows 8 'Irrelevant' For PC Users

Well, it looks like the Windows 8 flagship feature, the Metro interface, isn't going down too well with PC users, according to leading market research firm International Data Corp. On top of that, there aren't really any killer improvements in the operating system that make shelling out for a new version compelling. The Metro interface, while suited to a smartphone or tablet, really doesn't do anything for a desktop PC, because it's operation is very restrictive compared to the standard desktop that's been around for over 15 years on Windows and is now a very refined and sophisticated user interface. Also, the fact that many organizations have only recently migrated to Windows 7 and are not looking to spend money in the current economic climate and go through the pains of another upgrade cycle again isn't helping. The poor economy looks like it will hamper sales of Windows 8 on its target devices, tablets, too. Finally, IDC said: "(T)here will be intense scrutiny on Microsoft’s ability to deliver a successful tablet experience aboard both x86-based tablets and on devices running ARM processors. This is a tall order for Microsoft, and while the x86 tablet strategy makes sense as a transitional solution for today’s PC users, it will be the ARM-based devices that need to shine and clear a high bar already set by Apple."

Sources: xbit labs, zdnet
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150 Comments on Windows 8 'Irrelevant' For PC Users

#1
gourygabriev
But isn't Windows 8 supposed to improve on multi-threading? Like it uses less physical cores because it distributes the threads by feeding it to the CPU more conservatively by laning it on a per core basis as opposed to just letting the CPU run the threads to any of its cores even if it only needs a few cores to process it? NOt sure if I am explaining it right but here's my noob paint skills to explain :)





Won't that help in power efficiency? Won't it help multi-threaded games?
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#2
Steevo
you misunderstand what windows does for thread scheduling.

Windows 7 is thread blind so to speak. In your diagram if left to right thread 1 was assigned to core 0 out of three threads the application was running total it would execute them simultaniously. If thread 2 on core 1 was depending on information from thread 1 on core 0 to process and for example if we had Intel Hyperthreading running it might assign it the following way.


Core 0/Thread 1 Real core
Core 1/Thread 2 HT core

So the dependant workload would be running on the same core creating at least two cycles of waste as the first thread has to fully execute and the results have to be written to the registers before the second thread can execute.


Windows 8 on the other hand will look at cores and HT cores, or other versions of multithreading per core differently and allocate dependant threads to individual real cores, and hopefully even within the same module so the shared resources will allow optomized processing.

1 core with HT VS 2 cores is not the same. Up till Windows 8 however the difference and the minimal number of true multithreaded applications has been limited, however this is changing as we are going more cores and less Ghz, if it went the way they thought it was we would all be running dual core 10Ghz processors and it woudn't matter.
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#3
micropage7
one that innovative and dumb is metro interface for desktop pc.
it looks nice but placing it as first screen? i dont think its a nice for desktop
why dont they put it as start menu?
i guess windows wants people get familiar with that so they familiar with windows phone too so windows could assume if they buy phone, win phone would be in their list
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#4
Covert_Death
i don't like the metro UI, but it has a desktop in it still, so that part of the OS is not gone, its just another layer now. the developer preview is fast as hell though, and THAT i am looking forward to. hopefully you will be able to set the desktop as the default UI and metro secondary in the final release, if so im buying it
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#5
n-ster
by: WhiteLotus
Which is why Windows8 is irrelevant to PC users. If you describe PC users as the people that use them at work.
I'm sorry, but do all jobs require a program that works only on Windows XP?

You are saying that windows 7 and 8 are irrelevant to PC users... I am disagreeing with that and I'm sure many stats will disagree with it too
Posted on Reply
#6
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
by: Covert_Death
i don't like the metro UI, but it has a desktop in it still, so that part of the OS is not gone, its just another layer now. the developer preview is fast as hell though, and THAT i am looking forward to. hopefully you will be able to set the desktop as the default UI and metro secondary in the final release, if so im buying it
Yeah, it's fast all right. Unfortunately, MS intend on making Metro the default UI. :ohwell: Perhaps one can change this in the control panel for the RTM version, we'll just have to wait and see.
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#7
n-ster
It's not like us techies can't figure out how to disable the Metro UI anyways
Posted on Reply
#8
gourygabriev
by: Steevo
you misunderstand what windows does for thread scheduling.

Windows 7 is thread blind so to speak. In your diagram if left to right thread 1 was assigned to core 0 out of three threads the application was running total it would execute them simultaniously. If thread 2 on core 1 was depending on information from thread 1 on core 0 to process and for example if we had Intel Hyperthreading running it might assign it the following way.


Core 0/Thread 1 Real core
Core 1/Thread 2 HT core

So the dependant workload would be running on the same core creating at least two cycles of waste as the first thread has to fully execute and the results have to be written to the registers before the second thread can execute.


Windows 8 on the other hand will look at cores and HT cores, or other versions of multithreading per core differently and allocate dependant threads to individual real cores, and hopefully even within the same module so the shared resources will allow optomized processing.

1 core with HT VS 2 cores is not the same. Up till Windows 8 however the difference and the minimal number of true multithreaded applications has been limited, however this is changing as we are going more cores and less Ghz, if it went the way they thought it was we would all be running dual core 10Ghz processors and it woudn't matter.
Ah I see :) thanks for the clarification.
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#9
micropage7
by: qubit
Yeah, it's fast all right. Unfortunately, MS intend on making Metro the default UI. :ohwell: Perhaps one can change this in the control panel for the RTM version, we'll just have to wait and see.
yep
or just hope someone release apps to control it :toast:
Posted on Reply
#10
djcl.ear
by: digibucc
(...)windows has been lacking them for so long, i've already BOUGHT third party software or found perfect free software to handle it. i'm not going to drop my current software unless windows provides a feature i can't get or does one better - and why upgrade if there are no added benefits?
We are getting to the point where the "ecosystem" is rendering substantial new functionalities. Skype activated parrot-style following you while you walk around the house by the TV, Kitchen, etc.
Or voice differencing allowing for data to be shown at a work meeting depending on the speaker demand whoever she/he is, or Excel filling data by voice and touch combination... Yes, Excel and touch seems like a perfect match, the same way WORD and Voice also will easily fit.

The technologies Steevo and others here list: handwriting and voice recognition, speak to text, facial and partial body recognition, motion and voice activated features, bio and NeuroControl.
All are already mature to have existing products on the shelves:
http://www.gamesradar.com/mindwave-a-99-brainwave-sensor-now-on-sale/
To show the rarest.
But to hint the functionalities now at reach, better read on some new functions of recently released 2nd Kinect SDK, of which apps are starting what seem to become a BIG Wave:
*Sound source localization for beamforming, which enables the determination of a sound’s spatial location, enhancing reliability when integrated with the Microsoft speech recognition API.
*Depth data, which provides the distance of an object from the Kinect camera.
*Highly performant and robust skeletal tracking capabilities for determining the body positions of one or two persons moving within the Kinect field of view.


What we DO need is an OS that actually facilitates the interconnection and merge of all these, allowing for new functions and vast efficiency improvements in one environment.
To me this is not just creating an ecosystem, its allowing for the evolution of Era in control and IT funcionalties. This is not just about fast and compatibility. It's radical new functions and ways of doing the old and new.
One good example of how this evolution comes to be possible, is The Touchable Hologram. It has been in our fantasies since the 70s, and several attempts have been tried by adding soundwaves, air pressure shaping and who knows what else to "densify them". However now
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/113457.html
Techs left holograms in their physical band while adding Kinect and CPU to it, allowing for precise in air control from users wanting to interact...with whatever an hologram conveys... This is the kind of new capacities found with the interaction of several techniques, instead of trying to force certain technology, device or software, to do it all by itself.
Posted on Reply
#11
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
I just came across one of my old news stories: Windows 8 and Metro was looking like a pile of fail even way back in December 2011!

Nice to see the industry predictions were right all along. :)
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#12
Ravenas
An OS that is the same across all over Microsoft's products is relevant.
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#13
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
The sales figures say otherwise.
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#14
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
What are those figures exactly? The only ones i've seen where the ones that came about three months after release and they looked fine.

Also, why the fruck do you bump your own angled stories? I know you have a huge ego, but this is retarded.
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#15
TRWOV
The Non-OEM revenue at the Windows Division was up 40% according to the Q3 2013 results... and I don't think Surface is responsible for that.

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#16
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
It was really, really stupid of Microsoft to not have a Windows 7 mode in Windows 8 and be used by default on non-touch enabled devices. And by really, really stupid, I mean the dumbest thing ever Microsoft has done.


by: TRWOV
The Non-OEM revenue at the Windows Division was up 40% according to the Q3 2013 results... and I don't think Surface is responsible for that.

http://imageshack.us/a/img692/7006/windowsq3fy2013600x338j.png
Because Windows 7 is still widely available and XP is going EoL.

If that includes Windows Phone then Windows Phone too.
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#17
djcl.ear
by: qubit
I just came across one of my old news stories: Windows 8 and Metro was looking like a pile of fail even way back in December 2011!
Nice to see the industry predictions were right all along. :)
Well. Yes, Microsoft Administration released an OS that is way far from the possibilities pointed at post 111 in this thread.
Instead, they opted for forcing consumers into unfriendly OS usage and functions, really planting the basis for their increased control respect software to be installed, control over laptops/PCs use in or out the web, even making difficult to turn off the device....
In sum, they want increased control.

Whereas now, any OS developer is really at a crossroad; either to facilitate an ecosystem growth or to remain a closed (and smaller) environment...
Microsoft seems to have opted for OWNING the ecosystem and thus bought and re/manufactured; Skype, Kinect, Game consoles, released its own tablets, aim to control phones, etc, etc.

Instead of... embarking on the construction of a wide and deep long-term net of associations and contracts in order to open the gates to add and develop new functionalities. By now every appliance manufacturer, and really, any electronic-related manufacturer should have some kind of approach by Microsoft in order to -at least- begin to explore the possible synergies thru Windows with existing software or hardware...
And this should be some kind of publicly open push.

I sort of understand this initiative is yet to be made, taking in account Microsoft culture. What is difficult to conceive is that Microsoft failed to incorporate their already own tech into Windows8 in some kind of novel way. Skype being the notorious one, but Kinect is a gross omission as well, as their speech to text, voice recognition, etc... All pointing to their actual administration lack of understanding of the world we are growing into.

///In that context, some predictions were quite spot on, regardless the aid to their actual sales numbers provided by their corporate customers.
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#18
AphexDreamer
by: FordGT90Concept
It was really, really stupid of Microsoft to not have a Windows 7 mode in Windows 8 and be used by default on non-touch enabled devices. And by really, really stupid, I mean the dumbest thing ever Microsoft has done.
Win 8 is still very much just like windows 7 in terms of UI (Metro Start just being windows 7's start that takes up the whole screen), IMO it would have been very stupid for them to have a separate windows 7 mode.
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#19
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
@djcl.ear

You're absolutely right: it is indeed all about control and maximizing profits by locking the customer up tight in Microsoft's restrictive ecosystem, like Apple.

Cool avatar btw, what is that a picture of?


@frick

Whinge! Whinge! Whinge! You're such a plonker, you crack me up! :toast:

I think unintentionally upsetting you with a completely innocuous observation about Windows 8 that everyone else found useful but you was the highlight of my evening. :) It would be worth writing for TPU again just to see the look on your face...
Posted on Reply
#20
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
by: qubit


@frick

Whinge! Whinge! Whinge! You're such a plonker, you crack me up! :toast:

I think unintentionally upsetting you with a completely innocuous observation about Windows 8 that everyone else found useful but you was the highlight of my evening. :) It would be worth writing for TPU again just to see the look on your face...
Everyone but the ones disagreeing with you, you mean. But no wait they can't be right, because you're not wrong! Your opinions are facts! At least that is how you write things, even still. I still think it was massively stupid to bump an old thread just so you can stroke your ego.

Anyway, about MS wanting control: Why shouldn't they want this? The Windows Everywhere concept is sort of neat IMO. If they could integrate all those things djcl.ear speak of (Skype, Kinect, whatever) to a coherent user experience across platforms it would be very nice. If it works, and they make it simple obviously and more or less seamless.

What is sort of amazing is that all they have to do is slap an opt-in start meny on Windows 8 and pretty much every single being on the planet will be pleased. More or less. People will still dislike them because [insert whatever ideological mumbo jumbo you happen to follow], but whatever.
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#21
Mussels
Moderprator
by: Frick
What are those figures exactly? The only ones i've seen where the ones that came about three months after release and they looked fine.

Also, why the fruck do you bump your own angled stories? I know you have a huge ego, but this is retarded.
because it was sold for the low low price of $15, of course the sales figures are skewed. the dropped the price and had heaps of discounted sales to make the numbers look decent.
Posted on Reply
#22
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
Windows 8 sucks plain and simple they took something that was working well and ruined. The Metro interface is the most assinine thing I have ever seen enter the PC workplace. It doesn't work for a none touchscreen. I have people I work with try and argue its great and most of them are lucky to know how to use a mouse. So maybe for simple minded Ipod generation people it is great they don't have to think. Microsoft hit the nail on the head if they wanted to make an OS for those geniouses.

End point I will take a copy of Windows 7 any day of the week and have had to reinstall it on about a dozen people I am deployed with that despise Windows 8.
Posted on Reply
#23
TRWOV
by: Mussels
because it was sold for the low low price of $15, of course the sales figures are skewed. the dropped the price and had heaps of discounted sales to make the numbers look decent.
Didn't remember that. Now the 40% increase in revenue looks even more amazing.
Posted on Reply
#24
Mussels
Moderprator
by: TRWOV
Didn't remember that. Now the 40% increase in revenue looks even more amazing.
because they're selling tablets, phones, and OS's. they can skew it in a number of ways.
Posted on Reply
#25
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
by: Frick
I still think it was massively stupid to bump an old thread just so you can stroke your ego.
So, my huge ego has once again crushed your tiny one? That's hardly surprising, is it? :laugh:

by: Mussels
because it was sold for the low low price of $15, of course the sales figures are skewed. the dropped the price and had heaps of discounted sales to make the numbers look decent.
Exactly. Thankyou. :)

Also, every tech pundit out there is reporting how sales have fallen off a cliff, it's doing even worse than Vista, yet our little frick is oblivious to all this (he admitted this just now in public, no less!) and thinks whining at me yet again is the way to go, lol.

Here's an excellent example of what I'm talking about : Windows 8 pushes PC sales off a cliff
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