Friday, January 27th 2012
NVIDIA Engaged in PsyOps Against HD 7970: Chinese Forum
A lot has been said about NVIDIA's upcoming product with which it will compete against AMD's Radeon HD 7900 series, except of course, pictures, benchmarks, and so on. Chinese tech forum ChipHell accused NVIDIA of deploying shills across forums to shape public opinion about the already-launched HD 7900 series, towards waiting for NVIDIA's competitive product, these include blind talk about imaginary performance superiority, killer price, etc.
Chinese forums have recognized patterns in this spurt of anti-AMD and pro-HD 7970 imaginary-competitor product posts and banned scores of user accounts engaged in this activity. There's a very potent reason why ChipHell's observations shouldn't be met with cynicism, or made light of. In China, competing factions in the ever-ruling Communist party have been known to use what is known as "the 50 cent army", where for a pittance, scores of internet forum posters can be engaged to perform coordinated PsyOps, to shape public opinion, and maintain public support. It is only natural, then, that competing companies in the extremely competitive Chinese domestic market resort to similar tactics, including those distributing NVIDIA GeForce graphics cards, or, as Chip Hell alleges, NVIDIA itself.
Source:
HardOCP
Chinese forums have recognized patterns in this spurt of anti-AMD and pro-HD 7970 imaginary-competitor product posts and banned scores of user accounts engaged in this activity. There's a very potent reason why ChipHell's observations shouldn't be met with cynicism, or made light of. In China, competing factions in the ever-ruling Communist party have been known to use what is known as "the 50 cent army", where for a pittance, scores of internet forum posters can be engaged to perform coordinated PsyOps, to shape public opinion, and maintain public support. It is only natural, then, that competing companies in the extremely competitive Chinese domestic market resort to similar tactics, including those distributing NVIDIA GeForce graphics cards, or, as Chip Hell alleges, NVIDIA itself.
112 Comments on NVIDIA Engaged in PsyOps Against HD 7970: Chinese Forum
Ca ca is well u know....and Dave is in the middle of it
Dont mean any disrespect or anything....just always wondered
My own crystal ball says so, based on Fermi vs GCN, and considering the posibility that Nvidia improved on what Fermi was a "failure", instead of just simply assuming Kepler will be even worse.
I stand by my point anyway that it wouldn't be the first time that Nvidia does something like that. They did it with the 8800 GT and it worked wonders for them and they did it with GTX460 and it worked very well too. Both were arguably bigger chips than GK104 will (or could) be, and unlike now (potentially) also much bigger than AMD counterparts, so the profit margin is potentially much bigger this time around. They will also have the high-end chip to enjoy the great high-end margins, while forcing AMD to very low margins, by fighting their high-end with their mid-range/performance chip, that is potentially smaller and maybe 256 bits. Time will tell of course, but one thing is 100% sure, the concept that Nvidia cannot release a better value card is simply wrong. They they did it plenty of times before and they could do it now. In fact, in 5 years Nvidia never had a better oportunity than now. AMD finally entering the GPGPU scene after 5 years of Nvidia doing so could only have this consequence. I don't know if this advantage will materialize or not, but common sense says that it will.
That's bullshit.
You won't find any Intel literature claiming any such thing (although I'm open to being proven wrong). As far as I'm aware this is Intel's comparison from the Ivy Bridge roadmap (with iGP performance percentage significantly higher...but then if you're starting from such a low baseline numbers...)
Yes, Dave in the middle of some caca.
CA = Canada though. There is a story behind that, of course, but you'll ahve to pop into the TPU BF3 Teamspeak to get that one outta me ;):roll:So, of course, I've been really busy the past couple of weeks. So to come to the forum and fimd this topic is surprising..I'm kinda outta the loop right now.
Anyway, my first thought was exactly what you just posted. AMD spins some stuff about BD, and everyone forgot?
I kinda see it as part of my job here @ TPU to dispell any rumours or such, by providing reviews that show the truth, with results that anyone can duplicate. I'm lucky in having the oppotunity to investigate these things myself in this way, but hte one thing I have learned in the past year is that this is marketing, and marketing may start off based on projected targets, and those targets get missed. BD, for example. While it was poorly executed, in my opinion, the marketing staff @ AMD had some fantastic ideas...just didn't execute them well.
If I was Nvidia, I'd want to hop on that, and push AMD's buttons, so to speak, reminding potential customers that AMD has in the recent past, failed to deliver.
So now, I see we ahve a thread here about how people feel about AMD delivery of the 7970, and similar topics on other forums...wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was all done at Nvidia's behest, and I find no fault in them doing so, either. It's marketing, and anything you can do when providing marketing to spin stuff to your favor is gonna happen.
Whenever there was a negative news article about Microsoft, say the latest virus that was causing havoc, the first comments in the comment section were Apple guys saying how good Apple products are and that people should buy a Mac.
Apple are the masters of stealth advertising
512 CUDA part will be clocked beyond 900MHz
1024 CUDA part will be around 500-700MHz
Both will kill the 7970, I has done the maths
For instance:
nVIDIA's mid-range chip has been around the same performance/clock of AMD's high-end since G92. Given architectural differences, the main discernible difference in performance can be boiled down to clockspeed and market placement. There was never going to be a 2GB 880mhz SKU for GF114 because it would have been over the mid-range 225w and hurt sales of GF110. I'm sure there is math thrown into the mix figuring in yields with that high of a clock on that size chip and that played a role in their chip stack decisions. Perhaps that is why GF114 was abundant and 6970 not-so-much.
AMD generally clocks their parts very high compared to nvidia on a given process which allows this overlap to occur. On the 7970 SKU they were clearly conservative given it's high-end market placement yet small die size/minimalist design and that is SUPER FREAKING KEY TO THIS CONVERSATION. Look at power consumption in W1z's review and where it lands compared to nVIDIA's last gen (or even 6970). Between a 560ti and (6970/)570. That is telling, if not foreboding. Tahiti is a good chip; The 7970 would be a great high-end SKU if clocked higher on the core. As it sits it is meddling between where the mid-range and high-end should be, yet is built for enthusiasts. There's overclocking, but that is not how reviews compare products...they use stock skus.
Look at performance of 7970 at 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 versus a slew of other cards...or the leaked 7950 results. At those resolutions 7970 is not the most efficient, it is clearly aimed higher-up the foodchain...this is backed up by the 384-bit bus and 3GB of memory that do squat at 1920. 7950 is fairly efficient at 1920, but a little under-powered...yet is still built with above 1920 in mind (384-bit, 3gb)...WTF?
I simply ask myself:
Is it feasible nvidia will create a chip similar in size to Tahiti for the mid-range?
Yes.
Is it feasible it will be more efficient at 1920?
Yes, if between 7950-7970 architecturally. This makes sense as all signs point to nvidia releasing another chip (or even sku using the same chip) for higher resolutions.
Will a 256-bit bus/2gb hurt them in this market?
No, unless the mem clockspeed is super low in proportion to the core.
Is it likely slower at stock than 7970 and perhaps 7950?
Probably; if clockspeeds are low for one of the myriad of reasons (keep the price/power down, nvidia's memory controller still sucks and/or they use slower/low-power gddr5, it corresponds with where they want it placed in their own product stack or versus the competition etc). The point is that there is room for a better design than Tahiti aimed at the largest possible market. That, and there is always overclocking.
I personally don't write about these things to root for either camp, even if my heart as a geek lies with ATi. I just find it all interesting to try to figure out, and maybe some of my ramblings help someone else learn something or make a better decision for their needs. I think a lot of times people like me come across like we're making zealous assumptions to further a fanboy agenda (and some are, or just being hyperbolic) when in reality we're just like anyone else interested in this stuff, just a bit more long-winded or in some cases lacking the ability to communicate rationally. I think this may be the case at CHH...but who knows.
It can be anywhere in 950MHz(200W TDP) to 1150MHz(250W TDP)
- 512 -> 950-1150MHz
- 768 -> 750-900MHz
- 1024 -> 550-700MHz
200W -> 250W on eachIt will 7970 is a minor improvement on Fermi...so little Kepler will just roll right over it like a steamrollerGet us some leaked benchmarks from a reputable source and we'll start to take you seriously. Yeah, this I'd really like to see.
All you need to know
You make it sound like every architecture known to mankind is some magical unknown unfathomable device and I can tell you there isn’t anything fundamentally “magic” about processor design
That ALUs x Ops x Clockrate thing is BS. The efficiencies of the design make a huge difference. That's why it takes so much money, time and effort to bring a new design to market.
People are referencing Bulldozer as a whole and Bulldozer as a whole is rather very competitive
This place cracks me up.
Do this and myself and the rest of this forum might stop thinking that you're simply a troll.
btw, I haven't seen those nice leaked benchmarks I challenged you on. ;) Come on, let's see them. :laugh: