Friday, November 23rd 2012

TSMC Looking to Build Fabs in the US

Global Foundries could soon howdy-neighbor TSMC in upstate New York, with the Taiwanese semiconductor giant looking to set up a fab there. According to an X-bit Labs report, TSMC began groundwork on its US venture by consulting with Deloitte, to look for viable sites in Rensselaer, Saratoga and Oneida counties, that have abundant water, power, and gas to operate 3.2 million square feet buildings with 1,000 employees, 40 percent of which are college-graduated engineers.

Deloitte also took a look around Luther Forest Technology Campus, where Global Foundries' Fab 8 is located. A little earlier this week, Bill Owens, a Congressman from upstate New York flew to Taiwan, to meet with TSMC CFO Lora Ho to pitch upstate a little more. TSMC is a principal foundry partner of companies such as Qualcomm, NVIDIA, and AMD.

Source: X-bit Labs
Add your own comment

28 Comments on TSMC Looking to Build Fabs in the US

#1
SaltyFish
So... does this mean we're going to be paying European prices for mainland Chinese quality?

Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?
Posted on Reply
#2
Protagonist
by: SaltyFish
So... does this mean we're going to be paying European prices for mainland Chinese quality?

Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?
I was thinking maybe with more fabs overall prices will go down more in the line of we could get a flagship single gpu for $250. Just a thought i know this kind of prices are far from real.
Posted on Reply
#3
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Why is New York state so special? There's so many other states that are far more business friendly than New York. New York actually might have among the highest tax rates of all US states. This confounds the mind.

Regardless, I'm not going to complain about high tech manufacturing jobs anywhere in the USA.
Posted on Reply
#4
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: SaltyFish
Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?
Apparently, and one way to fix it is manufacturing locally.
Posted on Reply
#5
TheLostSwede
by: SaltyFish
So... does this mean we're going to be paying European prices for mainland Chinese quality?

Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?
What does this have to do with China? Taiwan is NOT China, so no you won't be getting mainland Chinese quality...
Posted on Reply
#6
RejZoR
This is the point where asian countries will start taking over. In the past everything was done in asia, these days, asians are starting to build factories in US and EU. Meaning we might become cheaper for them here than by building stuff in their own countries... a thing to rethink a bit...
Posted on Reply
#7
repman244
by: SaltyFish
So... does this mean we're going to be paying European prices for mainland Chinese quality?

Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?
Errr fabs for chips aren't exactly like those plastic toys factories...if you cheap out you won't get anything out of it.
In industry like that it's not really important where is the factory, you will need good engineers in any of them.
Posted on Reply
#8
Sasqui
by: FordGT90Concept
Why is New York state so special? There's so many other states that are far more business friendly than New York. New York actually might have among the highest tax rates of all US states. This confounds the mind.
You can be sure they got some sweet tax deals to come into the state. And yea, it is cool to see this happening. However, on another note, perhaps it's a "mole" factory, here to use and "borrow" other technology that may be reserved for US soil.
Posted on Reply
#9
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: SaltyFish
Has the USD gotten so bad that TSMC is now outsourcing to the USA?
Consider for a moment that TSMC wouldn't need to pay import/export taxes for US consumers if they do some manufacturing here. As an example, it's also becoming less and less cost effective to out-source to China, even more so with everything going on over there. The US also has a lot of people out of work and one of the most skilled work forces (not to say that we don't have a lot of unskilled people in the workforce or that we're a leader) but I can honestly think of a lot worse places to setup a factory.
Posted on Reply
#10
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
Maybe they will put it right next door to the GlobalFoundries fab plant in Malta, NY.
Posted on Reply
#11
TheLostSwede
Seriously people, Taiwan is not China. TSMC is a Taiwanese company, not Chinese.
They only manufacture in Taiwan, not China.
It's like calling American's Mexican or Canadian, which I'm sure wouldn't go down very well...
Posted on Reply
#12
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: TheLostSwede
Seriously people, Taiwan is not China. TSMC is a Taiwanese company, not Chinese.
They only manufacture in Taiwan, not China.
It's like calling American's Mexican or Canadian, which I'm sure wouldn't go down very well...
I was using China as an example. :shadedshu
China isn't the only country where it isn't as economical as it used to be to out-source to various countries.


by: Aquinus
As an example, it's also becoming less and less cost effective to out-source to China, even more so with everything going on over there.
Posted on Reply
#13
cadaveca
My name is Dave
TSMC should be building local to me. Just sayin. :p
Posted on Reply
#14
Th3pwn3r
by: btarunr
40 percent of which are college-graduated engineers.
College graduated from where?

by: st.bone
I was thinking maybe with more fabs overall prices will go down more in the line of we could get a flagship single gpu for $250. Just a thought i know this kind of prices are far from real.
You've gotta be joking. It's more likely they'd raise prices to cover costs from this move. They'll save more and charge more I think.


by: FordGT90Concept
Why is New York state so special? There's so many other states that are far more business friendly than New York. New York actually might have among the highest tax rates of all US states. This confounds the mind.

Regardless, I'm not going to complain about high tech manufacturing jobs anywhere in the USA.
I believe Illinois has the highest taxes of the states, I live here in Chicago and it's ridiculous. You're also assuming the jobs are going to Americans. Be ready for a lot more immigrants in the states.



by: RejZoR
This is the point where asian countries will start taking over. In the past everything was done in asia, these days, asians are starting to build factories in US and EU. Meaning we might become cheaper for them here than by building stuff in their own countries... a thing to rethink a bit...
I see what you're saying and I agree. Eventually they'll be running all their factories here to supply the demands of the states, it makes lots of sense.

by: Sasqui
You can be sure they got some sweet tax deals to come into the state. And yea, it is cool to see this happening. However, on another note, perhaps it's a "mole" factory, here to use and "borrow" other technology that may be reserved for US soil.
The taxes are just flat out ridiculous nationwide so I doubt the tax breaks are their end game here. I'm sure they have some other incentive.

by: Aquinus
Consider for a moment that TSMC wouldn't need to pay import/export taxes for US consumers if they do some manufacturing here. As an example, it's also becoming less and less cost effective to out-source to China, even more so with everything going on over there. The US also has a lot of people out of work and one of the most skilled work forces (not to say that we don't have a lot of unskilled people in the workforce or that we're a leader) but I can honestly think of a lot worse places to setup a factory.
I agree but who knows how many Americans they'll even employ.

by: TheLostSwede
Seriously people, Taiwan is not China. TSMC is a Taiwanese company, not Chinese.
They only manufacture in Taiwan, not China.
It's like calling American's Mexican or Canadian, which I'm sure wouldn't go down very well...
Mexicans would love to be called American :) most Mexicans wouldn't care at all. But whatever, people need to get over it.
Posted on Reply
#15
erixx
maybe manufacturing has turned as easy as let's say "printing" and then producing close to the buyers makes sense...

I don't believe labor, tax and legislation has gotten in the First World (US/EU) so easy for corps that it makes a difference, but times are a-changing... stone age is closer than we think.

BTW: America is one thing, and 'Merica and Da States another, lol. Time will proof the bad choice of a countries name. hehehehehe, just accept it.
Posted on Reply
#16
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: thelostswede
seriously people, taiwan is not china. Tsmc is a taiwanese company, not chinese.
They only manufacture in taiwan, not china.
It's like calling american's mexican or canadian, which i'm sure wouldn't go down very well...
Taiwan R.O.C.

Taiwanese don't mind being called Chinese, hell Singaporeans don't.
Posted on Reply
#17
NC37
Guys forget one of the reasons China became so popular. The percentage and relatively close location to rare earths. Couple that with slave labor and you got a hit. I really don't see how TSMC is gonna make a profit on this. Yeah they are Taiwan, not China, but I'm sure Taiwan is still cheaper than US. Sure import and export will be negated but US labor is much higher. Unless the US is raising fees on those imports.

So from US, to Japan, to Taiwan, to China and now companies are coming...back to US? Don't get me wrong, I'd be glad to see a Made in USA label again. But for a time that label meant crap. Atari Jaguar was berated for that label. Made in USA was taboo. Quality was terrible and if you wanted quality you went to Japan. Made in USA didn't start standing for quality until suddenly the old US dinosaur businesses started folding. Jobs getting lost so oh no, we gotta support them! But still, its all hype. Have any of you even sat in a Ford from the last few years? Zomg, they are so flimsy, so much plastic it makes the cheapest of the cheap Japan/Korea car look good.

But now Lenovo brings a facility here, then TSMC is now too. Something is up. Companies don't just go investing heavy sums of money in projects like this if they don't expect to come out ahead. Goodwill to the nation and jobs is bs...there is no way they'd be taking a loss just on a PR stunt.
Posted on Reply
#18
HossHuge
by: NC37

But now Lenovo brings a facility here, then TSMC is now too. Something is up. Companies don't just go investing heavy sums of money in projects like this if they don't expect to come out ahead. Goodwill to the nation and jobs is bs...there is no way they'd be taking a loss just on a PR stunt.
Maybe the cost of fuel has gone up enough to make it profitable?
Posted on Reply
#19
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: NC37
Sure import and export will be negated but US labor is much higher.
The US's GDP to hours worked ratio is one of the best (or at least used to be, I don't know what it is now,) in the world short of Norway and Luxembourg. US workers tend to be good at adapting to different situations, so a single worker in the US might do something that would have taken a Chinese factory 3 people to do. So yeah, US workers cost more, but how many fewer US workers do you need to be just as productive as their Taiwanese counterparts?
Posted on Reply
#20
HossHuge
by: Aquinus
The US's GDP to hours worked ratio is one of the best (or at least used to be, I don't know what it is now,) in the world short of Norway and Luxembourg. US workers tend to be good at adapting to different situations, so a single worker in the US might do something that would have taken a Chinese factory 3 people to do. So yeah, US workers cost more, but how many fewer US workers do you need to be just as productive as their Taiwanese counterparts?
Most engineers here make around $1100 to $1500 U.S. a month.
Posted on Reply
#21
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: HossHuge
Most engineers here make around $1100 to $1500 U.S. a month.
I'm a developer and systems admin, I work in education, and I even make more than that, but the real question is how does that investment scale? Not how much will it cost. We won't know that until TSMC sets up the new Fab to tell if it helps or harms them. I have a feeling that TSMC knows something that we do not.
Posted on Reply
#22
SetsunaFZero
by: HossHuge
Most engineers here make around $1100 to $1500 U.S. a month.
lul what are u serious :eek: didn't know America was that cheap. Honestly even I as an Technician got a better pay.
engineers in Austria are paid about 2500-5000€ in dollars $3200-$6400
Posted on Reply
#23
tacosRcool
why can't US companies keep their operations in the US? Their excuses do not have any merit anymore since these companies are doing the opposite
Posted on Reply
#24
HossHuge
by: SetsunaFZero
lul what are u serious :eek: didn't know America was that cheap. Honestly even I as an Technician got a better pay.
engineers in Austria are paid about 2500-5000€ in dollars $3200-$6400


I've taught at Delta, Benq, Unimicron, FSP, and now APD (Asian Power Devices) and at each place that's roughly what they make. They also get performance bonuses for Chinese New Year and some other holidays.

by: tacosRcool
why can't US companies keep their operations in the US? Their excuses do not have any merit anymore since these companies are doing the opposite
From what I understand, the companies were still making money before they pulled out of the U.S. They just wanted to maximize profits so they went elsewhere.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment