Monday, November 26th 2012

Is Haswell the Last Interchangeable Intel Client Processor?

The processor-motherboard combination as PC enthusiasts know it could end, with Intel LGA1150 processors under the "Haswell" micro-architecture, likely to becoming the last client processors to ship in the retail channel (processor-in-box). Future Intel client processors, codenamed "Broadwell" could ship only in BGA (ball-grid array) packages, with existing motherboard vendors selling their products with processors permanently soldered onto them. The information comes from Japanese PC Watch, which cites sources in the PC industry.

With a compacted socket-processor launch cycle that spans nearly 2 years under the company's "tick-tock" product strategy, the scope for processor updates in the client computing industry might be lower than what it was in the LGA775 days. Perhaps statistics at Intel don't show a sizable proportion of people upgrading processors on existing motherboards, or upgrading motherboards while retaining the processor, rather buying a combination of the two, not to mention the fact that pre-built PCs outsell DIY assembled ones in major markets. With the processor being "tied" to the motherboard, Intel gets room to compact the platform further, combining processor and core logic completely into a single package. It's likely that Intel could still leave processor interchangeability to its HEDT (high-end desktop) platform, which sees processors start at $300, and motherboards at $200.Source: X-bit Labs
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89 Comments on Is Haswell the Last Interchangeable Intel Client Processor?

#1
ChristTheGreat
But with all t his, that would mean: You need to buy the CPU with mobo options, and you won't get more..

If I want a i3 but with all the features nice of an high end board, I can.. like if buying an i3 would mean buying an H77 m-ATX with no features..

Except if all bords comes with all the same features and lower price ok, but instead this is not cool:

Intel will sell to Asus, gigabyte and other, and they will sell to resellers. Before we had Intel then resellers...

Asus will want to make a small profit on CPU for sure...
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#2
yogurt_21
tbh it's been a long time since I've upgraded the cpu/mobo seperately. By the time I've got the cash for an upgrade, a new/better/flashier/cheaper option is available in a new socket.

If they do away with socket upgrades they'll need to make it cheaper than it would have cost for individual parts though. I'm not paying 800$ for a combo that should cost 500.
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#3
Protagonist
by: STCNE
How many of us frequently swap out CPUs on our boards?
I do, If i can remember just but to mention few scenarios.

1. Intel Desktop Board D945GCCR (Processors: Pentium Dual 1.6GHz & 1.8GHz transitioned with it to the next board)

2. Intel Desktop Board D945GCNL (Processors: Pentium Dual 1.8GHz & 2.0GHz transitioned with it to the next board)

3. Intel Desktop Board DG33BU (Processors: Pentium Dual 2.0GHz & 2.2GHz transitioned with it to the next board)

4. Intel Desktop Board DG35EC (Processors: Pentium Dual 2.2GHz & 2.5GHz)

5. Intel Desktop Board DG43GT (Processor: Core 2 Duo 2.93GHz)

6. Intel Desktop Board DH55HC (Processors: Core i3-530 2.93GHz & i5-760 2.8GHz)

7. Currently on Intel Desktop Board DZ68BC (Processors: Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz & i7-3770 3.4GHz)

So clearly it will have a negative Impact on me, so to speak.

by: Binge
I would have thought this go the other way around... socket SoC CPUs with onboard ram, gpu, cpu all integrated and the motherboards would get smaller and smaller. Just drop in another CPU and there's your upgrade/replacement etc etc.
I thought so too, this could be nice if it ever happens I hope it will happen, I prefer this path more than what could happen. :toast:
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#4
The Von Matrices
This is not much of a surprise to me since Haswell GT3 won't be available in a socketed form anyway. I don't have a problem with not being able to swap a CPU once I acquire a motherboard, but I do have a problem with not having the choice to select a board and processsor independently when I am replacing a system.

I recently built a system for a friend who mostly does web surfing with his PC but is an avid photographer. He has a few external hard drives full of pictures, so he wanted a cheap system with integrated USB 3.0. I ordered him a Pentium G2120 system with a H77 motherboard. This is a low end CPU with a mid range chipset. This combination wouldn't exist with a processor soldered onto a motherboard. If socketed CPUs were the case in this generation and I wanted a G2120, I probably would have to settle for the inadequate H61 chipset and lots of add-in cards to get the features needed. Eliminating choice is never a good thing.
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#5
Patriot
by: Morgoth
im sticking with xeons :)
I second that ...won't need to replace my E5-2680 for a long time anyways. :toast:
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#6
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
BTW, all of my computers are pretty much sctap so this would affect me negatively. But i dont think its far fetched.
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#7
radrok
by: Morgoth
im sticking with xeons :)
I'd gladly agree if Intel gives us back bclk overclocking on Xeons :|
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#8
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
sites like TPU will be pointless in the next decade. i guess that's why w1z created nextpowerup.
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#9
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
by: Easy Rhino
sites like TPU will be pointless in the next decade. i guess that's why w1z created nextpowerup.
You shut your dirty mouth. :laugh: AMD will still be using sockets!
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#10
St.Alia-Of-The-Knife
by: cdawall
You shut your dirty mouth. :laugh: AMD will still be using sockets!
And the ghost of AMD rises from the grave...
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#11
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
by: St.Alia-Of-The-Knife
And the ghost of AMD rises from the grave...
Just saying two major manufacturers exist and only one is screwing over the mainstream.
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#12
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
by: cdawall
You shut your dirty mouth. :laugh: AMD will still be using sockets!
like im going to use amd :rolleyes:
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#13
ViperXTR
it will be like a video card now, GPU soldered to the board, next DDR5 will be soldered into the board as well D:
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#14
Protagonist
by: Easy Rhino
sites like TPU will be pointless in the next decade. i guess that's why w1z created nextpowerup.
How do I register in nextpowerup.com?
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#15
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
by: Easy Rhino
like im going to use amd :rolleyes:
Should probably start looking into tablets then.
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#16
PopcornMachine
I think will still be the ability to build systems. Maybe not with the same flexibility as before, but at least picking the graphics, storage, and case.

I currently don't see anything to complete replace the desktop, and think word of it's demise is greatly exaggerated. :D

Forgot to add that with monitors finally starting to increase in resolution, I don't see little phones an pads driving those. Some day maybe, but not any time soon.
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#17
james888
I wonder what amd's response to this.
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#18
HumanSmoke
by: cdawall
Should probably start looking into tablets then.
Wouldn't it just be easier to skip Broadwell (if it's BGA) and move straight to Skymont (which will be socketed afaia) when it debuts.
I was under the impression that desktop Broadwell was going to be a one year deal. And as far as I know, Broadwell-EX will still utilize the Brickland platform (Ivy Bridge-EX/Haswell-EX)- i.e. socketed.
EDIT:
VR-Zone story concerning Grantley and Brickland platforms
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#19
unholythree
Oddly enough for me it's my processors that get transplanted to new mobo's not the other way around. My old 775's now run entry level mobo's with on-board video for my HTPC and NAS while the old enthusiast mobo's are long gone.

I like collecting my old processors, I figured one day I would polish them all up and put them in a shadow box or something.
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#20
PGHammer
The CPU Isn't The Problem!

by: HR_The_Butcher
What do you mean, "in the LGA775 days"?

I'm still rocking a Q9550.

And when it becomes obsolete, I'll just declare myself a hipster and keep on using it. 775 FTW.
The issue with LGA775 (or anything newer) isn't the CPU itself, but the improvements since in the rest of the periphery.

Do you *really* need anything newer than LGA775 to run even Windows 8? Surprisingly, the answer is an absolute *no*, as there is a grand total of *one* feature in Windows 8 (Hyper-V) that absolutely positively is not supported in LGA775. (The rather amusing part is that merely by changing to a *server* version of Windows (specifically, Windows Server 2008 or later, including Server 2008R2 or 2012), you CAN run Hyper-V on LGA775 - my Q6600 dual-boots Windows 8 Pro x64 and Server 2012; while Windows 8 can't run Hyper-V clients, Server 2012 does.) You can add (or even boot from) an SSD with LGA775-based hardware, even hardware with chipsets such as the stumblebum that is the corporate-stable/consumer-stable G41. That said, LGA775/G41 has two rather nasty issues -

1. RAM capacity - G41 supports just two DIMM slots; they can be either DDR2 or DDR3, but the maximum is just two. Adding insult to injury, G41's DDR3 DIMM capacity remains firewalled at 4GB per DIMM - it can't swallow the 8GB DIMMs that are now available at decent prices.

2. Bottlenecking elsewhere - All too often, resolving gaming bottlenecks on an LGA775-based system requires leaving LGA775, even, if not especially, if the bottleneck is outside the CPU, and it almost always is.
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#21
xorbe
When CPUs come soldered on, then they are going to rape and pillage your wallet for the best CPU and the most popular motherboards. (Think like "$200" $40 memory upgrades for sealed Apple products.)
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#22
Morgoth
Intel advertisement
want some extra cpu power? dont like switching over to a faster cpuboard? get your self a Intel xeon co processor faster performance no need for new cpuboard

lol?
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#23
Mussels
Moderprator
this makes sense for nettops and the mobile markets, but is bad news for desktop.
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#24
TRWOV
Although I don't see this being a real issue for 90% of the people I think it would be a logistic nightmare for manufacturers. Intel has about 60 different processor models in retail channels right now. How are manufacturers going to go about all that spread? Are they going to offer 50 versions of the same motherboard?

Before it comes to that I think that Intel should consolidate its CPU offerings. How many Celerons does the market really needs? There are like 12 Pentiums right now, each one with just a 100Mhz difference between them and some features disabled.

In that regard AMD is more focused. They have at most 2-3 CPUs per performance segment and that is very healthy for the consumer as he doesn't get lost in the myriad of offerings.

I'd say that intel needs to copy a page from AMD on this: ship all CPUs with unlocked multiplier, offer a low end and a high end (better binned) CPU for each performance segment and let the buyers thin the herd.





by: PGHammer
The issue with LGA775 (or anything newer) isn't the CPU itself, but the improvements since in the rest of the periphery.

Do you *really* need anything newer than LGA775 to run even Windows 8? Surprisingly, the answer is an absolute *no*, as there is a grand total of *one* feature in Windows 8 (Hyper-V) that absolutely positively is not supported in LGA775. (The rather amusing part is that merely by changing to a *server* version of Windows (specifically, Windows Server 2008 or later, including Server 2008R2 or 2012), you CAN run Hyper-V on LGA775 - my Q6600 dual-boots Windows 8 Pro x64 and Server 2012; while Windows 8 can't run Hyper-V clients, Server 2012 does.) You can add (or even boot from) an SSD with LGA775-based hardware, even hardware with chipsets such as the stumblebum that is the corporate-stable/consumer-stable G41.
I'm running W8 on a LGA775 865PE based board with DDR1 and AGP slot :toast: It even has HPET.
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#25
Melvis
If only consumers learned that when your computer becomes slow that they can in most cases just simply update the CPU and be done with it. Instead of thinking of buying a whole new system as most of the time its the Software or a lack of Memory that is slowing down a computer not the CPU its self, but if it was then a BIOS update, put in a new CPU and there good as gold, but most dont, sad realy.
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