Thursday, December 13th 2012

HD 7950 May Give Higher Framerates, but GTX 660 Ti Still Smoother: Report

The TechReport, which adds latency-based testing in its VGA reviews, concluded in a recent retrospective review taking into account recent driver advancements, that Radeon HD 7950, despite yielding higher frame-rates than GeForce GTX 660 Ti, has higher latencies (time it takes to beam generated frames onto the display), resulting in micro-stutter. In response to the comments-drama that ensued, its reviewer did a side-by-side recording of a scene from "TESV: Skyrim" as rendered by the two graphics cards, and slowed them down with high-speed recording, at 120 FPS, and 240 FPS. In slow-motion, micro-stuttering on the Radeon HD 7950 is more apparent than on the GeForce GTX 660 Ti.

Find the slow-motion captures after the break.



Source: The TechReport
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122 Comments on HD 7950 May Give Higher Framerates, but GTX 660 Ti Still Smoother: Report

#2
Novulux
Considering I already have a Radeon Card, I suppose Radeon Pro will have to suffice...
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#3
Deadlyraver
Its just drivers, so quit endorsing and accept the numbers!
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#4
entropy13
Remember also that they've addressed the "Windows 7 v. Windows 8" issue in a follow-up review too...
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#5
james888
by: entropy13
Remember also that they've addressed the "Windows 7 v. Windows 8" issue in a follow-up review too...
Here.
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#6
DaJMasta
Honestly, I don't see a dramatic difference in the amount of stutter between the two videos, and as someone who games at 60Hz, I'm never going to see most of what you can see here anyways.


It does sound like driver optimization to me more than anything else, but it could be less a case of "amd is faster but their drivers are worse" and more a case of "amd optimizes more for speed while nv optimizes more for less stutter" or something along those lines. Maybe there's even some hidden hitch in the CPU code for the drivers that is holding everything back.


Any particular reason why the AMD card drops to zero latency for the last few hundred frames of the chart, but the nV one doesn't?
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#7
BlackOmega
by: btarunr
its reviewer did a side-by-side recording of a scene from "TESV: Skyrim"
And therein lies the problem. There are known problems with Skyrim and ATi cards.

This is skewed towards Nvidia to make them look better.
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#8
Deadlyraver
by: BlackOmega
And therein lies the problem. There are known problems with Skyrim and ATi cards.

This is skewed towards Nvidia to make them look better.
Again, endorsement.
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#9
SIGSEGV
omg, i'm lil disappointed with TPU, why on earth you should post something like this. for me it's embarrassing
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#10
MxPhenom 216
Corsair Fanboy
by: BlackOmega
And therein lies the problem. There are known problems with Skyrim and ATi cards.

This is skewed towards Nvidia to make them look better.
With Nvidia Skyrim stutters with it too. Atleast from what I can tell. And My eyes catch any degree of stutter and hickups.
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#11
Protagonist
i read this yesterday, and i was like mmm...... now hows about that. And again i was like what does this have to do with anything.... maybe, maybe not something to worry about. :ohwell: and now i see it in TPU,... this method might be on to something,... what it is might not seat well with consumers at the long run.
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#12
entropy13
by: BlackOmega
And therein lies the problem. There are known problems with Skyrim and ATi cards.

This is skewed towards Nvidia to make them look better.
That probably explains why Tech Report had an HD 7770 giveaway three weeks ago, an HD 7870 giveaway two weeks ago, and an HD 7950 giveaway last week. :rolleyes:

And since you're quite insistent that there is an Nvidia bias, why not read this page about Sleeping Dogs, an "AMD Gaming Evolved" title?


AMD IS BETTER!!! NVIDIA SUCKS!!!


Not much difference, it's just a tie...


Oh...THAT'S NVIDIA'S FAULT!!!

by: SIGSEGV
omg, i'm lil disappointed with TPU, why on earth you should post something like this. for me it's embarrassing
Video card reviews should just focus on framerates? Testing for latency is embarrassing?
Posted on Reply
#13
SIGSEGV
by: entropy13

:snip:
AMD IS BETTER!!! NVIDIA SUCKS!!!
meh..

by: entropy13

Video card reviews should just focus on framerates? Testing for latency is embarrassing?
i believe you have no experience playing any games even skyrim with amd radeon HD7900 series. This news is kinda fishy for me.
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#14
crazyeyesreaper
Chief Broken Rig
would be more interesting to see how a stock non Boost 7950 handles the tests or a 7970 and 7970 GHz edition im willing to bet the clock speed changes which are more frequent on the 7950 boost compared to the 7970GHz edition cause latency issues.

from what i remember a 7950 clocked up is faster than a 7950 boost that hits the same clocks speeds do to 0 clock speed fluctuation.

There is more going on in the background that isnt being expanded upon and tested. Essentially it seems TR took the 1 AMD gpu thats had the roughest time out of all AMD products then used a model that brings in the boost variable and its potential problems that represents.
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#15
boulard83
HardOCP are speeking about this "smoothness" from Nvidia setup for years now. Mostly when using multiGPU setup, multi monitor being even worse.

From Hardocp testing, you seem to need more FPS to have the same "smoothness feeling" while gaming VS Nvidia. They spoke about it lots of time on lots of reviews.
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#16
marsey99
by: btarunr
The TechReport, which adds latency-based testing in its VGA reviews, concluded in a recent retrospective review taking into account recent driver advancements, that Radeon HD 7950, despite yielding higher frame-rates than GeForce GTX 660 Ti, has higher latencies (time it takes to beam generated frames onto the display), resulting in micro-stutter. In response to the comments-drama that ensued, its reviewer did a side-by-side recording of a scene from "TESV: Skyrim" as rendered by the two graphics cards, and slowed them down with high-speed recording, at 120 FPS, and 240 FPS. In slow-motion, micro-stuttering on the Radeon HD 7950 is more apparent than on the GeForce GTX 660 Ti.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/12-12-13/118a_thm.jpg

Find the slow-motion captures after the break. [---]





Source: The TechReport
they both stutter like fuck, whats the big deal?
Posted on Reply
#17
GC_PaNzerFIN
Fanboys refuse to believe anything no matter how well you try to run your tests.

I was telling about micro stuttering with SLi/CF years ago but people went mad at me and refused to believe it exists. Same thing with HD5 series broken AF. Etc. etc.
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#18
HumanSmoke
by: crazyeyesreaper
would be more interesting to see how a stock non Boost 7950 handles the tests or a 7970 and 7970 GHz edition im willing to bet the clock speed changes which are more frequent on the 7950 boost compared to the 7970GHz edition cause latency issues.
from what i remember a 7950 clocked up is faster than a 7950 boost that hits the same clocks speeds do to 0 clock speed fluctuation.
Doesn't make a helluva lot of difference imo. TR are only claiming the discrepancy regarding the 7950 Boost, they aren't extrapolating the results and saying it affects all models.
Having said that, given the standing that Scott has in the community, I'd say that someone will test the 7970, 7970GE etc. It wouldn't surprise me if AMD were optimizing for outright speed at all- that is the primary metric used in the majority of reviews, and a major bullet point in PR slides.
by: crazyeyesreaper
Essentially it seems TR took the 1 AMD gpu thats had the roughest time out of all AMD products then used a model that brings in the boost variable and its potential problems that represents.
AMD had no problem reaping the rewards of reviews using the all new 7950 Boost...are you saying that TR should gloss over any potential problem because the bulk of the other models are possibly OK ? HardOCP and Tom's Hardware amongst others are also reporting various issues in single/multi card configs- at what point do you say its worth reporting?
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#19
the54thvoid
Ooh another hate fest kicking up.

I get micro stutter on Fry Cry 3 with my crossfire 7970 set up, very noticeable when it should be butter smooth. But my friend with a GTX 680 also has graphical issues.

Micro stutter itself is a bit subjective. I've played games with fare worse with micro-stutter on AMD cards (according to Hard OCP) but haven't noticed any effect unlike FC 3 where it is considerably more apparent.

Meh, choose your card and see how you like it. Dishonored played beautifully on my cards. Such an awesomely well planned and coded game.
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#20
Wile E
Power User
I wonder if it's driver or hardware related?

I moved away from ATI after the issues I had with my 4870X2. I'd really like to see them fix these small issues. Then I'd consider buying them again.
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#22
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
This is why we should all have low end rigs. When you think 40FPS is awesome you don't notice these things. :laugh:

But I thought all of those videos looked weird. Especially the 240FPS ones looked plain wrong. At 120FPS Nvidia looked smoother, but still flaky.
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#23
entropy13
by: SIGSEGV
i believe you have no experience playing any games even skyrim with amd radeon HD7900 series. This news is kinda fishy for me.
A high-speed camera is biased, unlike a human being like you? :confused:


They should have done the gameplay video comparison with Sleeping Dogs and not Skyrim, so that there won't be any "BUT WE ALL KNOW THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH AMD IN THE GAME!!!" because right off the bat a big "AMD Gaming Evolved" logo will appear once you run the game. And if they still insist that Sleeping Dogs is "skewed towards Nvidia" then that also implies that "AMD Gaming Evolved" was pointless, unless they then say that United Front Games intentionally made AMD perform worse in their game...
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#24
the54thvoid
I actually just watched the videos and I'm thinking "God that is pretty bad!" I was looking at the one on the right - the 660. lol

Actually yeah, this is very subjective. The AMD card craps out as the video goes on and the foliage gets closer to the camera view but to me the 660 starts out with more noticeable jerkiness between frames.

Having watched this, I don't think it's micro stutter I've got on FC3. Something more buggy methinks.
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#25
GC_PaNzerFIN
by: AphexDreamer
Uh... Vsync anyone?
When do you people realize that, first, vsync doesn't completely remove micro stuttering and second it causes massive other problems. Especially with input lag related mouse delay.

It is like cutting your hand off when it hurts.
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