Monday, January 14th 2013

BClk-based Overclocking Returns with Haswell?

With Intel's 2011-launched Core "Sandy Bridge" processors, Intel CPU overclocking as we know it changed. No longer could you overclock the CPU by stepping up BClk (base clock), a frequency that processors use to time various components, including the effective clock speed, and in some cases, memory, and uncore. Sandy Bridge left consumers with only one effective way of overclocking, stepping up an unlocked BClk multiplier, a feature only available with a handful expensive models.

According to a Hardcoreware report, when Intel took up the "one BClk to rule them all" approach with Sandy Bridge, it may have overlooked the possibility of the integrated GPU waking other components up from lower power states to use the L3 cache, affecting the chip's overall energy efficiency, which carried on to successive Core "Ivy Bridge" silicon. "Haswell" may present Intel with an opportunity to split core and uncore from sharing the same base clock, and as such it could be possible to crank up CPU clock speeds using BClk, without destabilizing the uncore. The author admits this is speculation on his part, but quite likely.Source: Hardcoreware
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36 Comments on BClk-based Overclocking Returns with Haswell?

#1
RejZoR
Or if they'd stop sticking damn GPU's into every CPU... Some of us will NEVER need the integrated one and is just wasting the die space for no reason.
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#2
HammerON
The Watchful Moderator
I can agree with that ^^^ statement:)
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#3
johnspack
Why are they putting a gpu in an enthusiast level cpu? I just don't get that.
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#4
The Von Matrices
by: johnspack
Why are they putting a gpu in an enthusiast level cpu? I just don't get that.
Because it costs more to design and market a separate, low-volume chip with no iGPU than it does to ship fewer processor designs all with iGPUs (even if they go unused).

The OP also neglects to mention that the primary reason for integrating the clock generator was to save costs and PCB space. Thus, I wouldn't be hopeful that even if there were two clock generators that they would be able to operate much out of specification (i.e. overclock).
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#5
johnspack
Well, that sucks. My next upgrade will be sb-e. So I'm going to be stuck with an igpu that I don't want or need, and it will suck down the performance of my i7. Wow, big selling point! I may stay with my 1st gen i7 for quite a while....
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#6
The Von Matrices
by: johnspack
Well, that sucks. My next upgrade will be sb-e. So I'm going to be stuck with an igpu that I don't want or need, and it will suck down the performance of my i7. Wow, big selling point! I may stay with my 1st gen i7 for quite a while....
Well, the iGPU is completely power gated when it's not being used (like when a discrete graphics card is connected), so it's not sucking down power or reducing performance.

I personally find an iGPU to be a great value add-in because I have had many times where a discrete GPU failed and that made the system basically useless, but with an iGPU I can keep the system usable until I get a new GPU. I don't need to keep a video card in my closet just for that scenario and I can cash in on any spare graphics cards I may have.
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#7
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: johnspack
Why are they putting a gpu in an enthusiast level cpu? I just don't get that.
Because Haswell is a main-stream and entry level platform, not enthusiast.
by: johnspack
Well, that sucks. My next upgrade will be sb-e. So I'm going to be stuck with an igpu that I don't want or need, and it will suck down the performance of my i7. Wow, big selling point! I may stay with my 1st gen i7 for quite a while....
iGPU doesn't leak CPU performance, even more so when it isn't do anything and is power gated. Also SB-E doesn't have an iGPU and having an iGPU is nice to debug video cards though or in case your video card fails. That way without putting anything new in your rig, you will still have video.
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#8
johnspack
Good, I won't be bothering with Haswell for probably years. I just want sb-e. And thank god it doesn't have an iGPU. Now I know I want one for sure. I just have to wait about a year more before I can afford it. Gotta love being on a fixed income where I spend half of it just on rent, 1/4 of what's left on cable. Gives me about $300can a month for food, clothes, medicine, and computer parts. I spend typically 100- 200 on computer parts, so basically I starve most months. How's your dedication to computers?
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#9
The Von Matrices
by: johnspack
Good, I won't be bothering with Haswell for probably years. I just want sb-e. And thank god it doesn't have an iGPU. Now I know I want one for sure. I just have to wait about a year more before I can afford it. Gotta love being on a fixed income where I spend half of it just on rent, 1/4 of what's left on cable. Gives me about $300can a month for food, clothes, medicine, and computer parts. I spend typically 100- 200 on computer parts, so basically I starve most months. How's your dedication to computers?
Well, if you're waiting a year to buy, then Sandy bridge-E will be obsolete and be replaced by something else. Probably Ivy Bridge-E if it doesn't get cancelled before release.
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#10
Hellraiser1981
by: johnspack
Why are they putting a gpu in an enthusiast level cpu? I just don't get that.
You are so freakin' right. And a crappy GPU at that. They sell something no one wants, by default included with something everyone needs, at a price no one wants to pay.
Intel = more $$$
I guess it does make sense.
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#11
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: The Von Matrices
Well, if you're waiting a year to buy, then Sandy bridge-E will be obsolete and be replaced by something else.
I would call SB-E out-dated at that point, not obsolete because it is still perfectly capable which just makes it old, not useless.
Obsolete, adj.
1: no longer in use or no longer useful
source
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#12
The Von Matrices
by: Aquinus
I would call SB-E out-dated at that point, not obsolete because it is still perfectly capable which just makes it old, not useless.


source
You're probably right, I should have used a different term.

Also, have I never noticed this before or is it unique to this post that a lot of people do not bother to read the entire thread before posting things that have already been said? I thought that was what the "Thanks" was for - to show you agreed with another post.
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#13
johnspack
Of course sb-e will be obsolete by the time I can afford it. How do you think I could afford my 950 system? It'll be 2 years before I can afford ib-e at least. At 100-200 can a month, it takes a long time to build a system. At least I have 24gbs ram and can use huge disk caches....
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#14
The Von Matrices
by: johnspack
Of course sb-e will be obsolete by the time I can afford it. How do you think I could afford my 950 system? It'll be 2 years before I can afford ib-e at least. At 100-200 can a month, it takes a long time to build a system. At least I have 24gbs ram and can use huge disk caches....
That's what I do; I buy 1 generation old parts. I got my Xeon (used 1-year) for about a quarter of the retail price.
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#15
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
I'm pretty sure they will not abandon their K-concept.
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#16
Ferrum Master
For now I am still fit fith my last buss overclockable X58 platform, what can you get at bargain price on jewbay and it performs stellar in every freaking place still... paying $1K for 30% performance upgrade? No thanks.
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#17
erocker
This might be a good thing for budget OC'ers if this happens with lower end Haswell chips. As far as the iGPU goes, it's like getting a free cheap GPU with your CPU. If you don't need it, turn it off in the bios. It will just sit there as a dead piece of silicon on the substrate doing nothing and not playing a role in CPU performance whatsoever... But it's there if you need it.
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#18
HammerON
The Watchful Moderator
Good point!
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#19
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
by: erocker
This might be a good thing for budget OC'ers if this happens with lower end Haswell chips.
It would bring back the original point of overclocking, but i will not believe it until i see it.
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#20
iO
No way. Why should they? It would just hurt their profit.
Only if they create a super mega overclocking SKU for LN2 OCing with a huge price premium...
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#21
repman244
by: RejZoR
Or if they'd stop sticking damn GPU's into every CPU... Some of us will NEVER need the integrated one and is just wasting the die space for no reason.
Why is the GPU bothering you? It's not used so it can't cause problems.

If they had a separate CPU with no GPU you would moan about it being more expensive.
Having to produce one die for all is the cheapest way to go.
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#22
boogerlad
What bothers me is that we're paying more for something we don't need. The gpu die is useless and consumes 40% of die space, which directly translates to how much it costs to manufacture.
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#23
repman244
by: boogerlad
What bothers me is that we're paying more for something we don't need. The gpu die is useless and consumes 40% of die space, which directly translates to how much it costs to manufacture.
Like I said, the cost of having to produce 2 different dies is higher. It's much cheaper to produce one die and lock down the parts that aren't needed.
So I don't see why would you want to pay more for a different chip that would have identical performance.
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#24
Ferrum Master
by: johnspack
Why are they putting a gpu in an enthusiast level cpu? I just don't get that.
by: boogerlad
What bothers me is that we're paying more for something we don't need. The gpu die is useless and consumes 40% of die space, which directly translates to how much it costs to manufacture.
You are wrong a bit... Intel has an opportunity to sell die pancakes with faulty gpu part and make more profit, think for yourself - more complex GPU the more errors it could have, just as nvidia and amd has struggle selling crippled GPU's now... :laugh:
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#25
Random Murderer
The Anti-Midas
by: iO
Only if they create a super mega overclocking SKU for LN2 OCing with a huge price premium...
You mean as in any "Extreme Edition" processor?
Anytime you see an Intel chip with "X" in the name(x6800, qx9650, 980x, 3960x, etc.), you know it's hugely overpriced and is meant for that guy who doesn't want to buy a bunch of regular chips and bin them himself, and will most likely be run sub-ambient at least once.
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