Friday, May 24th 2013

Xbox One Chip Slower Than PlayStation 4

After bagging chip supply deals for all three new-generation consoles -- Xbox One, PlayStation 4, and Wii U, things are looking up for AMD. While Wii U uses older-generation hardware technologies, Xbox One and PlayStation 4 use the very latest AMD has to offer -- "Jaguar" 64-bit x86 CPU micro-architecture, and Graphics CoreNext GPU architecture. Chips that run the two consoles have a lot in common, but also a few less-than-subtle differences.

PlayStation 4 chip, which came to light this February, is truly an engineer's fantasy. It combines eight "Jaguar" 64-bit x86 cores clocked at 1.60 GHz, with a fairly well spec'd Radeon GPU, which features 1,156 stream processors, 32 ROPs; and a 256-bit wide unified GDDR5 memory interface, clocked at 5.50 GHz. At these speeds, the system gets a memory bandwidth of 176 GB/s. Memory isn't handled like UMA (unified memory architecture), there's no partition between system- and graphics-memory. The two are treated as items on the same 8 GB of memory, and either can use up a majority of it.

Xbox One chip is a slightly different beast. It uses the same eight "Jaguar" 1.60 GHz cores, but a slightly smaller Radeon GPU that packs 768 stream processors, and a quad-channel DDR3-2133 MHz memory interface, which offers a memory bandwidth of 68.3 GB/s, and holding 8 GB of memory. Memory between the two subsystems are shared in a similar way to PlayStation 4, with one small difference. Xbox One chip uses a large 32 MB SRAM cache, which operates at 102 GB/s, but at infinitesimally lower latency than GDDR5. This cache cushions data-transfers for the GPU. Microsoft engineers are spinning this off as "200 GB/s of memory bandwidth," by somehow clubbing bandwidths of the various memory types in the system.

The two consoles also differ with software. While PlayStation 4 runs a Unix-derived operating system with OpenGL 4.2 API, Xbox One uses software developers are more familiar with -- a 64-bit Windows NT 6.x kernel-based operating system, running DirectX 11 API. Despite these differences, the chips on the two consoles should greatly reduce multi-platform production costs for game studios, as the two consoles together have a lot in common with PC.Source: Heise.de
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148 Comments on Xbox One Chip Slower Than PlayStation 4

#1
seronx
PS4 => OpenGL 4.3, 1152 ALUs(256 ALUs(from Jaguar SoC)+ 896 ALUs(from Bonaire)), GDDR5 is Quad-channel just like Xbox One.
Xbox One => DX11.1, 768 ALUs(256 ALUs(from Jaguar SoC)+ 512 ALUs(Ripped from Kaveri lol))

The clock-speeds for the CPU cores actually appear to be around 2.0 GHz, nominally.
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#2
NC37
Don't care how good it may be on paper, whenever you add extra steps to a process it doesn't usually = greater performance. That with a weaker GPU than the PS4 on top of all the outrage about used games, needing net to play, and then always on Kinect. Looks like M$ has fumbled. Time to return to the lead Sony. Don't mess it up again!
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#3
15th Warlock
There's also a very interesting analysis by Anand at:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4

In it you can see in detail how the memory bandwidth is shared between different components on both consoles.

He also reviewed Kavini, the architecture behind the Jaguar cores shared by both consoles here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6974/amd-kabini-review

It's AMD's latest, but as a low power part it's really meant to compete against ARM and Atom processors, not desktop class processors like Ivy Bridge or Piledriver, future's not looking very bright for consoles in terms of CPU power, as even dual core desktop parts handily beat Jaguar...

Funny thing is, the fact that PS4 has a faster GPU won't mean much to game developers, as they usually program games for the lowest common denominator hardware, and then port their software to other platforms :p
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#4
de.das.dude
Pro Indian Modder
i always thought they made for highest hardware and scaled it down for the lower ones.

im no expert, but shouldnt Sony start using DX11? or wont they because DX is MS tech?
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#5
james888
Xbox One Fan Quieter Than PlayStation 4
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#6
15th Warlock
by: de.das.dude
i always thought they made for highest hardware and scaled it down for the lower ones.

im no expert, but shouldnt Sony start using DX11? or wont they because DX is MS tech?
Nope, unfortunately, that's why most current multi platform games are limited by 256MBs of RAM to do things like A.I. routines, basic polygon models, map sizes, and such as this is the amount of RAM available to the PS3 developers, they rely heavily on streaming data, and then they scale things like textures, tesselation or add more pixel intensive effects when porting these games to PC.
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#8
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
by: james888
Xbox One Fan Quieter Than PlayStation 4
Says who? Because if we go off of history even higher watt playstation systems have had quieter fans than the xbox's to date.
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#9
Lionheart
They look like pretty good specs too me for next gen console's but I was hoping a higher clock speed for the CPU:ohwell: At least around the 2Ghz mark :toast:
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#10
jmcslob
For some reason I think they will both play basically the same and in the end MS will beat SONY for some unknown reason that has absolutely no logic to it...

I think it will be awile before devs can actually take advantage full advantage of either system and by then it won't really matter which system is better....it doesn't now and I see no reason for it to matter in the future.

Besides MS is giving greedy Devs exactly what they want and then some...
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#11
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
by: lZKoce
I already saw the early reactions after the MS's press-conference late at night. ;) :D
Xbox is going to get a lot more developer/publisher support simply because it forbids second hand sales. People go where the games are so I think Xbox One is going to have a huge leg up on PS4. It disgusts me but that's the way it is.
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#12
james888
by: cdawall
Says who? Because if we go off of history even higher watt playstation systems have had quieter fans than the xbox's to date.
It might not be. Lesser gpu -> Lesser tdp -> Fan is quieter. I guess Microsoft could mess that up somehow.
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#13
NinkobEi
by: FordGT90Concept
Xbox is going to get a lot more developer/publisher support simply because it forbids second hand sales. People go where the games are so I think Xbox One is going to have a huge leg up on PS4. It disgusts me but that's the way it is.
Playstation historically has always had the best exclusive titles. This generation will not be any different. It has to do with which continent the console is developed on. MS can try to make an appeal to japanese developers but in the end there will always be that language barrier.

by: james888
Xbox One Fan Quieter Than PlayStation 4
If you read the Anandtech report, the PS4 should run a lot hotter/higher power. Seems unlikely that their fan will be quieter.
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#14
james888
by: NinkobEi
If you read the Anandtech report, the PS4 should run a lot hotter/higher power. Seems unlikely that their fan will be quieter.
I skimmed it. It sounds like you just said that the ps4 is hotter and that it is unlikely the xbox would be quieter? I was saying the xbox should produce less heat do to the lesser chip making a fan not have to work so hard making the system quieter.
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#15
NinkobEi
by: james888
I skimmed it. It sounds like you just said that the ps4 is hotter and that it is unlikely the xbox would be quieter? I was saying the xbox should produce less heat do to the lesser chip making a fan not have to work so hard making the system quieter.
Crap apparently i'm dyslexic today. Carry on :banghead:
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#17
NinkobEi
by: tigger
I like this, i think maybe Nvidia is sore 'cause both Msft and Sony have gone with Ati-

http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/991/nvidia-ps4-gpu-is-too-cheap-and-too-weak.html
Let's speculate
My bet is that both companies wanted similar architecture to make development cheaper. Yes they probably worked together on this after learning last-gen that independent dev is absurdly costly. AMD was most certainly the lowest bidder.

Then they probably wanted the cpu/gpu to be developed by the same company for several reasons. Cost, synergy. Next gen if the Tegra has evolved to 32 cores and nvidia becomes more established in the processor department maybe they will have a better chance.
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#19
DannibusX
I got an Xbox One on my desk. I can hook it up to my TV if I want to.
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#20
Dent1
by: james888
I skimmed it. It sounds like you just said that the ps4 is hotter and that it is unlikely the xbox would be quieter? I was saying the xbox should produce less heat do to the lesser chip making a fan not have to work so hard making the system quieter.
In theory yes, but not necessarily.

The previous Xbox's were loud because the fan they selected was badly designed, simply put, it had nothing to do with heat output.

We have desktop CPUs running a lot hotter than it's console counterpart, yet even the most mainstream cooling system is silent or near silent. If Microsoft or Sony want a quiet fan, they will source one, if they don't it's because they're cutting costs or feel that noise isn't a priority. It has little to do with heat constraints.
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#21
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
by: NinkobEi
Playstation historically has always had the best exclusive titles. This generation will not be any different. It has to do with which continent the console is developed on. MS can try to make an appeal to japanese developers but in the end there will always be that language barrier.
Because Sony paid for it. Publishers will see a much bigger pay check from no second hand sales than what Sony could ever pay. It will be different because publishers have always resented second hand sales and they now, finally, have a console that eliminates it. They will flock to it because all publishers are corporations and corporations are all about money. If people don't boycott Xbox One, PS4 and Wii U will be the last consoles not to eliminate second hand sales.


Xbox 360 had inferior hardware to the PS3 but Xbox 360 won out because of its early launch.
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#22
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
You know, my Xbox 360 isn't very loud. The only thing loud on it is the DVD drive. If you play something downloaded off the hard drive it is actually pretty quiet. I have the second to last generation of original white Xbox 360s. It has worked pretty well for me but I haven't used it lately either.

Despite the Xbox One being a bit slower, I don't think it will be noticeable. I saw it coming a mile away that MS was going to use DX and PS was going to use OpenGL. For idealism sake, I would like to see Sony succeed but I'm afraid I have to agree with Ford. The game industry businesses in general flock to where the money is.
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#23
Kaynar
Funny thing is, some highly placed moron in EA said yesterday that Xbox One is 1 step ahead of the highest end PC today!
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#24
Black.Raven
in the case of unified memory yes. but im sure you can build something thats waaaaay faster than the xbox one/1/3/3thgeneration. Whatever :D :cool:
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#25
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
the worst thing about the playstation 4 is that it is made by sony. don't buy it for its advertised features because they will just come up with a way to legally remove those features.
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