Friday, May 24th 2013

Xbox One Chip Slower Than PlayStation 4

After bagging chip supply deals for all three new-generation consoles -- Xbox One, PlayStation 4, and Wii U, things are looking up for AMD. While Wii U uses older-generation hardware technologies, Xbox One and PlayStation 4 use the very latest AMD has to offer -- "Jaguar" 64-bit x86 CPU micro-architecture, and Graphics CoreNext GPU architecture. Chips that run the two consoles have a lot in common, but also a few less-than-subtle differences.

PlayStation 4 chip, which came to light this February, is truly an engineer's fantasy. It combines eight "Jaguar" 64-bit x86 cores clocked at 1.60 GHz, with a fairly well spec'd Radeon GPU, which features 1,156 stream processors, 32 ROPs; and a 256-bit wide unified GDDR5 memory interface, clocked at 5.50 GHz. At these speeds, the system gets a memory bandwidth of 176 GB/s. Memory isn't handled like UMA (unified memory architecture), there's no partition between system- and graphics-memory. The two are treated as items on the same 8 GB of memory, and either can use up a majority of it.

Xbox One chip is a slightly different beast. It uses the same eight "Jaguar" 1.60 GHz cores, but a slightly smaller Radeon GPU that packs 768 stream processors, and a quad-channel DDR3-2133 MHz memory interface, which offers a memory bandwidth of 68.3 GB/s, and holding 8 GB of memory. Memory between the two subsystems are shared in a similar way to PlayStation 4, with one small difference. Xbox One chip uses a large 32 MB SRAM cache, which operates at 102 GB/s, but at infinitesimally lower latency than GDDR5. This cache cushions data-transfers for the GPU. Microsoft engineers are spinning this off as "200 GB/s of memory bandwidth," by somehow clubbing bandwidths of the various memory types in the system.

The two consoles also differ with software. While PlayStation 4 runs a Unix-derived operating system with OpenGL 4.2 API, Xbox One uses software developers are more familiar with -- a 64-bit Windows NT 6.x kernel-based operating system, running DirectX 11 API. Despite these differences, the chips on the two consoles should greatly reduce multi-platform production costs for game studios, as the two consoles together have a lot in common with PC.Source: Heise.de
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148 Comments on Xbox One Chip Slower Than PlayStation 4

#1
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
I think PS4 and XB1 will have about the same price. The savings on the weaker hardware in XB1 is going towards Kinect.
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#2
Mindweaver
Moderato®™
by: FordGT90Concept
I think PS4 and XB1 will have about the same price. The savings on the weaker hardware in XB1 is going towards Kinect.
I agree. :toast:

@everybody: I don't think it will matter to the masses that it's slower, because the PS3 is faster than the XBox 360 correct? and nobody cared. Of course the dev's had a very rough time harnessing the power of the PS3, because it was so crappy to code. I think it will come down to content. :toast:
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#3
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
i'm not sure what all the arguing is about. when it comes to consoles, the difference in hardware specs should not be considered until AFTER examining the codebase. a console could have the most powerful proc/gpu combo but if its codebase is crap then games are going to run like crap. why do you think a company Naughty Dog can churn out amazing looking games for the PS3 or why Polyphony can add such amazing detail to their cars in GT5? It is because the codebase for the PS3, while more complicated, is far superior to the xbox 360. Of course, the downside is you get a fewer number of optimized games. anyway...
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#4
NeoXF
by: Easy Rhino
i'm not sure what all the arguing is about. when it comes to consoles, the difference in hardware specs should not be considered until AFTER examining the codebase. a console could have the most powerful proc/gpu combo but if its codebase is crap then games are going to run like crap. why do you think a company Naughty Dog can churn out amazing looking games for the PS3 or why Polyphony can add such amazing detail to their cars in GT5? It is because the codebase for the PS3, while more complicated, is far superior to the xbox 360. Of course, the downside is you get a fewer number of optimized games. anyway...
PS3 games also didn't start looking "impressive" untill late 2009... An almost 3 year lag (that's a pretty steep learning curve, even more so for first party developers)... coincidence? I think not.
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#5
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: NeoXF
PS3 games also didn't start looking "impressive" untill late 2009... An almost 3 year lag (that's a pretty steep learning curve, even more so for first party developers)... coincidence? I think not.
Yup, and the 360 having a IBM POWER chip in it with Altivec handy, a lot more developers knew how to work with that as opposed to the PS3. I think this will be less of an issue since both the Xbox One and PS4 will be on x86. I suspect that MS might pull ahead since they already have devoted a lot of time and development into writing stuff for x86(_64) in the past, a lot more so than Sony.

Consider the Windows kernel for example, it is a very mature piece of software and I suspect that MS has learned a lot of things after making mistakes in the past.
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#6
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
by: Aquinus
Yup, and the 360 having a IBM POWER chip in it with Altivec handy, a lot more developers knew how to work with that as opposed to the PS3. I think this will be less of an issue since both the Xbox One and PS4 will be on x86. I suspect that MS might pull ahead since they already have devoted a lot of time and development into writing stuff for x86(_64) in the past, a lot more so than Sony.

Consider the Windows kernel for example, it is a very mature piece of software and I suspect that MS has learned a lot of things after making mistakes in the past.
i don't know about that. between Sony and Microsoft I would argue that Sony will deliver the better codebase to develop games on.
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#7
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Are you forgetting DirectX, XNA, .NET Framework, and Visual Studio? Microsoft is the undisputed champion of codebases.
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#8
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
by: FordGT90Concept
Are you forgetting DirectX, XNA, .NET Framework, and Visual Studio? Microsoft is the undisputed champion of codebases.
Yes, but it's not like those programmers don't also work for Sony.
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#9
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Unless Sony sniped them, they don't. Also considering that most PlayStation development isn't done by SCEA, I highly doubt they sniped many/any employees from Microsoft.
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#10
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: Easy Rhino
Yes, but it's not like those programmers don't also work for Sony.
We programmers have lives too. We don't eat code, defecate programs, and sleep in the interim like a computer does. :roll:

In all seriousness, I think Ford is right. MS developed tools for making it easier to efficiently implement things and I think that will work in MS's favor. Not to say that Sony is incompetent, it's just that this is kind of MS's domain and they've been doing it for a long time. They haven't got to where they are now by writing mediocre software, despite what everyone things. Even if Sony has the developers, MS already has the technology.
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#11
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Big deal if Microsoft has been doing it a long time. Sony has been developing consoles longer than MS. The original PS was a marvel of technology. The PS2 was an incredible leap and much better than the XBOX. My bet is that Sony delivers the better codebase because they have a longer history with this stuff.
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#12
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Not really. Only thing revolutionary about the PS was CD, PS2 was DVD, and PS3 was BluRay (and Cell, but in a bad way). Now that discs are diminishing in importance, Microsoft has a real opportunity to do a huge number on Sony.
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#13
m1dg3t
Sega had CD as did Panasonic 3D0, which were both out before PS IIRC

Anyone recall what NeoGeo was? Cartridge or disc?
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#14
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
by: FordGT90Concept
Not really. Only thing revolutionary about the PS was CD, PS2 was DVD, and PS3 was BluRay (and Cell, but in a bad way). Now that discs are diminishing in importance, Microsoft has a real opportunity to do a huge number on Sony.
They could but they won't. This is Microsoft we are talking about after all. Look at the backlash they already have thanks to poor management decisions over Windows 8 and the latest XBOX. Technology has never been Microsoft's problem, it is always been poor strategy. Sony will win again.
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#15
erocker
by: m1dg3t
Sega had CD as did Panasonic 3D0, which were both out before PS IIRC

Anyone recall what NeoGeo was? Cartridge or disc?
Big beautiful cartridges! I loved it when software was.. hardware. :D
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#16
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
by: Easy Rhino
They could but they won't. This is Microsoft we are talking about after all. Look at the backlash they already have thanks to poor management decisions over Windows 8 and the latest XBOX. Technology has never been Microsoft's problem, it is always been poor strategy. Sony will win again.
That Windows 8 bit is murky at best and the Xbox One (if that is what you are refering to) is not out so it's hard to say anything about "backlashes".

Not to mention that XB1 shares some stuff with Windows, it'll be easier to port and all that. I think MS will draw the longest straw here.
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#17
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
by: Frick
That Windows 8 bit is murky at best and the Xbox One (if that is what you are refering to) is not out so it's hard to say anything about "backlashes".

Not to mention that XB1 shares some stuff with Windows, it'll be easier to port and all that. I think MS will draw the longest straw here.
in what? game quality or sales?
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#18
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
by: Easy Rhino
in what? game quality or sales?
Game quality is irrelevant, all games suck anyway. Sales, and general useability, if that is a word.
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#19
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
by: Frick
Game quality is irrelevant, all games suck anyway. Sales, and general useability, if that is a word.
damn, that is just negative. i wouldn't say all games suck. i would say though that 90% of titles delivered by the big distro/devel houses suck. most of the indie games i have played have been fun but get boring after an hour or so. all in all i think games are in a pretty big slump. i do hope things like Kinect and Move change the game a bit. pun intended.
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#20
CrAsHnBuRnXp
by: Easy Rhino
damn, that is just negative. i wouldn't say all games suck. i would say though that 90% of titles delivered by the big distro/devel houses suck. most of the indie games i have played have been fun but get boring after an hour or so. all in all i think games are in a pretty big slump. i do hope things like Kinect and Move change the game a bit. pun intended.
I wont play a game if i have to get up and dance around. :laugh:
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#21
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
by: Easy Rhino
i do hope things like Kinect and Move change the game a bit. pun intended.
It's like 3D. Entertaining for 15 minutes and never used again. So...worse than indie games but a helluvalot more expensive. :p
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#22
theoneandonlymrk
by: CrAsHnBuRnXp
I wont play a game if i have to get up and dance around. :laugh:
I can't even be bothered holding my arms up to drive , what next a pad so you don't have to exercise:D
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#23
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
by: FordGT90Concept
It's like 3D. Entertaining for 15 minutes and never used again. So...worse than indie games but a helluvalot more expensive. :p
+1: I bought a Kinect and I personally haven't used it more than 2 or 3 hours total, but I will use it for main menu navigation if I feel like it and its nice when it will log you into your gamer tag based on your face.

With that said though, 30 minutes of Kinect is a good daily exercise because it really does make you move around a lot in some games.
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