Sunday, June 16th 2013

Microsoft Pulls a Fast One with E3 Xbox One Demos

With its focus on on-demand entertainment at the expense of gaming prowess, Xbox One didn't impress gamers at E3, who instead flocked to Amazon to pre-order their PlayStation 4, which not only features faster hardware, that could translate to better visuals in gaming, but is also a whole 20 percent cheaper ($499 vs. $399). At E3, Microsoft tried to pull a fast one. It set up several gaming stations allegedly powered by Xbox One, where gamers could play unreleased Xbox One games using the new Xbox One controller, just to get a feel of how rich and smooth the graphics really are. Some of them fell for it, others didn't. When these peeping toms didn't find the screens wired to an Xbox One main unit, they yanked open the cupboards below, only to find a full-fledged Windows 7 gaming PC.

How full-fledged you ask? Keen observers across the forumscape made out a rig powered by an Intel LGA2011 processor, which could at least be a Core i7-3820, and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 700 series reference design graphics card, which could at least be a GeForce GTX 770. Such a system would obviously give you a rich and smooth gaming experience.

Microsoft Xbox One features a custom-designed application processor by AMD, which combines eight 64-bit x86 cores based on the "Jaguar" micro-architecture, with a GPU that packs 768 Graphics CoreNext stream processors, and a unified quad-channel DDR3-2133 memory interface, holding 8 GB of memory. This memory is cushioned by a large 32 MB SRAM cache on-die. In comparison, Sony's PlayStation 4 features a custom-designed application processor, too, which features the same CPU portion, but a bigger graphics core with 1,152 stream processors, and a 256-bit wide GDDR5 memory interface, holding 8 GB of RAM, which can be used as both main and graphics memory. On top of all that, the PlayStation 4 is $100 cheaper, at $399.Source: Gaming Blend. Many Thanks to Fluffmeister for the tip.
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161 Comments on Microsoft Pulls a Fast One with E3 Xbox One Demos

#1
Rowsol
I've never wanted a product to fail more. I hope people have enough sense to buy the PS4 over this.
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#2
AsRock
TPU addict
I find it funny that it says they had nVidia cards in them.
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#3
Mistral
Not sure how this is a "fast one". Seems like pretty standard practice to me and I doubt Sony does it much differently.
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#4
Huguito
by: Dj-ElectriC
OR, they could use the FX8350 with an HD7970 Ghz instead of going and exposing all Intel+NVIDIA systems.
It's this "when the moment of truth stikes" kinda situations
by: jihadjoe
I learn 2 things from this:

1) Even AMD partners don't use AMD!
2) Even Microsoft doesn't use Windows 8!
:banghead:


THEY RUN AN NVIDIA CARD INSTEAD OF AMD BECAUSE THATS THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE PHYSX AVAILABLE[/SIZE] IN THIS SO CALLED "DEMO"



:banghead: :shadedshu :slap:
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#5
Shihabyooo
by: Naito
Did it occur to anyone that the Xbox OS actually runs inside a VM? And the games are most likely hard-coded to the specifications the Xbox OS environment provides?
It does most likely include emulation somewhere, I doubt most of the displayed games would make it to PC, but that doesn't justify using overkill specs.

Common sense time: Use similar specs to the end product (plus emulation cost) and be done with it, or use drastically faster ones and lock them down to what need?

PR common sense: Use components from brands competing with our partners, or use ones from our partners?

Visual wise, it's a question of whether the games themselves have potential for any.
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#6
Covert_Death
all i have to say is this just proves that PC gaming wont suffer as much this time around. if all the consoles are running PC hardware GREAT, that means ports will be better. ON TOP OF THAT they are 8-core machines! games will finally take use of 8 cores!!!!!!! my 8350 @ 5.0Ghz is really going to start to shine ;)
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#7
Dj-ElectriC
by: Huguito
:banghead:


THEY RUN AN NVIDIA CARD INSTEAD OF AMD BECAUSE THATS THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE PHYSX AVAILABLE[/SIZE] IN THIS SO CALLED "DEMO"



:banghead: :shadedshu :slap:
So, on what games they displayd GPU physX?
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#8
Fx
by: YogurtMaster
You all all newbies.

The amount of ignorance is staggering. There is more ignorance and scare tactics than actual facts.

I am sad that you guys put together computers and you should be on the up and up on this stuff and now you are just as ignorant than anyone else.

You get hardware that is close to the final hardware so developers can actually create their game.
The hardware they used IS NOT close to final specs. You couldn't have sounded any worse than the least knowledgeable person in this forum. If you are going to blatantly bash people, then at least make sure your premise is sound.
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#9
Prima.Vera
The best part about their "demo" is they run it on nVidia GPU and Intel CPU. :))))))))))))

This can be voted as FAIL OF THE YEAR! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::rockout:
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#10
m1dg3t
by: Fx
The hardware they used IS NOT close to final specs. You couldn't have sounded any worse than the least knowledgeable person in this forum. If you are going to blatantly bash people, then at least make sure your premise is sound.
You rang¿?¡! :laugh:

Xbone; Giving you "The Bone"! :roll::roll:
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#12
Jstn7477
To be a little fair, LGA 2011 is the only consumer PC platform that supports quad channel DDR3, but MS could have easily used a single socket Opteron octo-core which would have likely had slightly more realistic performance. Also, for the PhysX argument, why would a GTX 780 be needed when the console's GPU is expected to be slower than a vanilla GTX 660? These demo systems seem awfully overkill not to mention MS wasn't even using its current OS.
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#13
hardcore_gamer
by: Jstn7477
not to mention MS wasn't even using its current OS
Not even M$ uses windows 8:roll:
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#14
Covert_Death
by: Jstn7477
To be a little fair, LGA 2011 is the only consumer PC platform that supports quad channel DDR3, but MS could have easily used a single socket Opteron octo-core which would have likely had slightly more realistic performance. Also, for the PhysX argument, why would a GTX 780 be needed when the console's GPU is expected to be slower than a vanilla GTX 660? These demo systems seem awfully overkill not to mention MS wasn't even using its current OS.
in their defense their current OS wasn't available when they sent out dev builds, so developers have been producing on windows 7 ... as for the rest of it, its overkill but a PC is expected as these types of events, anyone expecting an actual final build xbox is nuts. i guarantee ps4 was running on PC's as well.

for the record i pre-ordered a PS4
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#15
hardcore_gamer
I bet they ran the the demo of "Ryse son of rome" on a PC as well. The visuals were stunning. It may not look as good on an actual Xbone.
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#16
de.das.dude
Pro Indian Modder
by: Huguito
:banghead:


THEY RUN AN NVIDIA CARD INSTEAD OF AMD BECAUSE THATS THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE PHYSX AVAILABLE[/SIZE] IN THIS SO CALLED "DEMO"



:banghead: :shadedshu :slap:
what games now run physx? and what consoles run phsx? tress fx ftw.
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#17
Naito
by: Shihabyooo
It does most likely include emulation somewhere, I doubt most of the displayed games would make it to PC, but that doesn't justify using overkill specs.

Common sense time: Use similar specs to the end product (plus emulation cost) and be done with it, or use drastically faster ones and lock them down to what need?.
Is it really overkill, though? What consumer PC products do you find providing 68GB/s of DDR3 bandwidth and the high speed, low latency of SRAM? None. I presume the specifications of those machines would need to be rather high to provide smooth virtualization of the Xbox OS.
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#18
Huguito
by: de.das.dude
what games now run physx? and what consoles run phsx? tress fx ftw.
BOTH consoles are confirmed that are going to run Physx api... how can you run Physx effects on a PC (becuase you dont have a working console in the dem at E3) ???

a PC with an Nvidia card, thats how; and yes, the APU can run DirectCompute effects too, but the fact is that Phsyx is still present, maybe iuts up to the developer wich one they want to use
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#19
MxPhenom 216
Corsair Fanboy
by: theo2021
I believe that we gamers should support more linux gaming. Microsoft is getting worse over the years in the gaming environment for windows although they made it better for the some consumers and we have to pay for the software.If games would run smoother in linux we would see many many consoles using linux since it is opensource and many companies would make their own consoles customizing the linux software as they want to and the prices would go down.But the best thing is that the game developers would make only one version of the game since pc and consoles will have identical environments so they would sell games cheaper too. So we will have cheaper and more consoles free pc software and cheaper games.
No thanks to that. Linux blows.
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#20
Jorge
I imagine they are finalising the real Xbox software so this was a development unit. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it as I would expect the next Xbox to actually be superior in performance to the demo model used for development work on the software.
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#21
andresgriego
These are 'alpha dev kits' and it's part of the reason Sony moved x86, to reduce cost of startup and to grow profit potential.

The final hardware and optimized os might be representative of the performance class they demonstrated. If so then there's nothing wrong with what they did.

Unless Xbox games are marketed cheaper, M$ is obviously just maximizing profit at our expense.
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#22
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
by: YogurtMaster
They probably didn't have time and so they had to use what they have. A lot of things are like this at E3. I don't see your point. You think that it's not going to be like that with the XB1. When you use the XB1 you can use the cloud as well (or limit the FPS to a frame rate), so it's not such a one to one answer.

This happens at E3 often, it's not like its something new.
So now you've changed your argument from "they were PC based dev kits" to "they used whatever they had laying around due to time". Ok, I can believe that, but using such insanely high powered PCs compared to the final spec to demo games is still deceptive regardless of is they intended it or not.

by: acerace
Why? Because he made a sensible arguments? That's why you labeling him like that? :laugh:

Linus also talked about this issue in his June 14th live stream. http://youtu.be/0GwurgaAIQg?t=24m7s Fast-forwarded to the issue.
Sensible arguments don't tend to start off with insults, and usually the person making the argument doesn't backtrack and change their arguments halfway through.

by: Covert_Death
in their defense their current OS wasn't available when they sent out dev builds, so developers have been producing on windows 7 ... as for the rest of it, its overkill but a PC is expected as these types of events, anyone expecting an actual final build xbox is nuts. i guarantee ps4 was running on PC's as well.

for the record i pre-ordered a PS4
A PC is expected yes, because early dev kits are nothing more than PCs in general. However, using such an insanely powered PC to demo games, which will likely make the games perform better and look better than the final product is not what I would call acceptable.

The Sony dev kits were also likely PCs, but they were PCs that were actually reasonably close to the final product.

by: de.das.dude
what games now run physx? and what consoles run phsx? tress fx ftw.
TressFX is a soft body only physics engine, good for cloth and hair and thats about it. It doesn't do particle physics, so it is not a usable alternative to PhysX or any of the other real physics engines.

by: Huguito
BOTH consoles are confirmed that are going to run Physx api... how can you run Physx effects on a PC (becuase you dont have a working console in the dem at E3) ???

a PC with an Nvidia card, thats how; and yes, the APU can run DirectCompute effects too, but the fact is that Phsyx is still present, maybe iuts up to the developer wich one they want to use
You don't need an nVidia card to use the PhysX API. Consoles use the software version of PhsyX that runs on the CPU, this is also available on the PC.

And if they were running hardware accelerated PhysX on their demos, then that is even more of a deception because the final console will not have hardware accelerated PhysX.
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#23
Covert_Death
by: newtekie1


The Sony dev kits were also likely PCs, but they were PCs that were actually reasonably close to the final product.
proof... im not surprised they are powerful units at all. they were probably sponsored on some level by a 3rd party "demo" vendor who doesn't rent out "cheap PC's" but top of the line gaming ready, DEMO pc's.... in all likely hood this is the scenario that happened and sony probaby did the same thing, again im NOT defending M$, they are pigs and are going to die this time around the console generation but this miss understanding of how things work is rediculous
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#24
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
by: Covert_Death
proof... im not surprised they are powerful units at all. they were probably sponsored on some level by a 3rd party "demo" vendor who doesn't rent out "cheap PC's" but top of the line gaming ready, DEMO pc's.... in all likely hood this is the scenario that happened and sony probaby did the same thing, again im NOT defending M$, they are pigs and are going to die this time around the console generation but this miss understanding of how things work is rediculous
Proof of what? That Sony used actual Dev Kits, well they said so. Proof that Sony's Dev Kits are close to the final spec of the product? Look at dev kits, that is what they are, close to the final product.
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#25
eidairaman1
by: newtekie1
Proof of what? That Sony used actual Dev Kits, well they said so. Proof that Sony's Dev Kits are close to the final spec of the product? Look at dev kits, that is what they are, close to the final product.
Sega had Dev Kits for the Dreamcast hardware in the day, consoles are nothing more than what smart phones are- firmware based hardware
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