Friday, October 18th 2013

NVIDIA Announces GeForce GTX 780 Ti to Counter Radeon R9 290X

With benchmarks of the Radeon R9 290X doing rounds, it's getting increasingly clear that NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 780 won't remain competitive with the Radeon R9 290X for too long; and the R9 290X isn't competitive with the GeForce GTX TITAN enough to warrant a price-cut for the $999.99 SKU. NVIDIA's solution to the tangle is a newer SKU that replaces the GTX 780 from its current $649.99 price-point, which trades blows with the R9 290X. Called GeForce GTX 780 Ti, the SKU could be an overclocked GTX 780, or one that ships with a few more CUDA cores. NVIDIA didn't reveal any technical specifications, other than posting a teaser picture CGI render. To quote NVIDIA on this, "Stay tuned for details."
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128 Comments on NVIDIA Announces GeForce GTX 780 Ti to Counter Radeon R9 290X

#1
radrok
by: 15th Warlock
Shit, I was really hoping for a price cut for Titan, would this new 780 card be able to do SLI with existing Titan cards?
Knowing how Nvidia works I wouldn't hope on that.
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#2
Melvis
Realy?? Isnt this why they have the "Titan" ???
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#3
harry90
According to early sources 290x is 23.8 percent faster than 780 at 2160p(4k).
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#4
springs113
didn't AMD crash their party yesterday?
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#5
ManosHandsOfFate
by: Am*
Titan is an old SKU that will clearly struggle to compete with the R290X, at least at its price point, and there are already a crapton of custom GTX 780s flooding the market with higher clocks -- and almost no-one buying them. AMD clearly lit a fire under Nvidia's arses, because 700 series are nothing but re-brands of 600 series cards up to the 770 and everything above that has sold next to nothing. The only smart thing that will save Nvidia's high end range is a huge price cut across their entire range, because if they pull their retarded arrogant act yet again, like they did earlier this year with their stupendous overpricing, and refuse to budge on the costs, they will end up with a mountain of GK110 salvage parts by Q1 2014 and nobody buying them. Nvidia cannot expect their customers to keep buying into the fake "demand" for their top of the range, overpriced GPUs for so long before everyone starts seeing through the BS.
The only 2 cards above the 770 are the 780, and Titan respectively, both of which have sold A SH*T TON and have been IMMENSELY SUCCESSFUL, so you're comment claiming otherwise is downright confusing, and incorrect. Say what you want about Nvidia, but they are VERY, VERY, VERY SUCCESSFUL.
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#6
Kaynar
nVidia's next move: a GTX Titan with better capacitors,bios and no stupid throttling, so that the chip can easily do 1300mhz.
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#7
the54thvoid
by: harry90
According to early sources 290x is 23.8 percent faster than 780 at 2160p(4k).
Yeah but there are very few 4k owners. Even 1440p is considered above average amongst most gamers at the moment.

And then ask, is it 23.8% faster than a GTX 780Ti? Oooh, see what Nvidia did.

Interestingly, if Nvidia really do have availability come mid November (<28 days away) it means they've had it waiting. I think the slow release of 290X is maybe due to AMD waiting to see what Nvidia were going to counter with. Neither side have publicly stated a firm price.

Do AMD release high and let Nvidia undercut (i Know - unlikely) or do they release lower to get the performance/$ crown. It's all cat and mouse. If it was still ATI it would be cat and moose.
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#8
xvi
by: Aithos
Do you red fanboys even realize that except for the 290x AMDs entire "new" lineup of cards are rebrands?
I can't help but think that the people who bash this point are the same people who praise Apple's "The last generation flagship is this generation's value model".

It's not a new business practice and not practiced by just AMD. If you'd rather spend money to reinvent the wheel to get the same performance, by all means go ahead. Continuing a previous fab saves money for both AMD and its consumers.

Even die-hard nVidia fans (such as yourself, I assume) should be celebrating this since it's driving prices down for nVidia cards. You're welcome.
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#9
the54thvoid
by: xvi
Apple.
Don't cuss in front of the kids!
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#10
LAN_deRf_HA
So basically nvidia is saying we still want to sell cards at $650 and $1000, and the 780 can deal with the 290X. We don't know if that's true until real reviews, but if this is their response at least they think it is. Of course there's nothing stopping them from making a further price adjustment after seeing how the market reacts.
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#11
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
Educated guess: It's a GTX Titan with lower clocks and 3 GB of memory.
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#12
harry90
by: the54thvoid
Yeah but there are very few 4k owners. Even 1440p is considered above average amongst most gamers at the moment.

And then ask, is it 23.8% faster than a GTX 780Ti? Oooh, see what Nvidia did.

Interestingly, if Nvidia really do have availability come mid November (<28 days away) it means they've had it waiting. I think the slow release of 290X is maybe due to AMD waiting to see what Nvidia were going to counter with. Neither side have publicly stated a firm price.

Do AMD release high and let Nvidia undercut (i Know - unlikely) or do they release lower to get the performance/$ crown. It's all cat and mouse. If it was still ATI it would be cat and moose.
This is competition of course they make new cards that beats the one's released earlier, it depends on personal choice and price which card or side to chose.
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#13
radrok
by: btarunr
Educated guess: It's a GTX Titan with lower clocks and 3 GB of memory.
Good guess, makes for a good chip salvaging strategy.
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#14
Am*
by: Aithos
Do you red fanboys even realize that except for the 290x AMDs entire "new" lineup of cards are rebrands? In fact, you actually have less than nVidia because both the 780 and Titan were on a new chipset (110 instead of 104). AMD is literally rebadged and repricing last years cards.

Also, the nVidia cards have sold amazingly well. This is just a response for the "reference" card, the aftermarket cards that have already been overclocked (EVGA superclocked) for instance are already near Titan performance (which the 290x doesn't beat). This is just a posturing thing, it won't be full fat and it won't be a significant change to Titan. It is PURELY so that AMD can't claim the 290x crushes the reference card.
Are you really that braindead that you can't understand the principle of how SKUs work? All of AMD's previous cards are A. being priced either at the same level or MUCH, MUCH lower than their predecessors (unlike Nvidia who are currently charging WAY more than their previous SKUs -- a 770 sells for anywhere from 30%-50% above a 680s price) and B. It is AMD's first official rebrand to system building consumers. Nvidia have already rebadged their SKUs earlier this year, hence why they are at the "marketing disadvantage", which is exactly what I said.

And where are you getting your bullshit facts from that the 290X won't beat a Titan? Those worthless 1080p benches? Because anybody with a single brain cell left will tell you that the 290X is built to best Kepler at resolutions much higher than that, and that is where it will eat a Titan for breakfast due to its 64 ROPs/512bit bus alone (Nvidia have always had on par or minutely better performance at lower resolutions than AMD due to smaller bus but higher bandwidth and higher clocks). The question then becomes -- do you want Nvidia's card, 2 out of 100 FPS faster at 1080p than the equivalent AMD card in the same game, or a 4K ready AMD card that will add 10-20FPS out of 40 and possibly make the playable difference in games vs the equivalent Nvidia card that can't keep up due to bus width and other limitations? Go look at some 4K benchmarks, where a 7970 is FAR closer to the Titan's performance than it is at 1080p before you get your green coloured panties in a twist...
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#15
hardcore_gamer
This is "Ghz edition" all over again. This time from Nvidia.
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#16
Aithos
by: xvi
I can't help but think that the people who bash this point are the same people who praise Apple's "The last generation flagship is this generation's value model".

It's not a new business practice and not practiced by just AMD. If you'd rather spend money to reinvent the wheel to get the same performance, by all means go ahead. Continuing a previous fab saves money for both AMD and its consumers.

Even die-hard nVidia fans (such as yourself, I assume) should be celebrating this since it's driving prices down for nVidia cards. You're welcome.
I'm not bashing the point. Am* was trashing nVidia for their cards all being re-brands of the 600 series. I just pointed out that AMD was doing exactly the same thing with even less "new" cards. I don't care what companies do, I do care when people are incredibly biased and hypocritical like that guy is.

I am not a die-hard nVidia fan, nor am I a fanboy. I've owned cards from both companies. That being said for the past several systems I've personally build I've went with nVidia. I find their software package and drivers to be superior, their build quality to be better (EVGA is incredible) and performance for the games I run to be better.

It's just a preference, if AMD upped their game and really blew nVidia out of the water I wouldn't even hesitate. The problem is that unless you're at the very high end of the curve it doesn't really matter which camp you're in. A standard mid-level single card from either company is going to be basically the same.

The one point that is relevant is that nVidia has consistently had better support for their cards. Particularly in multiple-gpu setups and bleeding edge driver support. But that's neither here nor there, we don't have a disagreement...BOTH companies re-brand. It would be a complete waste of R&D to re-invent every generation, the only way we support a yearly refresh is by tweaking the previous generation to the limit.
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#17
NeoXF
by: radrok
Nvidia has been doing their multi gpu homework for a much longer time than AMD.
If by doing homework, you mean steal someone else's, then, pour incredible amounts of resources into "selling" it to the teacher... yup, sure.

by: Aithos
I am not a die-hard nVidia fan, nor am I a fanboy. I've owned cards from both companies. That being said for the past several systems I've personally build I've went with nVidia. I find their software package and drivers to be superior, their build quality to be better (EVGA is incredible) and performance for the games I run to be better.
Dear god, have I heard that line a billion times or what... No offence, but that's pretty much THE type-cast nVidia fanboy "argument". Yet somehow I've seen both brands have their share of fails in systems I've worked with, and feel no need to gratuitously bash or sanctify neither.


Anyway, someone said something about the R9 290X being a great deal faster than GTX 780 at the UHD resolution. Here's a compiled list of performance improvements, I don't know it's exact source, some guy at WCCFTech linked it, so don't quote me worth shit just yet.


(Looks screen-captured as to save info on a leak that would've been taken down shortly after)

Also, an editor there mentioned that AMD will also be releasing Catalyst 13.11 BETA3 (probably R9 290/X release drivers) which will add frame-pacing for 3840x2160 resolution and a number of performance improvements in various titles. Which reminds me, I'm really curious of how that bridge-less crossfire works and would it's advantages be (currently I see only one disadvantage).

Yes, nVidia seems a bit desperate right now, but is this not what we wanted? For new cards to be launched and better prices for everyone... Not for "leading" brands to stagnate the whole market with dirty tactics and sky-high prices for rebrands/last-year's tech?
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#18
HumanSmoke
by: Am*
Are you really that braindead that you can't understand the principle of how SKUs work? All of AMD's previous cards are A. being priced either at the same level or MUCH, MUCH lower than their predecessors (unlike Nvidia who are currently charging WAY more than their previous SKUs -- a 770 sells for anywhere from 30%-50% above a 680s price)
Newegg lists six (6) HD 7970 SKUs cheaper than the cheapest R9-280X
Newegg lists both GTX 680's cheaper than the cheapest GTX 770

So much for that hypothesis.
Let me guess...Newegg doesn't count. The only place that counts is the store where you found GTX 680's costing more than GTX 770's and 280X cheaper than 7970's. AMIRITE!

by: Am*
and B. It is AMD's first official rebrand to system building consumers.
HD 7970.....HD 7970 GHz Edition....R9-280X
Which one of these isn't official ?

by: Am*
Nvidia have already rebadged their SKUs earlier this year, hence why they are at the "marketing disadvantage", which is exactly what I said.
Well if its a case of "who rebadges last wins" then firstly, it's a piss poor competition either way, and secondly the GK110 rebadges aren't going to debut before the R9-290X...unless AMD continue delaying until they can bundle the card with Duke Nukem Forever II
by: Am*
290X is built to best Kepler at resolutions much higher than that, and that is where it will eat a Titan for breakfast due to its 64 ROPs/512bit bus alone
You smell that? Do you smell that? Hyperbole, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning.
by: Am*
before you get your green coloured panties in a twist...
Meanwhile, back on Planet Objective...
by: Am*
Yet again, more useless, proprietary and gimmicky crap from Nvidia.
by: Am*
Please GTFO with more of this proprietary, overpriced and useless bullshit to further fragment PC gaming, Nvidia.
by: Am*
and good lord, that stupid name...G-SYNC? Sounds like the name of an Nsync tribute band.
by: Am*
a crapton of custom GTX 780s flooding the market with higher clocks -- and almost no-one buying them.
by: Am*
because 700 series are nothing but re-brands of 600 series cards up to the 770 and everything above that has sold next to nothing.
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#19
radrok
by: NeoXF
If by doing homework, you mean steal someone else's, then, pour incredible amounts of resources into "selling" it to the teacher... yup, sure.
Doesn't matter to me how they got there, I want results and Nvidia happens to deliver way better than AMD on multi GPU tech ;)

I could care less of what AMD/ATI does or Nvidia does, I'm a consumer not their advocate.
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#20
xvi
by: Aithos
I'm not bashing the point. Am* was trashing nVidia for their cards all being re-brands of the 600 series. I just pointed out that AMD was doing exactly the same thing with even less "new" cards.
My mistake for not reading more of the thread. :toast:
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#21
NeoXF
by: radrok
Doesn't matter to me how they got there, I want results and Nvidia happens to deliver way better than AMD on multi GPU tech ;)

I could care less of what AMD/ATI does or Nvidia does, I'm a consumer not their advocate.
Well, if it's one thing AMD has brought to the multi-GPU arena... is excellent scaling, on average... but especially in special cases... I mean, 99-110% scaling in some cases (tho I'm not sure of the validity of over 100% scaling, I have seen 99-100% ones fairly often). Now I do know frame-pacing impacts performance in some cases, stellar scaling still remains in most cases.

Either way, bridge-less CF and the future of AMD drivers/frame-pacing (as well as the question of... does Mantle have special features related to "close-to-metal" multi-GPU coding... like the... multi-core programming rage from a while back) is something I surely will keep an eye out for.


Anyway, there's so many gaming goodies coming out in the near future, it's so damn sad that, even with an insane budget, you can't have access to all of them at once.


by: HumanSmoke
Meanwhile, back on Planet Objective...
Sorry, but you ain't exactly screamin' objectivism to me either...

And BTW, I only see ONE card being cheaper than Radeon R9 280Xs (mail-in rebates and special deals don't count, in case logic escapes some people, as I can apply those same discounts to the new cards as well) AAAAAAAND, news flash, the whole world is bigger than North America, you do know that right... I couldn't care less of prices on NewEgg...
GTX 680 are EOL as far as I'm concerned.
Where I live, R9 280X AKA Overclocked Radeon HD 7970, is cheaper and faster than what it is replacing... and guess what, at the end of the day, that's the only thing that matters.
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#22
HumanSmoke
by: NeoXF
And BTW, I only see ONE card being cheaper than Radeon R9 280Xs (mail-in rebates and special deals don't count, in case logic escapes some people, as I can apply those same discounts to the new cards as well)
Really? MIR's don't count? And even if they did you can apply them to products that they aren't advertised for!

/bookmarked for humour value and future reference.
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#23
N3M3515
by: HumanSmoke
Really? MIR's don't count? And even if they did you can apply them to products that they aren't advertised for!

/bookmarked for humour value and future reference.
Very interesting discussion, please reply this:
"Where I live, R9 280X AKA Overclocked Radeon HD 7970, is cheaper and faster than what it is replacing... and guess what, at the end of the day, that's the only thing that matters."

Making popcorn!
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#24
theoneandonlymrk
by: HumanSmoke
Newegg lists six (6) HD 7970 SKUs cheaper than the cheapest R9-280X
Newegg lists both GTX 680's cheaper than the cheapest GTX 770

So much for that hypothesis.
Let me guess...Newegg doesn't count. The only place that counts is the store where you found GTX 680's costing more than GTX 770's and 280X cheaper than 7970's. AMIRITE!


HD 7970.....HD 7970 GHz Edition....R9-280X
Which one of these isn't official ?


Well if its a case of "who rebadges last wins" then firstly, it's a piss poor competition either way, and secondly the GK110 rebadges aren't going to debut before the R9-290X...unless AMD continue delaying until they can bundle the card with Duke Nukem Forever II

You smell that? Do you smell that? Hyperbole, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning.

Meanwhile, back on Planet Objective...
You like proprietary bs one make standard's?
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#25
MxPhenom 216
Corsair Fanboy
by: btarunr
Educated guess: It's a GTX Titan with lower clocks and 3 GB of memory.
by: radrok
Good guess, makes for a good chip salvaging strategy.
And hopefully keep compute FP32/FP64 and all that enabled :)
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