Tuesday, May 13th 2014

$2,999 Price of GeForce GTX TITAN-Z Not Justifiable: Review

Here's why NVIDIA still hasn't launched the GeForce GTX TITAN-Z at the $2,999 price-point it so boldly announced at GTC 2014 - it's not worth its price by a long shot, at least not when stacked up against the Radeon R9 295X2, according to a review published by Hong Kong based print magazine E-Zone. In most tests, the two are evenly matched, with the R9 295X2 even outperforming it by a significant margin in some. In tests where the GTX TITAN-Z leads the R9 295X2, the lead isn't significant, at least nowhere close to justifying its price. The only way NVIDIA can sell the GTX TITAN-Z, if these numbers hold true, is by delivering on its 375W TDP figure.

The review finds that a system running a single GTX TITAN-Z draws 33W less power than the same system running two GTX 780 Ti cards in SLI, and 60W less power than the same system running a single R9 295X2 (tested at FireStrike Extreme load). Unless you plan on future-proofing yourself for the next decade, the lower power draw doesn't justify the $1,500 higher price. So what explains the delay in launching the GTX TITAN-Z? Either a redesign with higher clocks (and proportionately higher power draw), or development of faster drivers.


Source: LinusTechTips Community
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82 Comments on $2,999 Price of GeForce GTX TITAN-Z Not Justifiable: Review

#1
GhostRyder
Well anyway either way the Titan-Z was a flop and Nvidia is still going to have to release something eventually. It will come and then we can actually see what they are going to do.

In the end, both cards are pricey, however it still comes down to price to performance and the form factors that cards like these would work in. Dual GPU cards are best when they fit into small machines, fit in a 2 slot width for easy quad access (Since more Motherboards have only 2 PCI-E 16 slots available), or can be used in a way to cram into a specific function machine (render house for instance).

We will get a revision probably by the end of the month, otherwise it will likely just be dropped and never spoken of again though that route would be filled with alot of questions so im more thinking that by June we will have something.
Posted on Reply
#2
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
by: TheMailMan78
Who said anything about PC gaming? I said GAMING AS A WHOLE.
That is still your opinion. I happen to agree with you though but that is because we are both of similiar age and similiar life situations (kids,married,jobs and have been gaming since the days before nintendo). I don't have to tell you this, but when you get older your tastes are more refined. Gaming is just one aspect where we need more out of a game than we did 10 years ago. Not just because of time constraints or even budget constraints but because we are older and wiser and are looking deeper into everything we do. It all comes back to wisdom through age. We want more out of life even if that means something as silly as a video gaming needing multiple layers to keep us interested.
Posted on Reply
#3
TheMailMan78
Big Member
by: Easy Rhino
That is still your opinion. I happen to agree with you though but that is because we are both of similiar age and similiar life situations (kids,married,jobs and have been gaming since the days before nintendo). I don't have to tell you this, but when you get older your tastes are more refined. Gaming is just one aspect where we need more out of a game than we did 10 years ago. Not just because of time constraints or even budget constraints but because we are older and wiser and are looking deeper into everything we do. It all comes back to wisdom through age. We want more out of life even if that means something as silly as a video gaming needing multiple layers to keep us interested.
I can buy that.

My point is there used to be a lot more innovation in gaming across the board. The industry right now feels a lot like 1983 did before the crash in 84. I notice this because I am older. When the original Xbox dropped along with the PS2 games just had better craftsmanship. The problem is the craftsmanship is gone and its like they are cutting corners on old tech now. Developers have less power and publishers control everything. Carmack left id. "B" left Epic. There is a lot to be said in that.
Posted on Reply
#4
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
by: TheMailMan78
When the original Xbox dropped along with the PS2 games just had better craftsmanship.
I agree there is less craftsmanship in games today than say 10 years ago. It makes sense though because today everything (furniture,clothing,houses) all lack craftsmanship. That is what our mass market, gotta have it now society has been reduced to. Unless you pay a ton of money you are going to get run of the mill quality that breaks down quickly. It used to be that you did not have to pay an arm and a leg to afford something made by a craftsman.
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#5
Hilux SSRG
I wonder if at release they will change the name to Quadro to save face>?

It's DOA [at it's current price] and no amount of heatsink redesign and/or driver optimization will save it.
Posted on Reply
#6
Sony Xperia S
by: GhostRyder
Well anyway either way the Titan-Z was a flop and Nvidia is still going to have to release something eventually. It will come and then we can actually see what they are going to do.

In the end, both cards are pricey, however it still comes down to price to performance and the form factors that cards like these would work in. Dual GPU cards are best when they fit into small machines, fit in a 2 slot width for easy quad access (Since more Motherboards have only 2 PCI-E 16 slots available), or can be used in a way to cram into a specific function machine (render house for instance).

We will get a revision probably by the end of the month, otherwise it will likely just be dropped and never spoken of again though that route would be filled with alot of questions so im more thinking that by June we will have something.
No, in no way nvidia is under any type of obligation to release anything.

After the dust settles down and people calm down, the same will quickly begin to forget and nvidia will release ... uh ... nothing. :)
Posted on Reply
#7
GhostRyder
by: Sony Xperia S
No, in no way nvidia is under any type of obligation to release anything.

After the dust settles down and people calm down, the same will quickly begin to forget and nvidia will release ... uh ... nothing. :)
Well when you show something at a conference then pretend it does not exist it tends to send a mixed message and can be considered an odd mystery. I say they are obligated based on the fact that if they do choose to just forget it and move on it will look as though a sign of weakness (Or saying we could not compete). Plus by the sound of things many were already made and ready for deployment which still points at a release sometime (If nothing else maybe an OEM exclusive?).

It will be interesting, but I have a feeling we will see a Titan-Z.
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#8
TheinsanegamerN
by: 15th Warlock
I bought Titan on day one (two them actually) and continue to thoroughly enjoy them to this day, in fact the drive my triple monitor setup flawlessly, absolutely no regrets here :).

As for this debate, the truth is dual GPU cards are some of the worst products people can buy, be it AMD or Nvidia, they charge a 40-50% premium over the price of going for two separate cards despite such solutions being slower and bulkier.

Yes, AMD engineered the better dual GPU card, and priced it better, but you would be better off getting two 290Xs with aftermarket coolers and even save some money in the process.

Only 0.001% of all costumers really "need" these cards, people with small ITX rigs, or with huge rendering or mining farms, other than that pretty much every enthusiast out there should just need to see these cards as the freak ultra expensive Rolls Royce or Bentley of the PC world that they really are and settle for a couple of nice GT-Rs or 911s ;)

In other words, this debate can go on forever, but is it really gonna benefit any of us real PC enthusiast in the end? I highly doubt it. Will one team finally see the light and realize the other team has the better product? Impossible, not when people defend a brand name with religious zeal.

Open your eyes, both companies have a board of directors and trade to the public, as such they care only about profit, and are out there to get you hard earned dollars, is one more greedy than the other? Absolutely, you don't need anyone to tell you that, the fact that the card has not been released shows they are in panic mode. It's called hubris, Google it.

Anyways, the obvious headline had the obvious results and add revenue is what drives this site, so I guess it's all good as long as TPU and other hardware news outlets benefits from it, so carry on my dear green and red teams fans :toast:
there is only one thing that I can possibly think of to disagree with. the geforce 690. it was the same price as two 680s on release and ANY 690 could be slightly oced to get to dual 680 theoretical levels. one heck of a great card, and now going on 2 years old already.

edit:680s not 580s
Posted on Reply
#9
radrok
You guys obviously forgot which were the really good dual GPU cards, those like the 4870x2, 5970 and 6990s which costed just a hundred or couple more than their single GPU counterparts, not double the amount. :toast:
Posted on Reply
#10
HammerON
The Watchful Moderator
The only dual GPU card I owened was the GTX 295. Absolutley loved that card. Although it was based on the GTX 275 and not the top-end GTX 280, was still a great card IMO:)
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#11
Casecutter
If we realize Nvidia was on a original release date of May 8th, and OEM have had their aftermarket box's readied how many of these Titian Z are sitting around in what is a "finish state"? Perhaps 1,000-2,000 units, or think of it this way possibly some 4,000 "full-fledged" perfectly good GK110! Already surface mounted in expensive PCB’s do you think Nvidia could just dump them in a land-fill… sure it's a pittance amount of money. However, that's truly self-inflicted "egg on the face", to just walk away with a full-on miss-fire, they have lemons they absolutely need find a way to make lemonade.
Posted on Reply
#12
matar
nVidia $1999 is a perfect price with a little higher clocks.
I still wouldn't buy it to me the most I pay for a single GPU card the max is $499 and it has to be the best in its class and for a dual GPU is $999
Posted on Reply
#13
TheMailMan78
Big Member
by: matar
nVidia $1999 is a perfect price with a little higher clocks.
I still wouldn't buy it to me the most I pay for a single GPU card the max is $499 and it has to be the best in its class and for a dual GPU is $999
Perfect Price? I don't think so. The only reason GPU makers are selling GPUs for 2000 bucks is because they can. I remember with 999 seemed extreme and that's when the economy was good! Now its a deal. The R&D and MFG. has in NO WAY been increased 100% in less that 5 years. What you are seeing here is market prices from demand. I wouldn't be surprised if NVIDIA and AMD were not price fixing again. If you pay 2 grand for a GPU then you have more money than brains.
Posted on Reply
#14
Sony Xperia S
The perfect price for Titan Z is and will always be $ 799.

Everything else from Jhh and his teams would be silly shenanigans.

Guys, everything depends on you! If you pay, they will do whatever they "can". If you say 'No', that will stop them and at least would force them to think twice.

Of course, it's your decision which team to join. The good or evil!
Posted on Reply
#15
the54thvoid
Just to remind folks that the pricing thing goes way back to the GeForce 8800 GTX Ultra. And then after some 'normal' years, AMD released the new generation 7970 cards at a price of £450-550 (http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/33453-amd-radeon-hd-7970-launch-day-pricing-availability/). Then the 680 came out at the same give or take. Release prices have been inflated since then. And you have to remember, unless you're a budget operator, and neither AMD or Nvidia are, it can be seen as a bad business move to price your product too low. Many consumers question the worth of a product that seems too cheap.

There are no good guys here. Just companies that want your money. It's more than a little naive to suggest that one company is evil. One company simply charges more, it's that simple, except this time that policy went bananas.

The mentality of some people is rather nonsensical here. Go and argue about the pricing of motor cars or fridges. It's all the same.
Posted on Reply
#16
Fluffmeister
It is all a fuss about nothing, no one is being forced to buy anything, is the price of the Titan Z stupid? Yes.

Based on this review a couple of nice custom 780 Ti's for $1400 look like the obvious choice to me, 100 bucks saved still compared to the competition and no doubt great performance and features across all games. Nv aren't so bad after all.
Posted on Reply
#17
ensabrenoir
All in all the titian line is an elite line thats not suppose to add up or be rational..... Just a status symbol, a phallus nothing more. Solely for exclusivity of it..... here and here alone does titian Z make sense
Posted on Reply
#18
TheMailMan78
Big Member
by: the54thvoid
Just to remind folks that the pricing thing goes way back to the GeForce 8800 GTX Ultra. And then after some 'normal' years, AMD released the new generation 7970 cards at a price of £450-550 (http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/33453-amd-radeon-hd-7970-launch-day-pricing-availability/). Then the 680 came out at the same give or take. Release prices have been inflated since then. And you have to remember, unless you're a budget operator, and neither AMD or Nvidia are, it can be seen as a bad business move to price your product too low. Many consumers question the worth of a product that seems too cheap.

There are no good guys here. Just companies that want your money. It's more than a little naive to suggest that one company is evil. One company simply charges more, it's that simple, except this time that policy went bananas.

The mentality of some people is rather nonsensical here. Go and argue about the pricing of motor cars or fridges. It's all the same.
Cars and fridges haven't gone up 100% in less than a 10 year span. I don't care if people pay for such a card but there is zero justification for it.
Posted on Reply
#19
HumanSmoke
by: the54thvoid
Just to remind folks that the pricing thing goes way back to the GeForce 8800 GTX Ultra. And then after some 'normal' years, AMD released the new generation 7970 cards at a price of £450-550 (http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/33453-amd-radeon-hd-7970-launch-day-pricing-availability/).
That seems more an internet version of an urban legend. The previous series of cards from both Nvidia and ATI were edging towards $600 or more ever since discrete graphics became a two horse race. The X1800 Crossfire Edition ($600) and 7800GTX 512M ($650) spring to mind, but I think you'll find a fair number of SKUs at the $549 price point. The only real difference between the earlier cards and the 8800GTX/U was the fact that prices tumbled as new halo products emerged from both camps ( X850XT PE > X1800 XT and X1800 CFX Ed. / X1900 XTX / X1900 CFX Ed.....7800GTX > 7800GTX 512) so no one vendors card go too comfortable. The 8800GTX/U remained undisputed as the single GPU king for 20 months, and 15 months outright (until the HD 3870 X2 showed up). I think the reason that prices re-stabilized (with the exception of the initial $650 price tag on the GTX 280 for a whole week) was because the change of ownership at ATI necessitated an increased revenue stream- both from the initial outlay, huge write-downs, and haemorrhaging market share. Both companies were then hit with a price fixing judgement in September 2008. Both companies seem to have been playing a wait and see attitude for the most part when it comes to pricing.
by: the54thvoid
Then the 680 came out at the same give or take. Release prices have been inflated since then. And you have to remember, unless you're a budget operator, and neither AMD or Nvidia are, it can be seen as a bad business move to price your product too low. Many consumers question the worth of a product that seems too cheap.
There are no good guys here. Just companies that want your money. It's more than a little naive to suggest that one company is evil. One company simply charges more, it's that simple, except this time that policy went bananas.
Pretty much. One company steps over the line, and the other follows. I'd note that the competition between Nvidia and AMD is for the most part fairly cordial (much more so than the myriad of baying forum posters) - both companies dovetail performance to maintain a pricing structure that benefits both. When was the last price war ? (that didn't involve short-life salvage parts). The closest you get is a small pricing realignment when a vendors card exceed expectation, or cuts when inventory needs clearing.
by: the54thvoid
The mentality of some people is rather nonsensical here. Go and argue about the pricing of motor cars or fridges. It's all the same.
There's only so many outlets for ten-minutes-at-a-time crusades. :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#20
lilhasselhoffer
Let's see.

4960x processor - $1000
Asus Deluxe Mobo - $400
64 GB RAM - $500

Total - $1900

If you could get lucky, a couple of 780tis would set you back another grand.

Does that mean that I could either basically buy a high end system and a pair of 780ti cards, or get a single Titan Z?


I know Nvidea has a reputation for slightly better performance at a huge premium, but seriously? I thought a $1000 CPU was going to make people rage hard. This thread has been 1000% more rage than that, all built upon rumors. Consider me subscribing just to watch the fanboy rage fires burn.
Posted on Reply
#21
sweet
From Tomb Raider number in 295x2 reviews, this Chinese test probably was taken at 1080p resolution, which favors nVidia cards. However, TitanZ already made no sense here.

At higher res, where those cards are bought for, 295x2 will certainly outperform TitanZ in every test.
Posted on Reply
#22
Fluffmeister
If people are now happy spending 1.5K on graphics cards, I think nVidia have achieved their evil goal. :P
Posted on Reply
#23
The Von Matrices
by: TheMailMan78
Perfect Price? I don't think so. The only reason GPU makers are selling GPUs for 2000 bucks is because they can. I remember with 999 seemed extreme and that's when the economy was good! Now its a deal. The R&D and MFG. has in NO WAY been increased 100% in less that 5 years. What you are seeing here is market prices from demand. I wouldn't be surprised if NVIDIA and AMD were not price fixing again. If you pay 2 grand for a GPU then you have more money than brains.
I have no disagreement that the Titan-Z (and the Titan less so) are overpriced, but you're short-sighted if you think that manufacturing costs are not increasing. If all the reports are to be believed, for the first time in history, advanced processes (20nm and lower) are projected to have comparable or even higher costs per-transistor than the previous generation (28nm) throughout their entire life cycles. That means if you double the number of transistors on your 20nm GPU compared to the 28nm GPU, you actually have a GPU that costs nearly twice as much to manufacture. NVidia is ahead of the trend with it's $1000 GPUs, but the increased pricing is not completely attributable to corporate greed. I would be very surprised if AMD's next generation, high end, 20nm GPU was priced at less than $799 due to the increased manufacturing costs.
Posted on Reply
#24
Prima.Vera
by: TheMailMan78
Who said anything about PC gaming? I said GAMING AS A WHOLE. Everyone is so defensive of the damn truth they don't even read and comprehend the facts when it clashes with their ideology.

How many games do you buy full price a year now Rhino? One? Maybe Two? Gaming is sickly right now. Its just a fact. Buying a shit ton of Steam Sale Winter games half of which you will never play means NOTHING. Its the Summer months of block busters. How many does ANYONE on here pay full price for on day one. Last massive debut was Titan Fall.........that game sucked yet it was revered as awesome by the rags and kiddies online. It was just a simple FPS with a low player count on a 10 year old engine......BIG F#$KING DEAL.
Well, the thing is, to be honest, there are not so many games out there worth the price they are asking. I mean, common, I payed 15$ for Counter Strike, and is still one of the most played online games out there. Also there are the MMOs, like WOW or SWTOR, which are great and people still dump on them billions/year.
Point is, there are hundreds of games released now each month, but most of them are CRAP, pure garbage, so no wonder people are not buying games anymore.
Posted on Reply
#25
Xzibit
by: Casecutter
If we realize Nvidia was on a original release date of May 8th, and OEM have had their aftermarket box's readied how many of these Titian Z are sitting around in what is a "finish state"? Perhaps 1,000-2,000 units, or think of it this way possibly some 4,000 "full-fledged" perfectly good GK110! Already surface mounted in expensive PCB’s do you think Nvidia could just dump them in a land-fill… sure it's a pittance amount of money. However, that's truly self-inflicted "egg on the face", to just walk away with a full-on miss-fire, they have lemons they absolutely need find a way to make lemonade.
Release date was planned much earlier but continues to be pushed back.

Nvidia Announcing GeForce GTX TITAN Z
If you're looking for the ultimate in gaming power, GeForce GTX TITAN Z is your card. It arrives early April.
ASUS Announces GTX Titan Z Dual GK110 GPU Graphics Card
Taipei, Taiwan (29th April, 2014) — ASUS today announced the GTX Titan Z, a brand new high performance graphics card with dual NVIDIA® GeForce® graphics processing units (GPUs) and GPU Tweak for real-time graphics tuning. Additional features like 12GB GDDR5 memory and NVIDIA GPU Boost™ 2.0 provides users with the visual performance required for today’s cutting-edge games.
May 8th - E-Zone publishes article in e-magazine and e-tailers start listing.

KitGuru Nvidia vows to make GeForce GTX Titan Z available in coming months
“At the very high end, we announced our newest flagship GPU, the GeForce GTX Titan Z,” said Chris Evenden, the director of investor relations at Nvidia, during a conference call with financial analysts and investors. “This is the highest performance graphics card we have ever designed. The Titan Z will please both PC enthusiasts and CUDA developers and will be available in Q2.”
Cards had to be shipped to AIB for their packaging well before these dates.

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