Wednesday, February 28th 2007

No G8x AGP chip in the end?

Sad news for all AGP based motherboard owners (including myself) if it turns out to be true. The VR Zone is reporting that on the basis of their foundings NVIDIA won't develop a new AGP chip. The reason is that the G80 'simply' can't support it (though a bridge chip should implement the required compatibility if you ask me). That leads us all to hope for a R600 solution it seems.Source: VR Zone
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23 Comments on No G8x AGP chip in the end?

#1
jocksteeluk
the reason Agp cannot support the G80 chips is simply because it is not financially a viable option for Nvidia especially when you consider the possible surplus og agp 6 and 7 series cards still available.
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#2
WarEagleAU
Bird of Prey
No, its just that they want to make PCIe the standard and kill off AGP, even though they had a tremendous run on their. It costs more to produce both specs, rather than one continual one.
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#4
InfDamarvel
Ok Im going to use my brain. A lot of preople know that about 40-48% of the world still uses a agp machine. (Last statistics I heard)

I really doubt it just cant be support, we all know they could make a bridge chip for it just like they've done time after time before for things like the 6600GT PCI-E and 7600GT AGP.
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#5
Ketxxx
Heedless Psychic
by: Eric3988
Face it, AGP is dead.
My thoughts exactly. AGP has had its day now. While initially it was killed off before its time, its stuck around long enough to more than make up for that.
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#6
ktr
by: InfDamarvel
Ok Im going to use my brain. A lot of preople know that about 40-48% of the world still uses a agp machine. (Last statistics I heard)

I really doubt it just cant be support, we all know they could make a bridge chip for it just like they've done time after time before for things like the 6600GT PCI-E and 7600GT AGP.
I am still keeping my hopes up...

but it doesnt hurt to speed 100 bucks on a nice 939 pci-e board
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#7
kakazza
by: InfDamarvel
Ok Im going to use my brain. A lot of preople know that about 40-48% of the world still uses a agp machine. (Last statistics I heard)

I really doubt it just cant be support, we all know they could make a bridge chip for it just like they've done time after time before for things like the 6600GT PCI-E and 7600GT AGP.
How many of those guys care about G80? The million office computers (if not onboard)? Right...

Also, there are - imo - no good AGP boards out there for a recent system.
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#8
Bastieeeh
To put one's money where one's mouth is check out Valve's own hardware survey based on Steam data and head directly to 'Bus Types' way down. For NVIDIA based cards (I bet it's nearly the same with ATI cards) this chart states around 33% of the PC systems come with an AGP 8x card. And I am sure these people care and would really like to see a faster graphics card on the horizon.
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#9
spectre440
by: jocksteeluk

the reason Agp cannot support the G80 chips is simply because it is not financially a viable option for Nvidia
i disagree.

there are still plenty of people out there who might be in the market for an AGP card that's got some 'umph' to it and that want to squeeze some more life out of their systems before getting a new one... and any company that finds a way to cater to that segment of the graphic-card buying public can potentially see some decent money out of it.

now i'm no buisnessman or financial analyst, so i could be completely off base here, but i think that the companies (and the public) shouldn't be in such a rush to declare AGP dead and gone.
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#10
Ketxxx
Heedless Psychic
I will because I've done a paper on AGP vs. PCI-E, AGP is fully stretched today and with each new graphics card released loses more ground to PCI-E. If anyone really needs a decent AGP card there are more than enough options out there, probably the best option is the Gainward 7 series, I cant remember the exact model but they did make a fully fledged 7800 for AGP.
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#11
DaMulta
My stars went supernova
Gcube has a X1950XT with XTX core speed for AGP now.
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#12
AshenSugar
i would get the x1950pro agp personaly ket, it may not be native agp but its more full fetured :)
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#13
AshenSugar
wow xtx.....sweet bet the price is insain tho lol
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#14
Pinchy
The AGP cards are pointless - they will start to lose bandwith soon and are WAY overpriced. Nowadays, its cheaper to get a new mobo + PCIe card than get the same AGP card without a new mobo :p
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#15
rhythmeister
by: Pinchy
The AGP cards are pointless - they will start to lose bandwith soon and are WAY overpriced. Nowadays, its cheaper to get a new mobo + PCIe card than get the same AGP card without a new mobo :p
CPU's aren't free tho if yr using a Poo4/ socket A and can't find a board that'll take yr old cpu and has PCI-E! :laugh:

On the other hand, Athlons (Barton's particularly) still fetch decent money on fleabay if anyone's looking to change cpu AND mobo just to get gfx upgrade as I did with this system I'm on now. I still miss the old Epox with 2500 XP-M running at 2.3GHz but at least a mate has it and treats it right :cry:

I just got a socket A 2000 XP for £21 (last week) and a 3200 64 for £27 (this week) so it is kinda mad :confused:
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#16
kakazza
by: Bastieeeh
To put one's money where one's mouth is check out Valve's own hardware survey based on Steam data and head directly to 'Bus Types' way down. For NVIDIA based cards (I bet it's nearly the same with ATI cards) this chart states around 33% of the PC systems come with an AGP 8x card. And I am sure these people care and would really like to see a faster graphics card on the horizon.
"64 MB 123,038 46.96 %
128 MB 99,644 38.03 %"

Yeh, I mean, those guys seem totally excited about good graphics, especially since in the Top20 of the cards are like 16 crappy cards :P
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#17
ktr
by: kakazza
"64 MB 123,038 46.96 %
128 MB 99,644 38.03 %"

Yeh, I mean, those guys seem totally excited about good graphics, especially since in the Top20 of the cards are like 16 crappy cards :P
Well half life 2 is about 3 years old and the minimum recomend card from ati was the 9600xt. Also orignal half life and its mods are still very popular, and you dont need much than a 16-32mb graphic card.
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#18
Ketxxx
Heedless Psychic
Backward hacked compatability is never a good thing.
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#19
WarEagleAU
Bird of Prey
AGP may be heading towards its end, but its not completely dead. As someone said, tell that to the 48% still on AGP who cant afford to upgrade a mobo AND GFX
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#20
AshenSugar
by: ktr
Well half life 2 is about 3 years old and the minimum recomend card from ati was the 9600xt. Also orignal half life and its mods are still very popular, and you dont need much than a 16-32mb graphic card.
correction, halflife1 u dont need more then an 8mb videocard to play in opengl or d3d(ogl is better in my exp) my old rendition verite card was a beast in ogl :)

the reasion game makers still support old CRAP cards is because so many people have them, i would be wiling to guarntee that there are more so called gamers with gf mx seirse cards then there are with dx9 cards,and alot of them are the kind who get angery if they are forced to spend 60bucks on a new videocard let alone forced to change out other parts of a "perfectly good system" ROFL.

infact i know a guy with a gf4mx4000 who thinks his old p4 423 2.1gz system with pc133 should beable to game just fine and that the only reasion hes being forced to upgrade now is that game companys and hardware companys are conspiring to force more hardware sales lol
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#21
Pinchy
by: rhythmeister
CPU's aren't free tho if yr using a Poo4/ socket A and can't find a board that'll take yr old cpu and has PCI-E! :laugh:

On the other hand, Athlons (Barton's particularly) still fetch decent money on fleabay if anyone's looking to change cpu AND mobo just to get gfx upgrade as I did with this system I'm on now. I still miss the old Epox with 2500 XP-M running at 2.3GHz but at least a mate has it and treats it right :cry:

I just got a socket A 2000 XP for £21 (last week) and a 3200 64 for £27 (this week) so it is kinda mad :confused:
Yeah thats true...we gotta remember the guys with CPU's that cant support new mobos (forgot about that)

...and i was in that situation with my old socket 478 :p!

But then again, the X1950 PRO should be enough for AGP, mainly because, anything with more power will be CPU bottlenecked. If its an AGP system, its bound do only have a P4 (dont ask me about AMD...not too sure) or at best, a Celeron D....thats on the borderline of bottlenecking an X1950 PRO, let alone something better
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#22
AshenSugar
i would say the x1950pro would feel a bittleneck even with a 3gz p4, mainly because the p4 is very inefficent per clock, its great for folding or video encoding but for games.......its not so hot.

on the amd side, well a 1.6-1.8gz sempy64 can give simlar perf to most 478 3gz p4's but are normaly overclockable to 2.4+gz(depdns on how high the boards fsb can go), a 1.8-2gz athlon64 is more then a match for a 3gz p4(im just explaining whats ruffly equivlant) the 3000+ a64 is 1.8gz on socket 939 and am2 and 2gz on 754, but these chips can overclock on almost any board even ones with no vcore control, i managed 2.45gz on my foxconn board (sis chipset, no vcore or any volt controls infact) out of my 300+, bringing it to aprox 3700+ (3.7gz p4) performance.
got 2.65gz on my good 754 board out of the same chip.

p4 have a few good uses, data that needs streamed in a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 type order can be delt with VERY well, but data thats not quite so leniar isnt their strong suit.

p4/pd do 6icp (instructions per clock)
a64/k8 chips do 9icp

also a64 dirrectly communicate with the ram, no northbrige so latancy is VERY LOW, this makes even low end chips far more capable then you would expect commiing from nutburst...p4/pd cores where celerons have VERY little cache and show huge perf hits from it.

and i feel your pain about trying to find pci-e boards for 478 now tryed that for a client a while back all our supplyers could offer where 2 MATX ecs via chipset boards.....ewwww

in the end we set the guy up with an asrock ati 1600 chipset board+3800+ singel core(theydidnt have any 3500+s left at any local supplyers and he didnt want to wait for newegg) and a x1900gt(HIS rev1 he got localy that acctualy unlocked, we stuck a vf900 on it) overclocked the 3800+ to 2.87gz(was stable at 2.9 but i backed it off alittle just incase) using his p4 cooler(got one of hose brackets from thermalrite that lets you use p4and a64 heatsinks on am2 boards) hes quite happy he was able to keep his ram(2.5gb ddr1-533) and got a better videocard, the funniest part, the board+cpu+videocooler came out to very close to the same price a top end agp card would have, ofcorse he payed more due to having us do the upgrade for him, but we gave him a disscount trade in on his p4 that cut the setup time charge in 1/2(hes lucky im as fast at upgrades as i am :D )
hes emailed me 5 times with questions and to say how SHOCKED he is about how much faster his new system is then his 2.4c@3.2 because he had alwase been told that amd where slower then intel by his friends and relitives,but he was despret at the time and i guarnteed he would like what he got and if he didnt i would give him a p4 rig in trade.

he loves his new rig tho, when i jokingly asked in email if he was ready to trade me he acctualy thought i was seirous and went to great lingths to make it clear he was/is quite happy with the system and is now an amd fan(price for what he got board/chip was far cheaper then even a e6300 chip alone and games just as well)

blah, i talked to much.

agp is DEAD, i admited that when i did my last upgrade, everybody else needs to just accept it and move on, if you have to you can get a new amd690/695 based mobo and use that, the onboard gfx are 9700/9800 class for perf and overclock VERY well according to the reviews i have seen, one here a couple at other sites,(stocks like 400) 560-612 have been the max overclocks with normal passive chipset coolers, acctive i would guess would bring that up to mayb 650 range on a good board, bringing the onboard perf to a FAR better level.
and most of all, its matx chipset so its gonna be cheap to get a decent board, tforce690g
http://www.biostar.com.tw/t-series/products/socket%20AM2/TA690G%20AM2/product_details.php
decent looking board if the reviews of the chipsets onboard gfx are true, i just wonder if the onboard gfx will beable to work as a low end ppu when amd/ati bring out gpu as a ppu would be kool to me to beable to use the onboard for that even if the perf wasnt tops and i had to allocate 128-256mb system ram to it :)
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#23
Pinchy
Na why use onboard PPU when u can get a $50 X1300XT :D (AUD that is :p)
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