Saturday, January 26th 2008

HD DVD Believes Format War is Far From Over

Even with the tide apparently shifting in Blu-ray Disc’s favor, the HD DVD camp isn’t about to relent in the on-going high-definition format war. HD DVD still commands a significant portion of exclusive content and the most affordable hardware, giving the format a fighting chance. One part of HD DVD’s new strategy is on lower prices and selling the hardware’s ability to upscale regular DVD movies.Source: DailyTech
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100 Comments on HD DVD Believes Format War is Far From Over

#1
Ravenas
by: Water Drop
Name one thing that Sony did that was innovative.

The movie studios are not gonna put more than one movie on a disc anyway, so 15GB is more then enough. And HD-DVD also has a 30GB dual layer and a 51GB Triple-layer disc. They will not put more than one movie on a disc because they want to sell you them separately at ridiculously high prices and rip you off. And even when they do put more than one movie on a disc, it will be for possibly a Trilogy of some sort or a TV series. In that case they'll probably still charge you like your buying a bunch of discs and put it in a big box, but they'll be just one disc inside.
You're right Sony hasn't done anything innovative, Sony is the the worst, most evil company in the world. :laugh::laugh:
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#2
V lyx
as long as prices are cheap I dont care who wins or if it's over or not, heh.
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#3
Hitsugaya_Toushirou
by: imperialreign
they're about $200 USD online here, too - on average - which means that they're actually a bit cheaper than $200 AUD (based on current conversion rates).

But, if you go to buy one in store, though, they're priced higher (based on our regional prices): BestBuy $299; Circuit City $550+ (burner capable)
I think i might have misunderstood what you said since it sounded like you said $200 USD is cheaper than $200 AUD, which is not true since $200AUD = $170USD.
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#4
Mussels
Moderprator
by: Hitsugaya_Toushirou
I'm not sure where in Australia your in but i'm in AU as well and $700.00 appears to be quite expensive. Anyway, as i mentioned in my previous post, just get a blu-ray drive for your computer for $200 AUD.
those were set top boxes in stores. Not online prices for PC hardware.

by: mrw1986
85% of the people in this discussion are all fanboys against sony. Its quite hilarious.
85% of all techies hate sony. Its just a trend :P
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#5
Wile E
Power User
by: Water Drop
Blu-Ray disk might be the winner, but it's not the better format. It's plagued by too much DRM, ever changing standardized specifications, and the video quality is not quite up to par with HD-DVD. HD-DVD is the superior format, and it's sad to see that it's failing. The greedy MPAA and the movie studios are backing Blu-Ray because it has more consumer-screwing DRM then HD-DVD. And as we know the MPAA loves to screw us. Also Sony is a major player in both the MPAA and RIAA, making them without a doubt, the most evil corporation.

On a side note: I never thought I'd see "Sony" and "innovation" in the same sentence, but I have been proven wrong by this thread. Seriously what did Sony ever do that was innovative? The Six-Axis Controller that copied the Microsoft Sidewinder Freestyle Pro gamepad that was released in 1999?
There is no picture quality difference between Blu-ray and HD DVD, when you compare the same movie on both formats on the same TV. I own both, and 300, for instance, looks identical on either.

I don't like the drm on Blu-ray, but there's ways around that anyway. It's not like they'll ever construct a drm scheme that can't be cracked or bypassed.

by: Hitsugaya_Toushirou
Anyway, as Mussels mentioned (on page 1) there isn't much need of these discs since you can just watch videos on your computer. HD Videos uses the H.264 video compression so you can just watch HD videos in MKV container. Most videos are usually released on the internet in the form of avi, which uses Xvid or DivX video, or mkv, which uses the same codec as HD video; H.264. Current DVD players can play DivX and Xvid videos so if you wanted you can watch these on your tv or if you prefer higher quality at a smaller filesize but don't mind watching it on your computer then get h.264 video in mkv container.
mkv can contain almost any codec. Xvid, divx, wmv, h264, mpg1, etc., etc. It's merely a container, no specific codec is attached to it. Not picking, just pointing it out.
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#6
Mussels
Moderprator
he did say H264 'HD videos in MKV container' - no need to specify, he already did :P
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#7
Wile E
Power User
by: Mussels
he did say H264 'HD videos in MKV container' - no need to specify, he already did :P
"or mkv, which uses the same codec as HD" - that's the part I was mainly addressing. It's sounds like he saying mkv=H.264 in that sentence. I was just clarifying that it doesn't always=H.264 (although it is the most common used in the container)
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#8
laszlo
i don't care about BR or HDVD ;let the things settle down and buy then the format you like

but now for me and more than 50% (at least) of final consumer the old DVD format is enough;even when i watch a good dvd rip i can't see a big difference in quality so what's the point?
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#9
Mussels
Moderprator
by: laszlo
i don't care about BR or HDVD ;let the things settle down and buy then the format you like

but now for me and more than 50% (at least) of final consumer the old DVD format is enough;even when i watch a good dvd rip i can't see a big difference in quality so what's the point?
Quality of rips are one thing, depending on the size of your screen. I had a friend who said HD was bullshit and lies, because on his 17" CRT there was no difference - we looked, and it was true.

That said, you slap it on a high res screen (particulary a widescreen) and there is a massive difference. I have downloaded x264 anime which i own on DVD to see the difference, and the x264 versions just looked so much better. MPEG2 is just an old codec, and its not that great.
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#10
Triprift
If you wach hd on a hd or true hd display you can notice the difference with improved res and sound its just here in oz on tv there aint a great deal of hd shows. Dvd is fine but hd is the future just as dvd was when it superseded vhs.
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#11
Hitsugaya_Toushirou
by: Mussels
those were set top boxes in stores. Not online prices for PC hardware.
Yeah, i knew you were talking about set top boxes but after looking around i guess your price range was reasonable. By the way, I meant $200 from a computer store not online but that doesn't matter i guess.

by: Wile E
"or mkv, which uses the same codec as HD" - that's the part I was mainly addressing. It's sounds like he saying mkv=H.264 in that sentence. I was just clarifying that it doesn't always=H.264 (although it is the most common used in the container)
Sorry about the confusion. I was generalising since H.264 will only go into the mkv or mp4 containers but the mkv container is more commonly used since it has some useful features not found in mp4. and yes, mkv can contain any other video format since it's the most universal container, which can support any video and audio stream but usually it is unnecessary and there are probably other formats more fit for the video format (eg. MPEG2 video stream could be put in an mkv but it'll be more meaningful to put it in a m2v or mpeg container, or a Xvid or DivX video wouldn't need the extra b-frame support or the subtitle switch from mkv so avi is sufficient).
Also, i haven't found a video on the internet, which uses the mkv container without H.264 video except in some very rare cases where they put multiple subtitles to a non-h.264 video and they needed mkv's feature to switch between the subtitle languages.
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#12
Hitsugaya_Toushirou
Anyway, both HD-DVD and Blu-ray won't be too great once UHDV, Ultra High Definition Video, is out since both these discs don't have the capacity. So if you keep waiting and waiting to buy your HD stuff then it'll be outdated before you know it. They've had UHDV working since 2003 so once some company gets a large enough compact capacity at a reasonable cost then this will be utilised since this is how HD worked, it never came into the market until these discs were available to consumers.

Well, personally i'm not planning on getting HD players anytime soon since h.264 video on my computer is good enough. Also, Mussels mentioned x264 anime but he probably meant h.264 anime encoded with x264, which is the best free h.264 encoder. (Most anime are released in H.264 and Xvid but i always go for h.264 since it's smaller and better quality... Xvid ones are only useful for people who watch it on their DivX supported DVD players)
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#13
Rava6e
by: flashstar
Remember folks, Sony has never won a format war.

Remember Betamax, minidiscs, UMD's, memory sticks, etc. Really, sony has only been successful at formats that are integral parts of their hardware.
And those damn CDs. They havent been very succesful.
Get a clue, from specs Blu-Ray is better than HD-DVD.

And to the guy that called sony the most evil company in the world, uh, MS ? Hello. Bill might contribute money to some good things, but he always gives money away to stuff he never wants you to know about, look into it.
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#14
Triprift
Yeah and Betamax was actually the better format than vhs.
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#15
Ravenas
by: Rava6e
And those damn CDs. They havent been very succesful.
Get a clue, from specs Blu-Ray is better than HD-DVD.

And to the guy that called sony the most evil company in the world, uh, MS ? Hello. Bill might contribute money to some good things, but he always gives money away to stuff he never wants you to know about, look into it.
Lol, there is always someone who doesn't understand sarcasm. :laugh:

I believe all corporations are just out to make a buck. None of them are really evil in my book, greedy maybe, but not evil.
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#18
Wile E
Power User
by: Hitsugaya_Toushirou
Anyway, both HD-DVD and Blu-ray won't be too great once UHDV, Ultra High Definition Video, is out since both these discs don't have the capacity. So if you keep waiting and waiting to buy your HD stuff then it'll be outdated before you know it. They've had UHDV working since 2003 so once some company gets a large enough compact capacity at a reasonable cost then this will be utilised since this is how HD worked, it never came into the market until these discs were available to consumers.

Well, personally i'm not planning on getting HD players anytime soon since h.264 video on my computer is good enough. Also, Mussels mentioned x264 anime but he probably meant h.264 anime encoded with x264, which is the best free h.264 encoder. (Most anime are released in H.264 and Xvid but i always go for h.264 since it's smaller and better quality... Xvid ones are only useful for people who watch it on their DivX supported DVD players)
xvid comes in handy for low powered computers too. Also wanted to point out that you can get h.264 into an avi.

But yeah, you seem to have a handle on encoding/transcoding, so I'll quit picking nits. lol.
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#19
error_f0rce
by: Ravenas
I believe all corporations are just out to make a buck. None of them are really evil in my book, greedy maybe, but not evil.
Agreed. I just don't see the need to play the morality card in an attempt to explain why companies try to make a profit. It's all business 101... and I don't think we should start branding shrewd business practices as "evil", as that simply has nothing to do with it. If we want to discuss business ethics, we can do that, but let's not confuse ethics with tactics.
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#20
Edito
I think that all we have to do is wait and see the end of format war and chose the best of both, we must stop saing things like Sony Blu-Ray sucks or HD-DVD sucks we all have preferences and we must respect the others preferences and accept or deny the tecnology what the giants like Sony and Toshiba has to offer...
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#21
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
Blu-Ray won, it is only a matter of time. All the Sony haters are idiots. Blu-Ray isn't just Sony, it is a large group of companies.

So what if their players can upconvert DVD movies to 1080p, they still look like DVD movies. My $30 standard DVD player upconverts DVDs, big freaking deal. An upconverted DVD still looks like shit compared to a HD format(either one).

People don't care that the player is $100 cheaper. Blu-Ray has more movies they want. Only having one exclusive studio isn't enough. HD-DVD is sunk.
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#22
Mussels
Moderprator
by: newtekie1
Blu-Ray won, it is only a matter of time. All the Sony haters are idiots. Blu-Ray isn't just Sony, it is a large group of companies.

So what if their players can upconvert DVD movies to 1080p, they still look like DVD movies. My $30 standard DVD player upconverts DVDs, big freaking deal. An upconverted DVD still looks like shit compared to a HD format(either one).

People don't care that the player is $100 cheaper. Blu-Ray has more movies they want. Only having one exclusive studio isn't enough. HD-DVD is sunk.
dont call sony haters idiots. sony has done some very stupid things in its time, and all you're going to do is start a flame war. Stick with real arguments such as your one about lack of movie titles - its quite a valid one.
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#23
Ravenas
FS Film just went Blu-ray exclusive, Sonic is about to go blu-ray exclusive. What's even more funny...In Germany, Sony is paying HD-DVD owners 150$ to trade in their HD-DVD players for Blu-ray. LOL :roll::rockout:
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#24
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
by: Mussels
dont call sony haters idiots. sony has done some very stupid things in its time, and all you're going to do is start a flame war. Stick with real arguments such as your one about lack of movie titles - its quite a valid one.
Your right, I phased that wrong. I should have said: Everyone that hates Blu-Ray because they think it is all Sony are idiots.
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#25
Mussels
Moderprator
by: newtekie1
Your right, I phased that wrong. I should have said: Everyone that hates Blu-Ray because they think it is all Sony are idiots.
I hate sony because of crap they have done in the past. Very dodgy marketing of their consoles (i've seen ads claiming they had better graphics, citing final fantasy games. every ad/movie was of a pre-rendered CUTSCENE and they always compared to real time rendered game footage for the comparisons)

Sony also had the rootkit virus on their music CD's.

Its not that i wont buy blu-ray - but i wont buy SONY. You just cant buy BR in australia without getting sony, and its insanely overpriced.
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