Tuesday, May 13th 2008

AMD Planning to Outsource CPU Production to TSMC

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) might be planning to outsource some of its CPU production to TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) in the second half of the this year it was reported today. This move will help AMD to clear some of its manufacturing equipment and help lower the company's operating costs.
Although Hector Ruiz, CEO of AMD did not mention any plans to outsource production during the company's recent investors conference, the industry sources revealed that TSMC has already started testing procedures for a SOI manufacturing process in order to land manufacturing orders for AMD's Fusion CPUs. The increase in outsourcing could allow AMD to sell off some of its manufacturing equipment and help lower the company's operating costs, noted sources at AMD's partners. AMD's current goals are to return to profitability in the first half of 2009 and to grab back a 30% worldwide market share by the second quarter in 2009, noted the sources.
Source: DigiTimes
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30 Comments on AMD Planning to Outsource CPU Production to TSMC

#2
jocksteeluk
TSMC do make quality chips but I would bet there will be differences between the European and American made chips and these because cheap always isn't cheerful.
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#3
longo213
TSMC makes their GPUS, IGPs and chipsets anyway, so it looks like logical step to me.
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#4
FreedomEclipse
~Technological Technocrat~
well so long as they aint paying their staff less then a cent a day to work in their fab plants i say go amd go!
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#5
Dangle
by: jocksteeluk
TSMC do make quality chips but I would bet there will be differences between the European and American made chips and these because cheap always isn't cheerful.
Ask Intel or Nvidia if this is the case.
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#6
WarEagleAU
Bird of Prey
I thought they were supposed to be doing this already? Or was those past reports about their gpu and igp lines?
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#7
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
"Real men have fabs"

Yeah right! :laugh:
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#8
candle_86
lol, AMD is pretty much saying where going broke, this is a last ditch effort have pity on us.
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#9
KBD
Well, this makes sense, they did say they were laying off some of their staff recently so i guess they think it would be cheaper to do it elsewhere. Though every AMD chip i owned is made in Malaysia i thought it was already outsourced to that country. As someone said above the main question is will they quality of AMD chips made in Tawain will be any less than they ones made by AMD's own fabs.
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#10
Rebo&Zooty
by: candle_86
lol, AMD is pretty much saying where going broke, this is a last ditch effort have pity on us.
nice fanboi bullshit post, you win the prize, *hands candle a had and shirt with the the phrase "im a prat" on them*


fact is that amd isnt going broke, im sure you really wish they where and that they would just die, but guess what, they wont, because amd has been in worse situations in the past and didnt die from it, if theres one thing you can say about amd, its a survivor.

now as to the story, im pretty sure this dosnt mean they are closing their own fabs or selling them, they are likely gearing up to bring GPU production or at least PART of the gpu production IN HOUSE, also this move will allow amd to move to 45nm or whatever on their fabs that they havent yet transissioned to 45nm.

look at the past, this isnt the first time amd has outsorced cpu production, and ati alwase outsorced it, i know amd's plan eventuly is to get everything they can in house, most likely having these new cpu's made by tsmc is cheaper then having more complex gpus made by them(i would assume that tsmc charges based on die size and complexity not just per wafer/chip)

also i would bet you amd has a good number of orders from OEM's for their new chips already, as well as the fact that sales of b3 chips to users and OEM's are pretty good dispite what intel zelots will contend, 2 local parts sellers here told me that they cant keep the b3's in stock for more then a few days, these arent small parts sellers mind you, but the 2 largist system builder supplyers in the area.....

things are from my prespective looking up, not everybody cares what their superPI times are, they just want a system that will do the job at a reasonable price, and 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999^infinity% of computer users DONT OVERCLOCK, so it DOSNT MATTER WHO OVERCLOCKS BETTER.

personaly most users i deal with are eather totaly ignorant of what overclocking is, OR they think it will cause your computer to explode into a ball of fire thanks to those old intel adds against overclocking, wish i still had them, they would make a lulzy post, computers that somebody stuck in an oven to make the front melt, just so they coul imply that it was caused by overclocking HAHA.

well, to get back on topic, i think its a good move, i wonder if cray will be making an order for fussion chips ;)
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#11
echo75
by: jocksteeluk
TSMC do make quality chips but I would bet there will be differences between the European and American made chips and these because cheap always isn't cheerful.
what AMD chips are currently made in europe and america?
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#12
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: echo75
what AMD chips are currently made in europe and america?
There's a fab in Dresden, Germany. There's no fab in the US (though AMD's corporate HQ is in Sunnyvale, CA called OneAMD Place and many confuse it to be a fab).

There's another fab in Singapore though reports suggest it's down and is undergoing upgrades to produce 45nm parts.

If they outsource production to TSMC, both chip fabrication and assembly would take place in the same facility. The way things are now, you have wafers from Dresden flying to either China or Malaysia where they're assembled into a PGA/LGA package. With this outsource, AMD goes fab-less, like NVidia. It's not that AMD isn't able to meet a market demand with its current fabs that they've decided to outsource production, but that they're going broke and not able to run fabs, not to forget escalating salaries in the EU.
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#13
Rebo&Zooty
by: btarunr
There's a fab in Dresden, Germany. There's no fab in the US (though AMD's corporate HQ is in Sunnyvale, CA called OneAMD Place and many confuse it to be a fab).

There's another fab in Singapore though reports suggest it's down and is undergoing upgrades to produce 45nm parts.

If they outsource production to TSMC, both chip fabrication and assembly would take place in the same facility. The way things are now, you have wafers from Dresden flying to either China or Malaysia where they're assembled into a PGA/LGA package. With this outsource, AMD goes fab-less, like NVidia. It's not that AMD isn't able to meet a market demand with its current fabs that they've decided to outsource production, but that they're going broke and not able to run fabs, not to forget escalating salaries in the EU.
could you post some proof of your statements that amd is closing or selling its fabs?

i see they are selling equipment, but no mention of selling the fabs themselves, or of closing them down.

and amd has a fab in texas last i checked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpK6zPZMYsg
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#14
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: Rebo&Zooty
could you post some proof of your statements that amd is closing or selling its fabs?
It's plain commonsense, if AMD outsources its fabrication to TSMC, why would it run its fabs in Germany and Singapore? Are AMD processors selling like hot-cakes that they're not able to meet market demands that they decided to step up output capacity? No. It's less expensive to give your production to TSMC. Now, if they outsource manufacturing to TSMC, commonsense also suggests they won't run fabs parallel and end up spending more.

Again, this outsource can be a temporary thing, because the Singapore fab is undergoing upgrades, maybe the Dresden fab will undergo upgrades while TSMC plays babysitter.
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#15
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: Rebo&Zooty
and amd has a fab in texas last i checked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpK6zPZMYsg
That's a Non-volatile flash memory fab, they don't fab processors there. A fab such as the one in Austin exists in my city, Hyderabad too.

Says Wikipedia:
AMD maintains major design facilities in Fort Collins, CO, Sunnyvale, CA, Austin, TX, Boxborough, MA, Bangalore, India, and Hyderabad, India. With the acquisition of ATI Technologies, company gained ownership over major design facilities in Markham, ON and Santa Clara, CA.
Check your processor's box, it says "diffused in Germany or Singapore, assembled in China or Malaysia" which means it's fabbed in Dresden or Singapore, assembled in China/Malaysia.
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#16
Rebo&Zooty
your also failing to note that amd's not just a cpu maker anymore, they also have to make gpu's and chipsets on top of their other non pc ventures, they said when they bought ati that they would have to outsorce ati chips at first, but that they wanted to bring them in house eventuly, in this case it could very well be that its cheaper to have TSMC make the cpu's and their own fabs that they are already running make the more complex and expencive to produce gpu's, as well as the far less complex to make chipsets.

your still thinking/talking like the only thing amd makes/sells are cpu's, thats not been true since i can remmber, back in the day amd made controler chips for addin cards, as well as eletronic devices, i had a vhs player that had an AMD chip in it......

amd's CPU venture isnt fairing well in the RETAIL market, but they are still selling well to oem's and server makers dispite the tlb bug crap(mostly because the servers they where used in could be kernal patched to fix the bug with little perf hit compared to the bios and windows fixes.

yeah, amd's not the star they where when the athlon/athlonxp where kicking intel around, but they arent in as dier staits as many alarmists would have you think, i know people who work for amd, and yes some people have been layed off, but intels been quietly laying off people around here, OR laying them off from one job/venture and hireing them at another(basickly a transfer), i have personal friends who work for intel( hell i can drive to one of intels portland offices in like 10min or less baring traffic problems.)

and im not saying amd isnt hurting from the loss of sales, BUT they arent hurting as bad as you and others imply/belive, amd has been in this possition in the past, they operated at a lost on the cpu side for years.

oh and b4 you say "they never should have bought ati, if they hadnt spent all the $ on buying ati maby they could have payed to develop a decent chip" amd knew what they where doing and EXPECTED TO TAKE A LOSS/HIT from it, they KNEW that they would be in the red for a while due to buying amd, BUT they also got more contracts from OEM's because they now have THEIR OWN CHIPSETS AGAIN, and oems prefer to buy a bundle deal, chipset/cpu/exct from the same company, hence most OEM intel machiens use INTEL CHIPSETS or even boards made by intel.

i see amd thinking like the japnese, see unlike americans and western cultures where we want the big win/giant advancement every time something comes out and as offten as possable, the japnese dont look at "how much can we make today/this week" they look at "how much can we make in the next 5 years" and "will doing this have advanteges down the road"

western cultures, and yes from my experiance with indians they have been VERY westernized, tend to want the big win every time, they dont have the vission to look 1-2-3-4-5-10 years down the road, hence alot of the problems we have in this world.

the japnese kick our western asses in eletronics for this very reasion, insted of alwase going for the quintum leap they just do a shit load of small enhancments refining and advancing their designs as they sell stuff based on these enhancments, also by doing small enhancments more often insted of large upgrades in leaps it keeps cost down.

very diffrent culture and mind set from what you find in the us and other westernized cultures.

and i still want proof of your statements, links showing them closing fabs or selling them, credible proof that your not just "taking out your ass"
Posted on Reply
#17
Rebo&Zooty
by: btarunr
That's a Non-volatile flash memory fab, they don't fab processors there. A fab such as the one in Austin exists in my city, Hyderabad too.

Says Wikipedia:



Check your processor's box, it says "diffused in Germany or Singapore, assembled in China or Malaysia" which means it's fabbed in Dresden or Singapore, assembled in China/Malaysia.
didnt say they where making out chips here, just that they have fabs in other places.

also i remmber reading that amd wanted to build a fab in newyork for 45nm production.....im sure that was before the crunch tho, so it probbly never got built.....
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#18
candle_86
by: Rebo&Zooty
could you post some proof of your statements that amd is closing or selling its fabs?

i see they are selling equipment, but no mention of selling the fabs themselves, or of closing them down.

and amd has a fab in texas last i checked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpK6zPZMYsg
the fab in Austin hasn't made chips since the AXP days
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#19
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: Rebo&Zooty
didnt say they where making out chips here, just that they have fabs in other places.

also i remmber reading that amd wanted to build a fab in newyork for 45nm production.....im sure that was before the crunch tho, so it probbly never got built.....
Point remains, you put up that post "they have fabs in Austin" just to tell me they manufacture CPU's there as well, the fact is they don't (anymore).

I'll use reverse psychology, ask you, give me proof that AMD will fab processors in Dresden/Singapore while also letting TSMC manufacture. The most logical explanation I already gave, that TSMC will fab AMD processors while Dresden FAB36 upgrades for manufacturing 45nm parts. To upgrade, you need money, and that money comes from the AMD processors you let TSMC manufacture, since TSMC already has facilities for 45nm fabrication and that it announced it's accepting designs from companies.
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#20
Rebo&Zooty
btarunr as the one who made the initial assertion it falls to you to proove your not just "taking out your ass" as my grandfather would say.

im not trying to attack you, but your assertion that amd is gonna close fabs and go fabless has no backing, i have looked, i also have asked, really amd has ALOT going on, gpu, cpu, chipset as well as chips for aplications other then the PC market, no point in argueing with you tho, at least from what have read of your posts you only have bad things to say about amd/ati, duno why you post in amd/ati threds, other then to tell everybody they suck and are dieing so u can then argue with them :)
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#21
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: Rebo&Zooty
btarunr as the one who made the initial assertion it falls to you to proove your not just "taking out your ass" as my grandfather would say.

im not trying to attack you, but your assertion that amd is gonna close fabs and go fabless has no backing, i have looked, i also have asked, really amd has ALOT going on, gpu, cpu, chipset as well as chips for aplications other then the PC market, no point in argueing with you tho, at least from what have read of your posts you only have bad things to say about amd/ati, duno why you post in amd/ati threds, other then to tell everybody they suck and are dieing so u can then argue with them :)
A. Nowhere did I say they will close a fab.

B. I said, they might not run their fabs simultaneous to letting TSMC manufacture.

C. Also that this could just be temporary, because their fabs are undergoing upgrades and they could let TSMC manufacture meanwhile.


AMD isn't failing, it still holds on to a niche market and that they would want to upgrade their fabs to 45nm to compete with Intel better, meanwhile, it could cut manufacturing costs by outsourcing manufacturing to TSMC.
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#22
Rebo&Zooty
oh snap
Sorce
Even though Advanced Micro Devices did not start construction of its Fab 4x this spring, as it was expected, the world’s second largest supplier of x86 central processing units (CPUs), said at a news-conference that its plans to build a semiconductor manufacturing facility were “moving along”.


“There is no ‘plan B’. We are focused on this area as far as the next place to develop a manufacturing facility, but there are many factors that are involved in that kind of decision,” said AMD’s director of global affairs, Ward Tisdale, reports News10 channel.

Advanced Micro Devices is currently considering its asset-smart strategy under which the company reportedly plans to reduce its investments into manufacturing. Actual details of the strategy are not clear, but some analysts believe that AMD plans to form joint-venture (or joint-ventures) with contract semiconductor manufacturers to produce chips for AMD and others at facilities controlled by AMD.

AMD has time till July 2009 in which AMD can choose to initiate the building of a new 300mm wafer fabrication facility in Saratoga County, New York. AMD has already received $650 million grant from the authorities to prepare for construction. The incentives offered by New York include a $500 million grant for construction, $150 million in R&D subsidies to be used over 5 years, and $250 million tax rebate.

AMD anticipates the need for a new facility and has selected the Luther Forest Technology Campus as an ideal site. Similar to AMD’s other fabrication facilities, construction of the building is expected to take about a year with another year needed for the installation of equipment and tools. The project has the potential to directly create approximately 1200 new jobs, along with thousands of indirect jobs through supporting construction and infrastructure projects. According to AMD, about 5500 new jobs in total will be created thanks to the Fab 4x.

Earlier AMD said that plant will initiate manufacturing in 2010 and will allow AMD to increase manufacturing capacities by 50% when compared to expected 2008 level. However, it is now almost clear that the Fab 4x will hardly initiate production in two years from now
dosnt sound like amds selling off their fabs or closing them down to me.........
Director: AMD is "Focused on" Region

Posted: May 15, 2008 10:17 AM




Advanced Micro Devices still hasn't entirely committed to building in the Luther Forest tech park, but last night, officials from AMD talked once again with residents about their plans for the $3.2 billion dollar plant in Malta.

AMD also focused on a study showing that a $650 million dollar investment by the state would create 5,500 new jobs.

NEWS10's Nicol Lally reports on what this could mean for AMD's future in Saratoga County.

A large crowd packed into the Saratoga Hilton hotel to hear the latest progress in the long discussed plans to bring a chip plant to the Luther Forest Technology Campus. Advanced Micro Devices, better known as AMD, says plans to build in the Capital Region are moving along.

"We've had nothing but tremendous support from the Saratoga County community, Albany, at the state level, the local level. We've been very welcomed here," said AMD's Director of Global Affairs, Ward Tisdale.

Coming into question, however, is whether or not AMD is committed to the area. The company has yet to officially stake its claim in Malta, but that doesn't necessarily mean the company is looking elsewhere.

"There is no ‘plan b'," Tisdale said, "we are focused on this area as far as the next place to develop a manufacturing facility, but there are many factors that are involved in that kind of decision,"

And it's a decision that could have a tremendous economic impact in upstate New York, bringing thousands of jobs, as well as helping to boost local real estate and attract other high tech companies. Still, those at the meeting voiced concern over AMD's stability after recent reports surfaced over a possible company restructuring.

Nevertheless, Advanced Micro Devices has until July of 2009 to officially commit to the Luther Park site. Until then, the company says it plans to move forward with the permit and legal process to ensure that when the final decision is made, the road will be clear to develop.
Sorce

EDIT: well your post come off as saying that, at least thats how i read them.... so hard to tell tone and intent over the net.....

meh, the quotes still stand.

as to niche market, its more then a niche imho, they arent on even footing with intel, just as no other software makers in even footing with microsoft, but that dosnt mean they dont have their own share of the market, niche to me means they only have a very small slect user base, like the true user base of a 1gb 8400/8500/3450/exct card, for CAD users its acctualy a good card, but for the rest of us.....its crap.......thats a true niche market.......

edit 2: forgot to add, if you want to see a true niche market company, look at sun microsystems, their cpu's and os are a VERY niche market based product :)
Posted on Reply
#23
thoughtdisorder
by: Rebo&Zooty
oh snap
Sorce


dosnt sound like amds selling off their fabs or closing them down to me.........


Sorce

EDIT: well your post come off as saying that, at least thats how i read them.... so hard to tell tone and intent over the net.....

meh, the quotes still stand.

as to niche market, its more then a niche imho, they arent on even footing with intel, just as no other software makers in even footing with microsoft, but that dosnt mean they dont have their own share of the market, niche to me means they only have a very small slect user base, like the true user base of a 1gb 8400/8500/3450/exct card, for CAD users its acctualy a good card, but for the rest of us.....its crap.......thats a true niche market.......

edit 2: forgot to add, if you want to see a true niche market company, look at sun microsystems, their cpu's and os are a VERY niche market based product :)
Welcome (back?) to TPU. We try not to be combative here, just "spirited".:toast:
Posted on Reply
#24
Rebo&Zooty
well i was already banned today because somebody reported me as a spamer after only seeing one of my posts in GN, had he looked at my post history first he would have seen that i had posted a bunch in news topics.......had the admin looked b4 hitting the spamer bann button he would have seen i wasnt a spambot....
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#25
longo213
Quite a debate here, about... well, not a big story. AMD allready outsourced lot of CPUs to Chartered, TSMC is another story - as is Fusion, which (based on what we know about it's concept and target area) is the reason why it does makes perfect sense to me to outsource it to company which has a great experience and yields with production of GPU/IGP and I/O chips for AMD.
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