Saturday, July 5th 2008

PhysX on Radeon 'Saga': What we Missed

Amidst this whole 'nGOHQ' saga, and us getting astonished at the way things turned out, here's what we missed:

NVIDIA is in talks with AMD over a possible technology-transfer agreement over PhysX, say industry sources in Hong Kong. In a not-so-recent article by HKEPC, it is said:

"The graphics card industry pointed out that while AMD Open Table support of Havok, but Havok has been the acquisition of Intel, Havok and PhysX is the same competition on the product, AMD has its own wishful thinking, by NVIDIA and Intel in physics engine Competition and get access to two major physics engine authorization, two competition is very likely to become the largest beneficiary of AMD." (Chinese, translated by Google into English).

AMD and NVIDIA are in discussions over a common ground that allows AMD to use the PhysX API with its products. This follows the news of AMD optimizing their hardware for Havoc. There are two implications to this:
  • AMD gets to an agreement with NVIDIA and ropes in PhysX, leaving their graphics processors optimized for both physics APIs, thereby making buying a Radeon product a better option over GeForce. A short-sighted look at things to come.

  • AMD plays risky, adopts PhysX, NVIDIA's developer relation programs popularize the PhysX API beyond Havoc (since now anyone can use it), eliminate Havoc, then hold a dominating position over AMD since PhysX would then become an indispensible technology for AMD, could affect the course of major corporate policies for AMD. A long-sighted look at things to come.
Whether AMD embraces PhysX at an official level remains to be seen, a lot is at stake. The industry never saw so much of a gamble because of a piece of software that makes crates break, grenade sharpnel fly and cloth tear more accurately.With inputs from HKEPC
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31 Comments on PhysX on Radeon 'Saga': What we Missed

#1
Cold Storm
Battosai
I must say Bta, that was one hell of a write up! Really got ya thinking on this all!
It's a huge gamble no matter what you look at it. Nvidia is doing the biggest because of the fact that they are showing their competitor their pride and joy. But, in ways helping them, because you never know what they can learn from ATI themselves.
We'll be gaining from this subject, that we will. But, at what cost will we have it? One company of video cards in the future?
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#2
EastCoasthandle
ATI/AMD does hold the chips in the short term. However, if they actually consider this they should make Nvidia re-code all present and future TWIMTBP games to scale better with ATI cards in single and CF mode. Also, force them to support DX10.1 in ALL TWIMTBP games both present and feature. But ATI/AMD should give them a time line to get it done or else the deal is off!

So, if they are in a meeting ATI/AMD does have a short term bargaining chip they can use to get things rolling. In the long term ATI/AMD is in the position to play double agent between PhysX and Havok.

If Nvidia wants to embrace ATI/AMD then it should be a full embrace. Nvidia gets ATI/AMD full support with Cuda, ATI gets Nvidia full advertising support. This IMHO is a even trade! No ifs, ands or buts about it.
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#3
panchoman
Sold my stars!
hahahaha very nice play by amd.. getting cuda(wasn't this already announced a few days ago? or i just predicted the future a few days ago 0_o) from nvidia, since nvidia wants to make cuda more popular in order to conter intel.. but then amd starts double playing it, taking in havoc, and seeing which one it wants, and possibly putting both things into its gpu... screwing over both intel and nvidia.. though i bet they'll be forced to pick one.. but double dealing will definently help them pick the best deal.. well played amd.. well played.
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#4
Gizmic
i know that hong kong belongs to china but its best that you call it hong kong :D
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#5
WarEagleAU
Bird of Prey
A simply amazing turn of events if I do say so myself. AMD has really stepped it up with everything. I think this is just a first few steps and eventually, the biggest thing of theirs, their cpus, will come full circle and be right back up there on top if not the number 1 chip again :D.

Seriously, this is awesome stuff though. To think that know we get Physx (instead of the long ago post of ATI having a 3rd video card just for physics) using Nvidias tried and true R&D.
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#6
lemonadesoda
Thank heavens you quoted the source! (Chinese, translated by Google into English). Before I read that, I thought you had eaten too much curry!
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#7
eidairaman1
My Honest Opinion, Id rather See AMD support Both standards, incase Nvidia Tries to Pull Support for Physx/CUDA. That would leave them with Options of adaptability, Because I still smell a Big Dirty Rat from nvidia.
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#8

isn't it like y intel gave AMD x86 architecture ?

although i may be wrong, dont know the history that much. if someone could enlighten me .
#9
imperialreign
WOW . . .


I mean, damn, if nVidia isn't feeling truly pressured to make some drastic moves recently . . .


this is wonderful news for us consumers, though.


But, I think this move will greatly benefit AMD/ATI in the long run, while allowing nVidia to shoot themselves in the foot . . . my reasoning being that if nVidia are hoping that they can push market support for PhysX enough to run out Havok and Intel, we have to take into account they'd be pushing against Intel while AMD/ATI would still be supporting Havok as well . . . AMD/ATI stands to become the dominant physics capable hardware here over either Intel or nVidia, which will only continue to benefit them further down the road, and could potentially hurt nVidia hardware sales as well.


Either way, no matter what the red camp decides to do, they can't go wrong :toast:
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#10
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: Gizmic
i know that hong kong belongs to china but its best that you call it hong kong :D
Done.

by: lemonadesoda
Thank heavens you quoted the source! (Chinese, translated by Google into English). Before I read that, I thought you had eaten too much curry!
:roll:
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#11
Cold Storm
Battosai
by: imperialreign
WOW . . .


I mean, damn, if nVidia isn't feeling truly pressured to make some drastic moves recently . . .


this is wonderful news for us consumers, though.


But, I think this move will greatly benefit AMD/ATI in the long run, while allowing nVidia to shoot themselves in the foot . . . my reasoning being that if nVidia are hoping that they can push market support for PhysX enough to run out Havok and Intel, we have to take into account they'd be pushing against Intel while AMD/ATI would still be supporting Havok as well . . . AMD/ATI stands to become the dominant physics capable hardware here over either Intel or nVidia, which will only continue to benefit them further down the road, and could potentially hurt nVidia hardware sales as well.


Either way, no matter what the red camp decides to do, they can't go wrong :toast:
That is true. No, matter what, Red does come out good in the end. For all we know, if AMD/ATI does decide to go with PhysX then Intel might say we have Havoc and F you... Then that might hurt them... It's a big circle. And, it might be a big circle with links of foots up their butts.
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#12
imperialreign
by: Cold Storm
That is true. No, matter what, Red does come out good in the end. For all we know, if AMD/ATI does decide to go with PhysX then Intel might say we have Havoc and F you... Then that might hurt them... It's a big circle. And, it might be a big circle with links of foots up their butts.
TBH, I don't think Intel is in anymore of a position to drop AMD/ATI from Havok, not if Intel wants to be able to make a stand against PhysX.

Sure, Intel can have a whole CPU core dedicated to physics processing, but it still can't do it anywhere near as efficient as a GPU could. Havok would start becoming burdensome and overbearing to use if you had to rely on a CPU core; for Intel to be able to compete on a hardware level, they need ATI GPU support.
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#13
Cold Storm
Battosai
by: imperialreign
TBH, I don't think Intel is in anymore of a position to drop AMD/ATI from Havok, not if Intel wants to be able to make a stand against PhysX.

Sure, Intel can have a whole CPU core dedicated to physics processing, but it still can't do it anywhere near as efficient as a GPU could. Havok would start becoming burdensome and overbearing to use if you had to rely on a CPU core; for Intel to be able to compete on a hardware level, they need ATI GPU support.
Yeah, you have a point there. It's just so soon in the thought process... All we can do is sit here with popcorn and watch.
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#14
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
We can't help but feel sorry for AMD FireStream and its own GPGPU architechture. CUDA will kill it.
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#15
Cold Storm
Battosai
by: btarunr
We can't help but feel sorry for AMD FireStream and its own GPGPU architechture. CUDA will kill it.
I forgot all about FireStream. IT doesn't look good at all for that. But, just like betamax and vcr, CD and tape, you won't know till it goes on and happens.
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#16
eidairaman1
ya apparently betamax was ahead of its time, picture clarity was higher, just that VHS became popular
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#17

by: eidairaman1
ya apparently betamax was ahead of its time, picture clarity was higher, just that VHS became popular
coz pr0n industry chose it ! :laugh:
#20
xfire
So, AMD is the can of whoop Ass that Nvidia is opening :laugh:
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#21
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: xfire
So, AMD is the can of whoop Ass thet Nvidia is opening :laugh:
....on itself.
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#22
xfire
by: btarunr
....on itself.
and it hopes to take Intel down along with itself, then Intel Nvidia merge to create 2 companies one can.
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#23
tigger
I'm the only one
So i guess you can get 50gb blue ray pr0n dics then :D viva la vhs.

was/is firestream any good? and have ati gone anywere with it or is it just a model.
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#24
KieranD
As far as i know licensing PhysX for use on ATi cards would be possible. I mean tech wise its easy to make drivers for ATi cards, Nvidia could make a lot of money and gain market share.

The only way Nvidia will make money from PhysX is to license it because the graphics drivers are free and there is no ppu to buy anymore.

Still id like to see a graphics card dedicated to physics, so you get get a lower model and use that for PhysX. Tri SLi you could have 2 good cards and a crappy one for PhysX.

If they License out Physx to other people they can make a bomb in cash, plus its easy to implement into games.
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#25
KieranD
sorry to be of topic but

lol amd used to manufacture intel cpus back 20-30 years ago, then they started to do there own cpus

there was evebn that socket that could accept intel or amd cpus.

i think they were more alike back in the day.

IBM and Motorola were big cpu player years ago, motorola had all sorts of cpus, they did the cpu for the NES
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