| Wednesday, August 27 2008 |
The transition of the K10 architecture by AMD to the 45nm silicon fabrication process is stirring up interesting revelations these days. First, it was about surprisingly low power consumption of the quad-core Phenom parts, and then about the overclocking headroom those 45nm parts provided, at least the engineering samples did so far. And now, news coming in that AMD could be resurrecting the "FX" series of extreme performance products. Over the past three or so years, the performance trail AMD products had over Intel's made it close to impossible for AMD to sell parts that provide performance tuning advantages such as unlocked FSB multiplier settings for a premium, like it did back when K8 reigned the performance segment. "Black Edition" chips made up for that deficit by providing consumers overclocking advantages while not charging a significant premium and at the same time, safeguarding the "FX" title, not letting it dilute.
Come AMD Deneb core and lot seems to be on offer. To begin with, unlike the Windsor core that had a maximum FSB multiplier of 16.0x, initial reports suggest the Deneb to sport a maximum 25.0x multiplier, 200 MHz x 25 = 5.00 GHz, with the FSB left to play with. Considering at 2.30 GHz the Deneb draws in 57.3 W (according to findings), it should still leave enough room for AMD to sell premium products clocked at high frequencies.
From Reviewage's findings, there seem to be two Phenom FX processors in the making. The numbering seems to take off where it last left at the Athlon64 FX 74. The two chips, Phenom FX 80 and Phenom FX 82 could be clocked at 4.00 GHz and 4.40 GHz respectively (stock speeds). An interesting statement is that at 4.00 GHz, the Phenom FX 80 should outperform an Intel Kentsfield core clocked at 5.00 GHz, implies it has to be faster than the Kentsfield on a clock-to-clock basis. This opens up an interesting debate on how these parts compare to the succeeding Yorkfield chips. This should also open gates for several models to enter the market at various clock speeds.
Source: Reviewage
Come AMD Deneb core and lot seems to be on offer. To begin with, unlike the Windsor core that had a maximum FSB multiplier of 16.0x, initial reports suggest the Deneb to sport a maximum 25.0x multiplier, 200 MHz x 25 = 5.00 GHz, with the FSB left to play with. Considering at 2.30 GHz the Deneb draws in 57.3 W (according to findings), it should still leave enough room for AMD to sell premium products clocked at high frequencies.
From Reviewage's findings, there seem to be two Phenom FX processors in the making. The numbering seems to take off where it last left at the Athlon64 FX 74. The two chips, Phenom FX 80 and Phenom FX 82 could be clocked at 4.00 GHz and 4.40 GHz respectively (stock speeds). An interesting statement is that at 4.00 GHz, the Phenom FX 80 should outperform an Intel Kentsfield core clocked at 5.00 GHz, implies it has to be faster than the Kentsfield on a clock-to-clock basis. This opens up an interesting debate on how these parts compare to the succeeding Yorkfield chips. This should also open gates for several models to enter the market at various clock speeds.
Source: Reviewage
User comments
intel sucks at shrinking the TDP didnt change from the northwood to the cedar mill
by: candle_86Well that was a while ago, and it's just like saying AMD/ATi were the first to go 55nm on their GPU's, dont mean a lot if they give out more heat than the 65nm opposition :p
intel sucks at shrinking the TDP didnt change from the northwood to the cedar mill
by: Tatty_Oneintel has also publicly said AMD has a better process so much so that intel never could have done something as complex as phenom on 65nm.
I want to beleive this..........I hope it's true.......I fear it isnt............... When Intel reduced their fabrication process to 45nm from 65nm on their quads, the TDP went from 95W .......to ........... 95W!!
Then again, what do I know? I just wont hold me breath.....cause I dont like turning purple! :rockout:
also look at AMD's die shrinks now 130nm 2ghz=90w 90nm 2.8ghz=90w 65nm 2.8ghz DC=65w 2.5ghz QC=125w
so it is possible for a huge TDP drop to happen
by: cdawallI agree, my point is tho, recent history would suggest that with that TDP drop doesent come the lower thermal benefits which kind of defeats the object, if they can really produce a 45nm chip that stocks at 4.4gig on air then I am buying one! but TBH.....I have my reservations......we will see.
intel has also publicly said AMD has a better process so much so that intel never could have done something as complex as phenom on 65nm.
also look at AMD's die shrinks now 130nm 2ghz=90w 90nm 2.8ghz=90w 65nm 2.8ghz DC=65w 2.5ghz QC=125w
so it is possible for a huge TDP drop to happen
by: Tatty_OneTDP of Intel may have something to do with the huge quantities of L2 chache that we see nowadays. AMD has about HALF the size of cache on its processors(Deneb 8MB in total or so with the largest size of cache) when comparing to a Yorkfield quad with about 14 MB of cache.
I agree, my point is tho, recent history would suggest that with that TDP drop doesent come the lower thermal benefits which kind of defeats the object, if they can really produce a 45nm chip that stocks at 4.4gig on air then I am buying one! but TBH.....I have my reservations......we will see.
check the link i found... preview for a deneb early engineering samples(could be fake... don't stone me to death yet)
http://nl.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardspell.com%2Fdoc%2Fhard%2F79405.htm&lp=zt_en&btnTrUrl=Vertalen
i think it will be better if someone can translate all the jibberish in english from the native page on the hardspell.com
by: garagetinkererDenebs 8MB to Yorkfields 12MB, but as the title of this thread says "Another shot at Kensfield" (hopefully not as they are a generation old) Kentsfield was 8MB L2 cache.......TDP rating is fairly closely linked with stock speeds and Vid which is why you would expect a HUGE TDP for a stock of 4.4gig so if AMD really have pulled this off it truly is amazing!.............. all credit to them.
TDP of Intel may have something to do with the huge quantities of L2 chache that we see nowadays. AMD has about HALF the size of cache on its processors(Deneb 8MB in total or so with the largest size of cache) when comparing to a Yorkfield quad with about 14 MB of cache.
check the link i found... preview for a deneb early engineering samples(could be fake... don't stone me to death yet)
http://nl.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardspell.com%2Fdoc%2Fhard%2F79405.htm&lp=zt_en&btnTrUrl=Vertalen
i think it will be better if someone can translate all the jibberish in english from the native page on the hardspell.com
I did glean this from that link-
Our test already proved that 45nm Phenom may save near 40W under the full-load conditions compared to 65nm Phenom the power loss, scope close half, this result is very satisfying.
Sorry if the english is bad,its from the translated link,last page.
Our test already proved that 45nm Phenom may save near 40W under the full-load conditions compared to 65nm Phenom the power loss, scope close half, this result is very satisfying.
Sorry if the english is bad,its from the translated link,last page.
Some of the results Kei (and others) are posting here at TPU in the underclocking/volting 9850 thread indicates that phenom is capable of some wierd stuff.
His overclocked results with undervolted cpu suggest the phenom is capable of more than mainstream setups have been getting out of it. Granted his top cpu speed isn't extraordinary, but the voltage he achieves these results at is far far better than stock.
Tye
His overclocked results with undervolted cpu suggest the phenom is capable of more than mainstream setups have been getting out of it. Granted his top cpu speed isn't extraordinary, but the voltage he achieves these results at is far far better than stock.
Tye
Advanced Micro Devices plans to announce its first desktop microprocessors produced using 45nm process technology on the 8th of January, 2009, the first day of Consumer Electronics Show. The code-named Deneb chips will not get truly high clock-speed boost, but will be able to offer substantially higher performance thanks to larger cache and architectural improvements.
The first desktop processors from AMD made using 45nm process technology will be AMD Phenom X4 chips clocked at 2.80GHz and 3.00GHz, sources familiar with AMD’s plans said. The new processors will support both DDR2 and DDR3 memory, but since the initial chips will be available in socket AM2+ form-factor, the chips will have to rely on dual-channel DDR2 PC2-8500 (1066MHz DDR2) memory.
Link: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20080828043213_AMD_s_First_45nm_Desktop_Microprocessors_Set_to_Arrive_on_the_8th_of_January_2009.html
no 4 and 4.4GHz :(
by: X1REME
this was the first post on the cpu below (awesome check it - dated from 21st aug 2008)
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17910794&page=1
the motherboards that support it it that i found in one search
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-016-FC
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-264-AS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=805&name=Asus%20M3A%20AMD%20770%20(Socket%20AM2)%20PCI-Express%20DDR2%20Motherboard
the phenom 65nm has reached 4+ghz by a German over clocker (currently amd record for quad core) so wont be a problem for 45nm deneb :toast:
Actually this board is the only one for 45nm http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-254-AS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=808&name=Asus%20M3A32-MVP%20Deluxe%20AMD%20790FX%20(Socket%20AM2)%20PCI-Express%20DDR2%20Motherboard has to do with the 8+2 power phase ...
Also add the M3A78-T and the Sept-Oct release of the M3A79-T (above board with SB750)
you guys are forgetting that this is not about the regular denebs....its the fx...presumably the top of the line... ie..qx6700 is not q6700...please read the title again phenom(deneb) fx...not phenom(deneb) x4
by: springs113So what was the difference between the X64 and FX ??? other then a high price and oh wait unlocked Multiply... was the same as the Black Editions......at a lower price and those are what we are talking about.
you guys are forgetting that this is not about the regular denebs....its the fx...presumably the top of the line... ie..qx6700 is not q6700...please read the title again phenom(deneb) fx...not phenom(deneb) x4
Nothing, they're just Denebs with unlocked multipliers, possibly binned.
i never really said there were architectural differences, im just saying they are different...not saying that you cant get a deneb that can act as a fx...meaning remember the days of the a64 venice cores...i had a 3000+ clocked that bastard to 2.8 easily on the intel side the e6300... basically like the specially binned 4870s ....so are the fx's
My E6300 was special :D see sig.
I guess we will have to wait and see if there will be an fx phenom.
I guess we will have to wait and see if there will be an fx phenom.
by: blueskynis3Ghz and a TDP of 125W.
Link: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20080827150154_One_New_Dual_Core_AMD_Athlon_X2_K10_Processor_Is_Planned_for_September_Launch_Say_Sources.html
no 4 and 4.4GHz :(
btarunr i win:cool:
by: tigger69Im sure there will be one, im not waiting so much on that, im waiting to see if they can deliver the claimed clocks and performance.
My E6300 was special :D see sig.
I guess we will have to wait and see if there will be an fx phenom.
it's about time AMd get the ball rolling again!
we've been waiting for this for a while now.....
we've been waiting for this for a while now.....
All i have to say is, GO AMD W0000T
(Wonder if it will work on my Kna2plat):ohwell:
(Wonder if it will work on my Kna2plat):ohwell:
soy is bad for you
by: BvB123Where does it say "Phenom FX" ? Where did I say Phenom FX comes out in September?
3Ghz and a TDP of 125W.
btarunr i win:cool:
Looks like I'll finally go AMD next year.
by: BvB123Phenom 9950 + Foxconn's A79-S motheboard and powered by OCZ's 1000W PSU. = 4,050MHz
3Ghz and a TDP of 125W.
btarunr i win:cool:
these are the OEM that will be 3.2 ghz but the mighty FX will be at least 1ghz higher, no doubt about it (4ghz)
the only doubt is the power it needs (1.168v or 1.475v) or maybe in between these figures.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17850&stc=1&d=1219952415
if you look at the revision, its old news and at least 5/6 months old, the recent is b1/c1/?
the oem are supposed to come November (same as Intel i7) but the FX will be Jan/2009 unless AMD decide to do it the other way round (they will do same as the GPU, Deffo). There is no doubt gonna be a war this time round as amd lost the last ones and loosing this one could spell disaster for them and they would need to succeed 100% next time (2009/2010) or we will be stuck with Intel only and maybe a cut down version of amd to please the critics of a monopoly.
by: btarunr??
Where does it say "Phenom FX" ? Where did I say Phenom FX comes out in September?
AMD's First 45nm Desktop Microprocessors Set to Arrive on the 8th of January, 2009.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20080828043213_AMD_s_First_45nm_Desktop_Microprocessors_Set_to_Arrive_on_the_8th_of_January_2009.html
Advanced Micro Devices plans to announce its first desktop microprocessors produced using 45nm process technology on the 8th of January, 2009, the first day of Consumer Electronics Show. The code-named Deneb chips will not get truly high clock-speed boost, but will be able to offer substantially higher performance thanks to larger cache and architectural improvements.
The first desktop processors from AMD made using 45nm process technology will be AMD Phenom X4 chips clocked at 2.80GHz and 3.00GHz, sources familiar with AMD's plans said. The new processors will support both DDR2 and DDR3 memory, but since the initial chips will be available in socket AM2+ form-factor, the chips will have to rely on dual-channel DDR2 PC2-8500 (1066MHz DDR2) memory.
Surprisingly, but the 45nm process technology will not allow AMD to reduce power consumption of its quad-core AMD Phenom X4 process considerably and the new chips are projected to have 125W thermal design power (TDP), inline with today's higher-end Phenom X4 chips. Still, the new microprocessors will definitely have better performance-per-watt ratio compared to predecessors.
Earlier this year AMD said that code-named Shanghai and Deneb microprocessors, which are based on the improved K10 micro-architecture, will be able to offer higher instructions per clock (IPC) throughput compared to currently available AMD Phenom and AMD Opteron processors, which should transform into higher overall performance per clock. Thanks to higher IPC and larger level-three cache (6MB instead of 2MB), the new processors are likely to offer considerably higher speed than existing quad-core chips by AMD.