tigger69Now theres an idea for a mod :)

Cooler bolts through board and metal tray.

kinda

This reminds me of that same horrible idea being used in the 360 and warped boards. hmmm...

BeertintedgogglesJust being a smartass here but.... if you use water cooling with one of the bong type cooling towers you can cool below ambient with only water and moving air thanks to evaporation.

I highly doubt this, water cooling can stay good near ambient, but cant got below it. Nor can aircooling, and nor a combination of them.

Anyway, looks nice. But that heat sink is really only practical in a horizantal installation. Maybe your motherboard wouldnt break right away, but with the varieing temperatures from CPU load/idleness, not even to think about the added ambient temperature fluctations... Sooner than later it will at least get some damage there.

Anyway... sounds like a nice solution for a HTPC and passive cooling:cool: (or at least very low airflow then:p)

Evo85I have always heard that Copper absorbs heat better, while Aluminum releases it better.

But, thats just what I hear.... ;)

silentpcreviewThe Recurring Cu vs. Al Myth

The ability of a metal to transfer heat is described by the term thermal conductivity. Copper's much higher density is its main advantage over aluminum. The thermal conductivity of pure copper can be expressed as 386 W/m-C, compared to pure aluminum's 220 W/m-C. Higher thermal conductivity means faster heat transfer.

The puzzling, persistent myth among computer heatsink geeks is that, somehow, copper absorbs heat faster than aluminum, yet releases it more slowly. This is simply wrong. The metal cannot care or know whether the heat is coming or going, its thermal conductivity remains constant. Copper's thermal conductivity is always higher than that of aluminum.

This does not mean that a copper heatsink will always be superior to one made of aluminum. Material selection is just one of many factors in heatsink performance, and the overall design is often more important than any single aspect.

www.silentpcreview.com/article805-page1.html

In that particular test they review the Ninja 100% Cu with the original Ninja. Very interesting test, especially since the all Cu Ninja only wins over the newer Ninja ver. B, and not the old Ninja.
The most dependent factor is actually the tension between the heatsink and the CPU.

Zehnsuchtwww.silentpcreview.com/article805-page1.html

In that particular test they review the Ninja 100% Cu with the original Ninja. Very interesting test, especially since the all Cu Ninja only wins over the newer Ninja ver. B, and not the old Ninja.
The most dependent factor is actually the tension between the heatsink and the CPU.

An interesting read. Thanks for posting that! :toast:

Oh man I think I just craped my pants in excitement.

A marketing gimmick at best, as heatpipe coolers dont rely on the copper fins for heat transfer, but the heatpipes themselves, thus you will not find much gains in using such a cooler.

Evo85I have always heard that Copper absorbs heat better, while Aluminum releases it better.

But, thats just what I hear.... ;)

Yes, (to settle this :p) copper conducts heat better, but aluminum dissipates it faster.
Hence, all of the coolers with copper bottoms and aluminum fins (plus Al is just a lot cheaper).

And NO! It is NOT Aloominium. :banghead:

TheGuruStudYes, (to settle this :p) copper conducts heat better, but aluminum dissipates it faster.
Hence, all of the coolers with copper bottoms and aluminum fins (plus Al is just a lot cheaper).

And NO! It is NOT Aloominium. :banghead:

No aluminium does not dissipate it any faster or slower than the other. It depends on the thermal conductivity of the air contacting it. physics people physics (some chemistry :p)

RammsteinerI highly doubt this, water cooling can stay good near ambient, but cant got below it. Nor can aircooling, and nor a combination of them.

Actually, yes this type of watercooling will go below ambient. I really don't feel like explaining it so here's a link that explains the concept: forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?t=3856
The wikipedia explaination: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bong_cooler

There are many other sites out there too that will show you just about any way possible to make one of these bong type coolers. When setup properly, there is no radiator out there that would beat one of these (since no traditional radiator will ever cool below ambient). The only problem is that it is an open system so biocide is necessary but with the evaporation taking place that biocide will also make it into the surrounding air, that also means you always need to keep a close eye on your water levels.

DrPepperNo aluminium does not dissipate it any faster or slower than the other. It depends on the thermal conductivity of the air contacting it. physics people physics (some chemistry :p)

Actually, it's heat transfer. Thermodynamic properties, but the study is heat transfer. This myth about the metals is amazing.

BeertintedgogglesJust being a smartass here but.... if you use water cooling with one of the bong type cooling towers you can cool below ambient with only water and moving air thanks to evaporation.

Yes, but then it isn't a single material alone, it is water and air reacting.

newtekie1Yes, but then it isn't a single material alone, it is water and air reacting.

What do you think every heatsink uses??? AIR Unless you're talking about putting them in a vacuum and relying on radiation to cool your heatsink.

Edit: Also, it's not really water and air reacting. It's water changing from its liquid state to its gaseous state (evaporation) which takes lots of energy. That is why this form of cooling is so effective.

One last edit: I didn't mean that to come off as pissy but it kind of looked that way after I read it.

DrPepperNo aluminium does not dissipate it any faster or slower than the other. It depends on the thermal conductivity of the air contacting it. physics people physics (some chemistry :p)

Higher density = better transfer NOT better release. It retains heat better due to being more dense than Al.

I tell you what. We'll heat a 12 guage piece of Cu and Al wire up to 200F and them cool for a few secs. Which wire are you going to grab?

That's what I thought.

I don't care about transfer/release. All I know is that Copper is a better conductor of heat, which means it should convery heat from its source to sink better. The prime objective of a heatsink is to dissipate heat from the source to the air. The fins/grooves add to the surface area and in effect provide more contact between the air and the heat source. Copper being a good conductor does the job.

It does take more energy to heat the copper, but for our applications, I don't think it has much relevancy when using active cooling and a consistent heat source.

I guess I should also say that if we're talking about solid copper or solid Al, then yeah, copper is superior. You need to transfer that heat away quickly. But with a hybrid (what I was talking about in the beginning, should've clarified) you should get a slightly better temp.

TheGuruStudHigher density = better transfer NOT better release. It retains heat better due to being more dense than Al.

I tell you what. We'll heat a 12 guage piece of Cu and Al wire up to 200F and them cool for a few secs. Which wire are you going to grab?

That's what I thought.

The aluminum wire, you know why? because the aluminum wire didn't conduct as much heat to begin with, so it doesn't have as much energy stored inside it. Heat transfer in this context is only dependent on the thermal conductivity. The convection to the air is a function of the air, not the material. So, higher thermal conductivity=lower thermal resistance to heat transfer=lower CPU temp.

rybotoThe aluminum wire, you know why? because the aluminum wire didn't conduct as much heat to begin with, so it doesn't have as much energy stored inside it. Heat transfer in this context is only dependent on the thermal conductivity. The convection to the air is a function of the air, not the material. So, higher thermal conductivity=lower thermal resistance to heat transfer=lower CPU temp.

Yeah, thought of that a min. ago, but we are talking vol here and not mass. Apparently, if you could create a (near) perfect connection between the copper and al then it should result in better temps, but due to that limitation pure cu wins. Idk, I think we need actual, precise and defninitive tests considering there's actually a few variables besides just pure physics. Call mythbusters?


And I also may be completely retarded, can't ever rule that one out.

TheGuruStudYeah, thought of that a min. ago, but we are talking vol here and not mass. Apparently, if you could create a (near) perfect connection between the copper and al then it should result in better temps, but due to that limitation pure cu wins. Idk, I think we need actual, precise and defninitive tests considering there's actually a few variables besides just pure physics. Call mythbusters?


And I also may be completely retarded, can't ever rule that one out.

Copper is a better cooler, heat transfer from the surface of the CPU is determined by conduction, which relates to conductivity. Convection tot he air is completely dependent on the air, not the material from which heat is transfered.

I will wait for results, looks nice though.

RammsteinerI highly doubt this, water cooling can stay good near ambient, but cant got below it. Nor can aircooling, and nor a combination of them.

I am so sure about that.

I lived in Phoenix Arizona one summer, we had what is known as a "Swamp Cooler" on the house which used water evaporation (basically a big box with water dripping through fiber mats and a blower), and even when it was 45°-50° outside, it was a comfortable 23°-25° inside.

And I though that TRUE Black 120 was sexy (www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_images/cpu_cooler/tb120/tb120/true-main-1.jpg), but this one sure is a looker. Reason I went for TRU-90 (www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_images/cpu_cooler/Ultima-90/big/Ultima90-1.jpg) was because of height (fit my old case) and less weight. Soon there will be 3000 used TRUEs on the market, maybe I'd step up for one of those :p

BeertintedgogglesWhat do you think every heatsink uses??? AIR Unless you're talking about putting them in a vacuum and relying on radiation to cool your heatsink.

Edit: Also, it's not really water and air reacting. It's water changing from its liquid state to its gaseous state (evaporation) which takes lots of energy. That is why this form of cooling is so effective.

One last edit: I didn't mean that to come off as pissy but it kind of looked that way after I read it.

Yes, but in other coolers the materials are not reacting with the air or going through any physical reaction or phase change.

And the water is reacting with the air. Actually, the water vapor in the air, is reacting with the liquid water. Evaporation is actually caused by a reaction of the material to itself. The molecules collide(react) with eachother and transfer energy, if one gets enough energy to change state, evaperation happens. Now, the water vapor in the air is also reacting with the liquid water. As the water vapor in the air collides(reacts) with the liquid water, it often takes the energy from a molecule that would normally have enough energy to change states. This is the reason that water evaporates more slowly when the air is humid. There are more water molecules in the air colliding with the liquid water molecules and preventing them from changing state.

I feel like Im back in a high school chemistry class. This is all very entertaining stuff.


As for the cooler, 6lbs is a bit more than Im willing to put on my cpu to keep it cool. Its ridiculous. And Ambient temperature pretty much supersedes most anything. With the exception of LN2, Phase, and TEC, it pretty much governs what the temps are. Funny thing about water, does it cool better than air? Yes if its a good system. It also removes heat alot quicker and returns to ambient alot quicker, than say a great air cooler.

I will start caring when they turn the base of the heatsink into diamond with diamond heatpipes. Now thats a cooler i would purchase :)

RammsteinerI highly doubt this, water cooling can stay good near ambient, but cant got below it. Nor can aircooling, and nor a combination of them.

Anyway, looks nice. But that heat sink is really only practical in a horizantal installation. Maybe your motherboard wouldnt break right away, but with the varieing temperatures from CPU load/idleness, not even to think about the added ambient temperature fluctations... Sooner than later it will at least get some damage there.

Anyway... sounds like a nice solution for a HTPC and passive cooling:cool: (or at least very low airflow then:p)

BeertintedgogglesActually, yes this type of watercooling will go below ambient. I really don't feel like explaining it so here's a link that explains the concept: forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?t=3856
The wikipedia explaination: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bong_cooler

There are many other sites out there too that will show you just about any way possible to make one of these bong type coolers. When setup properly, there is no radiator out there that would beat one of these (since no traditional radiator will ever cool below ambient). The only problem is that it is an open system so biocide is necessary but with the evaporation taking place that biocide will also make it into the surrounding air, that also means you always need to keep a close eye on your water levels.

i wanted to post the answer to this no fun :cry:

reference.techpowerup.com/Bong_cooling