Saturday, September 27th 2008

Slides Reveal Radeon HD 4830 to be Tougher than Expected

Performance projections for the upcoming Radeon HD 4830, made news yesterday, where it is projected to outperform the GeForce 9800 GT. Two new slides published by VR-Zone shed light on how the RV770LE graphics processor manages to do that, and there's a surprise: It was earlier known that the RV770LE comes equipped with 480 stream processors, and one of the earliest reports even suggested that it could have a narrower 192-bit memory bus. The slides published, show that the new GPU could carry as many as 640 stream processors, double that of the RV670. It comes with a proper 256-bit wide GDDR3 memory bus. Also included, is hardware support for 24x custom filter anti-aliasing (CFAA).

It is also known that the new card is gearing up for an October 21 launch and would be priced below US $150. AIBs would be able to sell custom designed cards right upon launch. While the new GPU does look "tougher" and more equipped than expected, here's something to ponder: with twice the amount of stream processors as the Radeon HD 3870, as projections suggest, is it going to be only 10% faster than the 9800 GT?

Source: VR-Zone
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40 Comments on Slides Reveal Radeon HD 4830 to be Tougher than Expected

#1
Mussels
Moderprator
lol, VR-zone is gunna get in crap for posting those.
Posted on Reply
#2
WarEagleAU
Bird of Prey
Hmm, 10% is a little on the low side, but it is better performing. For those wanting to see a 50% increase in performance over the 9800, I suggest you lower your expectations :D
Posted on Reply
#3
KieranD
how goods the card next to the 4850 and 4870
all i want to know is that because if its not much more for those then is this card worth it?
Posted on Reply
#4
DarkMatter
Well HD4850 is not too much faster than that 10% over the 9800GT, it's around 15% faster at that resolution (1920x1200) and less as we decrease the resolution and AA. This one can't be or shouldn't be close to the HD4850 so it's about right. Anyway I remember the first slides of the HD4850 and they shown the same proportions or higher ones, but compared to the 9800GTX instead of the GT. We know that overall that's not the case and the games were carefully selected here too. This kind of slides are pure marketing after all.

EDIT: Also I find this quite funny:
here's something to ponder: with twice the amount of stream processors as the Radeon HD 3870, as projections suggest, is it going to be only 10% faster than the 9800 GT?
How can they wonder that. Did they asked the same about the HD4850/4870? LOL. How can that be that with 800SP the card is only barely faster than the 9800GTX? I mean they expected this card to be faster than the HD4850 or what?
Posted on Reply
#5

It should have read 8800GT not the 9800GTX which is in a far higher price bracket, more expensive than the 4850.
#6
DarkMatter
by: insider
It should have read 8800GT not the 9800GTX which is in a far higher price bracket, more expensive than the 4850.
It's the GT being compared there, not the GTX. The GT is cheaper, much cheaper, about 50% cheaper. And the 8800GTS although almost impossible to find right now it's also cheaper. Both have factory OCed cards that are far cheaper than the HD4850. Enough so both the GT and the GTS when OCed are a treat. And that's why Ati is releasing this card. Ati has won this round spiritually, and probably in sales, because the masses choose the card that sounds more on the media, but not materially really.
Posted on Reply
#7

The 4850 is clearly better while only being around £110, sure you may find slower cards at around £80-£90 but the price difference is so small why bother with anything else?

I don't know what you mean by "because the masses choose the card that sounds more on the media, but not materially really." the various gaming benchmarks prove it from various websites as well as user benches.

You don't play games with that calibre of card at low resolution, i.e below 16xx*1xxx.
#8
Mussels
Moderprator
by: insider


You don't play games with that calibre of card at low resolution, i.e below 16xx*1xxx.
just because you dont, doesnt mean the rest of the world doesnt. i use an OC'd 8800GT/GTX on a 40" HDTV with a native res of 1360x768. I also know many, many uni students with 15-19" LCD's (widescreen and not) because they cannot afford the cost, or the physical desk space for a larger screen.

making assumptions based on your own personal feelings tends to lead to illogical thinking.
Posted on Reply
#9

by: Mussels
just because you dont, doesnt mean the rest of the world doesnt. i use an OC'd 8800GT/GTX on a 40" HDTV with a native res of 1360x768. I also know many, many uni students with 15-19" LCD's (widescreen and not) because they cannot afford the cost, or the physical desk space for a larger screen.

making assumptions based on your own personal feelings tends to lead to illogical thinking.
A student wasting their cash for such a fast card for low resolution gaming, that is illogical thinking, a far cheaper 3850/8800GT would have more than sufficed, of course you could argue it isn't really that much of their beer money! ;)
#10
Mussels
Moderprator
actually, many uni students lack your logic. they tend to get faster cards, particularly SLI setups with small, low resolution screens.

THeres a lanner girl here who has two 8800GTX's in SLI, on a 26" HDTV that she runs at 720p at the lans. Low res, high FPS... hey it lets you use more AA!
(she was running crysis warhead on 'enthusiast' with 8xaa and 60+ FPS under DX10, so you cant say theres no use to it)
Posted on Reply
#11
KainXS
its under video specification on the product page

-Photo, Video, Gaming modes selectable (Gaming mode requires ASUS graphics card)
Posted on Reply
#12
Mussels
Moderprator
by: KainXS
its under video specification on the product page

-Photo, Video, Gaming modes selectable (Gaming mode requires ASUS graphics card)
wrong thread. lol.
Posted on Reply
#13

lol I was trying to find the 4830 on the Asus site and was thinking wtf is that guy smoking! :pimp:
Posted on Edit | Reply
#14
ilpalmare
ONE QUESTION????????????????

You have read the image file attached.......... PHYSIC CAPABILITYYYYYYYYYYYY :twitch::twitch::twitch::twitch::twitch:
Posted on Reply
#15
Monkeywoman
by: ilpalmare
ONE QUESTION????????????????

You have read the image file attached.......... PHYSIC CAPABILITYYYYYYYYYYYY :twitch::twitch::twitch::twitch::twitch:
that is Hvok's physics and theres yet a patch or driver that moves hvok physics to gpu.
Posted on Reply
#16
ilpalmare
i have think to ageia physic buahahaha :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Is ok this thing. Hope in next catalyst driver :toast:
Posted on Reply
#17
DarkMatter
by: insider
The 4850 is clearly better while only being around £110, sure you may find slower cards at around £80-£90 but the price difference is so small why bother with anything else?

I don't know what you mean by "because the masses choose the card that sounds more on the media, but not materially really." the various gaming benchmarks prove it from various websites as well as user benches.

You don't play games with that calibre of card at low resolution, i.e below 16xx*1xxx.
by: insider
A student wasting their cash for such a fast card for low resolution gaming, that is illogical thinking, a far cheaper 3850/8800GT would have more than sufficed, of course you could argue it isn't really that much of their beer money! ;)
Firsts of all, you know 9800GT=8800GT right? Because by your posts it seems you don't know that. And that would explain how you start disagreeing in the first post to almost completely agree in the second.

Second, the perf difference between the 8800GT/9800GT and HD3850 is much much higher than the one between the GT and HD4850, so if we had to make two segments they would be 3850 on one side and 8800GT/9800GT/HD4850 on the other and not as you put in the second post. Actually you can find many factory OCed GTs that will run as fast as the HD4850. For instance mine, it came with a 16% OC and that's enough to be even faster than stock HD4850 on some games and settings. Reviews always show stock versus stock and that doesn't realy reflect the reality. Ati cards don't OC well since R600, factory OCed cards are scarce and with small OCs. Most Nvidia cards come OCed, with more than 10% OC most of them and for almost the same price as stock. Hell it is hard to find non overclocked cards in local stores around my home nowadays, as if they never existed. Most people don't know this, or they don't take a second to think about it and they go in a rush to buy the HD4850 even though they might not need as much power or the fact that for their screen resolution an OCed GT would be both faster and far cheaper. Why? BEcause you can read everywere in the media that the HD4850 gives the competition a run for its money. BUT that's because they only count the 9800GTX/GTX+ as the competition. GTX/GTX+are around $200, yes. But the 8800GTS which is almost as fast is around $130, and the GT, again almost fast as the GTS sells for as low as $100 after MIR. Look at Wizzards review for the performance summary, but I can tell you HD4850 is only 15% faster than the 8800/9800GT, so where would be the 10% OCed MSI 9800 GT (in the link) in comparison?
Posted on Reply
#18
KainXS
by: KainXS
its under video specification on the product page

-Photo, Video, Gaming modes selectable (Gaming mode requires ASUS graphics card)
whoops:ohwell:
Posted on Reply
#19

by: DarkMatter
Firsts of all, you know 9800GT=8800GT right? Because by your posts it seems you don't know that. And that would explain how you start disagreeing in the first post to almost completely agree in the second.

Second, the perf difference between the 8800GT/9800GT and HD3850 is much much higher than the one between the GT and HD4850, so if we had to make two segments they would be 3850 on one side and 8800GT/9800GT/HD4850 on the other and not as you put in the second post. Actually you can find many factory OCed GTs that will run as fast as the HD4850. For instance mine, it came with a 16% OC and that's enough to be even faster than stock HD4850 on some games and settings. Reviews always show stock versus stock and that doesn't realy reflect the reality. Ati cards don't OC well since R600, factory OCed cards are scarce and with small OCs. Most Nvidia cards come OCed, with more than 10% OC most of them and for almost the same price as stock. Hell it is hard to find non overclocked cards in local stores around my home nowadays, as if they never existed. Most people don't know this, or they don't take a second to think about it and they go in a rush to buy the HD4850 even though they might not need as much power or the fact that for their screen resolution an OCed GT would be both faster and far cheaper. Why? BEcause you can read everywere in the media that the HD4850 gives the competition a run for its money. BUT that's because they only count the 9800GTX/GTX+ as the competition. GTX/GTX+are around $200, yes. But the 8800GTS which is almost as fast is around $130, and the GT, again almost fast as the GTS sells for as low as $100 after MIR. Look at Wizzards review for the performance summary, but I can tell you HD4850 is only 15% faster than the 8800/9800GT, so where would be the 10% OCed MSI 9800 GT (in the link) in comparison?
I misread the OP as a 9800GTX.

That may be true in the US but in europe and the rest of the world the prices are far higher and very close to the 4580 which makes the 9800GT rather pointless, mail in rebates are extremely rare, assuming they even exist at all outside the US.

You are comparing stock vs overclocked, I could probably get the 4850 fairly close to the GTX260/HD4870 after some heavy volt mods and high clocks, but then you could do the same with the GTX260 and push that close if not surpass the 4870 after overclocking it.

A heavily clocked GTX260 probably ain't that far off from the GTX280 either, the reviewers can't base their recommendations on something that is not guaranteed, it's not like a C2D here where the vast majority of low end chips can scale >100% in overclocks.


Edit:

An HD 3850 512MB can be bought for around £60 delivered, 8800GT 512MB £85 + shipping, HD 4850 512MB £103~ + shipping cheapest I could find.

For low resolution gaming this is a bargain, 8800GT 256MB @£46 almost half the price of the 512Mb version : http://www.ebuyer.com/product/149370
Posted on Edit | Reply
#20
PCpraiser100
Holy Sh*t. This card has got some kick to it!
Posted on Reply
#21
DarkMatter
by: insider
I misread the OP as a 9800GTX.

That may be true in the US but in europe and the rest of the world the prices are far higher and very close to the 4580 which makes the 9800GT rather pointless, mail in rebates are extremely rare, assuming they even exist at all outside the US.

You are comparing stock vs overclocked, I could probably get the 4850 fairly close to the GTX260/HD4870 after some heavy volt mods and high clocks, but then you could do the same with the GTX260 and push that close if not surpass the 4870 after overclocking it.

A heavily clocked GTX260 probably ain't that far off from the GTX280 either, the reviewers can't base their recommendations on something that is not guaranteed, it's not like a C2D here where the vast majority of low end chips can scale >100% in overclocks.
- I live in Europe. I think I know how prices are in at least one part of Europe. :rolleyes:
I always search how prices are in some other countries here in Europe. And the situation is the same as in the US. Maybe not as pronounced, but the same. OCed 8800GT's are a much better deal price/perf wise. Usually, even though I check them, I don't take into account prices in the UK and France because there prices are just unbeliable, they charge whatever they want, indiscriminately!! I feel sorry for them.
Maybe you should have said that in your region, what you say is like this or that. You would have a point there, but you can't overlook the situation in the biggest market in the world (US) and the biggest one in Europe (Germany), and expect to have a point proven. You do not. EDIT: It's the same here in Spain BTW.

- I am talking about FACTORY OCed cards, you have guaranteed they will work at those clocks, some with double lifetime warranty!!
Not talking about overcloking them yourself. I'm talking stock voltages and cooling, check Wizzards reviews. HD4850 OCs a 9% IIRC, every Nvidia card does 15-20%. Voltage mods would not change anything either, I don't how does RV770, but G92 when volt modded was even faster (in comparison to RV670) than with stock. I'm not going to doubt your OCing skills, but I would be very surprised if you can get anyhing above 12% with HD4850 with stock. If you can, proofs please. As of now this is the highset factory OCed cards I could find:

HD4850 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125236 - 700Mhz, 12% OC, $220 <<<- You pay the high OC...

9800GT - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121266 - 725Mhz, 21% OC, $150

8800GT - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500006 - 700Mhz, 16% OC, $119. Simply UNBEATABLE.

- Again check Wizzards reviews, GTX260 is almost as fast as HD4870 and it can overclock up to 715Mhz (21% OC), while the HD4870 has a hard time getting past 800Mhz (6% OC). HD4870 is nowhere near 15% faster than the GTX260, so when OCed GTX260 >> HD4870. You can OC the GTX280 as much as the 260 AND you have factory OCed cards at 700Mhz for both.
Posted on Reply
#22

Find me an etailer in Germany that sells close to those prices if you can, I'll buy them without having to worry about import tax :D
Posted on Edit | Reply
#23
DarkMatter
by: insider
Find me an etailer in Germany that sells close to those prices if you can, I'll buy them without having to worry about import tax :D
We both know you can't find those prices anywhere in Europe, prics are higher but that works for both brands.

And I won't work for you, find them yourself, LOL, but anyway these are the two I found after a quick search (less than 60s)(slow internet as I'm downloading things :)):

725Mhz Asus 9800GT

Cheap 9800GT

Many other inbetween those two, both in performance and price, in he same etailer BTW.
Posted on Reply
#25
DarkMatter
by: btarunr
Here's another one: http://web.hoh.de/hoh/(S(gxpkczjh5pwdrtzidv1acu45))/default.aspx?TY=item&ST=1&IT=73947&CT=1306

^this one is actually closer to being on par with American prices. Go EU!
:respect: :respect::respect:

A 9800GT won't SLI with my 8800GT isn't it? :(

UPS!! Forget about that! I'm on Crossfire mobo right now. Indeed I decided to go this route, so that I never fall for the temptation of buying another card for SLI. :laugh:

Off course if my next card is Ati, the temptation will be there though... :banghead:
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