Wednesday, March 25th 2009

Single-PCB GeForce GTX 295 in the Works

Traditionally, NVIDIA designs dual-GPU accelerators with two PCBs holding a GPU system each. With the GeForce GTX 295 and its competitive pricing, NVIDIA found itself in a difficult position, as it faces direct competition from ATI with its now competitively priced Radeon HD 4870 X2. On the one hand, escalating manufacturing costs due to extreme competition with the sub-$300 graphics card market, is making it difficult for NVIDIA to keep up with GTX 295 stocks, on the other its repercussions that include bad press and losses due to not being able to keep up with demand, have pushed NVIDIA to rethink a way to make the GeForce GTX 295.

Enter innovation. The company is reportedly redesigning the GeForce GTX 295, this time on a single PCB design, which ATI has been using for its dual-GPU accelerators. Both GPU systems of the GTX 295 will be placed on a single PCB. This is expected to significantly bring down manufacturing costs, allowing the company to keep up with demands and competitive pricing. Expreview sourced the drawings of one of the prototypes, which shows a long single PCB card, with a central fan. You will also observe that there is a back-plate in place. It shows that a number of memory chips will be populated on the back, and both GPU systems on the front. It will be an engineering challenge, to populate five major heat-producing components (two G200b GPUs, two NVIO2 processors, and one BR-03 bridge chip), 28 GDDR3 memory chips, and the VRM area to power it all. The new redesigned card may surface internally in April, and may enter production by May.

Source: Expreview
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74 Comments on Single-PCB GeForce GTX 295 in the Works

#1
alexp999
Staff
I'm a little worried as to where the heat is going on one of the GPU's, it looks like one will vent out the back and the other will vent out inside the case.

I like the idea of this a lot, but I hope the final design has all the heat going out the back, or the card is going to be fighting the intakes on our chassis'
Posted on Reply
#2
Binge
Overclocking Surrealism
this will be disappointing. At first I thought the 295 would have more heat problems than the 4870x2 because of proximity of heat, but they designed it correctly. I can tell because load temps aren't anywhere close to my 4870x2.
Posted on Reply
#3
gumpty
by: Binge
this will be disappointing. At first I thought the 295 would have more heat problems than the 4870x2 because of proximity of heat, but they designed it correctly. I can tell because load temps aren't anywhere close to my 4870x2.
I thought the same thing when I saw where the fan was.

On the plus side, it will be a lot easier for companies to design aftermarket coolers with it all on one pcb.
Posted on Reply
#4
lemonadesoda
You will also observe that there is a back-plate in place. It shows that a number of memory chips will be populated on the back, and both GPU systems on the front.
Power circuitry is a more likely option to be moved... with RAM still on same side as GPU. Could be wrong... but seems like the most practical solution. Indeed, the mosfets could do with a heatsink-plate.
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#5
1Kurgan1
The Knife in your Back
by: Binge
this will be disappointing. At first I thought the 295 would have more heat problems than the 4870x2 because of proximity of heat, but they designed it correctly. I can tell because load temps aren't anywhere close to my 4870x2.
My 4870x2 runs like an iceberg, I don't think it's ever seen over 65C. :rockout:
Posted on Reply
#6
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
by: lemonadesoda
Power circuitry is a more likely option to be moved... with RAM still on same side as GPU. Could be wrong... but seems like the most practical solution. Indeed, the mosfets could do with a heatsink-plate.
The VRM portion tends to generate more heat than memory, especially for such a card, also, I don't think you can have mosfets and chokes on either sides of the PCB, they should be on the same side.
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#7
laszlo
good night Nvidia! sleep well! oh! you wake-up!!!
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#8
ShadowFold
Interesting.. But they need to put the fan on the farthest end, like Alex said. I would imagine this would be like the BFG WTF edition cooler lol
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#9
tigger
I'm the only one
At least they've woken up to how crappy the dual pcb design is.
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#10
wolf
Performance Enthusiast
by: tigger
At least they've woken up to how crappy the dual pcb design is.
says you.
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#11
Selene
are they saying it will be a $300.00 card?
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#12
Tatty_One
Senior Moderator
by: tigger
At least they've woken up to how crappy the dual pcb design is.
A lot say that but why fix want isnt broke? Apart from the costs of course, their dual PCB designs continue to match what ATi offer on a single PCB both in terms of performance and sustainable thermals, if this makes the cards even cheaper as well I suppose it can only be a good thing in the longer term... IDK.
Posted on Reply
#13
ShadowFold
by: wolf
says you.
Says a lot of people. It's really exspensive to have two PCB's on the same card and to design a decent cooler for one. This is probably going to cost a 3rd of what the original costed.

by: Marineborn
i always hear these heat issues about 4870x2 and just the 4870's in general well i have a x2 that doesnt leave 35c idle and 50c Load so....im totally lost on whjat people are talking about maybe they should stop sticking there towers in the oven
+1 to that. I've had 6 HD 4000 series cards, the hottest I've seen one go was 67c and that was my 4850 stock cooler at 740 something mhz.
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#14
Marineborn
i always hear these heat issues about 4870x2 and just the 4870's in general well i have a x2 that doesnt leave 35c idle and 50c Load so....im totally lost on whjat people are talking about maybe they should stop sticking there towers in the oven
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#15
wolf
Performance Enthusiast
by: ShadowFold
Says a lot of people. It's really exspensive to have two PCB's on the same card and to design a decent cooler for one. This is probably going to cost a 3rd of what the original costed.
do you honestly think cutting down 50% of a PCB (two to one) will cut costs to a 166 USD price point?

it may be better for costs but what Tatty said is true, t'ain't broke, sure it costs a bit more but the thermals are fantastic, easily a better design then the 4870X2 cooler IMO. Both GPU's are always 2 degrees apart, i struggled to get that in dual card configurations.
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#16
3870x2
Shouldn't Nv be putting up a defense against the 4890 by this time? The supposed GTX275 could fail miserably, being too close in performance to the GTX280 or 260, and probably fall closer in performance to the iceQ4 4870 1gb at a higher price.
The 4890 was shown to be between the GTX280 and the GTX285, at a lower price than the GTX280.
Posted on Reply
#17
wolf
Performance Enthusiast
by: 3870x2
Shouldn't Nv be putting up a defense against the 4890 by this time? The supposed GTX275 could fail miserably, being too close in performance to the GTX280 or 260, and probably fall closer in performance to the iceQ4 4870 1gb at a higher price.
The 4890 was shown to be between the GTX280 and the GTX285, at a lower price than the GTX280.
im pretty sure its when it was overclocked to 1ghz that it sat between the 280 and 285 ...
Posted on Reply
#18
3870x2
by: wolf
im pretty sure its when it was overclocked to 1ghz that it sat between the 280 and 285 ...
On this forum, the overclock IS the standard performance. Where are you?;)
Posted on Reply
#20
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
by: ShadowFold
Interesting.. But they need to put the fan on the farthest end, like Alex said. I would imagine this would be like the BFG WTF edition cooler lol
I hope the leave the fan right where it is. The central fan design has worked great in the past, I don't see why it wouldn't work here. Half the air is being exhausted out the back, which isn't bad considering half the exhaust port on the original GTX295 was covered anyway.:laugh:

I'd rather have both GPU's cooled independantly than have the hot air from one blowing over the other.

by: ShadowFold
Says a lot of people. It's really exspensive to have two PCB's on the same card and to design a decent cooler for one. This is probably going to cost a 3rd of what the original costed.
The expense is probably the only advantage going to a single PCB brings, and it isn't as huge as you would think. Moving from two semi-complex PCBs to a single extremely-complex PBC isn't going to save a whole lot in costs. Yes, the savings will be there, but I doubt it will even come close to cutting costs in half.

by: 3870x2
On this forum, the overclock IS the standard performance. Where are you?;)
Yes, and your argument is the overclocked 1GHz HD4890 sits between the STOCK GTX280 and GTX285 so nVidia needs to come up with something to counter it?:nutkick::shadedshu Thats some iffy logic you got going there.

We already know what nVidia is going to do with the HD4890. If it's stock performance is close enough to the GTX285, they are going to lower the GTX285's price. If the HD4890 falls more inbetween the GTX260 216 and GTX285, they are going to release the GTX275.
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#21
h3llb3nd4
cant wait! but I gotta get a L/C system
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#22
AltecV1
thats good news:) and the card looks much better looking now:p
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#23
lemonadesoda
by: btarunr
The VRM portion tends to generate more heat than memory, especially for such a card, also, I don't think you can have mosfets and chokes on either sides of the PCB, they should be on the same side.
I looked again at the "artists impression" of the new card. Look carefully at the top of the card and the fan position, and then the backplate. The location of the fan and the location of 2 sets of holes to mount a GPU heatsink indicate that there is no room on the face side for any VRM. So the VRM must be on the rear, or on a daughter VRM card... OR... the artist impression is just wrong.

Note also I could not spot the power connectors for the card on the picture... Oohps! They are there! LOL
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#24
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
I never denied this to be a drawing, and that too, of a prototype. We will have to wait and see what it turns out like.
Posted on Reply
#25
3870x2
by: Tatty_One
:d
That hat has to be photoshopped!:laugh:
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