| Friday, January 28 2005 |
MSI sold lower grade NX6800GT-T2D256E (PCI-E) to customers. The affected cards have only 12 Pipelines and 5 Vertex Units as following screenshot from Rivatuner shows.
A real 6800GT has 16 Pipelines and 6 Vertex Units. Here the same Rivatuner Screenshot.
Based on this, the cards MSI is selling should be called '6800NU'.
The missing pipelines greatly affect performance, in 3DMark2003 for example, by over 10%.
3DMark Link MSI 6800
3DMark Link Pine XFX 6800
It is unclear how many cards are affected and whether only germany is affected (that's where we found those cards). There is no statement from MSI so far.
German retailer MIPS-Computer says: "We received several MSI 6800GT which had only 12 Pipelines and 5 Vertex Units. This made us wonder a bit because MSI always delivers good quality. We sold none of the defective cards to customers."
When we tried to unlock the Pipelines with Rivatuner we experienced massive artifacts which lets us think that either wrong GPU chips were used by accident, or that MSI is using cheaper lower-grade chips.
Gigabyte had similar problems in August/September 2004. In their case an incorrect BIOS was put on the sold cards - after that a BIOS Update released on their website.
Other sources tell us that Pixelview is still selling 6800LE's as 6800NU.
In case you bought such a card we recommend returning it to your retailer. Do not try to unlock the pipelines or overclock the card (both makes you lose your warranty). Also make sure to verify that you are affected by this pipeline issue before returning your card.
MSI responds here.
A real 6800GT has 16 Pipelines and 6 Vertex Units. Here the same Rivatuner Screenshot.
Based on this, the cards MSI is selling should be called '6800NU'.
The missing pipelines greatly affect performance, in 3DMark2003 for example, by over 10%.
3DMark Link MSI 6800
3DMark Link Pine XFX 6800
It is unclear how many cards are affected and whether only germany is affected (that's where we found those cards). There is no statement from MSI so far.
German retailer MIPS-Computer says: "We received several MSI 6800GT which had only 12 Pipelines and 5 Vertex Units. This made us wonder a bit because MSI always delivers good quality. We sold none of the defective cards to customers."
When we tried to unlock the Pipelines with Rivatuner we experienced massive artifacts which lets us think that either wrong GPU chips were used by accident, or that MSI is using cheaper lower-grade chips.
Gigabyte had similar problems in August/September 2004. In their case an incorrect BIOS was put on the sold cards - after that a BIOS Update released on their website.
Other sources tell us that Pixelview is still selling 6800LE's as 6800NU.
In case you bought such a card we recommend returning it to your retailer. Do not try to unlock the pipelines or overclock the card (both makes you lose your warranty). Also make sure to verify that you are affected by this pipeline issue before returning your card.
MSI responds here.
User comments
:O:O:O:O
are you sure its an LE and not a "vanilla" aka TD in the asus cards at least?
edit: just what IS the difference between LE and vanilla?
are you sure its an LE and not a "vanilla" aka TD in the asus cards at least?
edit: just what IS the difference between LE and vanilla?
there was a typo in the article .. it has been fixed .. the card is equivalent to a NU
the LE has 8P as you can see in you GPU Database
the LE has 8P as you can see in you GPU Database
Just like lastmonth another Taiwan Brand (Triplex or what I forgot) used remarked Samsung TCCD ram chip on their video cards
Maybe the store bought the cards from a MSI distributor who is remarking lower end cards? I dont think MSI would do this themselves.
These are 256MB cards. I don't think 256MB 6800nus exist. So it couldn't be a distributor remarking the cards.
I have a MSI NX6800NU that is 256MB. Also what is up with the cores? If those are PCI-Express cards, the cores should be NV41 cores not NV40.
by: UnregisteredOh yes they do, from both MSI and LeadTek. Also, bear in mind that the difference between 6800NU and 6800GT in the PigCow-Express world is also appearence of BR02 bridge chip and the manufacturing process as well.
These are 256MB cards. I don't think 256MB 6800nus exist. So it couldn't be a distributor remarking the cards.
6800 Vanilla, or NU is NV41 - 12 pipes, couple of mil transi less chip than NV40. 110nm as well.
6800GT - well, NV40 meets BR02 on same package. 130nm.
However, if guy from TechPower up was able to see "missing" pipes in the 6800NU board, then that board has a faulty BIOS. But hey, thats normal for MSI. Remember their nForce boards with that faulty BIOS chip (flash the bios, by-by the board) and that nForce2 engineering bios thing, all happened couple of years ago?
And Gigabyte, ASUS having same problems... well, it's all - "made in Taiwan". So, it's made in taiwan quality... or quirks...
Yo Wizzard, what's the memory on that thing... clock?
6800NU's are something like 300-325 core and 620 to 700 memory. Does hte board has Infineon DDR-I chips (LeadTek NV41 board) or GDDR-3 (then MSI fuc*ed up the bios)?
Be more precise, dag nabbit!
6800NU's are something like 300-325 core and 620 to 700 memory. Does hte board has Infineon DDR-I chips (LeadTek NV41 board) or GDDR-3 (then MSI fuc*ed up the bios)?
Be more precise, dag nabbit!
This reminds me of the time Sapphire sold 9800 Pros with 128bit bus without telling costumers.
After a guy created a web site that boycotted Sapphire products, he got them to replace the cards and put a sticker in all future 128bits "Pros" boxes.
Hope MSI or whoever did this mistake corrects it before their brand name becomes tainted as it happened to Sapphire before.
After a guy created a web site that boycotted Sapphire products, he got them to replace the cards and put a sticker in all future 128bits "Pros" boxes.
Hope MSI or whoever did this mistake corrects it before their brand name becomes tainted as it happened to Sapphire before.
It's not the first time with and MSI and faulty cards.
Last November I bought a 9800 Pro from MSI and it had a non Pro BIOS on it (clocked only 324/279).
MSI knew about the problem, but no warning or comment from them and NO BIOS Update on their page. The only way to get the "right" card was to flash with a BIOS downloaded from a forum...
Last November I bought a 9800 Pro from MSI and it had a non Pro BIOS on it (clocked only 324/279).
MSI knew about the problem, but no warning or comment from them and NO BIOS Update on their page. The only way to get the "right" card was to flash with a BIOS downloaded from a forum...
A month ago i bought a RX9800 pro-td128 and i think the card is cheaper that others 9800 pro, becuz my default core clock speed is 350 mhz tried every driver that i found, still no luck, talked to the shop where i bought my card, he said that its only 30mhz and it doesnt really matter(cheap place) and i checked my card with atitool and it says my card has a r350 core, i think it supposed to be a r360 no?? now i guess i have bought a very cheap 9800 pro help will be appreciated
by: Unregistered
Yo Wizzard, what's the memory on that thing... clock?
6800NU's are something like 300-325 core and 620 to 700 memory. Does hte board has Infineon DDR-I chips (LeadTek NV41 board) or GDDR-3 (then MSI fuc*ed up the bios)?
Be more precise, dag nabbit!
The MSI 12/5 "GT" has got 256MB GDDR3 Samsung GC20, 2x DVI, ultra PCB. Only the Chips are wrong. and unlocking pipes -> pixel errors, so not only a bios fault ;) that's my opinion, but maybe wrong ...
by: Unregistered
Oh yes they do, from both MSI and LeadTek. Also, bear in mind that the difference between 6800NU and 6800GT in the PigCow-Express world is also appearence of BR02 bridge chip and the manufacturing process as well.
6800 Vanilla, or NU is NV41 - 12 pipes, couple of mil transi less chip than NV40. 110nm as well.
6800GT - well, NV40 meets BR02 on same package. 130nm.
However, if guy from TechPower up was able to see "missing" pipes in the 6800NU board, then that board has a faulty BIOS. But hey, thats normal for MSI. Remember their nForce boards with that faulty BIOS chip (flash the bios, by-by the board) and that nForce2 engineering bios thing, all happened couple of years ago?
And Gigabyte, ASUS having same problems... well, it's all - "made in Taiwan". So, it's made in taiwan quality... or quirks...
The best components are 'Made in Taiwan'! Can u name a country/region that makes better products for the same price? ie. there r no more German/Japanese electronic products for the same price any more - welcome to the 21st century!
by: UnregisteredItīs known that Abit is using japanese capacitors in their boards due to problems related to some leaky Taiwanese ones. They are more expensive, but more reliable too because they are built with better materials and/or technology.
The best components are 'Made in Taiwan'! Can u name a country/region that makes better products for the same price? ie. there r no more German/Japanese electronic products for the same price any more - welcome to the 21st century!
But I think overall Taiwan quality is fine and getting better actually. In the past, say 60's and 70's, people used to disdain "Made in Japan" products too.
Hi,
You may like to know that the problem is in Singapore as well. I just bought a T2D256E and was wondering how come my benchies were so low. Checked RivaTuner after reading this thread and aha!
The local distributor is investigating, but it's certainly not their fault (good reputation and well known to the local geek community).
Anyone got a fix so far? Is MSI saying anything?
You may like to know that the problem is in Singapore as well. I just bought a T2D256E and was wondering how come my benchies were so low. Checked RivaTuner after reading this thread and aha!
The local distributor is investigating, but it's certainly not their fault (good reputation and well known to the local geek community).
Anyone got a fix so far? Is MSI saying anything?
i'got two of them, i live in France and the same problem with the two cards. :(
Same problem here in Belgium... Bought a 6800GT PCI-E about two weeks ago, and it turns out to be a 6800NU... I'm thinking of roasting them!!! MSI, that is, not the video card!
J
J
I've read in Norwegian forums that fake cards have been sold here in Norway as well. This may turn out to be a great scandal...
Same in the UK as well. I got one and the whole batch (the supplier I bought the card from received) are 6800s as well.
NO FIX AT ALL. It seems that MSI 6800GT is known in taiwain to be a 12 pipeline PCI E card. The true GT with all the 16 pipes will be called 6800GTX....and will be out late february....!!!
Incredible!!!! MSI sell cards under the name GT as it is really only a 6800N "classic".
The problem exist in Finland, Belgium, Danmark, Germany etc etc....
The biggest problem is the ratio PRICE/PERF, the price is a 6800GT price for 6800N performances.....It's a shame....
And now MSI, what can u do for us??? Plz HELP.....
Incredible!!!! MSI sell cards under the name GT as it is really only a 6800N "classic".
The problem exist in Finland, Belgium, Danmark, Germany etc etc....
The biggest problem is the ratio PRICE/PERF, the price is a 6800GT price for 6800N performances.....It's a shame....
And now MSI, what can u do for us??? Plz HELP.....
by: RubyOh my! So this is now a MSI scandal!?!?
NO FIX AT ALL. It seems that MSI 6800GT is known in taiwain to be a 12 pipeline PCI E card. The true GT with all the 16 pipes will be called 6800GTX....and will be out late february....!!!
Incredible!!!! MSI sell cards under the name GT as it is really only a 6800N "classic".
The problem exist in Finland, Belgium, Danmark, Germany etc etc....
The biggest problem is the ratio PRICE/PERF, the price is a 6800GT price for 6800N performances.....It's a shame....
And now MSI, what can u do for us??? Plz HELP.....
I hope you guys end up getting the card you wanted in the first place. This isn't right. Bad MSI.
There are still no answer from msi.
another msi fault... selling msi k8n neo4 diamond without dual wlan card, but on package a big sticker "including wlan card" ...
another msi fault... selling msi k8n neo4 diamond without dual wlan card, but on package a big sticker "including wlan card" ...
by: RubyThis is what the box says:
NO FIX AT ALL. It seems that MSI 6800GT is known in taiwain to be a 12 pipeline PCI E card. The true GT with all the 16 pipes will be called 6800GTX....and will be out late february....!!!
"Powered by NVIDIA (R) GeForce TM 6800 GT Superscalar GPU"
I cannot find _any_ references anywhere to a 6800 GT GPU that has less then 16 pipelines.
This really doesnt sound right. One thing is calling the product "6800GT" to decieve or whatever, but saying it has a 6800 GT GPU when it most obviously does not is quite another.
I doubt thats good practice even in Taiwan. There is nothing about this product that indicates that it's not based on a 16 pipe, normal 6800 GT.
Oh yeah, I'm in norway and this card is confirmed being here as well. My card has 12 pipelines and 5 VU's.
Somebody has to buy the faulty ones, right?
And why loose money downpricing it since tehy can cheat and get away with it...
We should really kick up some right stink about it!
We are being considered as idiots not being able to tell the difference...
And why loose money downpricing it since tehy can cheat and get away with it...
We should really kick up some right stink about it!
We are being considered as idiots not being able to tell the difference...