What's a good soundcard?

[hat]

My uncle may be looking for a new sound card since he's fed up with Creative's bullshit with the audiodg memory leak issue... this issue's been around since Windows Vista and they've got tons of bug reports about it, but they still refuse to fix it... there's been 3 driver releases since then, and the issue still exists. The current fix is to disable sound blaster enhancements (gee, let me go and disable these features that I expected to get from my $100+ sound card), or to restart the windows audio service once in a while. None of these are any real solutions, Creative needs to fix this issue.

Anyways, that aside, I don't know what to reccomend; I would say ASUS, but I've heard ASUS has thier issues too, although I don't know what, specifically...

Basically, we're looking for an X-Fi card with upmixing support (like CMSS) that doesn't have the bullshit that Creative's cards have.

[Fourstaff]

Auzentech? They use Creative's processor.

[eidairaman1]

Sound cards

BGears, Auzentech, HT_Omega, Turtle Beach, Diamond, Asus

[hat]

Any specific models we should look at?

[eidairaman1]

BGears only has 1 model, HT Omega have several, Same with Asus, Turtle Beach, Auzentech. Diamond I am not sure about.

Just go up to the websites and look for yourself.

I Personally am thinking about a HT Omega Claro + or Claro Halo.

[hat]

We're looking for a tried and true solution. My uncle isn't exactly a sugar daddy and he can't afford to go through sound card after sound card until he finds one that actually works.

[eidairaman1]

all the others Excluding Auzentech are non Creative Labs DSP.

[hat]

Still looking for a recommendation for a specific model soundcard...

[eidairaman1]

All I can say now is check out the forums for the Card Manufacturers to see if they have any driver/software related techniques that do the same thing as CMSS.

[hat]

So far it looks like the Asus Xonar D2 is a good card. Does anyone know if it has the same memory leak issues as the Creative cards, and if it supports upmixing?

[hat]

So far it looks like the Asus Xonar D2 is a good card. Does anyone know if it has the same memory leak issues as the Creative cards, and if it supports upmixing?

Anyone? I know we have more sound card junkies at TPU than this...

[freaksavior]

I never had issues from my d2, or d2x, or my HDAV. I have a d2x i would sell and I have the majority of the drivers/software/accessories it came with.

[hat]

Ah, someone who's had personal experiance with the card... just what I'm looking for.

How's the upmixing support? We're looking to be able to have regular stereo content, like an mp3, upmixed to 5.1.

[SabreWulf69]

Personally got the ASUS Xonar Essence STX Soundcard recently and couldn't be more happier with it. I, too was fed up with Creative's less than stellar performance and driver reliability ever since I gave up my old SB Live! Value lol. I can't fault my card, and has been and excellent addition to my audio setup, but don't take my word for it -

Here if ya can be bothered please read some of the following reviews or opinions from many a respected source audio and computer industry wise -->

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=766494
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-stx-review/
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/asus_xonar_essence_stx/
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2339333,00.asp
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/asus-xonar-essence-stx.html
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/audio/asus_xonar_essence_stx_-_pci-e_audiophile_soundcard/8
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/asus_xonar_essence_stx
http://www.stereophile.com/computeraudio/asus_xonar_essence_ststx_soundcards/
http://www.avforums.com/forums/sound-cards-internal-audio-devices/1052206-asus-xonar-essence-stx-impressions.html

Apparently for my purpose (Playback using 2-Channel Audio + Analog out to my new high quality amp and speakers) it hands down beats the like of the Creative cards, themselves and the high end Creative cards by Auzentech, the M-Audio Audiophile 192 Card, ESI Juli@, any onboard by absolute miles, and at least on par if not better than some High-End music production cards from the likes of RME and LYNX.

Also passes through surround sound through SP/DIF and TOSLINK connection in case you were wondering.

[Mussels]

anything with C-media chipsets can be changed to do upmixing very easily, although you have to turn it on and off.

5.1 as 5.1 (audio only comes out where source specifies)
http://img.techpowerup.org/100510/Capture652.jpg

2 channel gets upmixed.
http://img.techpowerup.org/100510/Capture653.jpg


its not automatic, but none of them are anyway... creatives CMSS 3D for example, fucks with programs that already have surround sound - your front audio comes from all speakers at once, destroying positional audio for movies and games.

[mdsx1950]

Using a ASUS D2X. I recommend.

http://blog.hawkhost.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/thumbsupag3.jpg

Or else theres another card called HT Omega Claro 7.1+ and some other cards that have good specs. Check the HT Omegas out as well. ;)

[RejZoR]

For stereo:
ASUS Xonar Essence ST or STX (PCI and PCIe)

For surround:
ASUS Xonar D2X
Auzentech X-Fi Prelude (PCI)
Auzentech X-Fi Forte (PCIe)

For gaming:
Auzentech X-Fi Prelude (PCI)
Auzentech X-Fi Forte (PCIe)

[Mussels]

you dont need an x-fi for gaming, EAX is dead these days. all that matters is whether you want analogue or digital - digital? get a card with encoding that your speakers support.

analogue? get a card with good sounding outputs. Even the C-media based auzens are great here, trust me as i own one. EAX is worthless in todays gaming world, and you get stable drivers that will be updated for years to come

(i have a C-media 8760 sound card here that was old when i first went XP, and its got updated drivers for windows 7 with all features working. creative sure as hell don't do that)

[freaksavior]

Ah, someone who's had personal experiance with the card... just what I'm looking for.

How's the upmixing support? We're looking to be able to have regular stereo content, like an mp3, upmixed to 5.1.

I ran mostly 5.1 through it all most all the time. So mixing it up from 2, to 5.1, i used a receiver for that.

[RejZoR]

Mussels, you couldn't be more wrong. If you think EAX is dead, you should check the games again. There is a lot of them that still support it. Plus, there is excellent ALchemy for legacy games that nearly all have EAX. Very useful if you play older games even today (like me). And some games sound even better through ALchemy (all Source based games). Performance is also slightly better when 128 sounds are used (games are slightly snapier than with Essence STX, even on Core i7 920).
And the last thing where nothing can touch X-Fi cards in gaming is CMSS-3D. A 3D positioning algorithm, blend of Sensaura, Aureal A3D and some other technologies that deliver the best sound positioning you can think of in games. No hard sound shifting regardless of speakers number (be it only 2.0 or 7.1), what's behind you actually sound slike it without being overdone. What's in front of you sounds like it, whats above sounds different than below (Elevation Filter). MacroFX delivers trully amazing "rendering" of sound effects at very close ranges (rocket flying by your head or car passing you). I had Essence STX which is C-Media based and it was good sound, but it just cannot mach sound precision found on X-Fi powered soundcards. It just doesn't sound as perfect as X-Fi.

If you're alergic to Creative, go with Auzentech. They seem to care a bit more about customers, though i never had problems with Creative drivers...

[Mussels]

oh i have alchemy universal, so i still get EAX if i need it... but it makes none of my games sound better, and without the old monopoly (if you didnt have EAX you didnt get 5.1 sound), there is simply no reason for it.

I do not feel like i am missing a thing with EAX disabled.

[btarunr]

Auzentech X-Fi Forte 7.1. Great price for the DACs and AMP circuit.

[kenkickr]

I had a Asus Xonar D2X I absolutely loved but needed the PCI-E slot for another graphics card. Unbelievable crisp sound with nice tight bass on my Z-5300's and the damn best surround sound I've ever heard out of the cards I've had in the past. I've had a XtremeGamer Fatality, XtremeGamer, Titanium Fatality, and then the D2X. When I have the money I'm hopefully gonna get the D2 since I still have a PCI slot I can use.

[FordGT90Concept]

anything with C-media chipsets can be changed to do upmixing very easily, although you have to turn it on and off.

5.1 as 5.1 (audio only comes out where source specifies)
http://img.techpowerup.org/100510/Capture652.jpg

2 channel gets upmixed.
http://img.techpowerup.org/100510/Capture653.jpg


its not automatic, but none of them are anyway... creatives CMSS 3D for example, fucks with programs that already have surround sound - your front audio comes from all speakers at once, destroying positional audio for movies and games.
HT OMEGA Striker 7.1 here and that's what it looks like. No complaints from me, really.

[Cybrnook]

Im going to second/third/fourth the Xonar D2X. I had it for quite a few months then sold it here in the forums. I loved it (Win 7 64), and my buyer loves/loved it as well. Drivers were superb, no memory leaks and CRYSTAL CLEAR sound! (Great for music, movies , surround, gaming)

[claylomax]

What's a good soundcard? Mine. :D

[alexsubri]

Wow, I'm suprised noboday said Creative SB X-FI...I've been using that for years. Work's amazingly..I have Realtek 7.1 HD now which is from my motherboard, it works okay. Prefer after-market sound cards tho.

I will buying this one next year, as well as some other things too :)

Creative PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series Sound Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102021&cm_re=sound_blaster_x-fi_titanium_fatal1ty-_-29-102-021-_-Product)

Also, I have been using these speakers for about 4 years and they never let me down!


Creative Inspire I-Trigue 3300 Active 2.1 Acoustic System (http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/creative-i-trigue/)

http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/i-trigue/all.jpg

[freaksavior]

Im going to second/third/fourth the Xonar D2X. I had it for quite a few months then sold it here in the forums. I loved it (Win 7 64), and my buyer loves/loved it as well. Drivers were superb, no memory leaks and CRYSTAL CLEAR sound! (Great for music, movies , surround, gaming)

Yes, drivers work! unlike creative crap.

;)you should buy my d2x:rolleyes:

[hat]

Wow, I'm suprised noboday said Creative SB X-FI...I've been using that for years. Work's amazingly..I have Realtek 7.1 HD now which is from my motherboard, it works okay. Prefer after-market sound cards tho.

I will buying this one next year, as well as some other things too :)

Creative PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series Sound Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102021&cm_re=sound_blaster_x-fi_titanium_fatal1ty-_-29-102-021-_-Product)

Also, I have been using these speakers for about 4 years and they never let me down!


Creative Inspire I-Trigue 3300 Active 2.1 Acoustic System (http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/creative-i-trigue/)

http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/i-trigue/all.jpg

Did you read the first post? This whole thread's purpose is pretty much to recommend specific sound cards that aren't Creative.

[hat]

What's a good soundcard? Mine. :D

The DS looks like a nice, cheaper solution. Do you have upmixing support in the drivers?

[roast]

What's the ASIO support/performance like on the Xonars?

[Ra97oR]

There is bit-prefect auto bitrate matching in Xonar Essence working now, no issues with it at all. Works as intended.

[SabreWulf69]

Mussels, you couldn't be more wrong. If you think EAX is dead, you should check the games again. There is a lot of them that still support it. Plus, there is excellent ALchemy for legacy games that nearly all have EAX. Very useful if you play older games even today (like me). And some games sound even better through ALchemy (all Source based games). Performance is also slightly better when 128 sounds are used (games are slightly snapier than with Essence STX, even on Core i7 920).
And the last thing where nothing can touch X-Fi cards in gaming is CMSS-3D. A 3D positioning algorithm, blend of Sensaura, Aureal A3D and some other technologies that deliver the best sound positioning you can think of in games. No hard sound shifting regardless of speakers number (be it only 2.0 or 7.1), what's behind you actually sound slike it without being overdone. What's in front of you sounds like it, whats above sounds different than below (Elevation Filter). MacroFX delivers trully amazing "rendering" of sound effects at very close ranges (rocket flying by your head or car passing you). I had Essence STX which is C-Media based and it was good sound, but it just cannot mach sound precision found on X-Fi powered soundcards. It just doesn't sound as perfect as X-Fi.

If you're alergic to Creative, go with Auzentech. They seem to care a bit more about customers, though i never had problems with Creative drivers...

I do prefer Dolby Digital for my games over EAX, is subjective as once again most things are with sound. If you had cared to read the numerous reviews of the STX given, then you would have seen that the STX is *almost* on par for games, and superior for music and movies. I do music production and listen to a massive variety of music, and as stated for my uses it suites me perfectly :-) I have "bit-perfection" working perfectly too, and don't see how anyone else shouldn't either. For a description of bit-perfect and bit-accurate playback refer to this article --> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=1887477#post1887477

[RejZoR]

Because STX does have good raw sound quality, but quite crappy sound positioning in games. That's why. And i don't see any comparison between EAX and Dolby Digital. They are both sound technologies but they can't even be compared. Dolby Digital is just an encoder, EAX is an entire sound library that includes 3D sound positioning, reflection, refraction, occlusion, environmental effects etc. Something Dolby Digital doesn't perform on sound. It just encodes it into a specific digital stream. That's all. It's like encoding an MP3. As far as i can see, you can have both on Auzentech X-Fi Forte. All the X-Fi goodies and also DDL! or DTS Connect. Haven't tried it as i don't have reciever at home, but the features are there under Gaming Mode.

[SabreWulf69]

Hmm interesting reads --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_audio_extensions , heh is like MIDI with DSP effects, interesting. And finally Dolby Digital --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital

[RejZoR]

Erm, no. You read the EAX 1.0 feature set and stopped there. Hardly any game is using EAX 1.0. The biggest EAX boom was with EAX 2.0. And this one also offers material specific effects and occlusion (if something is in the way, the sound is different).
Most of games developed today use EAX 4.0 HD and some even EAX 5.0 though not so many. Probably because EAX 4.0 is much more widely supported (Audigy 2 up to highest X-Fi models), while EAX 5.0 is only supported on X-Fi cards (excluding X-Fi MB, X-Fi Xtreme Audio and Auzentech X-Fi Bravura).

[Mussels]

Erm, no. You read the EAX 1.0 feature set and stopped there. Hardly any game is using EAX 1.0. The biggest EAX boom was with EAX 2.0. And this one also offers material specific effects and occlusion (if something is in the way, the sound is different).
Most of games developed today use EAX 4.0 HD and some even EAX 5.0 though not so many. Probably because EAX 4.0 is much more widely supported (Audigy 2 up to highest X-Fi models), while EAX 5.0 is only supported on X-Fi cards (excluding X-Fi MB, X-Fi Xtreme Audio and Auzentech X-Fi Bravura).

find me a list of modern games (2009-2010) that use EAX 4.0


most games these days use other sound systems, and not EAX.

[SabreWulf69]

Sounds a lot like PhysX for Sound lol EAX primarily for Creative but can be emulated just like PhysX can be emulated for AMD/ATI. Manufacturer specific technologies like this suck, Dolby Digital may not be the same but the wide acceptance of it should be something Creative need to follow.

Guess thats why they are phasing EAX out if I'm not mistaken, "According to Creative's OpenAL 1.1 specification, EAX should be considered deprecated as developer interface.".

I know it all sounded like MIDI, I work constantly with it, if you don't know what MIDI is, by the way MIDI is data, not audio, OK, maybe EAX is like a Sampler then lol But again I quote "A person who has been exposed to MIDI effects processors will quickly recognize the parameters that EAX controls, and the names of many of the presets."

"The aim of EAX has nothing to do with 3D audio positioning." Also lol the guitar pedals at TAFE have these
Flange
Echo
Distortion

I would personally rather have individual sound systems in games that anyone can run to full advantage being able to see truly what developers can make by themselves unassisted by hardware accelerated EAX.

Alas, re-iterating what I said, ASUS Xonar Essence STX for Music and Movies, and Auzentech Cards using Creative's X-Fi Chipset for your EAX 3.0+ Games, if you can stomach the drivers, which obviously as mentioned from the creator of this thread and just like me, cannot.

[RejZoR]

No, no and again no. Can a guitar pedal perform all 3 effects in mention simultaneously on 128 separate sounds that also take reflection, refraction, occlusion and differentr materials into account? I think it can't. You ppl also don't seem to understand what EAX really is. You think it's just a bunch of post process effects like echo, while in reality that's far from true. What was A3D then? Nothing at all since it wasn't even using any kind of sound post processing apart from sound tracing that doesn't apply environmental effects.

EAX consists of the engine that does the 3D positioning part and the environmental effects.
That's what EAX really is. But you all throw everything in the same bucket. It's just a bunch of useless effects yadidadida. As a hardocre FPS gamer, i can tell you that nothing comes close to X-Fi in terms of sound positioning. A3D years ago on Vortex 2 chips could compete with it, but nothing else can these days. Not ADI, not C-Media or any other vendor.

I also don't know why all complain about drivers so much. They are updated just as often as ASUS drivers or any others. I also had 5 Creative soundscards from SB Live!, Audigy 2 Value, X-Fi MB, X-Fi Xtreme Music and now Auzentech X-Fi Forte on 3 different platforms, 3 different operating systems (not including 32bit/64bit change) and not a single issue with drivers.
Days of shitty problems with Creative cards on awful nForce boards are long over.

I don't know why you're (Mussels) spreading this religion about EAX being dead (i just found posts almost 1 year old). It's just not dead.

Look at this if you have hard time understanding EAX:
http://www.creative.com/soundblaster/technology/welcome.aspx

I currently don't have time to look for the names of the games but i can look in the evening...

[Mussels]

i know exactly what EAX is, and the only reason it ever took off was because when they sponsored someone, they didnt allow the games to do surround sound without EAX.

EAX gives you occlusion*, reverb*, positional audio*, and hardware acceleration^

*all available on other sound engines
^only on XP, unless you use alchemy, which is fairly unreliable and is just emulated anyway.

[SabreWulf69]

Thankyou and fully agreed Mussels :-)

Eh, if Wikipedia wasn't good enough I'll email Creative and see what they say, there pages are vague at best.

MIDI Basics, MIDI is in simple terms a way to communicate between 2 devices.

I've studied effects at TAFE, the basic parts of reverb contain: Pre-delay, Early Reflections, L.P.F., H.P.F., Reverb Time and "Mix" amount ala how wet or dry a signal is, which in the EAX would all be processed if not EXACTLY the same then very similarly to MIDI. Then there is delay with MIDI, (one sound happens then another follows) Delay-time (ms), Rate, Feedback and Mix, yet again all very familiar sounding with this EAX "Science".

1 byte, 8 bits = 1 MIDI Message or "Voice"

Plus the vague descriptions of specific effects, which some of which still sound like the workings of MIDI commands. Number of voices for one is from MIDI. MIDI can add multiple effects all at one time. MIDI processes the following for example when a key is pressed on a keyboard synth - Note on, Note off, Note that's pressed, Note Velocity and Amount of time note is pressed.

MIDI Is 128 "Voices" being 0-127

Or split into Voices / Channels / Intruments / Channel Messages and other Messages

FlexiFX sounds like a solution for a poorly coded game. With my old stock motherboard soundcard I haven't really noticed my bullets not existing compared to my mates X-Fi. Sounds like all coded game effects, why the heck is EAX so special then, all these new games already do all this, unless the game programmers haven't bothered. What exact point am I missing?

Mod may have to remove thread basher, guy has his views, wants something with upmixing and something like CMSS which sounds something like what DTS Neo PC can achieve or maybe Pro Logic, and you're junking the thread with irrelevant information, please correct me if I'm wrong hat, as I find this has far detracted from the original point of the thread, and am myself guilty of random blabbering on about my sound stuff lol.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

If you are SOOOOOOO against going with a Creative Labs card then just try out this Asus Xonar DS. It uses DTS NEO PC to mix 2 channel audio to as much as 7.1 and supports 192khz audio over all 7.1 channels. Right now it is about $40 bucks after rebate.

ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Inter... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132013)

[RejZoR]

i know exactly what EAX is, and the only reason it ever took off was because when they sponsored someone, they didnt allow the games to do surround sound without EAX.

EAX gives you occlusion*, reverb*, positional audio*, and hardware acceleration^

*all available on other sound engines
^only on XP, unless you use alchemy, which is fairly unreliable and is just emulated anyway.

I don't want to argue because you're clearly against Creative and EAX no matter what, but you again prove that you're mistaken. In modern games, no one is using DirectSound3D as underaying api. OpenAL supported games make use of EAX natively under Vista and Win7.
I can say for EA that they use OpenAL in nearly all games.

[SabreWulf69]

aLchemy Games -
http://connect.creativelabs.com/alchemy/Lists/Games/AllItems.aspx

OpenAL Games -
http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/OpenAL%20Wiki/Games.aspx

[RejZoR]

You also have to take into account the fact that anything based on Unreal Engine 3 also supports OpenAL automatically. And we know UE 3 powered games are very common these days.

[GotNoRice]

You should look up the Support Pack drivers by Daniel_K. They are not supported by creative but hosted by them none the less. They fixed all of my issues with my X-Fi Titanium.

[SabreWulf69]

Isn't Unreal Engine 3 able to use OpenAL, DirectSound3D or FMOD?