3850 AGP OC'ing, Vmods, experiences, suggestions, where to buy

[Harlock]

I had to repeat the test to grab also the details and ...........

Same config.

x11 Multiplier

294Mhz FSB

His 3850Agp @824/1035

12349 points!!!! New Record

[65tweet]

Hello all. Well an update on my 3850 and hopefully a bit of help here. My 3850 died and I had to RMA it. my replacement came and I installed the 8.9 hotfix drivers at the same time. The good news is everything is working great. The open GL issues I had are gone and everything seems to work super :rockout:. No lockups with overclocking utilities anymore and I'm free to now experiment. With stock cooling and voltage my top clocks are 810/900 @ 74 degrees. I have no doubt with a voltage bump to 3870 specs things would move up but there's not much point considering my CPU.

One thing that is different about the new sapphire cards is the BIOS. All the 2D/3D clocks are the same, there are no "modes" that change. I don't think my clocks ever changed with my old card anyway but I had no reliable way to tell.

Now for a bit of help or maybe clarification. It's my understanding that 3800 series cards take the load from the CPU for hidef video. I was hoping to convert this rig into a HTPC, but this doesn't seem to be possible. HIDEF video uses about 65% CPU and 0-1% GPU. Playback is very choppy and unwatchable. Shouldn't the GPU take considerably more load? Is this a problem with having an AGP card? Or is there something I need to download? I have the latest CCC and have messed with AVIVO settings among others but there is no change at all. I think even if my CPU holds me back there still should be more work being done by the GPU. I'm Getting the GPU utilization #'s from CCC and GPU Z, the CPU #'s from the task manager.

edit:
I'm also using XP do I need vista to get "full" functionality? If so then I don't think I'll be fixing this problem.

[InnocentCriminal]

What software are you using for your HD stuff? To quote the AMD website...

Unified Video Decoder – View and manipulate the latest Blu-ray and HD DVD content with a dedicated hardware video decoder that leaves your CPU free to perform other tasks.

Well, we know that isn't working, hopefully it's not an AGP issue but a software based one. You could always try the 8.10 beta (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=72655) - might help.

[65tweet]

I've tried 6-7 programs for video playback and decoding but none of them make any difference. Is it because I am playing a file rather that a blue-ray or HD disk? The sapphire websiete also says this:

HDCP support for playback of protected content requires connection to a HDCP capable display
and
Blu-ray/HD DVD playback requires Blu-ray/HD-DVD drive and playback software.

I tried a 1080P TV but had to use a normal monitor cable due to lack of a HDMI port on the card. It still shouldn't matter because I'm not playing protected content though. This seems like just a software problem but nothing utilizes the GPU:banghead:. At this time I'm not willing to buy a blue-ray drive just to troubleshoot...

[65tweet]

After more research I think I know what the problem is...

AVIVO does not offer any actual decoding software, it only allows decoder developers to utilize the DXVA API.

DXVA 2.0 allows video capturing and processing operations to be hardware accelerated, but DXVA 2.0 is available only on Windows Vista.

I plan on doing more research but I don't think I will have any luck. I cant get a SATA driver for my mobo or RAID card that works in vista and I can't see myself buying an IDE drive to install vista so I can try and play hidef video.

On the other hand I do have an old 5200RPM 15Gb IDE drive laying around...maybe this weekend I'll try vista again :rolleyes:

Edit: was bored and decided to try Vista to see what happens. I now know that vista requires 15.5Gb of free disk space to install :slap: soooo close maybe it just wasn't meant to be....Grr:banghead:

[InnocentCriminal]

>.<

Sorry to hear that dude, you could always install vLite and make a streamlined version of Vista removing all the crap and bloat allowing you to use your 15GB HDD.

[Harlock]

I'm able to install 8.8 WDM driver but not 8.9 WDM, somebody got my same problem? The error is "There is no compatible Hardware"

[65tweet]

Are you using the hotfix drivers? I get the same if I use the regular drivers.
Link: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31625

@innocent: Will using Vista lite get rid of the 15.5 GB warning that is preventing me from installing it? If so I'll read up and give it a shot.

[InnocentCriminal]

@innocent: Will using Vista lite get rid of the 15.5 GB warning that is preventing me from installing it? If so I'll read up and give it a shot.

Yeah man, what you do is end up making 'your own version' of Vista. So, in your case you could remove all the bs programs and services are installed by default. If you really set yourself to it you could always make one the manual way and really bring the belly of the beast down.

[65tweet]

Cool I'll look into it here soon. I just about exhausted my options finding a workaround in XP for hardware acceleration. Plus it's getting old quick...soo many options/software combos, but no luck with any of them.

VISTA...can't avoid it forever I guess.

[Harlock]

@65tweet

Are you using the hotfix drivers? I get the same if I use the regular drivers.
Link: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/d...estionID=31625

Yes, the link that you have posted is just for drivers and ccc. wdm is in a separate package

[Harlock]

Hey guys, new records!!!!

12449 points in 3Dmarks2006

[65tweet]

Ok so I have Vista installed and am deaing with all the associated crap. I still dont have hardware acceleration but this doesnt supprise hearing that since the 8.6 hotfix release something has been broken in this respect. So my delema now is where can I download the 8.5 VISTA hotfix drivers?
I can find the regular 8.5's and 8.6 hotfix all over the place but all I run into for 8.5 hotfix is dead ends or links to 8.9:mad: Sombody please help me here.

I've been running vista fo almost 4 hours now and I feel like ripping out the harddrive:banghead:. Next for the tweeks...

[InnocentCriminal]

I can send you the 8.5's if you like. ^^ Also have the 8.4's.

[65tweet]

I decided to look one last time before taking you up on your offer and found a couple of downloads. Weird... Thanks anyways.

I'm really hoping to get acceleration working on this card but it seems that most people with AGP have the same problem.

[InnocentCriminal]

Not a problem, shout me if you need me.

[Torzi]

Heya... been lurking around this post since I got a 3850 back in August (and it still don't work right ;) ), but I'm much better off with the info I've found here. Thought I'd attempt to give a little back.

With regards to DXVA... you just need a decoder that supports it. To my knowledge, there are only 2 at the moment:

1) Cyberlink's PowerDVD Codecs, which actually are absolute junk, especially since they expect you to pay a lot for them, and they don't even work right (vids play smooth, but still at 100% CPU).

2) Or Media Player Classic - HomeCinema edition. This is what I use, and it definitely has some quirks, but it works well as long as your video is encoded to conform to DXVA (which a LOT of H264 content packed in MKVs on the net are not, but people are getting better about this lately). I haven't had any problems at all with VC-1 content.

Get it here:
http://tibrium.neuf.fr/DXVASupport.html
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=170561

Set it up in Playback-->Output to use VMR9 (renderless) in XP, or EVR in Vista with .NET 3.0+ Installed. Set Surface to 3D surfaces, and resizer to Bicubic A=1.00. Under Internal Filters, make sure everything is checked (you want to use the built in splitters/codecs ONLY!). If you have ffdshow or any other third-party codecs set to auto-load, you'll need to either disable them or lower their merit (with something like RadLight filter manager)

You can confirm DXVA is working by right clicking on the video once it's playing, and under Filters, you should see "MPC Video Decoder". Select it, and on the first property page you see it'll say whether DXVA is active or not. Or...just look at your CPU use. I run an old Athlon XP Mobile, but it still doesn't go above 5-10% CPU when it's active. (Otherwise, HD content is completely unplayable for me)

There's a newer version of the player packed with CCCP (google), but they disable the hardware decoders by default for some odd reason.

Hope that helps...

[eidairaman1]

i remember being able to use .MOV in WMP10 with the proper codec, was it QT Alternative? or was it QT Lite?

[Torzi]

MOV is just the container (like MKV, AVI, etc). You just need a filter that can split the internal streams and port them to the proper codecs. There are a bunch available, and you can set it through your DirectShow filters to split/play them through any media player by default, but it can get confusing. Media Player Classic will also handle MOV files internally though, so you don't have to mess with the codec setup.

A good example of this are the apple MOV files on this site for HD trailers (which are also DXVA compliant, and a good source for testing your codecs/HD playback)(besides just being cool to watch)
http://www.hd-trailers.net/

The quicktime clips have 1 video stream of MP4/H264 (which will be accelerated w/ the right codec), and 1 AAC audio track.

[Thrash2k8]

113-AB43300-104 RV670 GDDR3_16MX32 256BIT 512MB 669E/829M

This bios seems to have the Hash strings from 3870 upto 4870x2 bioses
not sure if this has been posted before but here they are Original and Modded version

300-700 - 650-800 - 700-900 clocks set

works a treat although im not sure if the fan settings are correct so maybe play with them a bit for what suits you.

[DTV DRAGON]

iam thinking of trying the modded bios posted above on my sapphire hd3850agp card as iam haveing some probs just wondering if winflas 2012 is the best for me to use and is there a big risk in my scewing up my card if i try this? Ive searched for some simple steps on how to do this , and couldnt realy find anythig so if one of you experts can chime in I would be very greatful before i try to do this, As well my new psu will be here today so iam hopeing that it will help with my freezing probs, even screen savers will freeze my system as well most games, was never like this from new and had excellent 3dmark scores but for past month cant get through any bench's or run a screen saver , so i was told that maybe my psu was getting weks and that was my prob, we will find out for sure today but if not i want to try this new modded bios or any other suggestions you may have . feel bad my daughter cannot even play her sims2 anymore! but like i said when i first go tthe card it worked mint for months up until the past month or so thanx Dragon

[DTV DRAGON]

well installed new psu and still same prob, freezes up even with a graphic intense screen saver, i tried to run lightsmark benchmark utility and it made it through it for about 8 seconds then froze but the music kept on playing, Do you guys think that maybe it is my sound card that is conflicting somehow, , the psu was a real waist of money seeing that it didnt help squat any other suggestion that you guys may have for me, ive even tried just installing the ati driver alone and not the ccc utility and that was the same. Ive ran out of things that i know to try Iam hopeing someone might have an answer, funny thing was it worked excellent when i purchased it thanx everyone Dragon

[DTV DRAGON]

update.... i went into ccc and changed the agp from 8x to 4x and ran my lightmark2008 again and all went perfect without a hicup, even got a higher score than what I used to when the card was new, I dont know twhat this means so maybe someone ccan tell me whats up thanx Dragon

[eidairaman1]

different latencies, with the 8X bus you have a slightly higher latency due to the wider bus, but overall the 8x bus can handle way more data per cycle.

[DTV DRAGON]

so why does the card only run on 4x now? when it was new for about 6-7 months i had it on 8x and theree was no probs, so what would cause this? is there anything I can do to get it to run back at 8x again like before? Dragon

[InnocentCriminal]

Have you set the card to run at 8x in your motherboard BIOS and not through CCC?

[DTV DRAGON]

yes it had always been set to 8x in bios this just started to happen about 1 month ago I cant see why

[DTV DRAGON]

actuall had a look in bios now and there wasnt any place to change from 8x to 4x etc.. but it runs perfect in 4x for kicks this morning i set it back to 8x and ran a lightmark bench and made it through for about 8 seconds then froze but it back to 4x and ran through with good score ,iam now going to try and run a 3dmark05 later to see if i can get through that and what type of score i get I guess being stable at 4x is ok but i want my 8x back like it used to be wonder what happened for this to only run in 4x wierd Dragon

[DTV DRAGON]

one question iam i better off getting a connector that goes from my 6 pin pci e to a 8 pin pcie connector that would work on my hd3850 card? or just use the supplied two- 4 pin connector to 8 pin pcie connector? wich would supply more power
as an update its running excellent with 8.6 catalyst drivers and agp 4x. my top 3dmark05 score is 10100 wich was evern higher than what it used to be when it ran on 8x so i see no decrease in performance whatsoever please chime in you experts thanx Dragon

[InnocentCriminal]

Even though the 3850 is fine with only a 6pin connector, I've always used the 8pin.

[InnocentCriminal]

For those of you with the AGP version of the 3850 and want to get these and 8.11's to install, this is whatcha have to do...

1.) Extract the driver package, you can run it as it'll fail anyway...

http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20808&stc=1&d=1228934935

2.) Open the file INSTALL.ini in your ATi directory e.g. C:\ATI\SUPPORT\8-12_xp32_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_72271\Driver\

3.) Find the following text 0x9505:0x25421002 and replace it with 0x9515:0x0028174B - save!

4.) Now, in the same directory, open the CX_70226.INI file and do the same as option 3. Replace 0x9505:0x25421002 with 0x9515:0x0028174B.

5.) Now go to the XP_INF folder and open the CX_70226.INF file and find "ATI Radeon HD 3850" = ati2mtag_RV630, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9505&SUBSYS_25421002 entry and replace 9505&SUBSYS_25421002 with 9515&SUBSYS_0028174B.

6.) Once you've made all these changes, don't extract the files again as your efforts will be other written, just run the setup file that's already been extracted.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20809&stc=1&d=1228935639
This is actually the 8.12 RC3, I'll update this at some point.

Now it should install flawlessly on your 3850 AGP - if people want me to do earlier cards PM and I'll do what I can.

Enjoy!

[k0rn_h0li0]

got the card today.

put it in and used the cd that came with it. i think it was 8.6?

didn't do anything with it cause i'm reading all these posts with people who have problems.

i tried to convert a movie and it only gave me 70fps. currently 2.4ghz opteron 240 with 2gigs of ECC ram.

note: i didn't put my 2nd core in my other cpu2 slot. anyone have any ideas on what i can do with this card?

i see a lot of people trying to do soemthing with 8.1?? what are you guys attempting?

[InnocentCriminal]

Try the new 8.12 hotfix (http://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=31625) you'll need to download the AVIVO (http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=mce/aiwradeonx-mce) separately I would have thought.

[instron]

i just found the sweet spot for my powercolor hd3850 agp,i had to set it to 4x in smartgart
but in the bios i changed the hex number in the agp strength to c2 and now it runs stable
in 8x and a merry christmas to me;).my chipset is a via kt800.Hopefully that hex number will work for others if not it shows that you can fix the problem with that example.when i let the
bios figure it i got 9b.

[Mailman]

I too have a via chipset (KV8T800Pro). What driver(s) work with your Powercolor HD3850 AGP card. Much of the advice I have seen is steering me away from the powercolor card to the sapphire card (because of the Via MB issues reported in some forums). Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Edit: What does changing the agp strength to c2 actually do?

System: Athlon64 3400+, 1.25 GB RAM, XP Home.

[instron]

Im using the 8.12 drivers and the c2 im using is in my bios for agp strength.the reason i looked for a fix was i couldnt get above 4x in the smartgart tab without crashing,so it as i see it raising it 2 hex numbers raised the agp signal enough to make the 8x smartgart work.It works
flawlessly in every game i tried,as far as benchmarks i seen very little boost but as far as
texturing it looks a lot better.I need to know if anybody has a file called atiokax.dll in windows
system with a single hd3850.and yes i know the file is for a hd3850x2.

[DRDNA]

lol...This card is an easy to notice faster than my X850XT PE ! I am using the ATI driver and CCC >>8-12agp-hotfix_xp32_dd_ccc_72281 installed right over the top of the Normal 8.12 suite . I am also using RivaTuner222 .All is working very well so far.
I am using RivaTuner for fan control(100%) and GPU overclocks 799/1001 .
The 799/1001 brings GPU up to 55-57 C° at friggin idle... :eek: ...but the plus about the temps is while gaming (NFSMW) max and the likes is only 62 C° max:rockout:...Well now all is working but the set up is a bit different than any other ATI card as for the software ...I like ATITOOL.exe better than Riva but thats probably more due to my comfort level with ATITOOL as its always been a very good friend to me and every one of my set ups such as my first 9600XT then my X800XT PE then my X850XT PE then my X1800XTX Single then my X1800XTX crossfire then my X1950XTX Single then my X1950XTX crossfire And then my (I have not set it up on my HD 4870 X2 yest as its down waiting for a part to come back from rma) and now this 3850 AG is the only one for which i do not use the ATITOOL:( but at least every thing is working and as usual no horror experience with using an ATI card.

[kiriakost]

I have my Sapphire 3850 AGP on order...
And i like to know if possible , what are the most accurate software to monitor the GPU temperature ?

My question are not generic , does the latest driver release favors any temperature monitor application more than others ?


By the way .. the driver 8-12agp-hotfix_xp32_dd_ccc_72281 , has other structure as files,
and the above method of editing files, are not possible.

The success story of DRDNA , shows that the 8-12agp-hotfix , its a large step of progress comparing the past releases . :D

[InnocentCriminal]

I have my Sapphire 3850 AGP on order...
And i like to know if possible , what are the most accurate software to monitor the GPU temperature ?

I use a multitude of programs to monitor my temperatures, GPU-Z, Hardware Monitor, Speedfan and RivaTuner.

My question are not generic , does the latest driver release favors any temperature monitor application more than others ?

I haven't seen any improvement in CCC when it comes to temperature reading. :(

By the way .. the driver 8-12agp-hotfix_xp32_dd_ccc_72281 , has other structure as files,
and the above method of editing files, are not possible.

That's because it's not for the AGP hotfix, the whole point of my tutorial is for installing the, if you will, PCIe drivers. It would completely defeat the point to enable AGP support in a AGP hotfix.

;P

The success story of DRDNA , shows that the 8-12agp-hotfix , its a large step of progress comparing the past releases . :D[/QUOTE]

[kiriakost]

That's because it's not for the AGP hotfix, the whole point of my tutorial is for installing the, if you will, PCIe drivers. It would completely defeat the point to enable AGP support in a AGP hotfix.

;P



Ok , i got it , i had to read three times the text , but i did ..

In simple words, "PCIe drivers fix" for use on AGP systems.

But this time, ATI - AMD gave both releases simultaneously ( driver 8-12) ,
so there no need for any fix tip..

But thanks , its good to know . ;)

[eidairaman1]

Hey man the 8.12 Hotfix drivers work for my machine.

I use a multitude of programs to monitor my temperatures, GPU-Z, Hardware Monitor, Speedfan and RivaTuner.



I haven't seen any improvement in CCC when it comes to temperature reading. :(



That's because it's not for the AGP hotfix, the whole point of my tutorial is for installing the, if you will, PCIe drivers. It would completely defeat the point to enable AGP support in a AGP hotfix.

;P

The success story of DRDNA , shows that the 8-12agp-hotfix , its a large step of progress comparing the past releases . :D[/QUOTE]

[kiriakost]

Got my card today :toast: i act all day, like a small child from my enthusiasm .

I have so much positive to say , but i will stay to basics :D

I have one old but very healthy - speedy - top components - setup .
The Sapphire HD 3850 replaced my old powerful MSI 6800GT , one of the most expensive VGA in this class. (357 EUR before three years )

The truth is that this VGA upgrade was made just from emotional reasons than need , the Nvidia had play any game that i had throw at it at 1024x768 with out filters.

The New ..
Loaded the drivers , no problems at all.
I selected to use also the CCC , as its something totally new to me.
I liked that it controls the fan , i never had fan control on VGA until today :p
I explored the ATI Overdrive and got core speed 709 + mem speed 860

Temperature and cooler .
External temp 17C
Room temp 21C
Idle 37 - 41C
Load 65-70C
Cooler noise on idle = not bad
Cooler noise on load , gets suppressed by the CPU fan.

3Dmark 06 5567 marks HD3850
3Dmark 06 2400 marks 6800GT

Oblivion - 1600x1200 default quality settings 30-60 FPS Ammaaazziinngg :D
Oblivion - 1600x1200 default quality settings + HDR 30-60 FPS

COD5 - 1600x1200 default quality settings 25-40 PFS

3Dmark 06 - fps at 1024x768 22 - 32 ( its the first 3Dmark score that i get with good numbers until now , in my life ) .
Explanation .. 3Dmark was always in front of the current hardware, so i had use to,
getting sluggish scores , and low FPS .
All my tests was on VGA stock clocks.

The card its on my box , for only 6 hours , and i will need some time to get full control of it.

So far i am very happy with the current horse power , its more than double , than before.

[lemonadesoda]

kiri,

you might be interested in this thread: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=57401

some benchmarks there. see how you compare.

You can get 750/1000 clocks on AGP 3850 with a decent aftermarket cooler! :) (manual not autodrive)

[kiriakost]

Thanks man , nice link :toast:

kiri,

:) (manual not autodrive) :D:D:D

[kiriakost]

Looks that my Sapphire AGP card came with new Bios on it ...

Also looks to be stepped down in memory clocks , than older releases .

I had not remove the cooler to see what memory chips haves .
I spent mostly time to check if it is healthy as is , and it is . :)

When i load my Bios to RBE it show 830 Mhz memory speed ??? at boot .

Here is the GPU Z screen .
Notice : it register it self with PCIe ID .. Adding complete driver compatibility , with any Catalyst PCIe or AGP version.

[B_RoDaS]

Looks that my Sapphire AGP card came with new Bios on it ...

Also looks to be stepped down in memory clocks , than older releases .

I had not remove the cooler to see what memory chips haves .
I spent mostly time to check if it is healthy as is , and it is . :)

When i load my Bios to RBE it show 830 Mhz memory speed ??? at boot .

Here is the GPU Z screen .
Notice : it register it self with PCIe ID .. Adding complete driver compatibility , with any Catalyst PCIe or AGP version.

My sapphire has the same bios...the memory chips are hynix H5RS5223CFR-N0C rated at 1000mhz.

But I don't now why I only can oc mem at 792mhz (AtiTool Stable). Maybe there are any bios problem or simply memory chips are in undervoltage.

kiriakost can you tell what's your max stable memory oc?

I'm curious if my card has any problem or it is really the max that memory chips can do.

[kiriakost]

My sapphire has the same bios...the memory chips are hynix H5RS5223CFR-N0C rated at 1000mhz.

But I don't now why I only can oc mem at 792mhz (AtiTool Stable). Maybe there are any bios problem or simply memory chips are in undervoltage.

kiriakost can you tell what's your max stable memory oc?

I'm curious if my card has any problem or it is really the max that memory chips can do.

Hi friend , define the word " stable " ?

[B_RoDaS]

Hi! without artifacts.

My also card also says passed on ATI overdrive at 950mhz. But for example in 3dmark 06 I see "strange things" with a memory clock like that. I'm using Atitool artifact scanner to test it.

[kiriakost]

ATI tool 0.26 does not load on my system with Catalyst 8.12 (even with CCC removal)

So i can not help you .

[JrRacinFan]

@B RoDaS
Try using Furmark for stability.

[kiriakost]

Well after some testing , i have few ideas to share .

HD3850 OC adventure .

With the system in idle , i was testing OC modes , on my VGA.
With CCC "Catalyst Control center" looked to be an easy task .

BUT !!

Unfortunately i found that the ultimate VGA clocks ,
are very Dependant on the temperature , of the VGA cooler .

The same successful high clocks , will fail the test ,
if the VGA are warm , after some time on gaming or benchmarks.

I got extremely surprised , by noticing how delicate is the balance of heat VS high clocks.

In my Sapphire card with the stock cooler,
the combination of high clocks as :
GPU 700 Memory 830 , was always a qualified combination,
no matter how hot the cooler was .

Does it worth to get better VGA cooler ?
In my case no , at list by thinking about performance gain.
I plan to replace it , but there no rush , as the stock cooler does the job and has tolerable noise level .

HD3850 OC adventure Part 2

I run the "Crysis benchmark" at 1280x1024 medium details, Physics=Low .
Even with VGA at high clocks , i did not see gain on the fps.
Some people call this effect as CPU bottleneck .
By having in mind , that the bottleneck becomes lower on lower resolution, its all about what any one has in his mind to use his system for .
Personally i do not care , about the top place in the benchmarks score board.

Conclusion no 2 : "Crysis benchmark" are unrealistic way to judge your systems performance with the game it self.
The free run of the camera , its not on the game play . ;)

30/1/2009 9:05:23 πμ - XP
Beginning Run #1 on Map-island, Demo-benchmark_gpu
DX9 1280x1024, AA=No AA, Vsync=Disabled, 32 bit test, FullScreen
Demo Loops=2, Time Of Day= 9
Global Game Quality: Custom
Custom Quality Values:
VolumetricEffects=Medium
Texture=Medium
ObjectDetail=Medium
Sound=Medium
Shadows=Medium
Water=Medium
Physics=Low
Particles=Medium
Shading=Medium
PostProcessing=Medium
GameEffects=Medium
================================================== ============
TimeDemo Play Started , (Total Frames: 2000, Recorded Time: 111.86s)
!TimeDemo Run 0 Finished.
Play Time: 66.18s, Average FPS: 30.22
Min FPS: 19.85 at frame 1933, Max FPS: 50.00 at frame 991
Average Tri/Sec: 21033696, Tri/Frame: 696009
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.32
!TimeDemo Run 1 Finished.
Play Time: 57.37s, Average FPS: 34.86
Min FPS: 19.85 at frame 1933, Max FPS: 50.00 at frame 991
Average Tri/Sec: 24530608, Tri/Frame: 703675
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.30
!TimeDemo Run 2 Finished.
Play Time: 57.15s, Average FPS: 35.00
Min FPS: 19.85 at frame 1933, Max FPS: 51.10 at frame 75
Average Tri/Sec: 24611902, Tri/Frame: 703238
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.30
TimeDemo Play Ended, (3 Runs Performed)

[kiriakost]

And now some additional technical info about ram chips , found on my card.

They are Hynix Semiconductors H5RS5223CFR sub type "N0C"

H5RS5223CFR-N0C It supports 1GHz speed .
Max voltage 2.10

Sapphire can supply max = 1.254 ( Bios info)
at the core .
Sapphire default Bios programed voltage = 1.214 at the core .

So in conclusion , Mem MHz goes as high as the voltage aloud it to go.

True memory voltage on the PCB its unknown to me , but its risky to find it out too.

http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/graphics/H5RS5223CFR(Rev1.4).pdf
Page 3

[kiriakost]

I found also the FET specs of the Sapphire ..

If some one ever needs them .

http://ic.laogu.com/datasheet/44/AOD472_AOSMD_130228.pdf

[mbvl]

Newbie here.

I found these forums and this thread while looking into getting one of the subject cards. After much reading I decided to go for it and got a Sapphire 512 AGP 3850 from NewEgg for $109 plus tax and shipping.

Now I'm at sea. It installed just fine and worked for ordinary stuff from the gitgo. But none of my benchmarks run -- 3DMark03 and 05 freeze at the splash screen, PCMark04 ran once but now freezes, and even 3DMark2001 SE crashed with a BSOD. All this straight out of the box.

I updated the drivers using Sapphire's 9-1 hotfix. I've "looked at" the card using ATITool, ATI Tray Tools, RivaTuner, CCC, and I've dumped the BIOS. There are inconsistencies amongst the tools as to what the clocks are set at, but everything looks ok.

If you look at my system specs, you will see that this is basically a four year old system. I haven't really done much tweaking since right after I built it, so I'm more than a bit rusty, but I'm embarrassed that I can't figure out what's wrong.

Is my system just not capable of handling this card? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: if I try to change the clocks using any of the usual tools, instant BSOD.

Mark

[InnocentCriminal]

Welcome to the forums Mark!

Did you remove the previous drivers first at all? I highly recommend you trying these steps....

1.) Remove all ATi related software via Add/Remove programs.

2.) Download CCleaner (http://www.ccleaner.com/download/downloading) & also get Driver Cleaner Pro. (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=745)

3.) Run CCleaner, remove all the temporary junk that you have and then run the registry cleaner...

4.) ... reboot

5.) When prompted enter into your BIOS and check that your AGP transfer rate is set to 8x, (In Catalyst Control Center this is listed as AGP speed) you can also experiment with your AGP Aperture size, I don't know the default, I presume it would be 256MB but if you still experience your BSODs and benchmarking programs not working with one value, try lowering it.

6.) Another feature to experiment with is AGP Fast Write - sometimes having this enabled can cause instability from my own experiences (I've owned two nForce 2 based motherboards).

7.) Once you're happy with your BIOS settings, boot back into Windows and run Driver Cleaner Pro. Select everything ATI even if you know you don't have it. This will do a specific registry clean for all things ATi. Once complete, reboot your machine...

8.) I'd definitely download and install the latest DX9.0c update (http://www.microsoft.com/DownLoads/details.aspx?familyid=886ACB56-C91A-4A8E-8BB8-9F20F1244A8E&displaylang=en) if you haven't already. Run that before installing the 9.2 drivers.

9.) I'd also make sure you have the latest .Net software installed and associated hotfixes/service packs. CCC uses 2.0 as a base, so it's also good to install the updates for 2 and work your way up to 3.5 SP1 which I believe is the latest version.

10.) Once you've installed all the aforementioned and rebooted the appropriate times, I'd then go ahead installing the 9.2 hotfix driver and see where that gets you.

I hope that helps!

[mbvl]

Innocent,

Thank you for your prompt reply. Here's the status of your suggestions.

I did remove the old driver using CCleaner in Safe Mode. I will try Driver Cleaner Pro -- maybe there is still some registry junk. I did check for AGP 8x in the BIOS and in CCC. The aperture size is still at the default (255) and I think I tried it at 128 also. I will try toggling AGP Fast Write. I do have DirectX 9.0c. I have .Net 3.5. Does 9.2 (from ATI) support AGP or do I have to edit the .inf? (For some reason the Sapphire driver site isn't working just now.)

Two more quick questions:

In the MB BIOS the AGP voltage can be set from 1.5 to 1.65. In the VGA BIOS it ranges from 0.974 to 1.254. What am I missing?

In ATI Tray Tool it says that the BIOS clocks are 669/829, but the current core and memory clocks are set at 13.5. Does that make any sense?

Thanks again,

Mark

[InnocentCriminal]

Innocent, Thank you for your prompt reply.

Not a problem!

Here's the status of your suggestions.

I did remove the old driver using CCleaner in Safe Mode. I will try Driver Cleaner Pro -- maybe there is still some registry junk. I did check for AGP 8x in the BIOS and in CCC. The aperture size is still at the default (255) and I think I tried it at 128 also. I will try toggling AGP Fast Write. I do have DirectX 9.0c. I have .Net 3.5. Does 9.2 (from ATI) support AGP or do I have to edit the .inf? (For some reason the Sapphire driver site isn't working just now.)

You should be able to download the actual 9.2 AGP hotfix via AMD's support site.

Two more quick questions:

In the MB BIOS the AGP voltage can be set from 1.5 to 1.65. In the VGA BIOS it ranges from 0.974 to 1.254. What am I missing?

The AGP voltage in your MB BIOS is for the AGP slot when the VGA BIOS is giving the range for the GPU itself.

In ATI Tray Tool it says that the BIOS clocks are 669/829, but the current core and memory clocks are set at 13.5. Does that make any sense?

13.5MHz? That doesn't make sense. Hmmm.... are you able to do a screenshot? I'd check Event Viewer as well to see if you're getting any errors created by CCC or anything else ATi or GFX related.

[instron]

mbvl set your aperture size as 128 meg,also try 4x agp,set your agp voltage at the highest possible setting.you may end up trying different nforce drivers for stabibility
ive seen threads before about it.I had problems with a via chipset and i fixed it by changing my agp strength in the bios.I could run in 4x agp mode but 8x crashed .try the 4x setting first if that doesnt work get a newer nforce driver maybe that will help.

[mbvl]

13.5MHz? That doesn't make sense. Hmmm.... are you able to do a screenshot? I'd check Event Viewer as well to see if you're getting any errors created by CCC or anything else ATi or GFX related.

Here's what my four tools say about my clocks:

[mbvl]

I did another clean install. I uninstalled the old driver; ran CCleaner; in BIOS checked AGP aperture size (currently 128) and disabled Fast Write; rebooted into Safe Mode; ran Driver Cleaner Pro 1.5 (new version for me); rebooted; updated my DX 9 stuff (there were some newer fixes); installed Sapphire 9.2 (the ATI version wouldn't load -- probably that 9505 vs 9515 thing); rebooted.

Not much change. Ordinary browsing works just fine. 3DM03 started but crashed at the start of test 2 with BSOD.

Mark

[revin]

Well I cant get 3DM06 to run on this Vista, but here's a Vantage run

http://img.techpowerup.org/090228/Capture004.jpg

[Drizzt5]

Should become available this month (january), Powercolor supposedly(rumored) has an agreement with Circuit City and other distributers to sell them.

:toast:
whats that?

[Yukikaze]

I just got my HD3850 AGP for my P4@4.2Ghz rig since the HD3650 on it wasn't really cutting it. I'll put some benchmarks in the coming days. The HD3650 went into my nostalgic Tualatin rig (What a waste of a GPU, talk about overkill, but it is fun !).

[Yukikaze]

All results at 1440x900, but that's all but identical in the number of pixels to 1280x1024 (98.8% of the pixel count). I just have a 19" monitor hooked up to the P4 currently. Specs in my specs tab, the HD3850 is a Sapphire w/512Mb GDDR3 and it is OC'ed to 715Mhz Core and 945Mhz Mem.

3DMark03:
http://i44.tinypic.com/zmfmkj.jpg

3DMark05:
http://i39.tinypic.com/25008y9.jpg

3DMark06:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2wly2e0.jpg

[InnocentCriminal]

Would you be able to run 3DMark06 at 1280 x 1024 at all Yukikaze, I'd be interested to see your score.

^^

[Yukikaze]

Would you be able to run 3DMark06 at 1280 x 1024 at all Yukikaze, I'd be interested to see your score.

^^

6814 in 3DMark06 at 1280x1024.

[InnocentCriminal]

Really?

That's a lot lower than I expect tbh.

[Yukikaze]

Really?

That's a lot lower than I expect tbh.

The CPU is a limiting factor here. There is only so much (so little ? hehe) that the P4 will do. Pre-GPU-OC and Post-GPU-OC results are in the same ~6.8k 3DMark06 vicinity, for example.

It does run Mass Effect at 1440x900 maxed out without a hitch. I'll benchmark games with and without AA next week.

[InnocentCriminal]

Cool!

[eidairaman1]

www.tweakguides.com

look for Driver Cleanup procedures there aswell, Make sure Direct X is up to date and also pickup the ATI Hotfix 9.2 Driver for AGP cards, you will have to go to AMD knowledgebase to pick them up but you can look under radeon 1950 for the info (AGP drivers are all the same)
Innocent,

Thank you for your prompt reply. Here's the status of your suggestions.

I did remove the old driver using CCleaner in Safe Mode. I will try Driver Cleaner Pro -- maybe there is still some registry junk. I did check for AGP 8x in the BIOS and in CCC. The aperture size is still at the default (255) and I think I tried it at 128 also. I will try toggling AGP Fast Write. I do have DirectX 9.0c. I have .Net 3.5. Does 9.2 (from ATI) support AGP or do I have to edit the .inf? (For some reason the Sapphire driver site isn't working just now.)

Two more quick questions:

In the MB BIOS the AGP voltage can be set from 1.5 to 1.65. In the VGA BIOS it ranges from 0.974 to 1.254. What am I missing?

In ATI Tray Tool it says that the BIOS clocks are 669/829, but the current core and memory clocks are set at 13.5. Does that make any sense?

Thanks again,

Mark

[instron]

has anybody else got cuda to work with there 3850 agp?Im curious to see if im the only one that has tried it yet.

[camrcr]

Hi everyone, got my HD 3850 last week and have been trying to resolve the 9505-9515 problem. I got the drivers working but I have no control over the AGP in smartgart and gpu-z has the card assigned 8x@pci. I have a gigabyte K8U-939 board and single core amd 3700and have tweaked the agp settings all kinds of ways and no luck. Bios problem on the 3850? its the sapphire model, and waiting to hear back from them

[camrcr]

nvm i finally figured it out.........works like a champ now.

[eidairaman1]

so may we have your solution so those who encounter the same problem may be able to fix theirs?

[kiriakost]

All the AMD based boards with AGP , needed the "All in One " AMD patch , to find their way about performance .

There is no other cure or magic that some one could do .

[camrcr]

ok here is what i did. for those with a ULI chipset get the driver download from TPU download section and run it youll have to re-install the driver for the video card, but before you do, edit the .inf file in the ati folder (I'm using the 9.2 hotfix ones). If your card shows up as 9505 then change the HD 3850 AGP to this "ATI Radeon HD 3850 AGP" = ati2mtag_RV630, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9505" (reads as 9515) and then change the HD 3800 line to 9515 instead of 9505. save and then uninstall old driver and sweep for old driver files in safe mode. Restart and run 9.2 catalyst and it will have full functionality and O.C. features .

[InnocentCriminal]

Page 32 (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=50040&page=32) will show you how to do this with pictures.

[Yukikaze]

has anybody else got cuda to work with there 3850 agp?Im curious to see if im the only one that has tried it yet.

CUDA with an ATI card ?

[lemonadesoda]

Page 32 (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=50040&page=32) will show you how to do this with pictures.

Please link to relevant POST NUMBER. Each user may have different posts per page set up, i.e. this post is #829 on page 28 for me! There aint no page 32 (yet)!

[lemonadesoda]

All results at 1440x900, but that's all but identical in the number of pixels to 1280x1024 (98.8% of the pixel count). I just have a 19" monitor hooked up to the P4 currently. Specs in my specs tab, the HD3850 is a Sapphire w/512Mb GDDR3 and it is OC'ed to 715Mhz Core and 945Mhz Mem.

3DMark06:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2wly2e0.jpg

Very nice OC on an old P4. Still, pales in comparison to Q6600. Do consider a cheap upgrade: Asrock Conroe865PE or 775i65 which will take your DDR RAM, your AGP, and let you stick a Core 2 in there.:pimp:

[InnocentCriminal]

Please link to relevant POST NUMBER. Each user may have different posts per page set up, i.e. this post is #829 on page 28 for me! There aint no page 32 (yet)!

It states page 32 in the actual link for that page so how would that differ? Anyroad, I know what to do in future. ;)

[Morgoth]

CCC 9.3 works with agp hd3850?

[InnocentCriminal]

As far as I'm awake it does yes. You having issues?

[Morgoth]

yea it says doest support my gpu :/
downloading the drivers now from sapphire

[intel igent]

this thread still alive! holy shizzle! thnx guy's :respect:

[intel igent]

i just picked up farcry2 yesterday and wondering if anyone is playing it on their 3850agp and what setting's are you using for optimal graphic's? when i crank everything on high i get a VPU recovery :laugh:

my FPS is fine just would like a lil' more quality if possible?

<< sys spec to the left and still using original driver's that came with the card :nutkick:

cheer's!

:toast:

[lemonadesoda]

I found that upgrading from a 3.0 Northwood to a 3.2EE Gallatin made a big improvement in games due to more of the game code staying in the bigger cache.

The Gallatins are quite cheap on ebay these days... might help a bit.

Alternatively, an Asrock 775i65G can be had for $20, and a Core 2 Anything can be had for $50 and it will BLOW your 3.6 Northwood or a Gallatin out of the water.

I very much recommend that $70 upgrade. No need to reinstall anything because its the same chipset, just s775.

[intel igent]

you got something for sale?

also can i do HDTV through this card using a DVI > HDMI adapter or a DVI > HDMI cable? i'll prolly need a new soundcard to?

:toast:

[lemonadesoda]

Nope. My 775i65G is running a Q6600 and is in full time use :D

Gallatin was sold already.

[intel igent]

any info for my second Q by chance?

:toast:

[lemonadesoda]

This is the 3850 AGP I have: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a302818.html

Besonderheiten: integrierter HD Audiocontroller, HDMI mittels Adapter,

Notable extras: integrated HD audio controller, HDMI over DVI adapter.

[intel igent]

i don't understand german lol but i'm assuming it is possible using a converter or DVI > HDMI cable?

what i would like to do is to be able to game/watch movies from my PC on my Hi-Def LCD and sound on my home theatre?

i got no money for PC stuff i spent it all on RC's :nutkick:

i have some budget if necessary but i would like to get it done with what i have if possible?

Gellatin was not much more different than presscot IIRC :confused:

:toast:

[karatekatadvd]

Hi, i`m using a DVI > HDMI (Philips) Cable between my Sapphire HD 3850 AGP an my HP 2448hc. Works fine.

cu

[intel igent]

cool! what res are you displaying? i'd like to be able to maintain 1080p or whatever it is lol HDTV :roll:

[InnocentCriminal]

It depends on your HDTV - what does your TV support?

[intel igent]

it's full HD 1080p with 3 HDMI input's and of course component and Svideo and that jazz lol

innocent long time no talk! lol what are the newest/best driver's out there that you knw about? i been slacking on the PC since i picked up a few RC's :roll:

:toast:

[karatekatadvd]

cool! what res are you displaying? i'd like to be able to maintain 1080p or whatever it is lol HDTV :roll:

1920x1200 in 2D, but it`s pretty hard for my rig, at the moment i own a P4 3,06GHz HT and 2 Gig RAM. System is to slow for gaming in high-res, hmmm maybe HL2 works with high-res.
But the next rig is already beeing planed.

cu

[intel igent]

i have the presscot so it has like 512kb extra cache :laugh: not much of a difference but every lil' bit help's with these older rig's! i been looking for extreme edition CPU's on Ebay but nothing yet :cry: i found a few 3.4 presscott's but i'm there already with mine, maybe i have to bite the bullet and do as lemonadesoda suggested and get myself an Asrock board and newer style 775 CPU :confused:

[lemonadesoda]

http://shop.ebay.ca/775i65g?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=775i65g&_naf=1

Make sure you get one that is CONROE compatible, Revision 2.0. The earlier boards didnt do conroe, the later one did. Look it up b4 u buy.

Just to repeat: I am running Q6600 @ 2.66 (limit due to 300FSB max)... with my old DDR1, and my AGP3850. You DONT need a quad to get the max out of games, a cheap Core 2 Duo would still give you lots of whallop compared to silly Northwood/Prescotts

[intel igent]

i was checking those board's out already since i couldn't find a EE skt478 CPU on the bay, what is the easy way to distinguish the revised board's with the older board's?

:toast:

[lemonadesoda]

http://img.techpowerup.org/090525/Capture041.jpg
http://img.techpowerup.org/090525/Capture040.jpg

Play Revision 2.0 spot-the-difference-bingo!

1./ 4 toroid coils by voltage regulators
2./ Says FSB 1066 on the mainboard
3./ Says Conroe on the mainboard
4./ Says R2.0 on the box

[lemonadesoda]

i was checking those board's out already since i couldn't find a EE skt478 CPU on the bay, what is the easy way to distinguish the revised board's with the older board's?

:toast:

I would advise against a s478EE edition. They will improve games a little, but in nearly every other application it will make no noticeable difference in performance. You would need to inspect benchmarks to spot the 5-10% gains.

Whereas the Conroe will give you 2-3x speedup across the board.

[intel igent]

what driver's are you guy's using? i've been trying to find the 9.2? but all i seem to get is 9.5 and it say's it is incompatible? :banghead:

[karatekatadvd]

At the moment the 9.3 Hotfix from Sapphire, i installed the driver only (without CCC) and use the ATT additionally.

cu

[intel igent]

thank's! i totally forgot to check sapphire's site! :banghead: :laugh:

see what happen's when you fall out of the loop! :shadedshu

[pvhk]

Hi all!
here 's my matx rig with my sapphire hd3850 agp:
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4420/10909.th.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10909.jpg)

[lemonadesoda]

^^ w00t. Wow X6800 Quad unlockable multiplier. Amazing. AGP on 3.3Ghz Core 2 Quad. Best AGP machine I have seen. WELCOME.

However, your 3Dmark06 score sucks. Check out this thread: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=57401

I was able to pull over 11000 using clocks of 750/1000 on a Q6600 at 2.66GHz. So something isnt quite right... you can get more out of your system

[pvhk]

thxs!
no ratio unlocked upward unfortunately on the 775i65g!
3d06 is highly dependant on cpu, and a quad core gives a higher global score...

[InnocentCriminal]

9.5 hotfix - fixed! (http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CatalystAGPHotfix.aspx)

[karatekatadvd]

9.6 AGP Hotfix (http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CatalystAGPHotfix.aspx)

cu

[intel igent]

updated first post to include the link to the newest driver's, thnx for postin' :toast:

[mdm-adph]

updated first post to include the link to the newest driver's, thnx for postin' :toast:

You should put the date in big letters at the top of that first post so people will know that you've been updating it, too. :D

Real close to buying one of these cards for fun.

[karatekatadvd]

Ok Guys, installed the 9.6 hotfix yesterday (this time full install including CCC and without ATT) and played Left 4 Dead. What should i say? Works fine for me.

cu

[T3kl0rd]

I flashed the BIOS of my Sapphire HD 3850 AGP to be at 3D voltages and clock speeds in all modes. Hope it doesn't cause a problem because I hated being stuck with the slower 2D clock speed. :D

[eidairaman1]

Drivers

The drivers at this link

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Legacy/Pages/radeonaiw_xp.aspx?type=2.4.1&product=2.4.1.3.23〈=English&rev=9.8&ostype=Windows%20XP%20-%20Professional/Home

do they Work with the Radeon 1950 Pro AGP 512 (Sapphire)??? I don't see the 1950 Series Listed. Im getting ready to drop Windows 7 RC for XP again.

[db_81]

I was just looking around for the fastest AGP systems. I can't overclock my Q6600 at all on this board. In my main board it'll hit 3Ghz easy, but I can only get a 50mhz OC on this one. Any way here's my score.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/dbsnooper/q6600oc3850.jpg

This was the best I could get with my E6600, although I can't remember what I set the 3850 at.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/dbsnooper/3d3050.jpg

I think AGP died WAY too early, although I'd never buy one now. I've had this board since '06.

I was using DDR 400 for this run, tomorrow I'll pop some DDR2 in it and see if that helps. I'll post the results.

[InnocentCriminal]

Welcome db_81!

Some really nice scores for what is a great card!

[kyle2020]

db, at that frequency you should be able to run that Q6600 on as little as 1V.

[db_81]

db, at that frequency you should be able to run that Q6600 on as little as 1V.

I know, it's crazy. Like I said, on my other board I can hit 3GHz with less voltage easy. I can get this board to boot up at 2.73Ghz with it but it won't load Windows above 2,459MHz.

Any way I tried DDR2 today and overclocked the card as high as I'm willing, (I'm not taking it past the Rivatuner redline, even if there are no artifacts) and here is the result.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/dbsnooper/q66003850fo.jpg

If I could get it to boot at even 2.6Ghz I'm sure I could pass 12K, but it's not happening.:shadedshu

[Morgoth]

ok since topic starter is banned, it would be nice if some one can edit the first page ?

[eidairaman1]

ur telling me that u came on here just to say that??? Dude the topic is old, if ur subscribed to it fine, but not let it die.

[InnocentCriminal]

I think Morgoth wants the first post updated with the information that has accumulated within the pages so that people still with AGP cards (myself included) don't need to thrall through 30 odd pages to find the answer they're looking for.

I liked intel_igent, shame it was banned. Must not have behaved himself.

[ShaolinMilk]

Bumping an old thread!

Anyways, I bought the Sapphire 3850 AGP card not too long ago for my old pentium 4 3.0ghz 478 socket. I noticed that the default core clock is set at 300mhz and not 669mhz like the powercolor model of it. Is this how it's suppose to be?

I decided to download rivatuner to overclock my core clock to 669mhz and to set my fan at a constant 70%. My temperature in the beginning idled around the high 70's and at times, it would spike all the way up to 93C under load. So I read up a bit on it and found out I might have to disable low-level fan control and re-enable it in order for the fans to spin at the speed I want it to. After A LOT of trial and error, I managed to get the temperature down to around 69-70C on idle. This is still high considering it's on idle and the idle temperature at a core clock of 300mhz was around 59C or so. This is about a 10C difference and I'm wondering if this is normal? When I play games, it would go up to 80-82C and not 93C like when I originally tried it. Should I set it back to it's default settings or should I keep it at this setting? I heard that this video card can go up to 85C without any complications at all. Running at around 70C on idle, is this safe at all? It doesn't seem safe to me, but I noticed a pretty big difference in my gaming compared to when it was not overclocked at all.

[lemonadesoda]

70C on idle seems very very hot. Can't be right. ALSO, remember that there are 2D clocks and 3D clocks. You can be quite happy with 300mHz with the 2D desktop clocks, it is more than enough! Look carefully at the threads, and look at the BIOS editors to get a better understanding of how this card works... and good luck and enjoy the card. The P4 you have will NOT work the 3850very hard. You need a Core Quad to get the most out of it. See my benchmark thread for stats.

[ShaolinMilk]

70C on idle seems very very hot. Can't be right. ALSO, remember that there are 2D clocks and 3D clocks. You can be quite happy with 300mHz with the 2D desktop clocks, it is more than enough! Look carefully at the threads, and look at the BIOS editors to get a better understanding of how this card works... and good luck and enjoy the card. The P4 you have will NOT work the 3850very hard. You need a Core Quad to get the most out of it. See my benchmark thread for stats.
Yes I know! That's what I was thinking. Something doesn't seem right to me here. What do you mean 300mHz with 2D desktop clocks? Where do I find the "BIOS editors"? What mobo and cpu do recommend I get that can use this card to its full potential?

EDIT: So I just set it back to its stock settings and the temperature dropped by about 10C. It is at 62C right now and I'm not doing anything at all. Also, my cpu is at 38C right now and my CPU is known for heating up.

[InnocentCriminal]

Welcome Shaolin,

I suggest you fill in your System Specification (http://forums.techpowerup.com/profile.php?do=specs) so we can get a clear understanding of what path is appropriate after amending these heating issues.

[ShaolinMilk]

Hi InnocentCriminal,

I just filled in my System Specs and thank you for the warm welcome.

[_JP_]

Hi all!

I need some advice. I'm thinking of buying a HD 3850 AGP for my rig, but I'm unsure which maker I should go for.:confused:
I've been reading this thread and seems the Sapphire models can be pencil modded.
So I ask: Considering overclocking, at this moment which is the best maker to buy from? Powercolor, HIS (non-IceQ 3) or Sapphire?

Since I want to overclock, I'm thinking of using a Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo (Core) + Enzotech BMR-C1 (Mem).

[_JP_]

Bumping for greater Justice!
Or 'till someone helps me... :(

[OneMoar]

ewwww agp

[InnocentCriminal]

ewwww agp

Not exactly a constructive post dude.

:shadedshu

I need some advice. I'm thinking of buying a HD 3850 AGP for my rig, but I'm unsure which maker I should go for.

My gaming name is JackPepsi which I abbreviate to JP nuts! From my own personal experience (as you can see from this thread) I had a Sapphire 3850, it was absolutely amazing, I did replace the stock cooler to a Zalman VF1000 though which increase it's OC'ing capabilities as well as reducing the noise.

I don't think it entirely matters which brand you go for, I recommend getting the cheapest you can and then spending some extra money on an awesome cooler for it. Unless you can get a decent price on a HIS model, their IceQ coolers are great!

[OneMoar]

just don't get a single slot heat-pipe cooler from sapphire
unless u wanna boil water on your gpu

[Yukikaze]

just don't get a single slot heat-pipe cooler from sapphire
unless u wanna boil water on your gpu

I had the single-slot Sapphire HD3850. It never had any issues with temperatures with it. It was a bit noisy, but that's about it.

There's a good Club3D version with a zalman-like cooler on it, which also has the benefit of looking pretty nice in the case, as well.

[_JP_]

Thank you all so very much for your replies. :respect: :toast:

I've been doing math to figure out what would be the best purchase. Importing from Amazon is out of the question, since most of them arrive here costing 110€ and for less I can get them here. The "problem" is that here, I can only get a Powercolor (non-Zerotherm) or a Sapphire. :ohwell:
I also know of the Club3D but haven't found any, so I've crossed that one.
Amazon sells a HIS version, but the non IceQ 3 Turbo (can't seem to find one of those either), the rest are all Sapphires.
So I'm going patriotic...:laugh:

I'll probably go for the Sapphire, if they're available (stupid site doesn't display the availability :shadedshu). If not, Powercolor it is.

InnocentCriminal, can you tell me if the Zalman VF1000 leaves any space/head-room for the RAM-sinks I mentioned? They're 14x14x14cm. Most coolers don't leave space for such big heatsinks, but for a decent overclock I saw these as necessary. The hard part is looking of a compatible Core cooler.
The AC's accelero S1 & twin turbo (non-Pro) are compatible, but I don't know if they're more efficient than a Zalman cooler.

[InnocentCriminal]

The VF1000 even comes with VRM cooling so you'll be just fine. I love my 3850 and still use it.

[_JP_]

Ok, I'll go for the VF1000. Thanks!

(they're kinda expensive though...)

[OneMoar]

I had the single-slot Sapphire HD3850. It never had any issues with temperatures with it. It was a bit noisy, but that's about it.

There's a good Club3D version with a zalman-like cooler on it, which also has the benefit of looking pretty nice in the case, as well.

I had 2 of them
bot ran 114c @ full load and 98c playing GRID /w fan @ 100% defective coolers

[_JP_]

Alas...(poor Yorick!) The Sapphire was taken off the site the precise day I was going to buy it. :(

I was just on my way to make the reservation and then run to get it with the cash in my hands, when, after 10 terrifying minutes of search, the site proved me the card was no longer available... :cry:

:ohwell:

Guess I'll have to go for a PowerColor. It's going to be cheaper, about 10€, but I don't know what to expect from this one. Still planning on OC, but it's going to be the 3rd PowerColor I buy, in a row, and the last two haven't proved trusty overclockers. But strangely had very good performance on stock (I wonder if that's on purpose?). :confused:

Has anyone got any experience with this specific card? (BTW, it's the Non-Zerotherm cooled one)


[P.S.:]
I've been reading some posts about users that congratulate W1zzard and the whole TPU cast on the spectacular Forum & Site it is. I've got to add my Thanks to the list too, this is the FIRST forum where I'm actively posting about AGP cards and no one has replied:

"EEW!!!1!!!one AGP!!!!1!!" (except for that one of rjc862003)(again, not very constructive!)

or

AGP IZ DEAD!!

or even

Please, let AGP die...

Finally one can talk about aging technology without childish comments or immediately comparing how a PCI-e e-peen rig is so much better about a AGP rig.
Thank you so very much! All of you! :toast: :respect: :rockout:

[/P.S.:]

A very special thank you to InnocentCriminal, rjc862003, Yukikaze & lemonsoda who keep this particular thread alive and breading!! And to intel_igent for creating it. :toast:

[OneMoar]

Alas...(poor Yorick!) The Sapphire was taken off the site the precise day I was going to buy it. :(

I was just on my way to make the reservation and then run to get it with the cash in my hands, when, after 10 terrifying minutes of search, the site proved me the card was no longer available... :cry:

:ohwell:

Guess I'll have to go for a PowerColor. It's going to be cheaper, about 10€, but I don't know what to expect from this one. Still planning on OC, but it's going to be the 3rd PowerColor I buy, in a row, and the last two haven't proved trusty overclockers. But strangely had very good performance on stock (I wonder if that's on purpose?). :confused:

Has anyone got any experience with this specific card? (BTW, it's the Non-Zerotherm cooled one)


[P.S.:]
I've been reading some posts about users that congratulate W1zzard and the whole TPU cast on the spectacular Forum & Site it is. I've got to add my Thanks to the list too, this is the FIRST forum where I'm actively posting about AGP cards and no one has replied:

"EEW!!!1!!!one AGP!!!!1!!" (except for that one of rjc862003)(again, not very constructive!)

or

AGP IZ DEAD!!

or even

Please, let AGP die...

Finally one can talk about aging technology without childish comments or immediately comparing how a PCI-e e-peen rig is so much better about a AGP rig.
Thank you so very much! All of you! :toast: :respect: :rockout:

[/P.S.:]

A very special thank you to InnocentCriminal, rjc862003, Yukikaze & lemonsoda who keep this particular thread alive and breading!! And to intel_igent for creating it. :toast:
first of all I guss E-sarcasm escapes you
secondly I am sorry if I offended you :respect:
lastly AGP is OLD and buying a 100+ dollor card for a agp setup makes no sense to me
if you where to say buy a new motherboard with a a pcie slot and a say something like a 4770 or even a 4850/5750 you would gain quiet a bit of performance over a AGP card
a 3850 is going to have trouble playing ANYTHING newer then say ... GRID ( iirc GRID used to push my pci-e 3850 to 100% load @ 1280x720 x2aa Med settings ) [keep in mind I had my 3850 wound out to 820Mhz/1800
in short it would be a waste of what I assume for you is hard to come buy spending $
I really recommend rethinking and saving up abit more and do a Proper Upgrade
something like this would out pace your agp 3850 by a good bit
Foxconn M61PMP-K AM3 NVIDIA MCP61P Micro ATX AMD M... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186189)
XFX HD-567X-YNFC Radeon HD 5670 (Redwood) 512MB 12... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150466)

[Marcos669]

first of all I guss E-sarcasm escapes you
secondly I am sorry if I offended you :respect:
lastly AGP is OLD and buying a 100+ dollor card for a agp setup makes no sense to me
if you where to say buy a new motherboard with a a pcie slot and a say something like a 4770 or even a 4850/5750 you would gain quiet a bit of performance over a AGP card
a 3850 is going to have trouble playing ANYTHING newer then say ... GRID ( iirc GRID used to push my pci-e 3850 to 100% load @ 1280x720 x2aa Med settings ) [keep in mind I had my 3850 wound out to 820Mhz/1800
in short it would be a waste of what I assume for you is hard to come buy spending $
I really recommend rethinking and saving up abit more and do a Proper Upgrade
something like this would out pace your agp 3850 by a good bit
Foxconn M61PMP-K AM3 NVIDIA MCP61P Micro ATX AMD M... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186189)
XFX HD-567X-YNFC Radeon HD 5670 (Redwood) 512MB 12... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150466)

I think you don´t know what you are saying, a 3850 AGP hands all modern games withouth any problem with the right procesor like the one our friend has.

The only games this card can´t run at maximum are GTA IV(medium-high), Crysis(medium with AA or high without AA), Far Cry 2(Very High without AA), and Arma II(Medium without AA), the rest of modern games are fully playable at full graphics.

And sorry for my bad english, i´m Spanish

[bebbee]

i think 3850 is still a very fast card.

[Morgoth]

marcoss
i runed crysis on highest settings no aa and it runned
with the agp card and P4 at 3,60ghz

[OneMoar]

crysis is old
AGP is dead and this thread should be locked

[_JP_]

Sort of agree...
This is still useful for those who own one (HD 3850), but there seems to be almost no activity.

Not that I've given up on getting a HD 3850, but my will is drifting towards the HD 4670.
It's as good as the HD 3850, with support for new tech and less power consumption.

[InnocentCriminal]

Lemonadesoda made a thread (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=96305) that might help you in your decision JP.

[Jackdrits]

Hi there everyone.. i'm from Brazil and i'm new here.

I recently bought a Sapphire HD3850 AGP and i'm really enjoying it.. it's a really good card!

But i would like to ask you guys about a little problem i'm having here:
Its OEM cooler is too noisy!

Doing some research i found out that i could use ATI Tools or RivaTuner to controle the fan speed and make it a bit silent, but i didn't find which is a good version to use..
All i saw was people saying that things weren't working..

I'm also looking for a new cooler for it..
Is a Zalman vf900-cu a good option?
I can find it very cheap here in my country, but i'm not sure if its compatible with the card..

Thank you guys in advance for your help and attention!

[_JP_]

First of all, Welcome to TPU!

Doing some research i found out that i could use ATI Tools or RivaTuner to controle the fan speed and make it a bit silent, but i didn't find which is a good version to use..
All i saw was people saying that things weren't working..
Try the MSI Afterburner (http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/).


I'm also looking for a new cooler for it..
Is a Zalman vf900-cu a good option?
I can find it very cheap here in my country, but i'm not sure if its compatible with the card..

You can find at their site a table with the compatible chips for that cooler. From what I can see the HD 3850 is listed there, so either AGP or PCI-e versions are compatible. Feel free to use that one. Also, if you do purchase that cooler, it comes with a very handy fan controller (FAN MATE 2), so that you don't have to use software to control the fan speed. Considering that the VF900 is a very quiet cooler, even at max speed, I doubt you'll have noise issues.

Have fun with that card!

[Jackdrits]

I see!

I've just purchased the vf900..
Now, lets wait for it to get here and see how things will work hehehehe

Thank you so much for your help JP!

Cheers.

[nollo]

Hello Everyone I have been struggling with my AGP8x 3850 as of lately and too me it seems like a overheating issue but perhaps the more knowledgeable can help me out.

So a few months ago my main hard drive failed, the one I had in place when i Built the machine. but having 2 other hard drives in the machine I had a backup of the boot registry and I just have been booting from my faster sata drive.... Anyway.

Recently playing games like Everquest, and dynasty warriors online, have been outright crashing my computer, blinking red lines, blue lines, boom. Plenty of VPU recovers, and my 3850 is running idle at 55, then within 30 seconds of any 3D application the GPU jumps too 100% Usage and the temp sharply increases to temps of 105-110 C, so my card can boil water. I live in a cold climate and have gone as far as nearly putting the PC out the window with fans and sub 30F degree winds blowing into the machine, and I still get the problems.

My original guess was that I lost some drivers in the failing of my original hard drive, so I re-installed the latest 10.12 catalyst and the hotfix for it from Sapphire. These drivers have not fixed anything =(

I dont know if I forgot to reinstall chipset drivers and if that can make a difference? or do my current drivers suck? I am not sure what to do, i want to get my 3850 back to working shape where I was handling almost anything with complete ease, now I crash within 15min of any 3d app =( The temps when running 3d apps are just way to high, Using MSI afterburner with 90% fan speed and nothing =(

Any Ideas?
Oh and I would be happy to provide any system specs I think there is a easy way to do that right?

[OneMoar]

I had a Sapphire 3850 Single Slot that ran upwards of 115c (Defective Heat Pipe in the cooler ) Burned up after roughly 4 months


replace the cooler with a after market one or use it until it dies
also LOLAGP
time to upgrade bud
AGP IS DEAD

[sliderider]

At this point I have to agree that it's time to buy a new motherboard with a PCIe x16 slot. The best card you can get now to replace your video card when it finally does go is a HIS HD4670 IceQ and that's around $125. For $125 you can get a 5770 in PCIe (and I recently saw a used 5830 on ebay for that price) and be able to use DX11 which you can't with a 3850/4670. Going forward your system is going to become more and more bottlenecked by that AGP slot because games are going to continue to advance at a faster pace and there will likely be little or no further support for AGP in the future.

[wahdangun]

The VF1000 even comes with VRM cooling so you'll be just fine. I love my 3850 and still use it.

why don't you buy HD 4670 AGP ??? its cooler and perform better :confused:

[_JP_]

Any Ideas?
Well, to be honest, besides what you have done, the only other thing I could recommend is a full re-install of the OS with all the drivers properly installed, 1st chipset, 2nd on-board stuff, 3rd Graphics card...
replace the cooler with a after market one or use it until it dies

You can also do this. Use any of the coolers mentioned here that have been said to work. I recommend Zalman's solutions or, if you're short on cash, Arctic Cooling. Also, consider getting a heatsink for the RiAlto chip on the backside of the card (the one that has a pink-ish pad on it, near the AGP connector). That chip gets very hot while gaming and cooling it properly will give your card a longer life-span and will show better results.
Before all that you could just replace the thermal paste on the card's cooler and see if it improves anything. If you don't know how to do it there are several guides in the web, that are very good. Heres one. (http://www.techpowerup.com/printarticle.php?id=134) It applies to CPUs, but is pretty much the same with GPUs.
*snip*
Consider that nollo might not the funds to upgrade to a whole new system, something that you sure are proposing. Considering nollo is still using an AGP board it's also safe to assume that he's also still using DDR RAM and a Pentium4/D or an Athlon 64. So after all this he would need to upgrade motherboard, CPU and RAM. Also, to take full advantage of today's technology, most good boards come with a EPS12v connector (i.e. 8-pin +12v board connector), something that his PSU might not have, since old boards only used 4-pin. But get this, there aren't that many games that make use of DX11, yet, and AGP is supported by all current games. So while you are right about the performance increase between PCI-e 2.0 and AGP 8x, if the user only wants a solution to his current issue (properly cooling the card), let's just provide that, shall we?
why don't you buy HD 4670 AGP ??? its cooler and perform better :confused:
Not only is it cooler, it also consumes less. As for performance, it's about the same as the HD 3850 AGP up to 1440x900, after that the HD 3850 is better, because of the 256-bit RAM bus length. The HD 4670 also has better support and less performance impact on AAs and AFs up to the mentioned resolution.
Oh and I would be happy to provide any system specs I think there is a easy way to do that right?
Yes, there is. ;) To fill in your System specs, please, click here (http://forums.techpowerup.com/profile.php?do=specs). Don't forget to select "Yes" on the drop-down selection box right in the beginning of the page.

[sliderider]

Well, to be honest, besides what you have done, the only other thing I could recommend is a full re-install of the OS with all the drivers properly installed, 1st chipset, 2nd on-board stuff, 3rd Graphics card...

You can also do this. Use any of the coolers mentioned here that have been said to work. I recommend Zalman's solutions or, if you're short on cash, Arctic Cooling. Also, consider getting a heatsink for the RiAlto chip on the backside of the card (the one that has a pink-ish pad on it, near the AGP connector). That chip gets very hot while gaming and cooling it properly will give your card a longer life-span and will show better results.
Before all that you could just replace the thermal paste on the card's cooler and see if it improves anything. If you don't know how to do it there are several guides in the web, that are very good. Heres one. (http://www.techpowerup.com/printarticle.php?id=134) It applies to CPUs, but is pretty much the same with GPUs.

Consider that nollo might not the funds to upgrade to a whole new system, something that you sure are proposing. Considering nollo is still using an AGP board it's also safe to assume that he's also still using DDR RAM and a Pentium4/D or an Athlon 64. So after all this he would need to upgrade motherboard, CPU and RAM. Also, to take full advantage of today's technology, most good boards come with a EPS12v connector (i.e. 8-pin +12v board connector), something that his PSU might not have, since old boards only used 4-pin. But get this, there aren't that many games that make use of DX11, yet, and AGP is supported by all current games. So while you are right about the performance increase between PCI-e 2.0 and AGP 8x, if the user only wants a solution to his current issue (properly cooling the card), let's just provide that, shall we?

Not only is it cooler, it also consumes less. As for performance, it's about the same as the HD 3850 AGP up to 1440x900, after that the HD 3850 is better, because of the 256-bit RAM bus length. The HD 4670 also has better support and less performance impact on AAs and AFs up to the mentioned resolution.

Yes, there is. ;) To fill in your System specs, please, click here (http://forums.techpowerup.com/profile.php?do=specs). Don't forget to select "Yes" on the drop-down selection box right in the beginning of the page.

You can get an 880G motherboard for $60 and 3GB of DDR3 1066 for $35, that's less than the cost of replacing the AGP video card and even the onboard video that comes with 880G won't be that bad in comparison to a 3850 until a cheap PCIe card can be obtained. After my HD4850 died I was using the onboard HD4250 for about 4 months until the HD6870 came out and with all the eye candy turned off, most of my games were still playable though I had to drop down to DX9 mode for those games that had one. It shouldn't take anything more powerful than a 5670 to equal or exceed the performance of an AGP 3850, so the upgrade will easy enough to save up for. Any power connectors needed can be adapted from molex connectors for a few bucks each. The only way a new PSU will be needed is if he's still using something in the 300W range or plans to buy a high end video card, which you make it sound like he can't afford anyway.

Edit: According to AMD, the HD3850 requires a 450W PSU with one additional power connector for the card. A 5670 requires only a 400W PSU and no additional power connector so if he's running a 3850 now, he has a PSU capable of powering a 5670 and possibly even a 5770.

[trt740]

HIS IceQ H467QS1GHA Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161337) or try this

[sliderider]

HIS IceQ H467QS1GHA Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161337) or try this

Other than power usage, the 4670 is a sidegrade from a 3850. If you're going to spend the money, it's better to future proof yourself a little. Even if he has to buy a new CPU for the motherboard I suggested, an Athlon II X2 is still cheap and the system will be less CPU bound in games than whatever single core he may be using now further justifying the expense of the upgrade and the CPU, video card, and RAM can be upgraded more in the future as money allows. A lot of people have even had success at unlocking the single core Sempron to dual core, so that may also be an even cheaper possibility. It is highly unlikely that there will ever be a DX 11 card released for AGP that delivers anything close to acceptable performance as a gaming card. There is an HD5450 for PCI, but it's still slower and has less texture memory than the Sparkle 9500GT 1gb card so the DX11 compatibility is basically useless. Both of those cards would be downgrades from a 3850/4670 and cost almost as much. Pouring additional money into a dead end architecture with no increase in performance to justify the money spent makes no sense at this point.

And seriously

http://3btech.net/3btecocospam8.html

$269 for an Athlon II X2 with 2gb DDR3 1066 RAM, 500gb SATA hard drive, and a 550W PSU.

[nollo]

Wow the suggestions are fantastic! Too be honest this is the first board i join with such fast and knowledgeable responses, I really appreciate this, I was lost and now i feel well equipped with multiple alternatives.

JP is right though I am currently the most strapped for cash as I have ever been in my life haha, working on that of course ~ I do run a 1440 X 900 resolution, and the games I play are hardly new~ just so you all know where im coming from.

It is my plan in the future to work on a entirely new system, I just wanted to get more life out of my current as I just have too many issues to be spending on a new machine ( which in reality would just further my gaming addiction and prevent me pursuing new clients haha!)

I tried a OS reinstall and refreshed all my drivers, felt that overall the machine was running better but the video card problems remained, hence It is the card itself and not driver issue. So with that I am going to approach this by first searching for some cooling options that will work and maybe extend the playing life of the card, and so i can even play games!

This is my Mobo http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=4COREDUAL-SATA2

I got it thinking one day down the line I would want a PCI-E card, So I am guessing with this Mobo perhaps it broadens my options for perhaps replacing the 3850? ... scratch that I just realized its only a x4 slot, I need x16 correct~ Doh!

If I cant find cheap and effective means to let the 3850 run my current games till it dies, then I will have to go with a replacement card that fits my current system. While the idea to get a cheap new system is a good one, I want to ride this one till I save money to buid a strong system that will last me in the future ( one i will no doubt be utilizing this forum to help put together!)

I posted my system specs up so now you can see what im working with, and my situation. Ill let you all know how it pans out~

[InnocentCriminal]

why don't you buy HD 4670 AGP ??? its cooler and perform better :confused:

Why would I buy a 4670 when I already have a 3850? I don't understand.

[_JP_]

I got it thinking one day down the line I would want a PCI-E card, So I am guessing with this Mobo perhaps it broadens my options for perhaps replacing the 3850? ... scratch that I just realized its only a x4 slot, I need x16 correct~ Doh!
Take a look at my system specs, for some ideas. ;)
You don't really need a x16, x4 works fine.

[sliderider]

Why woiuld a buy a 4670 when I already have a 3850? I don't understand.

The point he's trying to make is if the 3850 dies, the 4670 is available as a comparable replacement, but at this point your system is maxed out and you're probably looking for something better than just a straight up replacement. AGP performance is not likely to get any better in the future than what you already have so the only way to upgrade is to a new system and like the one I linked to. Entry level systems that can be upgraded later on are cheap enough. Even if you were to buy a HD5670 and install it in the one I linked, the total cost would still be under $350. You can even find Intel i3 systems in that price range, though the cheapest one I found came with only 1gb RAM which would suck for games.

[sliderider]

Take a look at my system specs, for some ideas. ;)
You don't really need a x16, x4 works fine.

He can buy a much better motherboard that supports newer processors for less than you can find that one for. I was considering recommending either that one or the one that supports socket 939 because he can carry over some of his legacy hardware, but socket 775 and 939 are as dead as the what he is upgrading from. Better to go with an AM3, or LGA 1156 motherboard and if I was starting fresh knowing what I know now, I'd go for an LGA 1156 and G6950 or Core i3 with the object of eventually upgrading it to an 800 series i7 since they are less CPU bound in games than Phenoms. LGA1366 motherboards and i7's are just too expensive. I would have paid more for a motherboard and CPU than I paid for my whole system if I had gone that route.

[InnocentCriminal]

The point he's trying to make is if the 3850 dies, the 4670 is available as a comparable replacement, but at this point your system is maxed out and you're probably looking for something better than just a straight up replacement. AGP performance is not likely to get any better in the future than what you already have so the only way to upgrade is to a new system and like the one I linked to. Entry level systems that can be upgraded later on are cheap enough. Even if you were to buy a HD5670 and install it in the one I linked, the total cost would still be under $350. You can even find Intel i3 systems in that price range, though the cheapest one I found came with only 1gb RAM which would suck for games.

I have a completely different rig now. The 3850 is in a back up rig.

[nollo]

JP you suggest that the Radeon HD5770 works on this motherboard? I looked at your specs and we have the same motherboard,audio, i used to have a 80gb also haha but just 2 500 now. Hmm im wondering then if i can upgrade my ram and card similar to your set up without any hitches?

[sliderider]

Wow the suggestions are fantastic! Too be honest this is the first board i join with such fast and knowledgeable responses, I really appreciate this, I was lost and now i feel well equipped with multiple alternatives.

JP is right though I am currently the most strapped for cash as I have ever been in my life haha, working on that of course ~ I do run a 1440 X 900 resolution, and the games I play are hardly new~ just so you all know where im coming from.

It is my plan in the future to work on a entirely new system, I just wanted to get more life out of my current as I just have too many issues to be spending on a new machine ( which in reality would just further my gaming addiction and prevent me pursuing new clients haha!)

I tried a OS reinstall and refreshed all my drivers, felt that overall the machine was running better but the video card problems remained, hence It is the card itself and not driver issue. So with that I am going to approach this by first searching for some cooling options that will work and maybe extend the playing life of the card, and so i can even play games!

This is my Mobo http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=4COREDUAL-SATA2

I got it thinking one day down the line I would want a PCI-E card, So I am guessing with this Mobo perhaps it broadens my options for perhaps replacing the 3850? ... scratch that I just realized its only a x4 slot, I need x16 correct~ Doh!

If I cant find cheap and effective means to let the 3850 run my current games till it dies, then I will have to go with a replacement card that fits my current system. While the idea to get a cheap new system is a good one, I want to ride this one till I save money to buid a strong system that will last me in the future ( one i will no doubt be utilizing this forum to help put together!)

I posted my system specs up so now you can see what im working with, and my situation. Ill let you all know how it pans out~

Actually, this motherboard was created as a stop gap measure between the AGP and PCIe eras so that users of older systems could carry over some of the parts to their new one. At this point you're better off buying a motherboard that supports newer processors and faster memory than trying to salvage old parts that are going to hold your system back. For a slower video card the difference between x4 and x16 won't seem like much but when you start looking for more power from a higher end card, that x4 is going to be a bottleneck because it only has a fourth the bandwith of a full x16 slot.

[T3kl0rd]

Not any need to upgrade past HD 3850 for AGP, if you are still using AGP. I still have my HD 3850 AGP, although I didn't need it because of the CPU bottleneck. Would have had same FPS with HD 3650. Went 3850 because I didn't know what the bottleneck would be exactly. My current rig pwns and can play anything, so glad to have it. Now I can't wait to embrace PCI-e 3.0 and another dual GPU setup in a few years. ^^

[OneMoar]

Not any need to upgrade past HD 3850 for AGP, if you are still using AGP. I still have my HD 3850 AGP, although I didn't need it because of the CPU bottleneck. Would have had same FPS with HD 3650. Went 3850 because I didn't know what the bottleneck would be exactly. My current rig pwns and can play anything, so glad to have it. Now I can't wait to embrace PCI-e 3.0 and another dual GPU setup in a few years. ^^

:banghead: no comment ... :laugh:

[T3kl0rd]

:banghead: no comment ... :laugh:Why quote me? Everyone else is saying upgrade too. :confused:

[_JP_]

JP you suggest that the Radeon HD5770 works on this motherboard? I looked at your specs and we have the same motherboard,audio, i used to have a 80gb also haha but just 2 500 now. Hmm im wondering then if i can upgrade my ram and card similar to your set up without any hitches?
I'm not suggesting, it really works. The HD5000 series run in these boards without problems, with the latest official BIOS. As for RAM, unless you really need to, 2GB is fine and enough. I just upgraded to 4GB because I got a very very very good deal on the sticks. Before this, I had 2x1GB and it was enough to do it all, considering you are using the same OS as me. Even now with the 3.2GB of ram I never top 1.7GB of used RAM when playing...so there isn't that much need, save your money on that. Also, this board is made to only recognize 2GB of RAM by default. I'm using a modified BIOS so that it can use a 4GB kit, of which only 3.25GB are usable (even in a 64-bit OS) due to chipset limitations.
*snip*
Ok, we all get it by now that you want nollo to fully upgrade his rig, there's no need to emphasize that in 6 (long and thoroughly explained) posts, we (I, at least) got the idea by the 1st one. Of course an upgrade would be the salvation to most of his issues, but may I remind you:
I am currently the most strapped for cash as I have ever been in my life haha, working on that of course
So, for now, nollo needs a cooler or a replacement card for his current rig. (something very low budget) Ok, AGP's not the best bus anymore, but if it suits nollo, why not? Plus, good PCI-e cards for this board are topped at the GTX 460 or the HD 5770. Anything better than that is just like having a Dodge Viper with bicycle wheels.

(tl: dr) My bottom line, see if you can get something that can cool your card, both core and RiAlto Bridge, or get some cheap PCI-e card. I suggest the HD 5670. Don't touch the rest and raise some cash, THEN buy a whole new system.

[jtleon]

I understand the age of this thread - I just wanted to share my latest experience in my own little legacy world.

Over the holiday break I wanted to make one last attempt to squeeze as much juice from my HIS 3850AGP ICEQ3 before giving up for the PCI-E world.

I was not aware of all the success documented here with the voltage mods. Rather I took things a totally different direction - this seems the best place to put these details - they may be useful in the OC efforts of others.

I have tested this theory now on two cards, the HIS and the Sapphire version.

Basically it appears that for a given cooling setup, i.e. a certain maximum loaded temperature, that the GPU has a "sweet spot" voltage and max speed setting at which all is stable.

For the HIS card, I was able to OC the GPU to 796Mhz @ 0.974V with a loaded max temp of 61°C at an ambient temp of 20.5°C.

For the Sapphire card, I was able to OC the GPU to 715Mhz @ 1.134V with a loaded max temp of 74°C.

From the above tests, I believe that HIS had binned their GPUs much more thoroughly given they were factory overclocked to 720Mhz, versus the Sapphire 669Mhz.

Just like with CPUs, GPUs have certain "steppings" which can overclock much better than others. The HIS chip seems to be a higher quality stepping. I will post a photo of the die shortly. The numbers on the HIS die are:

NG7804.00
0812SSY

It is a worthwhile effort to reduce voltage and discover the maximum overclock possible given the obvious power savings and lower loaded temperature that can be achieved. No one in this thread has event tried a lower voltage afaik.

[TRWOV]

I'm currently playing around with some leftovers I have, one of them being a HIS HD3850 Iceq3 Turbo AGP. I managed to take it to 810/1251 with stock voltages. It can do 824Mhz on the core with zero artifacts but after some minutes of gameplay it locks up so I left it at 810Mhz. Trying to break 12000 points in 3dmark06. :nutkick:

[jtleon]

TRWOV - I had the same problem, its very strange. As if there is some sort of speed limiter above 800Mhz.

My HIS card is rock solid at 796Mhz, but for no apparent reason, just 13Mhz higher and it will hang up (at the same 0.974V) - even when the GPU is less than 63°C max load (Furmark).

Another odd thing, is Furmark runs solid for hours at 810Mhz, but when I run Crysis 2, or NFSMW for a few minutes, the machine will hang. The problem seems to be related to DirectX - not OpenGL.

Now if my room is colder - say around 18°C, I have no problems running 810, 823, or even 836Mhz. So basically, at 0.974V I need to keep the max GPU temp below 60°C - that is a tough call for air cooling.

Did you try to reduce your GPU voltage? Also, your memory speeds may be causing the artifacts - I would drop them first - they have little effect on performance, much less than GPU speed.

[TRWOV]

Apparently it's some sort of overheat protection as just the GPU locks up (but doesn't crash) and I can still hear the game sounds. I tested with the 3dmark06 demo and it also locks up but the sounds keep playing as normal. I've tested at 810Mhz and haven't got any problems. With 3d06 demo running I get 69C. The fan never goes above 56% for some reason.

Odd thing, I can't set the GPU at anything over 810 until I hit 824. For example, if I set it at 820 GPUZ and CCC report 810. Once I set it at 824 it goes to 824.

For 2D and video acceleration it can do 860 but once a 3D application starts it crashes immediately. Maybe it needs more voltage but I haven't changed it, it's not my thing but I guess I'll give it a go just to see if anything changes. I'll report later tonight.

[de.das.dude]

why is the OP banned?

[jtleon]

Yes I hear the sounds too after it hangs. However, the sound does hang eventually as well, once the directx buffer is run out.

69C is still cold, and should not cause a crash - however, there is a particular voltage required for stable operation at 69C and your chosen clock speed.

I have found that for 2D operations, the card will keep running up to 115C at which it will throttle back (pause) and resume operation at 113C.

This overheat behavior has not been seen yet for 3D operation, as it will hang up before it gets that hot when clocks are above 796Mhz.

The speed is a factor of 13.5Mhz increments - half of the clock crystal frequency of 27Mhz.

So your reported speed choices are 796, 810, 823, 836, 849, etc. This is by design.





Apparently it's some sort of overheat protection as just the GPU locks up (but doesn't crash) and I can still hear the game sounds. I tested with the 3dmark06 demo and it also locks up but the sounds keep playing as normal. I've tested at 810Mhz and haven't got any problems. With 3d06 demo running I get 69C. The fan never goes above 56% for some reason.

Odd thing, I can't set the GPU at anything over 810 until I hit 824. For example, if I set it at 820 GPUZ and CCC report 810. Once I set it at 824 it goes to 824.

For 2D and video acceleration it can do 860 but once a 3D application starts it crashes immediately. Maybe it needs more voltage but I haven't changed it, it's not my thing but I guess I'll give it a go just to see if anything changes. I'll report later tonight.

[TRWOV]

The speed is a factor of 13.5Mhz increments - half of the clock crystal frequency of 27Mhz.

So your reported speed choices are 796, 810, 823, 836, 849, etc. This is by design.

So that is then :) I thought it might be related to my motherboard.

[jtleon]

TRWOV,

I suggest you try a lower voltage with the 823Mhz setting. You may find your card will be stable with lower voltage. My GPU is much more stable now at 0.974V (see screen capture from RBE 1.28 (Radeon Bios Editor from here at TPU downloads).

[TRWOV]

Tested again with the fan manually set at 80% and managed to complete 3dmark06 with 824/1251. Almost got 12000: http://3dmark.com/3dm06/16386367

Anyway, even with the fan at 100% and memory at stock clocks, with the GPU at 837 I can't even complete the first test. Retried with high AGP voltage and the situation didn't improve.

So, with appropriate cooling, 824/1251 is doable with stock voltages.

[jtleon]

Here are my 3DMark06 Results. These are on a very cold morning 18°C in my room.

At 837Mhz (7802):
http://3dmark.com/3dm06/16328471

At 823Mhz (7761):
http://3dmark.com/3dm06/16328309

At 810Mhz (7686):
http://3dmark.com/3dm06/16319283

You should try lower voltage - try 1.094V

[TRWOV]

TRWOV,

I suggest you try a lower voltage with the 823Mhz setting. You may find your card will be stable with lower voltage. My GPU is much more stable now at 0.974V (see screen capture from RBE 1.28 (Radeon Bios Editor from here at TPU downloads).
I've been toying with the idea of editing the bios for a higher overdrive threshold so that I wouldn't need to rely on MSI Afterburner. Is it relatively safe? I haven't tried because I don't have a spare card.

[jtleon]

RBE - Radeon Bios Editor is hosted here at TPU:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/Utilities/RBE/

I have used it at least 30 times with my card, and I have no problems.
You must copy the original bios to RBE and save a backup version.
Then use a bootable floppy with atiflash.exe to flash your bios from DOS boot.

I use ATIFLASH 3.59 because it is small enough to fit a floppy and will recognize the HIS card with no problem.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1061/ATIFlash%203.59.html

The DOS command to backup your bios is (saves to file backup.bin ):

atiflash -s 1 backup.bin

The DOS command to program your bios with your new bios file name "faster.bin"

atiflash -p 1 faster.bin

[TRWOV]

Tmax is at 106C in the bios :banghead: No wonder the fan never goes beyond 56%.

[TRWOV]

Sorry for not getting back to you.

I did some further testing and I've set my desired clocks at 824/1242. At 1251 I got some minor artifacts from time to time so I dialed it back to 1242.

This looks OK?
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9800/rbe1.png
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7808/rbe2.png

[jtleon]

WOW, so your 823/1242 - a very fast combination.

I see you are running low voltage 1.094V.

So you are stable with these settings?

Did you run FURMARK for more than one hour? Is your room warm above 20°C??

You must make sure you can be stable during the summer heat!

Great Job!

[TRWOV]

WOW, so your 823/1242 - a very fast combination.

I see you are running low voltage 1.094V.

So you are stable with these settings?

Did you run FURMARK for more than one hour? Is your room warm above 20°C??

You must make sure you can be stable during the summer heat!

Great Job!


Testing with Furmark ATM

EDIT: http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/furmark_192_score.php?id=30884

Do you think I should try lower voltages? Maybe 1.054v? I might lower the RAM clocks a notch more just in case.

I think that you could take the RAM to 1100 at least, that's the lowest I've seen these get to.

Going to run Furmark for an hour


EDIT 2: benchies

Cinebench OpenGL 37.95
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6213/cinebenchh.png


SF4 11806
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7317/sf4k.png


FF XIV 2208
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3143/ff14i.png

The Last Remnant 79.90
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1565/tlr.png


Lost Planet 2 35.8
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6790/lp2a.png


STALKER
http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/6125/stalkerpt.png


more benchies tonight... I have a QX6700 coming in soon, so I might be able to get higher scores if it holds with the x12 multi (3.2Ghz) :rockout:

[jtleon]

That looks very stable now!

You have a great HD3850 - let me know one day if you want to sell it!

I would just wait until summer to see if you have crashes - it might be OK - If there is a problem you can reduce the voltage again.

Enjoy!
jtleon

[TRWOV]

Just a question, if I leave "Clock info 00" at stock (669/829 1.214v), would the card boot fine, regardless of the modded voltages in the rest of the settings?

I think I'll shoot for 0.974v but I fear that the card wouldn't even boot if I put it at that. The clock info 01-09 are only active in Windows, right?

[jtleon]

Clock Info 00 is only for boot up and DOS operation. Never used in Windows.

I set mine for 540Mhz/829Mhz/0.974V with no problems. You might try this too.

If you can run 823Mhz @ 0.974V, then you have a majical HD3850! Good Luck!

[TRWOV]

If I understood correctly:

- clock info 00 = 669/829 1.214v
- clock info 01-09 = 824/1242 0.974v

Even if 01-09 is unstable in Windows, during boot up 00 should work fine, right? So I should be able to flash it back without problems, shouldn't I?

[jtleon]

Yes that is correct!

[StanMen]

Testing with Furmark ATM

EDIT: http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/furmark_192_score.php?id=30884

Do you think I should try lower voltages? Maybe 1.054v? I might lower the RAM clocks a notch more just in case.

I think that you could take the RAM to 1100 at least, that's the lowest I've seen these get to.

Going to run Furmark for an hour


EDIT 2: benchies

Cinebench OpenGL 37.95
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6213/cinebenchh.png


SF4 11806
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7317/sf4k.png


FF XIV 2208
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3143/ff14i.png

The Last Remnant 79.90
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1565/tlr.png


Lost Planet 2 35.8
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6790/lp2a.png


STALKER
http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/6125/stalkerpt.png


more benchies tonight... I have a QX6700 coming in soon, so I might be able to get higher scores if it holds with the x12 multi (3.2Ghz) :rockout:

OMG OMG THIS IS AN HD3850 just like my ! and look wat this baby can doo! men give me 5! hehe and this gra card can take more than some of a new card's with bus PCI-E so let the AGP live a bit more :D

[uuuaaaaaa]

well my sister's rig, it was mine previouslly:

Ic7-Max3
P4 3.2E SL7E5 (can easly do 4.0GHz)
2Gb of Patriot XblK (samsung Tccd chips)
Sapphire HD3850

Ah, everything is watercooled :D

I might just give it a try and see how it performs!

only got 5.6K on default settings 3Dmark 06....
I guess the cpu is killing it

[TRWOV]

Success :rockout:

824/1233 0.974v

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7693/furmarka.png

I think it can do 850. I'll run some benchmarks and see. :cool:


EDIT: No luck. At anything over 824 the GPU locks up after few seconds of 3D load. The low voltage seems to have affected the memory as I got some artifacts at 1242 and 1233 so I had to reduce the RAM speed to 1215. Ran a few benchmarks and there's no artifacts present so final settings are 824/1215 0.974v.

[jtleon]

Success :rockout:

EDIT: No luck. At anything over 824 the GPU locks up after few seconds of 3D load. The low voltage seems to have affected the memory as I got some artifacts at 1242 and 1233 so I had to reduce the RAM speed to 1215. Ran a few benchmarks and there's no artifacts present so final settings are 824/1215 0.974v.

Very Excellent - Remember if you upgrade and want to sell - let me know! Your card should have no problems in the summer!
jtleon

[jtleon]

Now consider if you want to go faster, you must improve your cooling. I have upgraded my cooling so now you see my maximum is around 60° C (per Furmark below). But my card is not so good as yours - you may reach 900Mhz if you have better cooling. I have attached a picture of my new cooler - its from ZEROtherm - but I have changed the fan.

http://www.zerotherm.net/eng/product/GX815.asp

[jtleon]

I have reached 837.5 stable so far - but not with the HIS card.
Now I am running a Sapphire HD3850agp and stable at 837.5/1033 GPU/MEM.
The voltage is set at 1.254. This card seems to have more speed available, so I will try a faster clock and report.

[TRWOV]

Is that so? Now I wish I hadn't sold my old Sapphire 3850 AGP :(

I'm thinking about installing a better cooler on my HIS, this one specifically: http://www.gelidsolutions.com/products/index.php?lid=1&cid=17&id=52

but I don't know if the mounting holes match the HIS card. I hate when the specs say "Compatible with X, Y, Z" instead of listing the distance between the mounting holes :banghead:

I've measured and apparently the HIS has 73mm spacing. I'm waiting to receive a reply from the manufacturer about the mounting hole spacing.

[jtleon]

The hole spacing is 53mm square pattern. 73mm may be the diagonal distance - I never measured. I know 53 is correct, as I have installed many custom heatsinks drilled at 53mm.

You have the greatest card - you have the best performance at the lowest power!

Be VERY careful with your card - it is "one-of-a-kind" ! I want to buy it when you upgrade.

That GELID cooler looks very powerful if it will fit!
jtleon

I've measured and apparently the HIS has 73mm spacing. I'm waiting to receive a reply from the manufacturer about the mounting hole spacing.

[TRWOV]

Yes, 73mm is the diagonal distance. Apparently there wouldn't be any clearance issues, the heatsink sits about 10mm above components. What I like is that it isn't any taller than the card, my case has about 1.5cm of clearance above the cards due to the side fan.




That GELID cooler looks very powerful if it will fit!

Yes, and the blue fans will match the board ;)

[TRWOV]

I haven't heard back from Gelid but I finally found a review that states the mounting spacing and it also has a diagram:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/gelid-icy-vision_2.html

I've made some preliminary measurements and it seems that it should fit the card nicely. The only thing I don't like a lot is that the fans are 2000RPM. In my experience, for 92mm a quiet fan must be around 1400RPM. I'll look into voltmodding them.



Got the QX6700 :rockout: New benchmarks with QX6700 @ 3.24Ghz (270FSBx12) and HD3850 @824/1215/0.974v


3dmark06 12418 http://3dmark.com/3dm06/16460120

3dmark05 17327 http://3dmark.com/3dm05/5435472

3dmark03 37660 http://3dmark.com/3dm03/6459461

This was with a Q6700 2.66Ghz and 3850 @ 810/1251/1.254v
3dmark Vantage P5206 http://3dmark.com/3dmv/3796394

Is it's just me or Vantage is REALLY crash happy? I've seen the whole benchmark run ONCE. That result above was obtained after 5 crashes with my previous setup. I don't know how much the score scales with CPU speed but I'd guess my present config would get about 50 extra points because of the increased CPU speed (+600Mhz)

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1748/cine64.png

UNIGINE Tropics benchmark (DX10)
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/9858/tropics.png

The Last Remnant
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5518/tlri.png

Final Fantasy XIV
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1238/ff14.png

Resident Evil 5 Play Test DX10
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5464/re5a.png

Resident Evil 5 Fixed Test DX10
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5536/re5b.png

Street Fighter 4
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4063/sf4e.png

Lost Planet 2 Test A DX9
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6790/lp2a.png

Lost Planet 2 Test B DX9
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/245/lp2b.png

Monster Hunter Frontier Bench 3
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5632/mhf1.png

Monster Hunter Frontier Bench 2
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5158/mhf3.png

Monster Hunter Frontier Bench 1
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6421/mhf2.png

World in Conflict Very High 1440x900
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/6844/wicl.png



http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2241/img8408rl.jpg
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/5654/img8410s.jpg

[Completely Bonkers]

Nice. Best AGP system. 10/10

[TRWOV]

I've reconsidered and I'm not going to buy the Icy Vision. The lowest I've found it is about $50 and I don't think I'll get my money's worth, unless I could OC to some crazy speed like >900Mhz (doubtful).:ohwell:

Instead I replaced the TIM on the stock heatsink and temps went down about 3ºC with CM Ice Fusion, which is pretty low end. The old thermal paste was all hardened up and cooked. :eek:

I think getting a better TIM is the way to go. Even if I can't get my HIS above 824Mhz I'd like it to be cooler. What's a good TIM for GPUs?

[jtleon]

Yes 3DMark06 is designed to test the full suite of DirectX9 capabilities of your grafx card. Very much similar to Crysis 2. This means that all of the GPU DirectX work paths are stressed when you run 3DMark06 - more than 3DMark05, 03, etc. Many older games also fail to test the full GPU.

Crysis 2 is now the leader in stressing your DX9 hardware. If you are Crysis2 stable (no hanging, no crashing) then your equipment is truly stable.

I was only able to run 3DMark06 at 837Mhz GPU with my room very cold at 18°C. I cannot run such a speed at 20°C room temperature.

I believe the GELID TC-GC03-A Extreme TIM is the best you can buy now - just do search for the many good reviews. I have always used Arctic Silver 5, but the GELID product is claimed to be better.

I am sorry to hear you will not use the GELID Icy Vision 2 - it is the King of coolers today. I am sure you can keep it for your next card upgrade.

jtleon

[TRWOV]

Maybe if I find a used one I'll bite. I don't want to sink a lot of money into this since there is no upgrade path left; I only bought the QX6700 because I got it for the same amount that the Q6700 goes so basically I got a 600Mhz bump for free.

Thanks for the suggestion on the GELID GC03, I'll look into it. I'll test with Crysis 2 later. :rockout:

[FreedomEclipse]

I believe the GELID TC-GC03-A Extreme TIM is the best you can buy now

Arctic MX-4 is 1 or 2'c better according to hardwareheavens review (http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/986/pg5/arctic-mx-4-thermal-paste-review-thermal-performance.html)

AC MX-4 is usually easier to get and i think slightly bit cheaper where more widely available.

[jtleon]

Let me first say that I have never used GELID's TIMs.
However there are so many positive reviews, I cannot imagine it is no good. There are many reputable sites on this list. I still use AS5 regardless of its many shortcomings (I still have alot left).

http://www.gelidsolutions.com/products/index.php?lid=1&cid=3&id=42&tab=4

Arctic MX-4 is 1 or 2'c better according to hardwareheavens review (http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/986/pg5/arctic-mx-4-thermal-paste-review-thermal-performance.html)

AC MX-4 is usually easier to get and i think slightly bit cheaper where more widely available.

[TRWOV]

Would that work fine with ATi GPUs? I recall a TIM roundup at xbit labs where the IC Diamond got to the top of the CPU TIMs but fared badly with gpus.

[FreedomEclipse]

Would that work fine with ATi GPUs? I recall a TIM roundup at xbit labs where the IC Diamond got to the top of the CPU TIMs but fared badly with gpus.

If you are directing your question at me - I have used MX-4 on 1 4870, 2 5850's and 1 8800GTS(G92) On my laptops as well as on my old Q9550, on my current i5 rig and any other rig ive built or rebuilt over the last year or so.

I would put MX-4 on my 6970's but XFX wont allow me to take the cooler off without voiding warranty.

theres nothing I like better then watching my £300+ a peice graphic cards overheat and die... courtesy of those great people at XFX who truely are 120% behind the enthusiast

In the words of Sir Micheal Caine...

"The engine's overheating, and so am I! Either we stand down, or blow up! Now which do you want?" - Sir Micheal Caine, Battle Of Britain (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/quotes)

[jtleon]

ATI GPU's have very "poor" mating surfaces. This is because ATI wants to laser mark their GPU's with ENORMOUS company logo (ATI). Also, almost all ATI GPU surfaces are "dished" i.e. the corners of the die are "higher" than the center of the die. This means that no matter how flat your heatsink may be (polished, mirrored, etc.), you cannot achieve an excellent interface without dishing your heatsink identical to the GPU dish contour.

The only way to achieve the best possible thermal interface on an ATI GPU die is to apply a small bead of TIM at the center of the die (as close as you can - use a popsicle stick to push the bead into position).

Then assemble the heatsink assembly completely. If you are using a thick TIM (like AS5) use a hair dryer or other heat gun to heat up the heatsink (carefully - do not melt any plastics) as much as possible to ensure the bead of TIM has spread completely throughout the "dish" gap between the GPU and the heatsink.

The real secret to best success is to use as small a bead of TIM as possible and still achieve full die coverage. Remember you need enough to fill in the ATI logo, and cover the rest of the die. I estimate the best bead size for the HD3850 is about the size of a medium couscous (dry) or a red lentil (dry).

jtleon
Would that work fine with ATi GPUs? I recall a TIM roundup at xbit labs where the IC Diamond got to the top of the CPU TIMs but fared badly with gpus.

[TRWOV]

Well, apparently the system isn't 100% stable. I've been replaying Crysis 2 (at Post-Human Warrior difficulty :D is it me or it's actually easier? :confused:) and from time to time the game crashes. Sometimes I can go for hours without a crash and then bam! and at other time crash in five minutes and sometimes I finish my play session without any issue.

The crashes seem to be random, I've got them at calm scenes and in heavy fire situations so I can't really put where the blame lies. Might also be the motherboard or CPU, as at FSB272 the system crashes (currenly I'm running 270x12). I think I'll lower the FSB to stock values and see if that changes anything.

Haven't got that problem in any other game or application so it might just be a software conflict instead.

[jtleon]

Count on Crysis 2 to find any weakness in your system. I had to start over - format C: - to fix all of my system problems - to stabilize Crysis 2.

Make sure you re-install the latest Direct X version. Often such crashes are tied to a corrupted DirectX file from a past crash.

Also, run chkdsk /f to make sure there are not disk errors from other crashes.

jtleon

[FreedomEclipse]

have you tested that your OC is stable for your graphics card? (just out of curiosity)

When ever i OC my cards, I usually give it 30-45mins in furmark at maximum stress before I deem it stable and its always worked out fine for me

[TRWOV]

have you tested that your OC is stable for your graphics card? (just out of curiosity)

When ever i OC my cards, I usually give it 30-45mins in furmark at maximum stress before I deem it stable and its always worked out fine for me

Yes:

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7693/furmarka.png



Crysis 2 crashes to the desktop (the usual "X has found a problem and must close" message) so maybe it's due to a software issue. I'll reinstall DX and try again.

[FreedomEclipse]

If you drop the card back to stock clocks, does your PC still suffer from random lockups?

[jtleon]

Yes for OpenGL stability, you cannot beat Furmark. However, for DirectX stability (the majority of the chip's die is devoted to DirectX code), you MUST use a DirectX stability test.

The problem is, outside of Futuremark, there are very few comprehensive DirectX stability tests to be had.

Here is one product which includes a DirectX stability test (buried deep inside mind you).

http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm

I am still looking for a better DirectX stability test (hopefully freeware).

And to make matters worse, that stability test needs to have ALL the DX9, DX10, and DX11 codes available for testing (including turning those off if not supported in the GPU).

jtleon

have you tested that your OC is stable for your graphics card? (just out of curiosity)
When ever i OC my cards, I usually give it 30-45mins in furmark at maximum stress before I deem it stable and its always worked out fine for me

[FreedomEclipse]

Yes for OpenGL stability, you cannot beat Furmark. However, for DirectX stability (the majority of the chip's die is devoted to DirectX code), you MUST use a DirectX stability test.

The problem is, outside of Futuremark, there are very few comprehensive DirectX stability tests to be had.

Here is one product which includes a DirectX stability test (buried deep inside mind you).

http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm

I am still looking for a better DirectX stability test (hopefully freeware).

And to make matters worse, that stability test needs to have ALL the DX9, DX10, and DX11 codes available for testing (including turning those off if not supported in the GPU).

jtleon

After stress i load up a few games like BC2/BF3 or L4D. I rarely have an occasion where a OC is not stable enough for gaming after 30-45mins of furmark but its only a test of time anyway. But ive done the same thing with every GPU ive ever owned and ive only had it come up only once when i was testing a 5850 Xtreme - Stable in furmark but not so good

[jtleon]

Keep in mind that many games are DX "lightweights" on purpose - to ensure the "mainstream" user can enjoy the game. For example, in Crysis 2 I can drop the "post processing" setting from Ultra to Extreme, and I can run a much higher overclock without crashes. However, the game looks so much better with the Ultra setting (debris flying everywhere - lots of birds, smoke, etc.). I prefer to have no limits on my overclock.

Also, I think this problem we are facing is the amount of overclock. Us AGP ppl have no more powerful card option than the HD3850 - so our only option is to maximize our overclock. Given that this GPU is factory set at 669mhz - by the time we break 800Mhz we are quickly approaching the 33% overclock mark. Consider all your OC experience - how many cards were stable at 33% overclock - with a factory heatsink?
jtleon

After stress i load up a few games like BC2/BF3 or L4D. I rarely have an occasion where a OC is not stable enough for gaming after 30-45mins of furmark but its only a test of time anyway. But ive done the same thing with every GPU ive ever owned and ive only had it come up only once when i was testing a 5850 Xtreme - Stable in furmark but not so good

[FreedomEclipse]

LOL I had a X850XTPE that could overclock like a boss. though I never really took it past the ATi overdrive limits but they were set pretty high back then....I think i managed to drag the slider all the way to the right on the core. and still not suffer any instabilities, though I did have an Arctic Silencer on it.

good card, I still have it. unfortunately the board I paired up with failed to boot after 2 or 3 years of being in storage.

[jtleon]

Looking at power consumption - something I have worried about with this older GPU - we see that the power demand increases with the square of the supplied voltage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_dissipation

This power vs. voltage relationship is why TRWOV's card is so great - 824Mhz @ 0.974V is outstanding, as its VRM's are basically running cooler than the factory voltage (1.214V).

My current Sapphire card is running the factory 1.214V @ 796Mhz. Looking at the HIS card vs. the Sapphire card, I believe the Sapphire is using much cheaper VRM's. So far I have been unable to remove the Sapphire VRM heatsink.

Thus we must consider our VRM's performance limits. Does the factory VRM sinks also need a TIM upgrade? I seriously doubt the factory designed for a 33% overclock - at that time, such an overclock would push this card well ahead of the HD3870 in performance. That would hurt the sales of their flagship.

I suspect we need to improve the VRM cooling if we want better stability at this high OC. The HIS card has a much better VRM heatsink than the Sapphire (they are not interchangeable), even though the Sapphire sink is bigger (another reason the VRM's are cheaper i.e. bigger sinks are needed on less efficient VRM's).

The HIS VRM's are much higher quality (see attached photo). Sapphire and Power Color both use the same cheap VRM's

jtleon

[jtleon]

I ran a side by side test - same ambient temp etc. - and found MX-2 to provide an average of 2° C better performance than AS5! Very impressive.

I broke down and bought GELID EXTREME for testing. I will report shortly.

[TRWOV]

I ran a few CPU tests and I think that it's the CPU or my mobo's VRMs. If I go from a cold boot and run IBT standard it passes but after a few minutes of warm up if I run IBT again it crashes almost immediately. Maybe my VRMs can't supply stable power after getting warm or certain CPU logic goes beyond its operative thermal threshold.

I've lowered my CPU clocks to 270x11 (2.97Ghz) and it manages to complete 50 runs of IBT maximum. Sadly there is no 11.5 multi as I tested and the CPU can do 3.125Ghz (260x12 IBT stable). Crysis 2 is working fine (for now).

I'll look into getting VRM heatsinks. These should work nicely: http://www.enzotechnology.com/mos-c1.htm Once I install them I'll post back.

Maybe I'll get another board too (they go for $20 nowadays) just in case this one goes down in flames ;)

[jtleon]

Ok, this is the truth.

I just tested the new GELID Extreme TIM that arrived today.

Running Furmark for a few minutes with GELID Extreme, the GPU reached 91°C.

With MX-2, the GPU reaches 87°C.

Clearly Arctic Cooling has a better product!

jtleon

[TRWOV]

Nice, I'll make sure to get some :rockout:

[jtleon]

Ok, I have found a very good DirectX9, 10, & 11 benchmark.

http://unigine.com/products/sanctuary/#download
http://unigine.com/products/tropics/#download

These benchmarks load the full DX9,10,or 11 features and push your GPU to its limits. They provide you with an FPS counter as well as many other features.

They run endlessly so you can run GPU-Z and watch your GPU temps go up, with fan % etc.

jteon

PS. This benchmark (Tropics) has crashed my machine today after running for about 30 minutes. It is very warm today (73°F) in my office. I think this benchmark should replace Furmark for stability testing.

[TRWOV]

I had Tropics but not sanctuary. I'll download it now.

I spent the afternoon finishing the lapping of the CPU. I bought it lapped but I think the final grit was 800 or something. I went to 2000 :banghead:

Original
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8746/img8407i.jpg


After 5 hours of sanding:
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4715/img8510i.jpg

I tried to focus on the screw but the camera kept focusing on the reflection instead

Hopefully this will help with my CPU stability issues.

[jtleon]

Very nice - I need to find some 2000 paper.

Make sure you have the latest Tropics version - 1.3.

Tropics is total torture on my GPU - I can only run twice through before crashing tonight.

GPU-Z consistently reports 72°C on the GPU before each crash. My current OC is 796/1066 @ 1.254V. I am using the original Sapphire heatsink.

[jtleon]

See for yourself - avg 55°C running C2. This is the Sapphire card @ 837/1099 @ 1.254V.

I am using this old Zerotherm cooler (with a fan mod). And...I am using the GELID Extreme GC TIM (since I am almost out of MX-2).

Note that all C2 graphics settings are on ULTRA.

[TRWOV]

Haha! I'm playing that same level right now.

Impressive clocks on that Sapphire. I might break down and get the Icy Vision after all just to see how far can my HIS card go.

I'm sad to report that the lapping didn't improve my CPU stability. I'm starting to think that my board is the weak link. The 865 chipset wasn't supposed to support FSB1066 quad cores in the first place plus the board only has 4 power phases; it's a feat that it runs as well as it does.

[jtleon]

Just a minute - Did you pull the chipset heatsink on the left of the CPU (in your picture) and replace its TIM with good stuff - and lap that chipset sink since your taking it off. Your chipset needs just as much love as the CPU.

Also, locate the mobo VRMs - do they have sinks? Like you said before you need to put on those as well - since you are pushing the system beyond its design limits. I will put up a photo of my setup here - to show how crazy things can get.

I took an old CPU sink, cut it up, lapped the pieces, and used high conductive epoxy - attaching to all the naked VRM's of this board. With the Blue Orb supplying plenty of flow, these VRM's are mucho cool.

Haha! I'm playing that same level right now.
Impressive clocks on that Sapphire. I might break down and get the Icy Vision after all just to see how far can my HIS card go.
I'm sad to report that the lapping didn't improve my CPU stability. I'm starting to think that my board is the weak link. The 865 chipset wasn't supposed to support FSB1066 quad cores in the first place plus the board only has 4 power phases; it's a feat that it runs as well as it does.

[TRWOV]

My board doesn't have VRM heatsinks:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9562/56492top.jpg

I'll be replacing the NB heatsink shortly with a copper one and I'm looking for a shop to order the Enzotech VRM heatsinks from.

[jtleon]

Ok..my best 3DMark06 ever...7854!

http://3dmark.com/3dm06/16499444

[jtleon]

I wanted to test a Power Color HD3850 AGP - so using the Accelero S1 cooler with NO fan - above 800Mhz! I am enjoying the silence too - I don't know if I can stand going back to a noisy fan now!

Any updates TRWOV?

[Jstn7477]

I have a Sapphire 3850 AGP from ~2008, and I've recently resurrected it in a Sony Pentium 4 desktop with a 2.66GHz P4 @ 3.0GHz/150, 2GB Corsair DDR RAM and the original ASUS P4S533-VL (SiS 651 motherboard). Obviously, this system is a huge bottleneck, but I have been playing with my card and have it at 700/1000 @ 1.134v. 750MHz crashes even at the next voltage step, and by then the card runs pretty hot, so I'm fine with my current frequencies. Also the PCB under the VRM area is discolored brown so I'm taking it easy considering I have some new boards on the way.

Anyway, I just discovered Geeks.com and their selection of ancient refurbished boards for $25 a pop, so I literally bought 5, yes 5, refurbished boards to play with, since I have no common sense. :D

ASRock P4VM890 (installing 2.6GHz/800 P4 and random DDR)
ASRock K8NF6P-VSTA (Installing 2.4GHz 256K Athlon 64 and random DDR)
ASRock AM2NF3-VSTA (Installing 3850 AGP + Phenom 9750 + random DDR2)
ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 (Installing BFG 7800GS + E6400 + random DDR2)
ASRock 775XFire-VSTA (might stay in the box for a while)

Probably going to stick with XP on most of them. Hopefully the NForce3 250 board isn't going to be a giant problem with XP, as I'm sure Vista or 7 may have driver problems with the chipset. At $25 each I don't really care if they go up in flames in a month, but hopefully they don't. :)

Speaking of drivers, anyone know of any 3850 hotfix drivers that don't suck balls? I literally can't even launch 3DMark03/06 on this rig with the 12.1 XP hotfix drivers, which is completely retarded.

[jtleon]

My current favorite driver is the Nitrous version 10.6 found here:

http://radeon.ru/downloads/drivers/n2o/

You must follow the install directions specifically - or they will not install.

jtleon

[Jstn7477]

I know it's not a 3850, but I believe my "unbreakable" BFG Tech 7800GS (G70 256MB) is finally on its last legs. It gets some nasty polygonal artifacts in Troll's Lair and Nature in 3DMark03, no matter the clock speeds, fan speed or PSU. Had this card since like 2007 and it's been in a ton of systems. :(

That leaves me with just the 3850 and an OEM ASUS GeForce4 MX 440 w/ 64MB 128bit DDR. I'm considering either getting a PowerColor 3450 AGP or a GeForce 6200 DDR2 if I need an extra card, but I'm torn between them since the 3450 is probably much faster than a 6200 but the 6200 is a universal, real AGP card.

[TRWOV]

I wanted to test a Power Color HD3850 AGP - so using the Accelero S1 cooler with NO fan - above 800Mhz! I am enjoying the silence too - I don't know if I can stand going back to a noisy fan now!

Any updates TRWOV?


Haven't done much. I've been playing Crysis and Warhead plus some Mirror's Edge. I've stuck with the CPU multi at 11x and, apart from the Crysis 2 crashes, haven't got any problems.

I had my sights on a used Icy Vision but didn't win the auction. :(

[jtleon]

Mirror's Edge - I have wondered about that game - is it worth buying?

[TRWOV]

It is a first person platform game that actually works. The levels are quite big and although there is a set path you can choose several ways to navigate the environment. You can get weapons by disarming the bad guys but it isn't advisable to play as an FPS as two or three shots are enough to kill you, your best bet is to run and jump.The graphics are very "clean", for lack of a better word. The keyboard controls are ok but some maneuvers are a bit awkward (specially the jump - turn - jump). Nothing a little customization wouldn't fix.

I'm playing mainly to test my PPU. I had some rough time getting it to work, it seems that the latest Physx drivers had some libraries missing and ME wouldn't detect the card. Had to use the 8.06 drivers.

[Jstn7477]

Got my boards in tonight. The P4VM890 was DOA but the rest work. I put together my AM2NF3-VSTA tonight with a stock Phenom 9750, 4*1GB DDR2 533, Windows XP SP3 and my 7800GS that acted broken on a P4 system but works fine on the AM2NF3-VSTA.

Let me tell you what, this is the fastest AGP board I have ever owned, and just in 3DMark01 I have ridiculous framerates I have never seen with P4 or Skt. 754 rigs and my 7800 GS.

26632 points in 3DM01 on a 7800GS G70 256MB @ 450/1300. P4 2.8GHz gets ~15K. Can't wait to get my 3850 in this rig and see what it can do. :D

[TRWOV]

I heard that the AM2NF3 had some issues with Rialto (the pcie-to-agp chip that ATi uses) but I don't know if those had been resolved later with a bios or driver. If you get it up and working I might have another AGP system to build :D

[Jstn7477]

I heard that the AM2NF3 had some issues with Rialto (the pcie-to-agp chip that ATi uses) but I don't know if those had been resolved later with a bios or driver. If you get it up and working I might have another AGP system to build :D

Yeah, I'll play with it more and see. I do know there are some crazy CPU/OS/card limitations but I'll let you guys know how that goes. :)

[Jstn7477]

Just got my Sapphire HD 3850 AGP running in my ASRock AM2NF3-VSTA (Under XP w/ 12.1 Cat AGP Hotfix, have not tested 7 yet where it may not work) and a quick 3DMark2001 run got me 32538 points at 700/1000 clocks.

I'm going to install '03 and '06 and bench the 3850, as well as swapping the 7800GS back in and seeing how well it fares. I'll update this post in a bit. :D

EDIT: OH, I forgot AMD drivers suck balls and I cannot launch 3DMark2003/2006 on XP. Going to try some driver from 2010 and see if it works. :banghead:

[TRWOV]

I think that W7 windows update has nforce3 drivers, you should give it a go. You'll need other mean to connect to WU, like an USB WLAN adapter or something though.

You can always go back to XP if that doesn't work.

[Jstn7477]

Just tried Win7 on another HDD, and Microsoft did release their own nForce3 drivers with it, but the AMD drivers or whatever senses a multi-core CPU present and they get a code 43 or something, so it's stuck in VGA mode. Windows XP runs fine AFAIK except for 3DMark03/06 hanging with a full core of CPU usage on their splash screens with the 3850. 7800GS and MX 440 had no such issues if I recall. I may be stuck with the 7800GS in this rig, and I'll have to try out the PT880 Ultra board I got (775/PCIe x4/AGP 8x/E6400 C2D) and see if VIA has drivers worth a ****.

I wish the last company to release AGP cards didn't have notoriously bad drivers, and I wish the green team wasn't dumb either for not releasing any drivers for NF3, their last chipset before "bumpgate."

EDIT: Adding the flag -nosysteminfo to the target skips the broken system scan. Huzzah.

EDIT2: 3DMark03, 3850 on XP w/ 10.4 drivers: 31460 GPU/1574 CPU. Wow.
EDIT3: 3DMark06, 3850 on XP w/ 10.4 drivers: 10841 total (4228 SM2.0, 4815 SM 3.0, 3521 CPU).

Quite awesome to finally see my AGP cards unleashed by a "beefy" Phenom X4 lol.

[eidairaman1]

Vid Driver needed for WIn 7 64bit

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CatalystAGPHotfix.aspx


http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=33128&st=0&p=184323&#entry184323

Cod43 error is due to NV not providing Proper GART for Vista (Vista Driver and 7 are similar but 7 is more adept at driver support to extent)



Just tried Win7 on another HDD, and Microsoft did release their own nForce3 drivers with it, but the AMD drivers or whatever senses a multi-core CPU present and they get a code 43 or something, so it's stuck in VGA mode. Windows XP runs fine AFAIK except for 3DMark03/06 hanging with a full core of CPU usage on their splash screens with the 3850. 7800GS and MX 440 had no such issues if I recall. I may be stuck with the 7800GS in this rig, and I'll have to try out the PT880 Ultra board I got (775/PCIe x4/AGP 8x/E6400 C2D) and see if VIA has drivers worth a ****.

I wish the last company to release AGP cards didn't have notoriously bad drivers, and I wish the green team wasn't dumb either for not releasing any drivers for NF3, their last chipset before "bumpgate."

EDIT: Adding the flag -nosysteminfo to the target skips the broken system scan. Huzzah.

[Jstn7477]

Yeah, I might just get a Sempron 130 for this board for $30 and Windows 7 could run fine, but I'm not worried about it. It's been a fun experiment nonetheless.

If anything, I'll probably pick up some DDR2 RAM because I just have crappy 533MHz pulls in there right now.

[eidairaman1]

via/sis fixed the issue quick, nv was greedy

[TRWOV]

I once had the AM2NF3 in mind when I still owned an X1950PRO but the NF3 woes pushed me towards my current Conroe865PE. Pretty solid board, worked with W7 out of the box. The only "issue" is that due to a chipset limitation only 3519MB can be recognized by the OS even in 64bit.

I still might give the AM2NF3 a chance if I can get the parts for cheap. I'm thinking a PII x4 945, 4GB DDR2 and HD4670 AGP

[eidairaman1]

http://www.asrock.com/support/note/AM2NF3-VSTA.html#Phenom

[Jstn7477]

So I tried XP x64 on the AM2NF3-VSTA, and the video drivers worked with the 3850, but performance was terribad graphics-wise. The 3850 only scored ~12000 points in 3DMark03 which is much less than the 32K I got with regular XP. Looks like this will be an XP only machine, which I'm alright with. Can't complain about $25 refurbished motherboards and parts I already have and can finally use/test again. :)

Anyway, tonight is ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 night as I put aside the AM2NF3-VSTA. I picked up some 2GB DDR2-800 sticks and some crappy Rocketfish CPU cooler (it's some 92mm 3 heatpipe HDTdeal that looks like a Cooler Master) from Worstbuy (I don't want to wait a week with Newegg, damnit) so I'm going to see what I can get out of my elderly E6400. I already noticed there is a 3.3GB address limit with the PT880 Ultra so I'm in the same boat as the Conroe865PE owners.

I really want to try out my Pentium Dual Core E6600 (Wolfdale 1066/2M) and see if it even works. If it does work, and Windows 7 works properly with great AGP support, this will probably be my good AGP rig. My AM2NF3-VSTA will probably stick with the 7800GS and sit around if this other board works better.

[TRWOV]

I think there's a modded bios for the 4CoreDual-SATA2 that goes around the RAM limit. Let me see if I find the link.


EDIT: Brain fart. The modded bios added support for 2GB DDR2 modules (the original bios only work with 1GB sticks). 3.3GB is still the limit:

http://www.pctreiber.net/asrock-bios-downloads?did=102