Raw Deal from Mushkin Memory

[bobyjo]

RawDeal from Mushkin Memory
I finally heard from Diane, she actually wants me to pay a restocking fee of $19.50 to return this new RMA'ed memory and pay the difference between the Blue line 2-3-3-6 to the Blue TCC5 sticks.

THIS SUCKS BIG TIME!!!

I am not gonna pay a restocking fee on memory that I told Diane would not work, before she sent to me.

l talked to her this past Thursday, and tried to tell her the memory would not work.
She cut me off, and told me the new memory would be here Mon or Tues. Then she hung up.
I will post this on every forum I belong to if they do not make this rignt with me.
THAT IS A PROMISE, not a threat. BJ

[Dippyskoodlez]

RawDeal from Mushkin Memory
I finally heard from Diane, she actually wants me to pay a restocking fee of $19.50 to return this new RMA'ed memory and pay the difference between the Blue line 2-3-3-6 to the Blue TCC5 sticks.

THIS SUCKS BIG TIME!!!

I am not gonna pay a restocking fee on memory that I told Diane would not work, before she sent to me.

l talked to her this past Thursday, and tried to tell her the memory would not work.
She cut me off, and told me the new memory would be here Mon or Tues. Then she hung up.
I will post this on every forum I belong to if they do not make this rignt with me.
THAT IS A PROMISE, not a threat. BJ

Dude.. mushkin isnt nuts. If you're going to bash them, atleast post the whole story, not a random spam from the middle of an RMA issue.

What ram did you RMA? and why do they need to swap kinds? why does it not work? ive yet to see a mobo not like any of my mushkin ram.. even my DFI plays very nicely with the value-ist of value ram.

[bobyjo]

Please don't call me "Dude", I am a Texan, if I was from NewYork or somewhere that might work. When I first started the build of the AV8, I called Mushkin for memory that will work in dual channed. I talked to Diane (customer service mgr) and she is the one that suggested the memory I purchased. This memory refused to work in the AV8.
I called tech people at Mushkin and was told there was nothing wrong with thier memory, they did not support the AV8.
No offer for refund, replacement, nothing except I should try a different mobo.
I went through three nF3 Ultra boards, the memory worked with those boards, but would not run above 200.
I had to run the memroy below default speeds in order for the board to run.
When I decided on building anyther AV8, I looked on thier site and LOW & BEHOLD the K8T800 is listed as certified to run on this board, Blue Line HP. Same memory that I have.
I called and was given a RMA by Diane, I returned the memory and they tested the memory and found it defective.
Diane told me they were going to send a new set of memroy sticks of the Blue Line.
I asked her what were we to do, if the memory refused to work.
She said the reason the memroy would not work was because it was defective.
The memory does not work, that is why I asked for a replacement with a memory that had TCCD or TCC5 chips, because they will work.

[bobyjo]

Hi B.J.
George has agreed that we will offer you an opportunity to exchange those modules for $58.50 plus shipping.
This amount is the difference in today’s price between 991433 (2 x 512mb blue) and 991357 (2 x 512 xp3200 with Samsung tcc5 chips) which is $39.00 , and a 15% restocking fee of $19.50 for a total of $58.50.
Shipping terms are either $16 for overnight, $9 for 2day and $6 for 3-5day.
You can return the product again to Mushkin:
Attn RMA 71400
333 W Colfax Ave Ste 400
Denver CO 80204


This is the actual copy of the email from Diane about the exchange sticks. I feel if they will remove the restocking fee and shipping, I would propably pay the difference. I have already been out over $20 shipping the memory back to them 2nd day.

[bobyjo]

I have filed a complaint with the BBB yesterday. Don't know what will come out of this.
Seems as they don't have any complaints left unresolved. Maybe they will come around.
All I ask is Mushkin replaces this memory with sticks that works with the AV8.
I don't really feel that price should be a factor in this.
If Diane had told this (a different) memory will work in your AV8, the cost will be $120.00 for a dual channel kit.
I wouild have purchased that memory and this problem would not ever have come to light.

[Dippyskoodlez]

I have filed a complaint with the BBB yesterday. Don't know what will come out of this.
Seems as they don't have any complaints left unresolved. Maybe they will come around.
All I ask is Mushkin replaces this memory with sticks that works with the AV8.
I don't really feel that price should be a factor in this.
If Diane had told this (a different) memory will work in your AV8, the cost will be $120.00 for a dual channel kit.
I wouild have purchased that memory and this problem would not ever have come to light.

I saw your post over at the mushkin forum... e-mail tom... he will get it taken care of for you.. :)

[bobyjo]

I did email Tom, he discussed this with Diane and George.
They have persuaded him that I am lying about calling Tech Support a couple of days after the memory was delivered to me.
So the complaint stands, I don't know where to go from here. NO ONE will buy this stuff for any reasonable price.
I have posted it on 4 forums.
People inquire about it and check the compatability of it and back out.
I don't blame them if there is a hint of a posibility that this memory would not work in thier system.

[Dippyskoodlez]

I did email Tom, he discussed this with Diane and George.
They have persuaded him that I am lying about calling Tech Support a couple of days after the memory was delivered to me.
So the complaint stands, I don't know where to go from here. NO ONE will buy this stuff for any reasonable price.
I have posted it on 4 forums.
People inquire about it and check the compatability of it and back out.
I don't blame them if there is a hint of a posibility that this memory would not work in thier system.

if its been so long.. I'm assuming you have a phone bill.. right? try looking it up? ;)

[bobyjo]

When I pay our phone bill, I throw away the bill that contains a list of all calls made. I have ordered a copy of our bill during the period of time that the calls were made. This way I can prove that I called, I don't really think that will make any difference to Diane and George. But at least I will have the proof I called. Thank You BJ

[Dippyskoodlez]

When I pay our phone bill, I throw away the bill that contains a list of all calls made. I have ordered a copy of our bill during the period of time that the calls were made. This way I can prove that I called, I don't really think that will make any difference to Diane and George. But at least I will have the proof I called. Thank You BJ

If not proving them 100% incorrect, you dont think will help, you'd sure make one bad lawyer then. :p

[bobyjo]

I received an email from Tom, stating "return the memory to Mushkin and pay the $39.50 difference. Then they will send the TCC5 chip sticks. This is fair, this is the difference between the Blue and Black sticks.

[Megatron]

In today's prices, but when u bought ur memory it was probably more expensive (more expensive than the set you are recieving?) in this case you are still getting a raw deal.

I remember buying a 9700pro and after 2 years I took some ram sinks off it to upgrade to a 9800pro, it just killed it and wouldnt run 3dmark2k1 stable. I returned it and got my £270 odd that I paid not the £50 it was probably worth then.

[intel igent]

reasons like this i dont stray from the big players. ;)

not only do i want a good product but i also want good service afterwards. :)

i can honestly say the thoughts i had about purchasing some redlines have vanished. :mad:

no mushkin for me :cool:

[Dippyskoodlez]

reasons like this i dont stray from the big players. ;)

not only do i want a good product but i also want good service afterwards. :)

i can honestly say the thoughts i had about purchasing some redlines have vanished. :mad:

no mushkin for me :cool:

my mushkin is perfectly.. fine.. RMA'd in notime.. :)

[bobyjo]

I am happy with the deal they offered. Today's prices Blue as a -$ and the Black Extreme +$ it is a difference of $39.50. I am willing to pay thie for TCC5 chips on the sticks. I am getting a better memory and is compatable with several boards. Where as the Hynix chips on the Blue is directly oposite. Good deal for me. IMO:

[bobyjo]

Now I feel sorta ripped off again.
I had placed my upgrade order already when a large company from some other country ordered a huge order of TCCD memory.
They sold 100% of thier stock to them and placed my order on backorder.
They are telling me that a shipment should be received probably Monday 10/10/05.
The wifes system is running with Corsair memory in it, but I really wanted to get the proper memory installed asap.
I have no choice but to wait till next week.

[Dippyskoodlez]

Now I feel sorta ripped off again.
I had placed my upgrade order already when a large company from some other country ordered a huge order of TCCD memory.
They sold 100% of thier stock to them and placed my order on backorder.
They are telling me that a shipment should be received probably Monday 10/10/05.
The wifes system is running with Corsair memory in it, but I really wanted to get the proper memory installed asap.
I have no choice but to wait till next week.


tccd isnt "publicly" available to these guys.. samsung has a contract with corsair to make TCCD... not for anyone else, so availability for TCCD has become scarce..

They have their ways of buying it, and probably from samsung, but samsung probably doesn't want to make a ton of sdr, as most memory manf's are trying to scale up DDRII, and GDDR rather than reg ddr...

[bobyjo]

I was reading an article a few weeks ago.
This article stated that TCCD was back in full production.
The demand is so great, the availability is much better now than a few months ago.
I wish I could find the article, I just do not remember where it was.

[Dippyskoodlez]

I was reading an article a few weeks ago.
This article stated that TCCD was back in full production.
The demand is so great, the availability is much better now than a few months ago.
I wish I could find the article, I just do not remember where it was.

interesting..

the impression ive had from reps recently was tccd and BH was being a pain in the butt to get in large amounts of decent yields...

[bobyjo]

I was under that impression also, probably because something I had heard a few months ago.
Now these chips are in full production, I don't know if there has been a different mfg process or what. I know Patriot and Mushkin are using BrainPower PCB's.
I can tell you that everyone is carrying TCCD chips on some model of thier sticks.
Most everyone has them priced a little high, due to the demand of them.
The Patriot memory company is selling thiers below $160 for a 1gb kit.
Mushkin is selling thiers for $180, OCZ and Corsair are in the $200 range.
Patriot has thier DDR600 for sale on the Egg for $180.
They may have started selling like the big guys do.
When I ordered my XBLK sticks they were advertising that PC3200 was 2,2,2,5,1T & PC4400 was 3,4,4,8,1T but the same sticks.
As of Monday this week, they have them seperated on the Egg $160-$180,
Still not a bad deal.

[bobyjo]

Diane sent an email with a tracking #, they shipped the TCC5 memory yesterday. Delivery is scheduled Monday. YEA

[bobyjo]

The memory was delivered Monday morning.
I have it installed, have tried every conceivable timing arrangement and voltage.
This memory will not run at 1T.
Diane told me the memory would be compatable with the Patriot memory I have in my system.
This Patriot will run 2,2,2,5,1T 24x7 never a problem.
I have the Mushkin running at 2,2,2,5,2T.
I called Mushkin Tech guys and got a runaround, then the guy just left me hanging on the phone.
I was talking to no one. I don't like this at all.
All I wanted to know was there something I have not done that would allow this memory to run at 1T.

[Dippyskoodlez]

The memory was delivered Monday morning.
I have it installed, have tried every conceivable timing arrangement and voltage.
This memory will not run at 1T.
Diane told me the memory would be compatable with the Patriot memory I have in my system.
This Patriot will run 2,2,2,5,1T 24x7 never a problem.
I have the Mushkin running at 2,2,2,5,2T.
I called Mushkin Tech guys and got a runaround, then the guy just left me hanging on the phone.
I was talking to no one. I don't like this at all.
All I wanted to know was there something I have not done that would allow this memory to run at 1T.

what size sticks? test the ram seperately and if it runs 1t, then your ram is fine.

Its most likely your CPU limiting you to 2t, not the ram, unless it wont run 1T using just that stick.

Please give up more specific info rather than "the mushkin stick" in you post, as I dont have time to search through the 4 pages to see what size stick >_>

[bobyjo]

Patriot XBL runs at 1T without a problem. I don't know why the Mushkin refuses to run at
1T. I tried one stick at a time, no 1T that way either. I suppose the wife will have to be satisfied with the setting of 2T, she never complains as long as the system keeps running stable. As long as never a problem, she is very happy. I think I will just leave it this way.

[DanishDevil]

Bottom line: Buy OCZ!!! :P

Sry to hear about your problem. I got 2 sticks of OCZ Gold BH5 (1GB Kit) and the sticks started causing errors in MemTest at 212MHz 2-2-2-5. I told OCZ, and they sent me a BRAND NEW KIT in A WEEK!!! I had to pay to ship it out to them ($9). These sticks work GREAT! I will never buy from anyone but OCZ again.

GL with ur Mushkin problem!
Danish

[Dippyskoodlez]

Patriot XBL runs at 1T without a problem. I don't know why the Mushkin refuses to run at
1T. I tried one stick at a time, no 1T that way either. I suppose the wife will have to be satisfied with the setting of 2T, she never complains as long as the system keeps running stable. As long as never a problem, she is very happy. I think I will just leave it this way.

your sig says 2x 512... if your running 3x 512, or 4x512 :eek: you arent going to get 1t on an a64.

[bobyjo]

I'm sorry. We have two systems with AV8 boards.
I have the Patriot in mine and the Mushkin in the wifes.

[DanishDevil]

your sig says 2x 512... if your running 3x 512, or 4x512 :eek: you arent going to get 1t on an a64.

You most likely will with a Revision E CPU (Venice/SanDiego). Earlier than that is pure luck. Also, if you're running 3x512, youk're an idiot because you won't get DC. :eek:

[bobyjo]

We have two of these AV8 systems.
Each of them has 2x512 sticks of memory.
Does this make you feel better?

[Megatron]

You most likely will with a Revision E CPU (Venice/SanDiego). Earlier than that is pure luck. Also, if you're running 3x512, youk're an idiot because you won't get DC. :eek:
I have 2 * 256Mb which will do 250 2226 1t in dual channel but I prefer to run 210 2226 2t with 2 * 512Mb + 1 * 256Mb. I only run 3 sticks cause my cpu cooler obstructs the 4th dimm slot. I am aware that Im not in dual channel but I am prepared to lose 2% performance for less disk access in applications like battlefield 1942. I always run a trimmed down os so I dont have any trouble with my available ram size.

[Dippyskoodlez]

I have 2 * 256Mb which will do 250 2226 1t in dual channel but I prefer to run 210 2226 2t with 2 * 512Mb + 1 * 256Mb. I only run 3 sticks cause my cpu cooler obstructs the 4th dimm slot. I am aware that Im not in dual channel but I am prepared to lose 2% performance for less disk access in applications like battlefield 1942. I always run a trimmed down os so I dont have any trouble with my available ram size.

yeah... in raw memory performance, dual channel is very nice, but in real performance, its extremely over rated.

Especially if your comparing 512mb ram Vs 1gb, its just a no brainer :D

[bobyjo]

I have 2 * 256Mb which will do 250 2226 1t in dual channel but I prefer to run 210 2226 2t with 2 * 512Mb + 1 * 256Mb. I only run 3 sticks cause my cpu cooler obstructs the 4th dimm slot. I am aware that Im not in dual channel but I am prepared to lose 2% performance for less disk access in applications like battlefield 1942. I always run a trimmed down os so I dont have any trouble with my available ram size.

Why in the world do you want to use 2x512's and 1x256 sticks?
The reduction in performance is so that you probably loose the benefits of the 256mb of memory.
I suggest if you want more than 1gb of memory.
You should get yourself 2x1gb sticks.
That way you can run at 1T and 400mhz also.

[Megatron]

You really sound like ur in love with dual channel. Go make a couple of benchmarks and tell me that Im missing something. I am also running 2t, shock horror.

I just upgraded most of my pc, I got a heatsink which is incompatable with running 4 dimms, I got a x800gt and I would have probably paid the differenece if the x800gto2 was available at the time. I have 4 dimms of DDR which are still apparently up there with the best for low timings ect. The fact that u can run a divider with 64-bit systems shouldnt be overlooked. DDR2 will make RAM upgrade essential the next upgrade I do most likely. Now tell me why I want to spend more money on upgrading non essential things and in the case of the ram for performance I wont probably notice and will devalue sharply when I go to sell it.

When they doubled the price of the top graphics cards out there I stopped trying to compete with people who can buy 2 at once and afford to have "accidents" which liquid nitrogen and voltmods, Ive come to value having a reliable pc more than running it to an early grave.

[bobyjo]

It is a proven fact that dual channel does add to the performance level of a system.
The 1T over 2T is also a proven fact it does add to the performance level of the system. Now I agree that either is not a gangbuster of an increase.
The simple fact is that you put together several of these small enhancements and you will outscore most everyone else in benchmarks and visual performance also.
You can take 2x1gb sticks of memory of the right latency and timings, they will run at 1T and the memory will run at 400 or whatever you have OC set to.
Now there is a big difference between 333 & 400 mhz in memory settings.
These are three settings that will give you at least a 10% increase over not having these at your disposal.
It all depends on how professional you are in your setup.
Most people that just say that won't make much difference anyway.
Winds up with a HA performing system.
Just don't know the difference.

However I do agree with you on graphics cards. Get yourself one great performing card. The X850 XTpe is just the card to do exactly this. Of course the 7800GT will also, I don't want to leave nVidia out.
You will outperform the dual 6600's and probably the dual 6800's. Most cannot afford dual 7800's so that is nothing to be concerned over.

[Dippyskoodlez]

It is a proven fact that dual channel does add to the performance level of a system.
The 1T over 2T is also a proven fact it does add to the performance level of the system. Now I agree that either is not a gangbuster of an increase.
The simple fact is that you put together several of these small enhancements and you will outscore most everyone else in benchmarks and visual performance also.

Ofcourse its a proven fact that it helps- why else would we be using it?

3fps.. :eek:

What a huge performance boost it is too.

1-2%? That 1-5% at most isnt even noticable..

It may matter to a benchmarker who's trying to get that extra 1s in superpi, but for 99% of people, its not vital and is in fact over rated..

I've won many matches in wolfenstein and fragged thousand of people in wolf/UT.

Guess what. I have always run either 3-3-3-10 2T, or 2.5-3-3-7 and haven't had dual channel at all using my athlon 64.. ;)

My FPS have always been "playable".. timings and dual channel is so hyped up these days, people freak out if you have a loose timing, or not working in dual channel.. :laugh:

Granted a good framerate is important, but theres also the requirement of skill that goes along with doing well in games.. :) I've always been atleast in the "good" category for most games, and ive always been very behind on system ram (512 for a good long time now) and video wise, way behind.. using a Ti4200 when it was 9700pro dominating, and recently an X700pro.

Its good to have all the goodies, but most people need to sit and ENJOY the goodies :D

[bobyjo]

Just to see how your system is performing.
Why don't you download this (new) benchmarking tool. (GunMetal Benchmarking Tool 2) This one benchs your cpu, memory and video card.
Looks as if the scenes are from Halo, I could be wrong but there are some that looks familiar from Halo.
There are two benchmarks in the program.
When you run each one, it saves the specs in a file for viewing.
I posted my results in OC'ing forum under ATI video cards.
Just so if you or anyone else would like to look at them.
I have no idea if my specs are good, bad, or what.
Due to the fact I have no data to compare to.
If you were to download this bench tool, then we could at least compare your data against mine.
Just for the fun of it.

[Zebbo]

Ofcourse its a proven fact that it helps- why else would we be using it?

3fps.. :eek:

What a huge performance boost it is too.

1-2%? That 1-5% at most isnt even noticable..


You see, there's people who likes to get every single percent of performance out of their systems. They need that extra 5% of performance if they are able to get it (you can count me in) :)

[Duonger]

bobyjo

do me a favor and call 800-569-1868 and ask for brian. he will walk you through the install and troubleshooting.

Duonger

[bobyjo]

The memory is already installed.
I have checked each stick one at a time.
With both sticks installed SPD @ 2,2,2,6 or timings or 2,2,2,5 will not run at 1T.
The wife is happy with the system as it is.
I see no farther discussion on this is necessary.
Her system is running a Winchester processor.
Mine is running a Venice, that may be a reason.

[Duonger]

ok i just want to make sure you are satisfied with your purchase.

As always, i will be around to assist.

Duonger

[bobyjo]

I would be happier if the memory would run at 1T.
It don't and there is nothing Mushkin will do to change this.
The memory I have is TCC5 on BrainPower PCB's and I was astonished that it would not run at 1T.
The Patriot XBLK runs at 2,2,2,5,1T and simply loves it in this AV8.
I installed the Patriot sticks and ran the 3DMark benchs, three of them. T
here was about 20%increase in performance between Corsair 2.5,3,3,8,2T and the Patiot 2,2,2,5,1T.
I was extactic with this increase in performance.
The Patriot is TCCD chips on BrainPower PCB's and I thought if I got some more memory with the basic same configerations.
The new memory would perform the same.
There is no increase in performance between the Corsair memory and the Mushkin memory.
I firmly believe this is the difference between the timings and 2T to 1T. 2,2,2,5,1T compared to 2,3,2,6,2T is not all that different.
So I may be looking at the wrong component in the performance arena.

[Dippyskoodlez]

I would be happier if the memory would run at 1T.
It don't and there is nothing Mushkin will do to change this.
The memory I have is TCC5 on BrainPower PCB's and I was astonished that it would not run at 1T.
The Patriot XBLK runs at 2,2,2,5,1T and simply loves it in this AV8.
I installed the Patriot sticks and ran the 3DMark benchs, three of them. T
here was about 20%increase in performance between Corsair 2.5,3,3,8,2T and the Patiot 2,2,2,5,1T.
I was extactic with this increase in performance.
The Patriot is TCCD chips on BrainPower PCB's and I thought if I got some more memory with the basic same configerations.
The new memory would perform the same.
There is no increase in performance between the Corsair memory and the Mushkin memory.
I firmly believe this is the difference between the timings and 2T to 1T. 2,2,2,5,1T compared to 2,3,2,6,2T is not all that different.
So I may be looking at the wrong component in the performance arena.

I'm assuming your NOT running the spd timings, so it may be a bios issue....

My dfi didnt like my adata, or a few other things, but other stuff ran perfectly fine, swapped bios's and it cleared it all up.

[bobyjo]

TCCD chips were the only memory I could find that really would run in my AV8.
I have some Samsung 2x256 sticks that are old, I have 2x512 sticks of Corsair that is about a year old, I have New Crucial 2x256mb sticks will not post in the AV8, The Samsung will run in either AV8 if I manually set everything in bios, Corsair will run if I set the command rate to 2T in either AV8, Crucial is a lost cause in my case.
The Patriot is a super performer in either AV8.
Mushkin will run at SPD if I set the command rate to 2T.
It does not matter what timings I set manually, just will start loading Win and reboot, unless set to 2T.

[bobyjo]

I would like to trade this Mushkin XP3200 Black Extreme Performance 1gb kit for the same in Patriot XBLK memory.