NVIDIA boss says "We're going to open a can of whoop-ass" on Intel :eek:

[BlueSohip]

Looks like Intel's plans to enter the graphics space in a big way with its Nehalem and Larrabee lines strike NVIDIA CEO Jen Hsun-Huang as being rather foolish -- in a conference call with analysts today, Huang said Intel's integrated graphics offerings were "a joke," and that even a tenfold increase in performance would put them behind NVIDIA's current products. Huang didn't stop there, saying that NVIDIA was "going to open a can of whoop-ass," and that while Intel's graphics chips were fine for running Office, they would never cut it for gamers and other demanding users. Huang kept going, responding to questions about all those driver-related Vista crashes by saying that NVIDIA had to support new games weekly while Intel's chips aren't ever put to the test. Actually, that's toning it down a bit -- what Huang actually said was "You already have the right machine to run Excel. You bought it four years ago... How much faster can you render the blue screen of death?" Yeah, them's fightin' words -- you going to sit there and take it, Intel? :D

Source: http://www.dailytech.com/NVIDIA%20CEO%20Were%20Going%20to%20Open%20a%20Can% 20of%20Whoop%20Ass/article11448.htm

[Megasty]

:roll::roll::roll::roll:

Mr. Huang, you have just made my day. I like the way he's just ready to eat Intel for breakfast. Those words was spoken like a true gamer.

[a111087]

Pfff... let the reviews do the work

[das müffin mann]

that just made me LOLFR, thanks dude that made my night

[xmountainxlionx]

quote"You already have the right machine to run Excel. You bought it four years ago... How much faster can you render the blue screen of death?"/quote

[panchoman]

:roll::roll::roll::roll:

Mr. Huang, you have just made my day. I like the way he's just ready to eat Intel for breakfast. Those words was spoken like a true gamer.

couldn't have said it better myself, looks like nvidia's ready to really own intel.

[ShadowFold]

I dont see them cranking out 45nm Quad-Core CPU's and good motherboard chipsets. Also, wasn't Larrabee not gonna be a gamer card anyway??

PS. im not defending intel I just dis-like like nvidia more

[imperialreign]

glad someone has the balls (and financial pocket) to put Intel in their place :laugh:

[magibeg]

glad someone has the balls (and financial pocket) to put Intel in their place :laugh:

They have the mouth anyway. Realistically if intel was focused enough they might be able to take a good bite of the high end pie if they really drive towards GPU's.

[wolf2009]

LOL at that blue screen of death line . Who ever wrote that speech for him is a very funny guy .

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

nvidia doesnt seem to realise its who has the biggest wallet gets the pie ...

[paybackdaman]

Hmmm...i am not looking forward to having to choose between three companies...even bigger flame wars. hooray.:shadedshu

[erocker]

The more companies the more competition = better for all of us. Don't base reality off of "flame-wars" on forums. They aren't important, I choose to ignore them, well at least untill people start personally attacking each other, then I'm happy to punish them.:)

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

i hope intel comes and pwns ... at the second try though

[Kreij]

If Intel puts a large amount of their almost unlimited resources toward discreet graphic solutions, there will be a new sheriff in town.

[a111087]

Hmmm...i am not looking forward to having to choose between three companies...even bigger flame wars. hooray.:shadedshu

but that is a better competition, thats supposed to be good for us

[ShadowFold]

Hmmm...i am not looking forward to having to choose between three companies...even bigger flame wars. hooray.:shadedshu

I cant see Intel making high end gamer cards. I just cant.

[btarunr]

If Intel puts a large amount of their almost unlimited resources toward discreet graphic solutions, there will be a new sheriff in town.

The opposite is possible too....of NVidia putting in their resources towards making a CPU.....let them get a x86 license first :shadedshu

[erocker]

let them get a x86 license first :shadedshu

I don't see that happening in the forseable future.;) Personally though I would love it! If anyone is going to give AMD and Intel a run for it's money right now (besides VIA) it's going to be IBM.

[Scrizz]

that's a nice entrance there, BlueSohip.
welcome?

[ShadowFold]

I don't see that happening in the forseable future. If anyone is going to give AMD and Intel a run for it's money right now (besides VIA) it's going to be IBM.

VIA?? :wtf: yea in low end stuff but I dont think they will make gamer grade proc's anytime soon.

[erocker]

VIA?? :wtf: yea in low end stuff but I dont think they will make gamer grade proc's anytime soon.

Yes, I agree.:rolleyes: The DO have a X86 license though.

[btarunr]

"IBM? IBM....they're history....they're 1960's...they're a bloated enemy in a crumbling castle" - Steve Jobs in Pirates of Silicon Valley

IBM's big time CPU dreams ended the day Microsoft decided its operating systems wouldn't support PPC any more. VIA now realises the importance of holding a x86 license and isn't willing to give it away unless for a really huge price. So unless NVidia meet the demands of VIA, they don't get a x86 license. While it's non-transferable, the company holding the license won't default if another company holds it as a subordinate company (like VIA holds Centaur and Cyrix) acquiring VIA is not going to be anything close to buying out Ageia or ULi for NV.

[erocker]

"IBM? IBM....they're history....they're 1960's...they're a bloated enemy in a crumbling castle" - Steve Jobs in Pirates of Silicon Valley

IBM's CPU dreams ended the day Microsoft decided its operating systems wouldn't support PPC any more. VIA now realises the importance of holding a x86 license and isn't willing to give it away unless for a really huge price. So unless NVidia meet the demands of VIA, they don't get a x86 license. While it's non-transferable, the company holding the license won't default if another company holds it as a subordinate company (like VIA holds Centaur and Cyrix)

Totally agree! Good info:toast: Though, the Steve Jobs quote is a little dated now.;) I actually was referring to IBM if they somehow bought out AMD and was able to keep the license. Believe me, I hate getting involved in the semantics of corporations. I'm just a pawn consumer that likes fast stuff.;)

[DrPepper]

Believe me, I hate getting involved in the semantics of corporations. I'm just a pawn consumer that likes fast stuff.;)

Agreed if they say its fast buy it. :D I hate not being ignorant anymore :rolleyes:

[BlueSohip]

that's a nice entrance there, BlueSohip.
welcome?

Thank you :toast:

[Megasty]

If its fast & it works then I'm game for it. I still haven't stop laughing evertime I read that quote. Talk is just too cheap in the end. I want to see a big fat, power slurping card come out of Intel's tank more than anything. That will definitely put an end to Nvidia & AMD making new cards that's hardly faster than prior versions.

[Triprift]

Weel see when the Nehalem is released good funny post :toast:

[EastCoasthandle]

I honestly don't believe the real issue is about Intel's discrete GPU solution. It's the fact that both AMD and Intel can produce CPU, GPU and Chipsets is the main problem for Nvidia. How long will it be we see both GPU and CPU in one package? With AMD's Fusion and Intel's Nehalem looming over the horizon this doesn't leave any wiggling room for Nvidia. This is what I believe all the "remarks" are about IMO. This has Nvidia worried and this could shut them out of the chipset market, for starters.

When you have time, read this PDF (http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/11/116466/10K_Apr08.pdf) (page 13 and 14). Also look at page 50 regarding their R&D, this really tells the story straight from them. They are taking this very serious but ultimately there is no real solution at this time (from what I can see) .

News has it that Nvidia is attempting to pair up with VIA as they own a x86 license. From the look of things Via’s Isaiah may compete with ATOM. However, at 45nm, measuring around 25mm² (vs Via's 65nm) in the handheld devices, etc market segment may not fair well.

[DarkMatter]

About Nvidia and Via, and all the x86 license thing. It seems that Nvidia and Via are trying to bypass it. Here's something interesting:

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6774&Itemid=1

I think this is a first step in a more ambitious project. I don't know if that would even work (in the sense of being competitive and not only a cheap alternative), but I guess we are going to see it soon.

I wonder if they can apply that setup for gaming rigs or more general use ones. I have always thought that for pure gaming PC CPUs are overkill. In games you don't need so much brute power, but instead you need good mangement of other resources. Look at consoles. Cell and Xenos are crap compared to current CPUs. That VIA+Nvidia solution plus a dedicated GPU could work well for gaming if well implemented, and as Huang said anything can do office tasks. On the other hand I don't think they can make that setup do all the work that current CPUs can do as fast and efficiently. Actually maybe they can match CPUs of today, but not the ones that will come in the near future, they would be at least one step behind IMO. Only time will tell. Me, I would like to see 3 players in the high-end CPU and GPU markets.

P.D. I love how they are fighting Intel. We need someone fighting them besides AMD, since AMD is not in a good position right now. I would love to see AMD and Nvidia fighting Intel as they used to do in the past, though, rather than each one on their own.

[ShadowFold]

Are x64 licenses cheap or something? Why are they only trying to get a x86?

[Triprift]

We do need some added competition in the gpu department

At the moment amd aint in good shape and intel entering the arena again Hopefully they
have leant there lessons from the disasterous i740 days.

Will be interesting anyways.

[Nitro-Max]

This just made my morning :laugh:

[DarkMatter]

Are x64 licenses cheap or something? Why are they only trying to get a x86?

x64 is an extension of x86 developed by AMD to use with 64bit processors. Indeed its real name is x86-64. Every PC CPU is x86, nd ultimately that's the big problem. The whole industry depends on that architecture, that is ultimately owned by Intel.

Not only that but the architecture is really old. It would be ideal if they could change the whole architecture, indeed many experts think we could get a lot better performance from a new architecture, but that would mean to change everything, and when I say everything, is everything: from hardware to OS and BIOS, drivers for every single device etc. And knowing how they take their time to make a shift to a new OS that is based on the same architecture, don't try to think what would happen if they had to change it completely...

[KainXS]

it looks like that guy is making checks he can't cash

[Darknova]

nvidia is running scared lol. No one has ANY idea how Larabee is going to perform, it is a completely new idea with no basis for comparison, it is not like Intels discrete graphics solutions, it's not like nvidias GPUs, it's not like AMD's GPUs....it's completely different.

They may be witty, but they can't hope to prepare for something they can't fathom yet.

Personally, I hope Larabee makes a huge hit when it's released, a new way of thinking in the market will force both AMD, and nvidia to change the way they perceive current graphics technology, then we will see a real leap forward in tech, instead of being stuck in this "upgrade a bit = new generation" era.

[btarunr]

Intel should take offense in those remarks and "No more technical collaboration with NVidia for designing Nforce for Nehalem" :nutkick: NVidia's free-fall begins at that point.

[DarkMatter]

it looks like that guy is making checks he can't cash

NVidia's free-fall begins at that point.


That was my first impression. I thought: "This guy is commiting suicide". But it's wiser to judge people by their actions rather than by their words, and I have the feeling this guy isn't one of those who talk more than what they can do. I don't see him as a person who gives missteps. Look how he has made Nvidia company of the year under his "dictatorial" command. You can say whatever you want about Nvidia and the guy, except they are stupids. I can't think of any better bussinessman in the IT industry right now. Until now he has so far proved to be a winner. He has a serious chance to fight Intel for some reasons:

1- Industry is moving towards cheaper PCs:

Asus Eee is a great success and there are coming more from other companies. And don't forget that 97% of CPU market is under $200, AMD is fighting there and moving towards that direction.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/04/04/97_of_cpu_market_consists_of_sub_200_processors_/

Nvidia and Via can't compete in the high-end CPU market, but sub $200 class performance is reachable, they can compete there.

2- Most of the high-end CPU market is moved by gamers. Nvidia and AMD (Ati) have a lot more to say there than Intel. I don't know you, but if any of those two, can make a platform with cheap -yet very capable for gaming- processors and powerful GPUs with strong FPU capabilities, I rather prefer that than where Intel is trying to go. I have always prefered a GPU upgrade, than a CPU/chipset upgrade, so if they manage to do a platform where the power of the entire rig relies on a single and ealily upgradeable part, I'm bought.

Intel knows that anyway, and they are entering that market. But IMO they are not doing it well. I'm a talking about Nehalem and Larrabee. Atom is right, a wonderful piece of hardware, but it has lot of competition which is as good or better anyway. Nehalem and Larabee, both involve CPU architectures doing GPU work and I don't see them doing it well. I mean in a way so that they can compete in the high-end market. I could be wrong, but GPU was created for a reason, I don't see CPU ("CPU like") rendering coming back in a big way. Only time will tell, of course, so we'll see.

Fusion is another thing, it doesn't involve CPU rendering, but I have my reservetions about bundling CPU and GPU together too, since any upgrade in one department would involve a total upgrade. Anyway it's going to be succesful in the mainstream market, I'm sure of that. But I don't like it.

All in all, the market is moving towards cheaper PCs, and there, all companies have a chance to fight, something impossible in the high-end CPU and chipset markets. We'll see...

[largon]

DarkMatter,
Why would you say "nV can't compete in high-end CPU market but in sub $200 they can"?

Atm, I see it's exactly the other way around. Intel dominates at low-end, discrete GPUs at high-end. But when Nehalem/Fusion with the iGPUs hits the mainstream market they will basically kill the market of low-end discrete GPUs and that's bad for nVIDIA as that's where they get their share of dough. High-end will be totally discrete GPU business but that too will end when Larrabee and it's future derivates emerge and start the revolution. That's unless non-Intel discrete GPUs will adopt the new, CPU-like architecture compatible with Larrabee. It's a fact that nVIDIA faces the classical do-or-die situation within the next few years...

Btw, Nehalem is just like Fusion for what comes to the graphics processing - except maybe that on Nehalem the GPU is integrated on-die, Fusion has a daughter-die.

[jbunch07]

damn...Nvidia has some balls:laugh:

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

all i can say is if they not building a CPU all of this chat is in vain

[candle_86]

im not worried about intel shutting anyone out, they have no experince building a fully fledged graphics core. It takes people that have been doing this already to get in the game, this isnt 1997, not every engineer can jump from CPU to GPU and win round 1 these days.

[jbunch07]

im not worried about intel shutting anyone out, they have no experince building a fully fledged graphics core. It takes people that have been doing this already to get in the game, this isnt 1997, not every engineer can jump from CPU to GPU and win round 1 these days.

much agreed intel just doesn't have the seniority in the graphics world that nvidia or ati have

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

all of this is for naught unless nvidia is making a CPU, otherwise nvidia STFU!

[largon]

im not worried about intel shutting anyone out, they have no experince building a fully fledged graphics core. It takes people that have been doing this already to get in the game, this isnt 1997, not every engineer can jump from CPU to GPU and win round 1 these days.True, except that what Intel is building is not a conventional graphics core.
Larrabee is something totally different from what GPUs are today.

[candle_86]

yea but games are built for the modern GPU. Its suicide even for intel to say, we will only support games that work on what we build. Its 3dfx all over again if they go that route

[DarkMatter]

DarkMatter,
Why would you say "nV can't compete in high-end CPU market but in sub $200 they can"?

Atm, I see it's exactly the other way around. Intel dominates at low-end, discrete GPUs at high-end. But when Nehalem/Fusion with the iGPUs hits the mainstream market they will basically kill the market of low-end discrete GPUs and that's bad for nVIDIA as that's where they get their share of dough. High-end will be totally discrete GPU business but that too will end when Larrabee and it's future derivates emerge and start the revolution. That's unless non-Intel discrete GPUs will adopt the new, CPU-like architecture compatible with Larrabee. It's a fact that nVIDIA faces the classical do-or-die situation within the next few years...

Btw, Nehalem is just like Fusion for what comes to the graphics processing - except maybe that on Nehalem the GPU is integrated on-die, Fusion has a daughter-die.

Well, I think that Nvidia can't make a high-end CPU comparable to Intel CPU, basically because they can't get x86 license, nor it can team up with Via to make one. Not only that but it has taken years to reach there, as a proof you have AMD not being able to catch up and it's been always there. They can do a low performing CPU and pair it up with an Stream Processor (GPGPU) for that tasks that require horsepower. The trend of power requirement is more Floating-Point performance and GPGPUs are better than todays CPUs in that.

To the same extent Intel can't do high-end GPUs comparable to Nvidia or Ati ones (IMO). So with Intel you have fast CPU and slow GPU, and with Nvidia/Via or AMD you have slow CPU and fast GPU with some GPGPU capabilities, that are showing more and more they are viable to do most tasks.
Now which one do you think has more chances of becoming more popular between gamers? And I say between gamers because as I said above, the mainstream market is moving towards cheap PC ala Asus Eee, and that market isn't dominated by Intel and others like Via, Amd and others have bigger chances to compete.
Gamers are almost the only customers that buy $1000 PCs today and the second bigger group when it comes to buying hardware, after the so called mainstream people who want cheap PCs for web browsing etc. In the mainstream group Intel is in risk of losing all of the market share it owns now. Nvidia isn't there, they move on the high-end, and yes compared to Intel IGP, any new discrete card is high-end in comparison. Intel it's in risk of losing the high-end market in the near future too, because the CPU power we have today is more than enough for gaming. Games do need more power, but this requirement is basically for floating-point power, something that it happens that GPUs do better. That makes them think about how are they going to sell CPUs in the future? I mean, if they can't release faster CPUs (as they are today) because no one is going to pay that much for a CPU that it's not required, how are they going to sell them? Answer, giving the CPU more importance in other areas different to general computing (Nehalem) or entering other areas (Larrabee).

And it's here where I think that Nvidia and Ati (and so AMD) are well ahead of Intel. They have demostrated that their GPGPUs can do many tasks faster than CPUs, they are taking off some CPU market share indeed. On the other hand Intel is failing bad on its GPU segment, and I personally I don't see them doing well (in comparison with where GPUs will be then) with Nehalem and Larrabee, but that's my opinion anyway. I suppose it all depends on the faith you put on Intel making a good GPU. It's here where I see the problem. AFAIK Intel is not doing a GPU as it is today, it will be based on vectorial CPU-like units. I doubt and many experts too BTW (including some Intel insiders) that such a chip won't be able to perform as well as a comparable (in silicon, price, etc) standard GPU in graphics tasks. At least as they are today, there's a reason, a very deep and obvious reason why Intel is pushing so hard for full Real time Ray-Tracing rendering, while its benfits are not as big as its flaws nowadays. But this is another topic.

So to resume (it is the time! :p), it depends a lot on how you see the future of computers. What I think is that there's going to be like this:

- More than 80% of people will use sub $300 or even cheaper PCs, that by then will be as fast as today's high-end, but low-end enough to be reachable technically and economically to other players such as Via.

- Other 20% will be power users, split into gamers (the most) and those with media streaming requirements. Both will (or could) benefit more from the GPGPU aproach, but it depends on how you look at it.

With the aproach that I described 100% of people could use the sub $300 PC and power users would only have to plug in one or many GPUs in order to get the power they need. That's how I see the future and why I think that AMD and Nvidia are on a better place than Intel. Strategically of course, Intel with their ample pockets could do anything, but IMO they are going to loose market share no matter what.

Sorry for this post guys. It's hard to explain something like that in a short message. :o

[DarkMatter]

True, except that what Intel is building is not a conventional graphics core.
Larrabee is something totally different from what GPUs are today.

And that's the reason I think they will fail! There's a reason why GPUs are like they are after so many years and changes. IMO Ati and Nvidia know better than Intel how graphics have to be done. That's only my opinion anyway. And sort of the one of Tim Sweeney and Carmack, I think, but whatever...

[Triprift]

I hope they no what there doing intel that i740 thingy was a complete shamozzle.

[candle_86]

now heres the funny part if you take a GPU and add a translation buffer to convert x86 commands into something the GPU can use and vice versa the modern 600mhz GPU would cruch a core2.

[jbunch07]

now heres the funny part if you take a GPU and add a translation buffer to convert x86 commands into something the GPU can use and vice versa the modern 600mhz GPU would cruch a core2.

you really think so? :confused:

[freaksavior]

quote"You already have the right machine to run Excel. You bought it four years ago... How much faster can you render the blue screen of death?"/quote

:roll: so true

[candle_86]

you really think so? :confused:

yes i do, it takes an entire cluster to render the 8800GTX, a cluster of AMD Opteron's in sun systems. Also we know what they do with FOH. Remember GPU's deal with a more complex work load than say yahoo messange + firefox open

[jbunch07]

yes i do, it takes an entire cluster to render the 8800GTX, a cluster of AMD Opteron's in sun systems. Also we know what they do with FOH. Remember GPU's deal with a more complex work load than say yahoo messange + firefox open

this is true.
i wonder why they don't already do this with cpus?
seems like a good idea to me

[candle_86]

x86 license lol

[jbunch07]

ahhh forgot about that little detail

[SUPERREDDEVIL]

Looks like Intel's plans to enter the graphics space in a big way with its Nehalem and Larrabee lines strike NVIDIA CEO Jen Hsun-Huang as being rather foolish -- in a conference call with analysts today, Huang said Intel's integrated graphics offerings were "a joke," and that even a tenfold increase in performance would put them ........

Source: http://www.dailytech.com/NVIDIA%20CEO%20Were%20Going%20to%20Open%20a%20Can% 20of%20Whoop%20Ass/article11448.htm


intel GRAPHICS chips, sucks a LOT
LONG LIFE TO NVIDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:rockout ::rockout:

[largon]

DarkMatter,
You know, I just realized when I asked why would you say "nV can't compete in high-end CPU market but in sub $200 they can"? For some reason I was thinking you said "nV can't compete in high-end GPU market but in sub $200 they can". So forget everything I said about that... :D

[AddSub]

Hilarious! This might be just a cultural/language barrier thing, where the guy thinks he sounds cool, when in fact he sounds like a 13 year old skater kid, or it could be effects of a cocaine rush. :D

[DrPepper]

intel GRAPHICS chips, sucks a LOT
LONG LIFE TO NVIDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:rockout ::rockout:

I think intel have an ace up there sleeve with this one :confused: If this has been in development for a while and hasn't been cancelled it must mean it could be a killer card. It might not be designed for high end games but maybe for the casual gamer etc just my thoughts though ;)

[EastCoasthandle]

Hilarious! This might be just a cultural/language barrier thing, where the guy thinks he sounds cool, when in fact he sounds like a 13 year old skater kid, or it could be effects of a cocaine rush. :D

I really don't see why his statement is witty. Besides, I recall AMD doing something similar although not as brazen. Then one day (while AMD CPUs were higher then they ever been in the past) a little laptop CPU called Pentium M was hitting the net with leaked benchmarks and people were amazed at how well it performed at such a low clock rate. Many speculated that this will be the turning point for Intel others just over shadowed it as a return to PIIIs as K10 was going to revolutionize the world. Fan boy camps were well entrenched back then for AMD. They downplayed the Pentium M and convinced many that "the cake was a lie" sort of speaking. That Intel would never leave Netburst and would always place MHz over actual performance, etc. We know how that turned out, don't we? :laugh::slap:

I see the same thing happening with Nvidia and Intel now. But I'll wait and see what the leaked benchmarks reveal first, no different then the leaked benchmarks of the Pentium M. Even though the circumstances between what they already knew about Pentium and and Larrabee are different. What I am getting at is the fact we have no idea of how Intel is going about this and we should wait for early benchmarks if Larrabee is as good as some claim it to be. If it is, we should see some leaked benchmarks soon IMO.

[largon]

now heres the funny part if you take a GPU and add a translation buffer to convert x86 commands into something the GPU can use and vice versa the modern 600mhz GPU would cruch a core2.Sorry that's not possible.
Thus the comparison is totally and utterly useless.
:rolleyes:

GPUs are only good for graphics processing and some limited number of specific calculations of simple nature such as FAH, physics, etc. it takes an entire cluster to render the 8800GTX, a cluster of AMD Opteron's in sun systems. Also we know what they do with FOH. Remember GPU's deal with a more complex work load than say yahoo messange + firefox openYou'd think graphics is more complex than Yahoo messanger or Firefox but you'd be wrong... You have it backwards.

[candle_86]

do i now, please explain?

GPU's are 100 times more complex than a CPU. They deal with sevral tasks at once from floating point to interger math. Also there hasnt been an x86 CPU since the PEntium MMX, the Pentium Pro and K6 are RISC with an x86 translation to convert back in forth, so yes it is possible, very possible

[EastCoasthandle]

Looks like his remark(s) didn't win him anything in the stock market. As a matter of fact it looks like it had the opposite effect.
Source (http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=NVDA#chart3:symbol=nvda;range=5d;chartty pe=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;sour ce=undefined)
Just yesterday they were at 20.421.

[largon]

GPU's are 100 times more complex than a CPUYou're confusing hardware complexity with code complexity. CPUs are relatively simple but they deal in a more wide selection of more complex instructions. GPUs are complex but only in a sense of parallelism because graphical instructions are very simple but there's a huge array of parallel data. GPUs don't deal in dependancies, there's little variation in instruction types or lenght in graphics calculations. Also there hasnt been an x86 CPU since the PEntium MMX, the Pentium Pro and K6 are RISC with an x86 translation to convert back in forth, so yes it is possible, very possibleUh, yes, modern CPUs are superscalar. But that has nothing to with translating X86 to massively parallel but simple scalar math which is what GPUs are only capable of digesting.

[Steevo]

"IBM? IBM....they're history....they're 1960's...they're a bloated enemy in a crumbling castle" - Steve Jobs in Pirates of Silicon Valley

IBM's big time CPU dreams ended the day Microsoft decided its operating systems wouldn't support PPC any more. VIA now realises the importance of holding a x86 license and isn't willing to give it away unless for a really huge price. So unless NVidia meet the demands of VIA, they don't get a x86 license. While it's non-transferable, the company holding the license won't default if another company holds it as a subordinate company (like VIA holds Centaur and Cyrix) acquiring VIA is not going to be anything close to buying out Ageia or ULi for NV.

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/i/


Welcome to the 70's, 80's, 90's, and today. The amount of servers/hardware/systems sold has nothing to do with anything for IBM, they have the worlds most reliable, secure, fast, etc....... server systems out.


You might whine and cry about a $299 licanse for Vista or about $5000 for a Server licanse, but these boxes with just the OS cost $40-50K for a small one. When MS is making a big deal about Virtual systems for server 08 it itsn't for your box or a small system, it is for one of these running 4 OS's, 64 Processors, 128Gb of RAM and four daughter boxes connected through Fiber and a few TB of storage.

[DrPepper]

yes i do, it takes an entire cluster to render the 8800GTX, a cluster of AMD Opteron's in sun systems. Also we know what they do with FOH. Remember GPU's deal with a more complex work load than say yahoo messange + firefox open

I think they already use 8800's in the TESLA system nvidia have built (they say its a personal supercomputer) a bit like ATI's Firestream < sounds so freakin cool which are being used for general purpose computing. I know FAH use them.

[BlueSohip]

NVIDIA Promises Powerful sub-$45 Processing Platform Jointly with Via...

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=57554 :rolleyes:

[DarkMatter]

DarkMatter,
You know, I just realized when I asked why would you say "nV can't compete in high-end CPU market but in sub $200 they can"? For some reason I was thinking you said "nV can't compete in high-end GPU market but in sub $200 they can". So forget everything I said about that... :D

I know that you were not debating my arguments, but for further explanation, this is exactly what I was talking about Intel not dominating lower-end cheaper markets:

http://www.eeepcnews.de/2008/04/18/intel-atom-benchmarks-via-isaiah-vergleich

Traduction by google:

http://www.google.es/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eeepcnews.de%2F2008%2 F04%2F18%2Fintel-atom-benchmarks-via-isaiah-vergleich%2F&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=es&ie=UTF8

As you can see Intel could have an strong competitor there. It all comes down to support, and we know Intel has the edge there, but IMO there's a bigger chance there than on higher segments. More than what Amd is having in this moment, and in the near future unless they have some secret weapon...

EDIT: And regarding what I was saying about Nvidia+Via solution, look at how Isaiah crushes Atom in the Integer side of things. Imagine you have a GPU boasting big FP numbers...

[Morgoth]

go intel go, Unleash nehalem!