New Video Card

[Kraegos]

Hello all, I am new to this site and am hoping to find the answers to a few questions.

First off, I am building my first computer. I pieced one together from Dell about 9 years ago and it finally died a couple months ago. It was still fast right up until it wouldnt boot up anymore.

I started off with a new atx style case that came with a 500w power supply, added an Intel D915PGN Pentium 4 Socket 775 ATX motherboard, got a Pentium 4 640 3.2Ghz HT 2mb cache 800Mhz, Intel core 2 duo heatsink/fan, and have 4 gigs of ram on the way.

From what my research tells me, I should only need 1 stick of ram and the video card to be able to turn the computer on and enter the bios. If this is true, then the video card is next on the 'grocery' list.

I have been researching video cards until my head spins and cant really decide one way or the other, so I thought I would post here to get some opinions.

I am looking for a decently fast PCIe card with an HDMI output. I am trying to keep this build on a budget, so nothing extravagant. I have seen cards range from 30 bucks to over 900. I don't really have a brand preference. I am all about high performance at low cost. I just want something that will perform no matter what I throw at it.

Sorry for the long post.

[FR@NK]

8800GT or ATI 3780

You will be very much bottlenecked by that pentium 4 processor :(

BTW Welcome to techpowerup!!!!

[bigtye]

I am running a 9600GT which does all my gaming at 1680x1050 on COD4, COH and 2142 quite nicely (without everything maxed). What resolution do you game at? This will affect just how powerful a card you will need and therefore how much you will need to spend.

I personally argue that you should buy the most powerful GPU you can afford, as future games always place further stress on the system.

Tye

[JrRacinFan]

HD3650 (Make sure it has DDR3) or 2600XT (Possibly even a 2600Pro). Even at that though, you also have the choice of an HD3850 for not much more.

Question for everyone else: Do nVidia cards have the option for HDMI output with audio included guys?

[ShadowFold]

I can honestly say that a 8800GT is well worth the extra bucks over a 3800 series card.

[JrRacinFan]

Why such powerful card recommendations guys? He will be tremendously bottlenecked.

[ShadowFold]

He can upgrade the cpu.. Get a good card now and a nice dual core later :)

[JrRacinFan]

He can upgrade the cpu.. Get a good card now and a nice dual core later :)

I don't think so .....
http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d915pgn/sb/CS-026948.htm

[ShadowFold]

Oh :( That sucks

[Paulieg]

2900XT with a Thermalright cooler! I'm selling one ;). Seriously, consider it. Sure, you may get bottlenecked with that cpu to some extent, but you will have a much better gaming experience despite the bottleneck. I'd say at least a 2900XT, HD 3870, 8800GT or 9600GT. These cards will have enough power to grow with your system, when you do buy a faster cpu.

[ShadowFold]

2900XT with a Thermalright cooler! I'm selling one ;). Seriously, consider it. Sure, you may get bottlenecked with that cpu to some extent, but you will have a much better gaming experience despite the bottleneck. I'd say at least a 2900XT, HD 3870, 8800GT or 9600GT. These cards will have enough power to grow with your system, when you do buy a faster cpu.

And a 2900XT for 155$ is a pretty darn good deal considering it beats a 9600GT and HD 3850 in the same range.

[Paulieg]

I can honestly say that a 8800GT is well worth the extra bucks over a 3800 series card.

I'm on the fence with this. I've owned both of these cards. The 8800GT is faster than either the 3870 or 2900XT. However, ATI cards provide much better image quality...in my experience.

[Paulieg]

And a 2900XT for 155$ is a pretty darn good deal considering it beats a 9600GT and HD 3850 in the same range.

Not to mention it's clocked at 860/927 with a thermalright cooler. :D. Anyway, there are just a ton of excellent cards out right now b/t ATI and Nvidia. You really can't lose in the mid to mid-high range .

[hat]

He can upgrade the motherboard too. If he's anything like us he's going to be doing a lot of upgrading, so why get a weak card now, then get a new board to experiance the awesome power of C2D, then "oh shit, my video card sucks!!"

Get an 8800gt 512mb, or a 9600gt 512mb...

[Kraegos]

I didn't realize a 3.2Ghz processor was considered a bottleneck. lol. The laptop I am using right now only has a 1.73Ghz Pentium M with 512mb RAM and it is decently fast to me. Of course the old system was a P3 450.

I am not a high-end gamer, but I wouldn't mind playing WoW on my 52" tv when the wife and kids are gone. Other than that, I will probably end up with a 19-22" lcd and run whatever res I can with that. I'm no expert on this stuff, so you may have to use small words in your explanations. lol

Thanks for all the replies!

[Mussels]

I didn't realize a 3.2Ghz processor was considered a bottleneck. lol. The laptop I am using right now only has a 1.73Ghz Pentium M with 512mb RAM and it is decently fast to me. Of course the old system was a P3 450.

I am not a high-end gamer, but I wouldn't mind playing WoW on my 52" tv when the wife and kids are gone. Other than that, I will probably end up with a 19-22" lcd and run whatever res I can with that. I'm no expert on this stuff, so you may have to use small words in your explanations. lol

Thanks for all the replies!

its because its an old design. think of a pentium 4 as a 2 cylinder engine - even at 3,000 RPM (3GHz) its going to be very weak compared to a V8 at 2,000 RPM (2GHz)

Core 2 duo chips absolutely destroy the pentium 4 line, even at lower MHz values.

[Paulieg]

I didn't realize a 3.2Ghz processor was considered a bottleneck. lol. The laptop I am using right now only has a 1.73Ghz Pentium M with 512mb RAM and it is decently fast to me. Of course the old system was a P3 450.

I am not a high-end gamer, but I wouldn't mind playing WoW on my 52" tv when the wife and kids are gone. Other than that, I will probably end up with a 19-22" lcd and run whatever res I can with that. I'm no expert on this stuff, so you may have to use small words in your explanations. lol

Thanks for all the replies!

Welcome to tpu! You've come to the right place for answers, and most of us a fairly good at toning down the language for noobs. ;)

[Paulieg]

its because its an old design. think of a pentium 4 as a 2 cylinder engine - even at 3,000 RPM (3GHz) its going to be very weak compared to a V8 at 2,000 RPM (2GHz)

Core 2 duo chips absolutely destroy the pentium 4 line, even at lower MHz values.

Very good explanation. :)

[Kraegos]

Yeah the 2 cyl -- v8 explination makes total sense to me, as i am a more avid car guy than tech guy. I probably wont upgrade this particular computer much once I get it completed. I just wanted another solid desktop that would last as long as the old Dell. I'm actually still trying to ressurect it ...for sentimental reasons.

[erocker]

I think the 9600gt is a perfect candidate.:)

[Mussels]

9600Gt would probably be best. its lower power consumption helps out, and while its not a massive performance beast its definately cheap and great value for money. It can manage all todays games fine, when paired with a good CPU - so at least you'll be aware the CPU is whats holding you back, and not the video card.

[smig]

I can't give any advise till I know what you need the computer for.
If you used your old machine for 9 years I can only guess you'r not a gamer :p
why do you need an HDMI output ?


I have been researching video cards until my head spins and cant really decide one way or the
other
yea, we all sufer from the same problem :D

[Mussels]

the HDMI is because he mentioned WoW on a 52" HDTV.

So that you know, you can just buy DVI to HDMI adaptors - you dont need the video card to have it to start with. (i use one)

[JrRacinFan]

with audio tho mussels?

[Mussels]

with audio tho mussels?

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1610

yes. its still digital audio, although your soundcard will need to be able to output to SPDIF coax. (most onboards i've seen lately can do that)

[JrRacinFan]

Sweet, didnt know that!!

[Mussels]

the main thing is that it IS digital audio. its only 2.0 unless its pre-encoded or realtime (such as from my shiny auzentech :P)

Yes thats how HDMI works on PC no matter what, its only DVD movies and so on that work normally. at least this way, you get the encoding to go with it if you have a good soundcard :D

[smig]

sorry, didn't see the second post.

I think any of the 9xxx series will be good for you.
maybe even the low end G80 - the 8800GTS (with 320/640mb), but you cand find some better ones in the 9xxx series.
It can be a 9600GT or the 9600GSO. what you can find in the best price.

look here
http://en.expreview.com/2008/04/02/g80-vs-g92-hi-end-geforce-gfx-cards-round-up/?page=14

The 9600GSO is a renamed 8800GS

some of the 9600GT has many output options.

[Kraegos]

If you used your old machine for 9 years I can only guess you'r not a gamer :p

I was an avid gamer when that computer was new. That was back when multiplayer games were few and far between. In fact I had that computer about 2 years before Civilization 2 multiplayer gold edition came out. However I was the envy of everyone in the dorm when we played Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun over the network...man, those were the days. :) I would still be playing that game today but the external drive I had it backed-up on went to crap and I lost every game, mp3, picture of my kids, etc. It was only 2 or 3 years old. I will never buy another Seagate again!!! :mad:

I just got back into gaming with a buddy of mine and decided to build another desktop so my wife wouldn't complain that I used the laptop all the time. lol. That and the 13" screen is killing me!

[Focus182]

i have a singlecore sempron 3400+ at 1.8ghz and i have a 8600GTS and its great .. a bit bottlenecked but still .. maybe go for a 8800GS ? or a 3850 , i dont exactly know how powerfull that pc is but if its near my sempron then get a 8600GTS .. it maxes just about everygame at 1280x1024

~Focus

[Kraegos]

ok, so how about something along these lines?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=310049377466

Palit GeForce 9600GT 512MB

Graphics Processor Properties:
Video Adapter nVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT (p545)
BIOS Version 62.94.0D.00.03
GPU Code Name G94GT
PCI Device 10DE-0622 / 10DE-0545 (Rev A1)
Transistors 505 million
Process Technology 65 nm
Die Size 238 mm2
Bus Type PCI Express 1.0 x16 @ x16
Memory Size 512 MB
GPU Clock (Geometric Domain) 650 MHz (original: 650 MHz)
GPU Clock (Shader Domain) 1625 MHz (original: 1625 MHz)
RAMDAC Clock 400 MHz
Pixel Pipelines 16
TMU Per Pipeline 1
Unified Shaders 64 (v4.0)
DirectX Hardware Support DirectX v10
Pixel Fillrate 8000 MPixel/s
Texel Fillrate 16000 MTexel/s

Memory Bus Properties:
Bus Type GDDR3
Bus Width 256-bit
Real Clock 900 MHz (DDR) (original: 900 MHz)
Effective Clock 999 MHz
Bandwidth 31.2 GB/s

[Focus182]

looks good .. no need to go and buy a overclocked one tho .. you can do that yourself ;) its fairly easy but you gotta be carfull .. look up overclocking if u dont know how.

anyway palit are dependable

[Kraegos]

I can't give any advise till I know what you need the computer for.

Honestly, as busy as I have been lately, the only thing this comp will be used for is WoW, internet surfing, music, and some weekend movie watching. That's part of the reason I'm not overly concerned about the processor speed...at the moment.

[smig]

I guess you'r like me - read only the first post. LOL

read my second post - I think any of the 9xxx series will be good for you :)
benchmarks show better performance for the 9600GSO vs 9600GT.
the 9600GSO is a renamed 8800GS, and mostly you can find it cheaper then the 9600GT

[Hayder_Master]

take 8800gt 512

[Kraegos]

ok, so far we have:

9600gt
9600gso/8800gs
8800gt
8600gts

HD3650
HD3850
2900XT <--Paulieg :)
2600XT
2600Pro

Nine choices...wow, that really narrows it down. lol

So, where can I find a card cheaper than ebay? I really want to stay uner $150... or under $100 if at all possible (doubtful).

[JrRacinFan]

Scrap the choice of an 8600GTS, you can overclock an 8600GT and either match or surpass it. I still say an HD3650 w/DDR3, when overclocked its in between a 2600XT and a 2900Pro, at stock it performs a little better than 2600XT's.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102725

But then you could go an extra $30 tied up into an 8800GS:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150294
Pay attention, that has a free copy of CoD4.

[Kraegos]

That's not a bad deal on the 8800gs. COD4 plus a $30 rebate.

All purchases put on temporary (1 week) hault per the wife... :(

[Mussels]

That's not a bad deal on the 8800gs. COD4 plus a $30 rebate.

All purchases put on temporary (1 week) hault per the wife... :(

sell the wife?

[Irish_PXzyan]

sell the wife?

I will buy her :toast:

[Kraegos]

Ok, I'm thinking this is in the price/performance range I'm looking for...

Radeon HD 3650 512MB 128-bit GDDR3
725Mhz Core Clock
1600Mhz Mem Clock
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131088

That Sapphire JrRacinFan linked is a little cheaper, but doesn't list any specs. Looks to be basically the same card though.

Comments? Pros/Cons?

[Kraegos]

sell the wife?
I will buy her :toast:

You will have to take the kids too! We have twins...:nutkick:

[JrRacinFan]

You can sell the twins to me if yah want :p


Nice card! Kraegos, remember you have the ability to CrossfireX it later with a 38x0 card. Also, not too sure if I like the open ram without heatsinks or any type of cooling on it.

[Irish_PXzyan]

lol no thanks! I am actualy a twin myself..and I alone can be a right arse! let alone 2 of us!

[Kraegos]

Nice card! Kraegos, remember you have the ability to CrossfireX it later with a 38x0 card. Also, not too sure if I like the open ram without heatsinks or any type of cooling on it.

Are we looking at the same card?? I thought the fins around the fan WERE the heatsinks.

Also how do you do crossfire on a PCIe card if you have only 1 PCIex16 slot? Don't laugh, I'm not dumb, just ignorant...there is a difference! lol

[JrRacinFan]

I was speaking in restrospect. Hypothetically, you purchase a new motherboard that does support Crossfire and also purchase an HD3850 seperately on top of it. I am unsure of how well it would perform but in theory you could CrossfireX those 2 card together.

Also no, no ram heatsinks involved on either of those cards. It would have to be aftermarket and purchased seperately also.

[niko084]

With what you have for a processor, I would aim for a 8800gs, 8600gt, 2600xt, hd3850.... much more would be a waste of video card, unless you plan on some serious upgrades on your processor.

[Azazel]

ATI 3650 good cheap card :)

[niko084]

ATI 3650 good cheap card :)

2600xt is a faster card :)

[Azazel]

i though the 3650 was a little faster?

[JrRacinFan]

HD3650 scales better when overclocking. Other than that, they are pretty much the exact same inb performance terms.

[Azazel]

thanks....man...i just remember you wanted a pic....il send you one :p man

[niko084]

Sorry its the GDDR4 2600s that beat the 3650s well.
I should have noted that before.