4870? 3870x3? 4850x3? decisions decisions

[Binge]

Ive never heard of a bottleneck occurring from a slot limited to 8x. GTX295s reach full potential on 8x. The point is that we havent come anywhere near the full bandwidth of pci-e.

Put it this way:
if a GTX295 is running 2 GTX260s on 1 slot, it would be like running each at 8x, and the GTX260 is at or above the performance of a 3870x2, yet it is not bottlenecked.

talking about the bandwidth of the 3870x2, not the GTX cards. Also, i guarantee you the next dual gpu solution from NV at 8x will outperform the GTX295 at 16x.
I dont believe it is an issue with bandwidth.

Really you were talking about the bandwidth from the 3870x2? I could have sworn you were talking about "GTX295s reach full potential on 8x". That's a bold statement when there are facts to prove otherwise.

4830 cross or tri-fire would not be a bad choice, like the two above suggested.

 

[3870x2]

Really you were talking about the bandwidth from the 3870x2? I could have sworn you were talking about "GTX295s reach full potential on 8x". That's a bold statement when there are facts to prove otherwise.

4830 cross or tri-fire would not be a bad choice, like the two above suggested.

That was not the subject of which I spoke, so yes, you were incorrect.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-meets-pci-express,1761-13.html - shows minimal improvements.
If the same improvements can be seen on a 2900XT (or 8800GTS512) using 8x vs 16x, we can assume it is not a bandwidth issue.

 

[Binge]

Regardless you've made an erroneous statement and I hope you try not to confuse the issue by making bogus claims about different graphics cards to support your "subject"

 

[3870x2]

So you are saying that a 2900XT has the same bandwidth problems as a GTX295 on 8x vs 16x? im confused as to what you are trying to say here.
please elaborate.

 

[Binge]

Ive never heard of a bottleneck occurring from a slot limited to 8x. GTX295s reach full potential on 8x. The point is that we havent come anywhere near the full bandwidth of pci-e.

Put it this way:
if a GTX295 is running 2 GTX260s on 1 slot, it would be like running each at 8x, and the GTX260 is at or above the performance of a 3870x2, yet it is not bottlenecked.

The statement above is what I have a problem with. GTX295s do not reach their full potential in an x8 slot. You seem to be confused with how a PCI-E lane works. A dual slot card does not get x8 and x8 when it is in a x16 lane... it gets x16 and the bus width is doubled. We obviously have reached a point where x16 lanes make a difference because Fitseries 3 proved it by showing a 2000 point difference in various benchmarks when he moved from a rampage II extreme to the P6T6 Revolution. His test was using GTX260s and 295s so when you make all of these claims that pci-e bandwidth makes no difference I HAVE to call you out on it because it's completely and totally false.

 

[3870x2]

The statement above is what I have a problem with. GTX295s do not reach their full potential in an x8 slot. You seem to be confused with how a PCI-E lane works. A dual slot card does not get x8 and x8 when it is in a x16 lane... it gets x16 and the bus width is doubled. We obviously have reached a point where x16 lanes make a difference because Fitseries 3 proved it by showing a 2000 point difference in various benchmarks when he moved from a rampage II extreme to the P6T6 Revolution. His test was using GTX260s and 295s so when you make all of these claims that pci-e bandwidth makes no difference I HAVE to call you out on it because it's completely and totally false.

Sounds great. And since when have 3dmarks ever been an accurate benchmark of gaming?
Still, as it pertains to him, the 8x is not going to make enough of a difference to change his mind. My point has been made quite clearly, without you trying your damnest to prove me wrong, just letting him know that he is good to go.

EDIT: Tom's hardware = "bogus claim"?

 

[Binge]

Sounds great. And since when have 3dmarks ever been an accurate benchmark of gaming?
Still, as it pertains to him, the 8x is not going to make enough of a difference to change his mind. My point has been made quite clearly, without you trying your damnest to prove me wrong, just letting him know that he is good to go.

I could care less whether you feel right or wrong by this. Cling to your copouts and misinformation, but do not spread lies about technology you know very little about. I'm not saying you can't grasp the information, but I'm just expressing that what I quoted of you when taken out of your context (whatever the hell it was, could have fooled me that you had a point) is completely wrong. You are not on any good authority to claim that a 2000 point increase in 3Dmarks Vantage and 06 would not show up in a gaming situation, and for what purpose do you have in advocating multi-card solutions to gaming? Everyone knows that drivers limit the functionality of multi-GPU solutions in video games.

Get off it man. I could care less that your intentions were right. You used a poor argument to support a small point/concern of the OP, and then use even poorer excuses, which I frankly don't need, to advocate spreading misinformation.

To the OP, I am sorry. I will no longer post on the subject of PCI-E lanes and performance with multi-gpu solutions because when it comes down to it... if you are gaming, single slot is better. When you are using 3D applications a single card is better. When you are benchmarking/folding then multiple GPUs are a fine idea.

 

[Binge]

Sounds great. And since when have 3dmarks ever been an accurate benchmark of gaming?
Still, as it pertains to him, the 8x is not going to make enough of a difference to change his mind. My point has been made quite clearly, without you trying your damnest to prove me wrong, just letting him know that he is good to go.

EDIT: Tom's hardware = "bogus claim"?

Why not site your information? when did I say "bogus claim"? L2Quote people plz

 

[Lazzer408]

Even on that 4x slot the score didnt drop -that- much. There would still be some inprovement over 2 4850s in crossfire. What bothers me more is the lack of pipes or shaders or w/e over the 4870s. Not having them will hurt benchmark scores as well as game benchmarks. Is the 3rd 4850 enough to make up for it? Is it cost effective? I think 3 4850s would be faster then a 3870x2. But some argue.

 

[Binge]

Like I said above. Multi-gpu = baaaadddd.... Just wait until the 5800 cards come out and you'll be able to spank nvidia cards too. It's already this late in the game why dump money into less graphics that use more power/heat?

 

[3870x2]

Why not site your information? when did I say "bogus claim"? L2Quote people plz

I assume you mean cite, as in citation.
Im not going to argue with you any longer, from some of your previous posts I see that you like to attack people, most of them ignore you, I should have done the same.

I gave myself a +1, I needed a pat on the back

 

[Binge]

I assume you mean cite, as in citation.
Im not going to argue with you any longer, from some of your previous posts I see that you like to attack people, most of them ignore you, I should have done the same.

I gave myself a +1, I needed a pat on the back

So where is your citation? You really need to change the subject? Do you see how close the S and C are on the keyboard? A spelling error is really effective since it seems since you got the point. The same oddity can be found in your posts because of how they can be coherent yet devoid of useful information. This isn't an argument.

 

[spearman914]

Like I said above. Multi-gpu = baaaadddd.... Just wait until the 5800 cards come out and you'll be able to spank nvidia cards too. It's already this late in the game why dump money into less graphics that use more power/heat?

What??? 5xxx won't come out that fast, unless ur very patient.

 

[Binge]

What??? 5xxx won't come out that fast, unless ur very patient.

So NOW is the time to be impatient?

 

[spearman914]

So NOW is the time to be impatient?

Yup!

 

[3870x2]

Like I said above. Multi-gpu = baaaadddd.... Just wait until the 5800 cards come out and you'll be able to spank nvidia cards too. It's already this late in the game why dump money into less graphics that use more power/heat?

Talk about misinformation. Some lower end multi-GPU solutions are faster than costly single card solutions, IE 4830s vs GTX280.
The S and the C keys are more of a mental error, much like your previous posts.

 

[Binge]

Talk about misinformation. Some lower end multi-GPU solutions are faster than costly single card solutions, IE 4830s vs GTX280.
The S and the C keys are more of a mental error, much like your previous posts.

3870x2. You've crossed the line and the 4830 xfire vs GTX280 does not apply in all cases. Please stop giving people misinformation. It's fine if this guy wants to just game and play games proven to run better in crossfire, but that may not be the case. Your purpose here should be to give him points but not to mislead him into wasting money to satisfy your need to feel accepted.

 

[Thermopylae_480]

3870x2. You've crossed the line and the 4830 xfire vs GTX280 does not apply in all cases. Please stop giving people misinformation. It's fine if this guy wants to just game and play games proven to run better in crossfire, but that may not be the case. You purpose here should be to give him points but not to mislead him into wasting money to satisfy your need to feel accepted.

Talk about misinformation. Some lower end multi-GPU solutions are faster than costly single card solutions, IE 4830s vs GTX280.
The S and the C keys are more of a mental error, much like your previous posts.

Both of your comments are unacceptable. Please remain polite.

 

[3870x2]

It is not misinformation, it is great information IMO, shocking that little 4830s have such price/performance power.
You are right, this is not a personal argument, and I apologize for the personal comment in post #41.
The point still stands that it was quality information. Im sure most would agree that price/performance they would rather buy 4830s if they had a CFX board, rather than spend much more money for a GTX280.

 

[mlee49]

I vote option 1. If you're getting $50 for a 1950 then your making out like a bandit. I saw a 3870 go for $75 here not that long ago and that would be the better future upgrade if you need to upgrade rig #2.

 

[Binge]

Price to performance isn't the issue and this Lazzer408 guy is going with ATi. My recommendation is to just wait until the next series of cards because the single card will be better than a current dual solution, hands down. If you, 3870x2, are stating multi-gpu is better than single gpu then you should look at those results again. Yes it was amazing to see 4830s stand up and match a GTX280 in some catagories, but it is not so impressive once you get a factory overclocked 280 or just overclock one yourself.

I'm still off subject. The subject is that if Lazzer408 wants to crossfire then he should do it, but don't spend so much, save money, and go with the 4830s Xfire. If you want to do more than wait for drivers to correct the problems you will encounter with new games then wait for a better single card.

 

[theorw]

Even on that 4x slot the score didnt drop -that- much. There would still be some inprovement over 2 4850s in crossfire. What bothers me more is the lack of pipes or shaders or w/e over the 4870s. Not having them will hurt benchmark scores as well as game benchmarks. Is the 3rd 4850 enough to make up for it? Is it cost effective? I think 3 4850s would be faster then a 3870x2. But some argue.

4850 is exactly the same chip just lower clock and memory type.Same 800 shaders.4850 oc's easily to 700MHZ from the stock 625.
But for yuor information,look at this

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Call-of-Duty-4-v1-6,746.html

and this

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/chart...q3-2008/Crysis-v1-21,Marque_fbrandx4,758.html

just to get an idea of what 2 4850s vs 3870x2 can do IN GAMES!
In most cases the 4000 series beat the 3000 considerably!re member:its 2*800(more sophisticated) shaders vs 2*320!!!!

 

[3870x2]

Binge, quite politely, the mods asked us to say nothing further, as we've said enough.

 

[sneekypeet]

Binge, quite politely, the mods asked us to say nothing further, as we've said enough.

I have to agree here. If you two want to continue this discussion please take this to the PM's. If I see one more post not helping L408 and going between each other, I will release the diamond encrusted infraction stick from its protective sheathe.

 

[Lazzer408]

I forgot the 4850 has ddr3 not ddr5 like the 4870.

Theorw, I skimmed through some of the games on your link. The 3870x2 (or 3870 cf) beats the 4850 is some games like Crysis I see. In other games the 4850 stomped the 3870x2. I went to TigerDirect today and the 4850s were $149. I couldn't bring myself to try them at a cost of $450 so it looks like that's a no-go for now. I'll be buying the 3870x2 soon and post my results and also what adding my extra 3870, for 3way, gets me. Hopefully the 4870 is here soon.

Thanks for everyones input so far.