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ATI Still the best choice for performance per dollar

newtekie1

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lol my 260's run at ATI 4870/X2 clocks... :D and they whoop its azz at those.

This is a liable flame thread. Performance/money always goes to the best OCing components most articles don't take that into account... in which case i would say 4830 1GB. 4870 and 280/285 are recockulously overpriced.

The 65NM 260 216 can OC past a 285 stock performance so that may be in the running too as you can find it for under $200 AR.

OCing is only important if you overclock, the articles usually don't consider it because most consumers do not overclock(hence why pre-overclocked cards are popular).

And as for the 65nm GTX260 216 overclocking past 285 stock performance, that just isn't true, not without really good cooling and volt-mods. My GTX260 that I just sent back for a GTX285 could barely match the GTX285 stock clocks, forget about pushing it to the clocks needs to match GTX285 performance, even with volt-modding the BIOS.
 
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OCing is only important if you overclock, the articles usually don't consider it because most consumers do not overclock(hence why pre-overclocked cards are popular).

I concur... but I feel if a consumer is savvy enough to buy a stand alone videocard, and put it in their computer, uninstall drivers etc., trying to get the max performance out of a game, then they are savvy enough to overclock the card.

GAMING card consumers are different from non-gaming card consumers. Those who buy cards to surf the net/ do some HD movie playback will not overclock a card - they are by far the majority of consumers. But those who want the best perfromance for the money in a game will - they are the minority - but also the ones who buy $150-500 videocards.

So yes while most consumers who buy discrete graphics cards are not necessarily gamers (regular users, OEMs, System builders, IT guys), buy cheaper cards, and do not overclock them - the majority of people who read the reviews and want a gaming card do OC.

I could be wrong

EDIT: whoa... sorry to hear that about your 260... I've build 3 systems for people so far using the 260's, 2 SLI and one normal. All of them have OC'd to at least 700MHz+ core and 1458shaders. There are definitely bad clockers out there though. Maybe overclocking past 285 performance is a bit of a stretch... better 280 performance. fixed.
 
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See thats the thing, Nvidia cards have to be overclocked voiding their waranty to reach the performance of ATI cards...
 
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See thats the thing, Nvidia cards have to be overclocked voiding their waranty to reach the performance of ATI cards...

At the mid-range, i would agree with that.
 

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See thats the thing, Nvidia cards have to be overclocked voiding their waranty to reach the performance of ATI cards...

its more like stock vs stock is pretty even and when they are overclocked the difference is big,

and every single person i know with a gaming grade card has oc'ed it in the past or has it oc'ed now.

could just be me and my nerdy nerdy mates :rolleyes:
 
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At the mid-range, i would agree with that.

And then the high end Nvidia cards give medium to little better performance than ATI cards at the same level yet cost more...

ITS STUPID EVERYONE ABANDON THE NVIDIA SHIP, ITS SINKING
 

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What if you don't want to OC though? To be honest I prefer to not put any more stress than I must on my components for longevity's sake.
 

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What if you don't want to OC though? To be honest I prefer to not put any more stress than I must on my components for longevity's sake.

That's silly. The only way to really shorten a cards lifespan is to volt mod it. As long as you have good cooling, overclocking on stock volts won't kill the card as long as it's not high enough to cause artifacts.
 
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And then the high end Nvidia cards give medium to little better performance than ATI cards at the same level yet cost more...

ITS STUPID EVERYONE ABANDON THE NVIDIA SHIP, ITS SINKING

errrrmmmmm..... no.

That's silly. The only way to really shorten a cards lifespan is to volt mod it. As long as you have good cooling, overclocking on stock volts won't kill the card as long as it's not high enough to cause artifacts.

+1
 
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What if you don't want to OC though? To be honest I prefer to not put any more stress than I must on my components for longevity's sake.

True. Then Nvidia would need SLI to keep up with an ATi card

There is a small risk of destroying card with voltage and everything...
 
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True. Then Nvidia would need SLI to keep up with an ATi card

That is the most unrealistic thing i have ever heard. ATI has a slight advantage at the mid-range. But at the High-end its all Nvidia.

after a 4830 comes the 260 216, then the 280, then the 295 all at stock...
 

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case and point for high end.

 
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Please note that the GTX 295 is overclocked... And not overclocked gets little extra FPS than the 4870x2... Please guys, ATI are a better choice for your wallet and performance...
 
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Try taking your 9800 back to original clocks and see what hapens... Cause it looks like it has ben overclocked...

Nvidia clocks are hilarious... They are always lower than ATI's
GTX 295:

Core clock: 576MHZ x 2
Memory Clock: 1000MHZ

Palit 4870 1GB

Core Clock: 775MHZ
Memory Clock: 4000MHZ

Its seriously stupid... But of course the GTX 295 wins in other areas, but if ATI can do those clocks, cant Nvidia???

lol, you are comparing apples to oranges. That's the same as saying "The orange has a well developed, thick skin for protection. Why can't the apple have the same skin, and why can't it be orange, and why can't they taste the same." Nvidia GPU's and ATi GPU's are NOT the same. Clock speed doesn't matter.

BTW, your GTX295's memory clocks are wrong. GTX295 = 1000MHz x2 HD4870 1000MHz x4
 

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I concur... but I feel if a consumer is savvy enough to buy a stand alone videocard, and put it in their computer, uninstall drivers etc., trying to get the max performance out of a game, then they are savvy enough to overclock the card.

GAMING card consumers are different from non-gaming card consumers. Those who buy cards to surf the net/ do some HD movie playback will not overclock a card - they are by far the majority of consumers. But those who want the best perfromance for the money in a game will - they are the minority - but also the ones who buy $150-500 videocards.

So yes while most consumers who buy discrete graphics cards are not necessarily gamers (regular users, OEMs, System builders, IT guys), buy cheaper cards, and do not overclock them - the majority of people who read the reviews and want a gaming card do OC.

I could be wrong

EDIT: whoa... sorry to hear that about your 260... I've build 3 systems for people so far using the 260's, 2 SLI and one normal. All of them have OC'd to at least 700MHz+ core and 1458shaders. There are definitely bad clockers out there though. Maybe overclocking past 285 performance is a bit of a stretch... better 280 performance. fixed.

The majority of consumers, even the majority of gaming consumers, do not overclock their cards. They don't want voided warranties, and they don't want the risk of killing a part. It isn't a matter of them not being capable, it is a matter of them just not wanting to do it.

And my card, with the BIOS volt mod, did 700MHz+, but that certainly didn't match stock GTX285 performance. In fact it did 725MHz, I forget the shaders but they were at whatever that would be linked with the core. The problem is the memory would only do 1150Mhz. Memory bandwidth wasn't even close to the GTX280's, and even if it was, the core is still weaker in terms of performance, close but still weaker.

See thats the thing, Nvidia cards have to be overclocked voiding their waranty to reach the performance of ATI cards...

No they don't. The stock nVidia cards outperform the stock ATi cards. The GTX260 outperforms the HD4870, and the GTX260 216 makes the lead even bigger. The 9800GTX matches the HD4850, and the 9800GTX+ makes the gap even bigger. The 9800GT matches the HD4830. The GTX295 outperforms the HD4870x2, hands down. In the mid and low range, the 9600GT easily outperforms the HD4670, and the 9500GT close to doubles the HD4550's performance.

And another major misconception is that overclocking voids the warranty, it doesn't, as long as you don't kill the card by overclocking it, and even then most manufacturers will still replace the card if you do. And that goes back to what phanbuey said, most people do believe overclocking voids the warranty, and they don't want to do it. The enthusiasts like us, and the people we associate with, are a different bread from the majority of consumers.

Nvidia clocks are hilarious... They are always lower than ATI's

Always you say? Take a look at the shader clocks of nVidia's cards against ATi's.

GTX295: 1242MHz
HD4870x2: 750MHz

And the shaders are the work horse in current generation cards.
 
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My 4870 out performs a GTX 280 on some resolutions

I'd have to say I've never seen a 4870 beat a GTX280 in benchmarks although right now I'm doing my own benchmarks and would love to test a 4870 1gb.
 

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My 4870 out performs a GTX 280 on some resolutions

...on some games. It's not common, in fact, it's an exception, it only happens in very few occasions.

A 8800/9800 GT outperforms the HD4870 in some resolutions in some games.

About the THG article the prices are wrong to begin with, so I don't know how can they make any judgement if they didn't check the prices properly. For example, you can have plenty of factory overclocked GTX260 216's from good brands for little more than $200 and that would decimate the HD4870. It takes the 1 GB HD4870 to come "somehow" close and those are more EXPENSIVE than said GTX260's, so certainly the article is clearly wrong in that aspect. And I'm confident that the same can be said about many other choices.
 
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...on some games. It's not common, in fact, it's an exception, it only happens in very few occasions.

A 8800/9800 GT outperforms the HD4870 in some resolutions in some games.

About the THG article the prices are wrong to begin with, so I don't know how can they make any judgement if they didn't check the prices properly. For example, you can have plenty of factory overclocked GTX260 216's from good brands for little more than $200 and that would decimate the HD4870. It takes the 1 GB HD4870 to come "somehow" close and those are more EXPENSIVE than said GTX260's, so certainly the article is clearly wrong in that aspect. And I'm confident that the same can be said about many other choices.


The prices don't have to be exact, for our ever changing economy its obvious the price will change, but in a gradual manner. Even then the price go lower or high or back to the normal price its not enough to consider otherwise as the prices are not the same for everyone. It depends on when the retailer purchases their stock it could be when dollar decreases meaning they gotta pay more for an ATI supply of cards compared to the previous NVIDIA stock that was bought when currency was higher. This is where I think what you're saying is completely biased, the prices are right as Tom's Hardware did a calculation of its real set price, retail price will always change but not enough to conclude to Tom's Hardware posting incorrect information. You talk like Tom's Hardware knows of every PC retailer in the world and failed to calculate the average with all their stocks combined together :laugh:.


These guys aren't judging cards, they're recommending the cards that would simply be the best choice for ANY gamer out there. And no not every gamer overclocks their card because as mentioned before, they do not want to void their warranty or risk any damage to what they have. I can confidently say that the farthest MOST users will go is overclock via driver software. Only a small fraction of us volt mod etc compared to the whole world.
 
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And my card, with the BIOS volt mod, did 700MHz+, but that certainly didn't match stock GTX285 performance. In fact it did 725MHz, I forget the shaders but they were at whatever that would be linked with the core. The problem is the memory would only do 1150Mhz. Memory bandwidth wasn't even close to the GTX280's, and even if it was, the core is still weaker in terms of performance, close but still weaker...

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/evga_gtx260/6.htm thats an OC'd 192SP 260 walking all over a 280.
 
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If I were to pick a single GPU card from that list it would definitely be the gtx260 hands down.

Why, do you run your games on that monitor at medium game settings?
 

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http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/evga_gtx260/6.htm thats an OC'd 192SP 260 walking all over a 280.

Odd, considering the 260 at those settings don't even come close to putting out the performance power of the 280. The fact that no mention of drivers used also peaks my interest. Something tells me there is something funky going on here, I highly doubt the same drivers were used on all the cards, which has a huge affect on performance. Hell, he used the drivers that came on the CD with the GTX260...:roll:
 

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The Doctor is in the house
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Benchmark Scores 3DMark06 - 18064 http://img.techpowerup.org/090720/Capture002.jpg
I don't think an oc'd 260 could beat a 280 I'm sure as hell mine can't but I wouldn't mind getting a 280 and putting it to the test.
 
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Why, do you run your games on that monitor at medium game settings?

Haha nah, 2 His IceQ4 4850's treat me better than anything else, runs max on any game even with x4aa x16 af except for crysis of course, all high dx9 64bit 1680x1050 for me ave 52fps on benchmark tool no aa or af needed. I use V-Sync for all so I wouldn't know much but every game i've played other than crysis stays at 60fps.

I was just saying if I were to buy a single GPU solution I would pick a gtx260 because its the cheapest in its performance range and can clock to match or outperform a card priced at a higher margin. Since I'm on a budget (Hence 4850's) the gtx 260 would own if I was still using my P5QL Pro Mobo :D, but no point since im using P5Q Pro now.
 

aCid888*

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After reading all this thread, all I have to say is that pretty much all l33tGaMeR said is either incorrect or fanboyism.....if you want to buy a 260GTX over a 4870 that's up to you.

Get on with it and enjoy gaming as that's the whole point of owning ANY video card anyway. :toast:
 
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