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AMD's HD5970 faster than Nvidia Fermi chip!

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Cypress yields not a problem
Written by David Stellmack
Tuesday, 12 January 2010 18:01

40nm process getting 60% to 80%


Claims that the current TSMC 40nm process that is being used for the AMD/ATI Cypress family is achieving yields of in the neighborhood of 40% don’t seem to have a shred of truth. Our sources close to TSMC claim that actually the 40nm process that is being used for the Cypress family is routinely achieving yields in the 60% to 80% range, which is actually confirmed by the fact that ATI is keeping product in the pipeline and you can actually buy boards at retail.

Chip yields seem to be the topic of discussion lately as the much larger Nvidia Fermi chip is struggling with yield issues as our sources suggest that the actual yields are as low as 20% and are not improving quickly according to sources close to the fabs. With wafer starts costing about $5K the numbers suggest that each chip would cost an astounding estimated $200 per chip which pegs the card with a sticker price of about $600.

Those in the know are claiming that Fermi despite the yield and thermal issues is only about 20% faster than Cypress, while Hemlock smokes it. The combination of low yields, high thermals, and marginally better performance than Cypress could be conspiring to place Nvida in the position of having to release the card, but have to sell it at a loss till they are able to address the issues in the next spin according to sources. Because of the situation a mole we know is suggesting that Nvidia may limit the sales of Fermi to consumers and instead use the chips for the Tesla and Quadro products where prices and margins are much better.

All of the talk of yields seems to be in some ways nothing more than a smoke screen to shine the light off of the current situation to stall sales by promising something that most consumers are likely going to be unable to buy. The moles claim you will not need a pair of 3D glasses to watch this shake out in the next few weeks.
LINK:
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17205/1/

Looks like NVIDIA is having a lot of yield & heat problems. NVIDIA will do anything to deny such claims or there stock would drop like rocks which is why they keep re-enforcing that there's nothing wrong with Fermi where in FACT we all know they are having major issues. Hence the many release dates they keep postponing. I was hoping for an earlier release so NVIDIA can help drive prices of the HD 5870 down :D
 

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Ya, its 20% faster then a HD 5870, wait for the daul 1200-1400 dollar gpu solutions hits the market and is 40% faster then a HD 5970.

Screw it even if im a nvidia lover, IM NOT PAYING 600 DOLLARS FOR TE 20% GAIN.
 
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Ya, its 20% faster then a HD 5870, wait for the daul 1200-1400 dollar gpu solutions hits the market and is 40% faster then a HD 5970.

Screw it even if im a nvidia lover, IM NOT PAYING 600 DOLLARS FOR TE 20% GAIN.

It dosent seem logical at all, sucks if Nvidia has to sell them at a loss to compete
 

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its fudzilla there the Steven Quincy Urkel of the tech world in terms of information

 
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SummerDays

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One company is getting 20% yields, while the next company is getting 60-80% yields?

And they're using the same fab? Hmm. Something doesn't make sense there.

In any case, what % do you think you will gain from hooking up a second ATI card in crossfire?

A 20% gain for a single card is quite a bit.

Yes, I'm aware they go for a more complex solution
 
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One company is getting 20% yields, while the next company is getting 60-80% yields?

And they're using the same fab? Hmm. Something doesn't make sense there.

Nvidia's chips are almost 2x bigger than ATI's but suspect Nvidas yields to be atleast 30 to 40%
 
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One company is getting 20% yields, while the next company is getting 60-80% yields?

And they're using the same fab? Hmm. Something doesn't make sense there.
Yes something is wrong, NVIDIA’s Fermi chip is a complicated chip, which is the problem. Don’t get me wrong, I admire NVIDIA for releasing monster graphics cards in the past and they seem to be following the same trend with the Fermi chip. But they really are having problems in yields and heat. This new card is supposed to be at least 1.5 x hotter than NVIDIA’s flagship card today.

We need competition and I know the Fermi will be the card to do that, but I beleive NVIDIA is rushing it because ATI already sold more than 2 million HD 5000's cards. And they are going to sell a dump load more once the HD 5600's and the HD 5500's come on line next week :eek:
 
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Benchmark Scores later...
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its fudzilla there the Steven Quincy Urkel of the tech world in terms of information
Some might say that but little do people know Fudzilla has industry connections coming out of his aris just like Mike Magee from The Inquirer ;)
 

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would the transister density of fermi also affect yields? i heard fermi's density is alot greater than RV870's. and i too agree, almost everything fudzilla has said over the past 6months has been very very accurate, and what they've stated would makes perfect sense. I mean it isn't anything most of us haven't thought of from time to time anyways.
 
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I live about 40 mins away from TSMC. Everyone just wait, I'll go down there and ask them....:laugh:
 
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I live about 40 mins away from TSMC. Everyone just wait, I'll go down there and ask them....:laugh:
Make sure you take your Canon SLR Digital Camera OK, and get the scoop on what’s really going on.

I’ve heard a rumour that Aliens were involved with Fermi, but for some crazy reason NVIDIA’s CEO Jen-Hsun Huang didn’t like the direction they were taking NVIDIA hence we have all the delays.:laugh:
 
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would the transister density of fermi also affect yields? i heard fermi's density is alot greater than RV870's. and i too agree, almost everything fudzilla has said over the past 6months has been very very accurate, and what they've stated would makes perfect sense. I mean it isn't anything most of us haven't thought of from time to time anyways.

Cypress' density: 2.15 billion / 324 sq mm ~= 6.636 million / 1 sq mm
Fermi: 3.2 billion / (rumoured) ca. 500 sq mm (give or take 20) ~= 6.4 million / 1 sq mm

So no, Fermi's density is not greater (it's 6.66 if it's 480 sq mm, but I think it will be 500 at least).
 

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But a bigger area will mean that it has a greater chance of a defect happening. 324/500=0.648, which means Nvidia has a 60% more chance of having a defect on its chip than ATI, if Ati yields are 60%. then Nvidia's chips will hit 24% success rate only, which is in line with the rumors.
 

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Indeed, there is pretty much a fixed chance of an error occurring during the process, so having a bigger chip is the problem. I think ATi saw that coming and made a very small cypress chip. I'm in no doubt ATi could have made a 3200 shader card instead (the hd5870 is a remarkably cool card when the fan is turned up to 40-60%, even when heavily overclocked) but chose not to in order to avoid the same problems as nvidia. It's wideley assumed nvidia are having heat troubles anyway, something is holding them back, after all. If fermi were god's gift to gpu's and was absolutely perfect in design and function, it would already have come out :p

But it's not like dx9 games can utilise the 1600 shaders anyway, so 3200 would just be a waste on the load of tripe (dx9 games to be specific) that comes out of the gaming market at the moment.
 
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And it's not only Fudzilla, yesterday I found an article on Toms Hardware stating about the heat problems of Fermi.
 

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From what I've seen and heard it smokes Hemlock by 9-12% at this stage, before even their release drivers.

I remain very hopeful.
 

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Ehhhhh this looks like an oddly conditioned article. Doom and gloom.
 
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id explain it but i tried to before posting this and it wasnt possible i lose :toast:
 

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From what I've seen and heard it smokes Hemlock by 9-12% at this stage, before even their release drivers.

I remain very hopeful.

Its probably more than 10-12% more expensive, so you would be disappointed.
 
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