Please get me a document by AMD where they claim to OFFICIALLY running the CPU out of specs.
amd has stated that they support using mobile cpus in older first gen socketA laptops, and that they "may work at reduced speed", you can get them with higher multiplyer that give same speeds OFFICALY as upgrades to older platforms.
amd never uses the same socket and makes a chip incompable with it.
These converters had nothing to do with the P3/P4 issue, the Tualatin simply kicked Willamette on any board. It's why they lowered the cache and removed SMP from the new chips. Only Tualatin512 supports SMP. However, you can run any older CPU in a newer board, which is what backwards compatible means for the socket. I never stated that the CPU is backwards compatible without mods.
yes intel did infact push companys to stop selling the converters to use TU chips in Coppermine boards, and Yes it was because TU was STOMPING THE SHIT OUT OF P4.
Yes, out of spec, unsupported, which is according to you negative.
you can get barton mobil chips with high default multi or unlocked multi and use them in an older board, amd has stated in the past that socketA chips are all backword compatable with older boards/chipsets and that "they may work at reduced frequincys"
this means they are supported, tho not at the "rated speed"
When you buy any Intel based board you KNOW what you're getting. It says so on the box. It doesn't claim to support next years CPU, and if it does claim so it will support it. So "knowing" what you're getting is a bit silly to use as an argument.
well true if you been around enought to see how intel swaps out sockets or socket SPECS then you been around long enought to know that your SOL as soon as a new core comes out and will need a new board to properly support it or use it at all in the case of core2.
but many non-guru's dont realise this, i know at least 8 people who self build 423 systems with 1.4gz chips because they where under the impression that intel would support the socket for more then the 6months it was acctualy avalable(boards came late and chips leaft early hence 6 months effective life span)
If you don't give a shit, why do you start this thread? Sounds like a big flame in that context.
i mean i dont care what the names are, i stoped tracking that long ago, with intel systems i upgrade if i can, most times this isnt easly done, but if i can i get them a better chip/ram, if not, most of them go sempy64 on the cheap with the ability to go full athlon anywhere down the road.
no cpu maker officaly supports overclocking with anything but their extream lines, suck as fx or extream edition, as you know, but they amd did point out that the 3700+ shares the exect same core as the fx51, so they unofficialy-officaly support it i guess you could say.
newcastle they didnt promote overclocking with ofcorse, no fx's based off it
Luckily your AM2 also supports the new generation FX CPUs. Ah wait, you need socket F there. Then again, you knew what you were getting, so AMD is doing good there.
My current board already supports quad core CPUs btw. No new board required.
how about mid next year? you gonna have to get a new board then for the new chips they bring out then?, or how about a year from now? 2 years from now?, oh thats right, intel socket specs dont last that long
and honestly unlike intel heads most amd users dont obsess over the fx line, most of us couldnt care less about FX chips, its only intel fanboi's that obsess and foam at the mouth over athlon FX chips, get over it already.
Besides Prescott 478 and various BIOS updates for tons of boards out there. Then again, like you said, if not all of the boards support next gen CPUs Intel is to blame.
intel dosnt tell its partners what its gonna do next till its about to do it, so yes, thats why u saw VERY FEW conroe/core2 compatable boards when core2 came out, nobody knew what was up, intel didnt have to make this change, all core2 chips are SOFTWARE FUSED to only work in supported bords, this isnt a hardware limitation, its dont simply so intel can sell more boards and chipsets.
I have a i865 board with official Dual core support. In fact the newer revision even supports Conroe. All that using DDR+AGP. Apparantly it's not a chipset issue.
so, its not that the chipsets dont support it, its that intel wants to sell more chipsets, Oh and glad you could make that clear, good job admiting your favorite cpu maker is forcing people to buy new boards or new revisions of boards just to support a chip that should/could work in the board they already have, i truely am glad you admit that.
Sure, 423 didn't last long. more than 6 months though. How long was SlotA available though? Not really a long lasting platform either.
as i remmber it had close to 2 years b4 they dumped it fully, even then amd did put out tbirds for socketA between 700mhz and 1.4gz,(the whole range of tbird chips)
So basically AMD uses different sockets for different CPUs at the same time. Isn't that just as bad? Currently Intel only has only two sockets on the market in those markets, 775 and 771.
its more honest then selling 775 boards that arent compatable with new chips, making people who already payed good$ buy a new board just because intel wants to sell more boards/chipsets, you already admited intel forced upgrade, its a known fact that core2 chips are able to be used in any dual core capable 775board but are software fused to only work in newer boards, again intel wants to sell more chipsets and boards, i never said NEW chipsets, i said MORE chipsets, the dont care if its 8xx chipsets or 9xx chipsets of whatever,they just want to sell more and they will use dirty tricks to do it.
First of all I simply stated that AMD used super socket 7 while Intel started to use 370, your list starts at Socket A. I had no "point" besides that you were leaving 2 sockets out.
ok, add 2 if you really feel that socket7 is valid or take off the early 370 with removal of rev1 370 you got 12 socket changes that arent backword compatable(newer chips dont work in older boards or at least not properly.)
So because you have no need for dual core it can't be used as argument? Like there is need for an 800MHz FSB for the average home user. Word runs fine on a P3/K6-2.
amd never implyed there would be dual core for 754, they never made a dual core chip that used a 754 pin socket but wouldnt work in a socket754 bord just because it wasnt NEW. corse they aren intel they didnt have everything to gain by forcing people to buy newboards with their chipsets on them.
Basically you just hate Intel. That's ok, I don't mind.
no i hate how intel does buisness, they FORCE un-nessery upgrades on people using tricks and slight of hand or outright lies by ommition.
what do you call software fusing cpu's to not run on pre core2 relice 775 boards?
proof can be found on ebay, buy an engeneering sample core2 chip, the latest ones made are just retail chips without the softlock to keep them from working in older boards.
and amd fsb changes never came without chips OFFICALY RATED for the lower fsb with higher multi being avalable for a goodly while after.
board makers will support use of newer cores and reduced speed on older boards for the most part, not all of them, but most i have delt with will just tell you"its not gonna work at rated speed but it will work" thats that epox,gigabyte,apoen,soltek,and even ecs told me.
infact the only ones who said it wouldnt work was abit, and it was because of a design flaw in their board(also caused problems with last rev tbirds rated at 1.4gz)
i live neer intel, and see how they treat their employs, i visit intel and a few friends who work their at least once a year each normaly spending the whole day at intel with them, they are VERY arrogant, even their reps who promote the stuff are snotty and will say that they feel a true enthusist is more then happy to change out his system a couple times a year.
on the other hand i see amd reps maby 2x a year, they are alwase hummble, and alwase friendly, and also like to use phrases like "we like to see our costmers get the most value out of their computing doller" when asked what they mean they normaly say they like to see people being able to buy one platform and have it last a couple years b4 it needs a cpu upgrade and even longer befor you need a board upgrade.
its a diffrane in culture and attatude, amd reps have also been known to carry around goodies to give out to people, like oem or even retail cpus and those cute little amd bunny suit dolls.
intel reps have given me 2 things in the 5+years i been visiting them at intel, i got a small intel shirt(im a big guy so that was useless to me) and an intel sticker pack.
no i dont diss their products, and infact i have said i would be willing even intrested in trying out something intel in a system i built, they just smile and say that i should get an extream edition cpu and this or that intel board and this or that ram/video card/exct.
totaly diffrent attatudes as companys, one treats people like....well treats us like valued costmers, the other like nothing more then a source of revenu.
oh and lets talk RMA policy and hassles.
amd, send in a cpu, get a cpu back, if its a lower rated cpu, most times u get at least a small step up, rma's i ahve done with amd and result
1900+ palimino that just died, rma, 1 week after shiping it usps i got a call, they didnt have any paliminos left and offered me a tbred-a 2200+ retail pack with full warr in exchange(great deal)
2500+ tbred-b died, amd replaced it with a 2700+ tbred-b without even calling.
2500+ barton, died of heat due to retail an stoping from dust, 3200 chip arived 1.5 weeks after shiping usps.
3 apple bred durons died, due to heat thanks to retail fans cloging with dust(same company as the above chip, very dusty place, comps at the time where stored on the floor)
replaced with 3200+ chips because at the time amd was out of durons.
2800+ athlon64 newcastle, replaced with a 3200+ new castle, chip died when the board caps fryed, replacment chip was full retail pack and had a full 3 year warr.
this was a friends system with a CRAPPY asus matx board, the caps acctuly spewed black stuff then smokes and a couple exploded.......
my backup system chip, a 3000+ s754 newcastle that had alwase been a little querky croked one day(just stoped working) hadnt ever been overclocked or anything (board it was in wasnt overclock friendly it was a server class board) sent chip to amd, 1 week and 2 days later *ding dong* its the fed ex guy, omfg, its a 3700+ clawhammer(1mb cache, same core as the fx51), yes i was stoked.
now my exp with intel returnes.
1.4gz p4 retail chip(423) less then 1 year old, just stoped working one day, rmad the chip, no word for 2 weeks, called them, 45min being put on and off hold and transfered around b4 they tell me they dont have any 1.4gz 423 chips in stock and they may not get any more for some time if ever, the say that it may be a while befor they can send a new chip, i ask politly if they got a 1.6, 1.8 or 2.0 chip avalable, yes they had 1.8 and 2.0 chips but i had rma'd a 1.4.......so i finnly gave up after another 20min with the manager seein i wouldnt get anywhere at that rate.
a week later i called back this time i was not gonna take no for an answer, finnly got the same guy on the phone, he said that it looked like no more 1.4's would become avalable but he was trying to find us one, i finnly went a little postal/apeshit on his ass and thretened him with a call from a lawer(bluff) and he said he would send out a chip asap, 2 weeks later(tryed to call but was stuck on hold and left there every time) a chip arrives, a 1.6, not a retail chip like i sent back, this one was OEM and had no heatsink, the costmer was VERY sick of not having his pc back so i had to shell out 35bucks to get a cooler for it(out of my pocket mind you not the costmers).
2.4c p4 dead not sure why, costmer had payed a hefty price to buy the system decked out with intels reccomended parts.
got an rma, sent it over night usps, same kind hassle, they didnt have ANY 2.4's in and didnt know when they would be getting any, this time i knew what to do, 2 weeks later a chip arrives, a 2.4, but an older revision, costmer was pissed at me, then intel, ended up calling them himself, they said that they didnt have to send the same revision back as they recived just the same speed.and hung up on him, again the chip came OEM but this time i had the 3rd party cooler that the costmer had ordered witht he system(retail had been in the box i sent back)
and the worst one, my best buddy from school and DnD and everything else had build a "beast box"
3.4EE, 2gb ram, SLI 6800gt's, quad raptor raid the works
the board blew taking out EVERY PART IN THE BOX, it was an intel top of the line 350$ board, intel gave us the runaround for 4 weeks, finnly saying they wouldnt replace anything but the board and chip because they didnt feel it was their fault the board blew taking out his 1280$ video card system, and $800+ hdd config, well he was lucky endough that xfx took the cards back no question and wd replaced the dirves, the ram he had to rma to the store because corsair aasked to many questions, luckly he got the extended store replacment policy and they shiped the replacments to him over night.
but in the end he had to buy a new board/chip because intel took 8 weeks to get him his replacments, and then they didnt even send the right stuff the board was one model down and the cpu was a 3.4normal, he had to acctualy conntact a lawer and have them call intel to get the proper parts, intel made him ship the ones they tryed to screw him with back befor they sent the proper ones, again dispite getting a retail chip in rma they only sent the cpu back, luckly he had water cooling so it didnt matter much.
but in that time he replaced the board/chip with an athlon64 setup and the p4ee became his video recording/encoding/converting box.
so maby now you understand why i disslike how intel does buisness, how would you like to send in a say x6800retail with cooler and get a e6600 OEM back?, i bet you wold be pretty pissed
if intel starts to show they care about the costmers and value then then i will start to consider them as a good choice again as i did in the p3 days, but from my current experiance they couldnt care less.
and upgrade boards arent hacks to let older chips work on newer boards or newer chips sorta work on older boards, they add REAL CPU SUPPORT, you clearly cant see the diffrance, but with intels design it would be far harder to do the "upgrade board" due to everything being so closed and restricted and also everything being chipset based(chipset memory controlers suck)
if i missed some posts i will reply as time permits