Do you think PC gamers are being shafted lately?

[digibucc]

Lets be realistic ppl if more ppl actually bought the games instead of getting pirated copies it would help also.

that is such a lame argument. where people get the idea that a pirated copy is a lost sale , is beyond me. it doesn't make any rational sense.
of the people that WOULD purchase the game, I only see them going to pirated copies when a game is not released on time, or it has insane DRM. not that that justifies it, but it IS something the companies could easily rectify. Also, there are NO statistics backing up the claims that piracy hurts sales. there are many statistics backing up the other side.

obviously it's not, right. i like to give money for something i appreciate, I like to have a collection of games that I OWN. but it's a reason, and it is something, again, that the Pubs/Devs COULD do something about, if they weren't crying wolf.

the fact is there are simply not enough hardcore pc gamers to compete with the console crowd. it is lowest common denominator - and many of us complaining about the shafting (me included) have 1 or MORE consoles as well. we purchase those games too, a lot of us.

the point is, i have no idea what can be done. i simply don't know if there are enough of us to make an impact on the market. that is compounded by the fact that the BIGGEST Pc games purchasers are Russian and Asian .... communication, rallying, standing together - is much harder when you can't talk to each other.

 

[Taz100420]

See as to Mussels has said, they release crap games and they wont know till they buy it. I will d/l a game try it (only a few mins to a few hours into it to see if I like it) If I do like it, I will go out and buy the actual copy of it and play. If I dont like it, I will just uninstall and delete all traces of it. The demos of games just isnt enough. I have done this to most all my games after I bought Starshatter....NEVER again will I buy a game off the whim w/o much knowledge of it or cool commercials/packaging. Flame all ya guys want under ur breaths, its my way of saving money in this strapped economy.

Save the PC Gaming community!!!!!

 

[Fourstaff]

Lets be realistic ppl if more ppl actually bought the games instead of getting pirated copies it would help also. And why all this lets rebel stuff like rebelling against the guys that make the games is gonna work. Thats like all the hate mail Michael Atkinson gets doesnt help gamers cause one bit just makes us look as bad guys.

DRM and no resale value of most games drove me away from new purchases, no Lan gaming, the list goes on. I know someone who pirated L4D and was able to play it through lan and without steam, 2 big pluses. Still gaming on age old games, Warcraft 3:TFT, Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and so on. My internet has no connection to Steam and things like that, so I can only do Lan gaming.

 

[johnnyfiive]

The main thing PC's have going for them that consoles can't replicate are MMORG's. Thats the sad truth. Game dev's will keep making games for all platforms because thats how they make the most money. More money is needed for more games. More games are needed because the gaming community (Major platforms, 360/PS3/PC) is demanding and they want more games to play.

Think about the last 3 years. How many epic games have come out across all the major platforms? L4D 1 & 2, Boarderlands, Assassins Creed 1 & 2, Modern Warfare 1 & 2, Mass Effect 1 & 2 (PC and 360), Dead Space, GTA 4, I can name games all day.

The fact is, the console gaming community is what DRIVES THE GAMING DEVELOPMENT MARKET. It's the only way companies can get enough money to keep making the games WE ALL want to play. If the 360, PS3 and even the Wii didn't exist, I guarantee you we'd all be playing some sort of MMORPG or RTS game right now.

I blame Cliffy B. from EPIC games for making the statement that PC game was dying... i didn't know he was the lemming every game dev would follow.


"I think people would rather make a game that sells 4.5 million copies than a million and Gears is at 4.5 million right now on the 360," he said.

"I think the PC is just in disarray... What's driving the PC right now is Sims-type games and WoW and a lot of stuff that's in a web-based interface. You just click on it and play it. That's the direction PC is evolving into. So for me, the PC is kind of the secondary part of what we're doing. It's important for us, but right now making AAA games on consoles is where we're at." - Cliffy B. from Epic


Truth hurts, but I'm telling you guys, this is how things are and how they will continue to be. Game dev's make games for consoles first because thats how they get money BACK. There are way more console gamers in comparison to PC gamers. Its cheaper to buy a console and it doesn't require any troubleshooting knowledge to operate. Its only smart game dev's market to their products to the bigger buying market, console gaming. But this isn't entirely bad for us PC gamers, and I will tell you why in one sentence.

If game dev's didn't make millions due to console sales, they wouldn't be around.

So its a catch 22. We hate the "ported" games, but at least we have game titles on PC at all. They could really screw us and make all these games we've been playing for the last 3-4 years console exclusive. And don't think Blizzard and or Value are high and mighty and are only thinking of PC gamers (first). If WoW could run on a 360 or PS3, I'm sure Blizzard would make it happen, lol.

 

[Reefer86]

The thing that i hate is DLC, where has this come from ......... alot of DLC was all ready there in games but they then decide to take out parts of games, side story's and optional missions. which were available in older games. Now they take parts out of games and charge us for it, these are not add ons as such they are unlocked content, that we would have got for nothing pre current gen consoles. I hate DLC really annoys me that they do it, to me that is plain BS.

DLC does not add to a game, it takes stuff away from us and then sold back to us. I hate in reviews when they says o yeah and there will be DLC ......... erm we should of had that in the first place!

 

[johnnyfiive]

And where did DLC come from?

XBOX LIVE and Playstation Network

 

[FordGT90Concept]

There's plenty of PC-only developers releasing dozens of budget titles and also those pushing the envelope like GCS Game World.

It is very simple, there's over one billion computers in use in the world. Make a game for $20 that only half of those people buy and you're looking at $10,000,000,000 in potential revenue. The market is unquestionably there: the problem is finding the right product at the right price with the right availability.

 

[johnnyfiive]

Well yeah, FarmVille runs fine on anything and so do Flash and Java based games, but the big dev's are what I think people are talking about in this thread. EA, Valve, IW, id, Bethesda, BioWare, DICE, etc.

 

[erocker]

Consoles and computers have pretty much existed together for a couple decades now. How do you think PC users felt about Atari users? I don't see a problem only consistency. It is consistent that PC users like to bitch about consoles and vice-versa. Nothing has changed other than the market getting bigger. Both consoles and PC's have more software to use than ever before. The only people getting shafted are those who feel they are getting shafted. They aren't, but it's fun to think so.


I need the option: "I'm a gamer and I don't care, nor do I have a reason to."

 

[1Kurgan1]

I do think we are getting shafted, but not all for the same reasons, I could honestly careless about LAN on BC2, or most things since there are no LAN parties around here. But beyond that, yep, a lt of things have been consolized and it's nice to see a PC standout now and then.

And I agree with erocker, there is another poll option missing. There are some people mostly happy with how things are, I can't say I am completely, but for the most part I got what I want on PC.

 

[Fourstaff]

[/Sarcasm] I dont see why developers should be bothered to develop games for consoles, afterall, they design and make their games on PCs anyway. [sarcasm]

 

[bpgt64]

Obvious Answer

The problem is that software theft is on the rise; One way to prevent someone from playing on line is by removing any offline component of multiplayer. I believe in the future most games will go to a mini-WoW based model; with 2.00USD/month for online access. Just look at Sc2..or any other online game coming out. They need to reinvent the model for profitability sake.

 

[rampage]

shafted yes, it's a sad fact but its where the market is going, console, easy to code for devs, cheap to buy, easy for the end user to use... and look at pc's (in au$) roughly $2000 for a "gaming pc" a console (dont realy know) but what $500 ish.. even so its about 1/4 to 1/3rd of the price and of course thats where the dev's and end users are going to head.. sad but true, but honistly no matter no matter what us die hard pc gamers do consoles will win this battle, i think in the long run we will loose ..

its a sad world but $$$ dose make the world and i am sure if dev's could spend extra time on us pc gamers they would, but share holders want their profit each quater and sadly that lies with consoles

(but all that being said we can make out point known and delay this enavitable day of doom when pc gamers die in the shados of consoles (rember their competing GFX wise more and more with pc's then ever, it's just the interface that drages them down (contoles), damn these console gamers )

edit: please note i am a die hard pc gamer and hope i will be till the day i die and dont owen a console, but the market is the market

 

[bpgt64]

You make some good poings Rampage; There are obvious advantages to consoles;

Here's where I think gaming is heading. Dedicated gaming hardware, such as a console..However the addition of keyboard and mice support for consoles is on the horizon. I would hope it would be universally supported in the next gen of consoles.

 

[Steevo]

I haven't bought any of the games you listed for the reasons posted.


I will prefer to run a older game I have control over and mod it than pay $50 for a game that has only slightly better graphics and worse options.

 

[Champ]

I don't know how many of you guys have heard of the upcoming football game BackBreaker. I badly want this game and it isn't gonna be released for PC, so I had to buy a 360. I've had multiple failure will the 360 before and only one failure with my PC that was solved with a PSU upgrade. I really love the companies that make PC only games and games with requirements so high console would struggle to run them. That's the only thing keeping us from sinking.

 

[shevanel]

start a new website "approved by gamers" or someshit.. review games and stamp it with approval whenever it has that approval of your sites pc gaming community.

Compile a list of games past and preset, developer trends, habits fails and wins.

would be rediculous hard to accomplish though bec the average joe will buy any game if the commercial looks good regardless of the ratings or the games features

 

[Benetanegia]

Truth hurts, but I'm telling you guys, this is how things are and how they will continue to be. Game dev's make games for consoles first because thats how they get money BACK. There are way more console gamers in comparison to PC gamers. Its cheaper to buy a console and it doesn't require any troubleshooting knowledge to operate. Its only smart game dev's market to their products to the bigger buying market, console gaming. But this isn't entirely bad for us PC gamers, and I will tell you why in one sentence.

If game dev's didn't make millions due to console sales, they wouldn't be around.

That is absolutely false and that's what publishers want to make you/us believe. It's not about getting money back or having a sustained market or whatever way you want to look at it. It's only about making money, loads and loads of money.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation...ern-warfare-2-sales-nuke-all-previous-records

Let's break down the numbers. Modern Warfare 2 sold 4.7 million copies in the first 24 hours, earning $310 million. Those sales figures only count North America and the UK. Worldwide figures will roll in soon, snowballing well beyond the $155 million that box-office record-breaker "The Dark Knight" raked in during its opening weekend.

How can anyone justify what's happening to games based in ANY economic argument, when games that cost (way) less than $25 millions to make earn twice as much as movies that cost well in excess of $100-200 millions. You can't. There's simply no argument. There's no argument towards: "We have to abandon PC gaming because consoles is the only way to survive."

Half-Life sold 8 million copies, many other great PC games sold a lot too, Starcraft, Command&Conquer comes to mind. So it was a good selling platform. Even Half-Life 2 has sold tons of copies, but no one really knows how much because most of them were bought through Steam and statistics only show retail. It still sold 4 millions. More recently Crysis easily surpassed the million in this convoluted PC market. Crysis that could only run on 5% of PCs out there.

But now, those were GOOD games. And as the good games they were, they sold. It's the crappy console ports that don't sell. If you make a dumbed down console game and a crappy port to PC, you can't expect to sell on the PC. In no way the PC gaming community has abandoned PC gaming. It's the people making the games who have abandoned us, and not because that's the only thing they can do to survive as it shows the numbers I posted. It's really significant when one game's profit margins exceeds the movies profits in a 10 to 1 basis. There's no excuse.

Sorry for the rant.

EDIT: Note that my argument is not against console games. It's about making crappy PC ports with the excuse that it's not financially viable to make it a good port or even a slightly different -better for PC- game. When a game costs $25 million to make, and most of it comes from marketing and distribution expenses, you just can justify the lack of a proper port. You are going to earn $300 millions in the first weeked FFS!! Expend an extra of $5 millions and give everybody the game they deserve.

EDIT2: Revenues (I did just a quick search, you all are free to find other links):

Electronic Arts: http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=436876

Non-GAAP net revenue is expected to be $4.125 billion to $4.2 billion for fiscal year 2010 versus prior guidance of $4.2 billion to $4.4 billion.

Time Warner: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/time-warner-profits-beat_n_141373.html

Revenue was essentially flat at $11.71 billion, compared with $11.68 billion last year, and below analysts' expectations of $11.9 billion.

Doesn't anyone see something that is wrong here? Yeah, Time Wagner's is 3 times higher, but we are talking about Time Wagner!! They operate on films, TV, press... AND games!

Disney: http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-california-metro-areas/114780-1.html

Disney revenues were $1.3 billion, up 23 percent from $1 billion they year before. Net income was $174.4 million, up 18 percent.

Activision: http://www.edge-online.com/news/activision-profits-jump-sevenfold

Due to the delays, the publisher adjusted its revenue outlook for calendar 2009 down from $4.3 billion to $4.05 billion.

 

[shevanel]

so you are the 1 vote for here for No?

lol i do see your points though and they are probbaly valid. and at the end of the day its all about game makers.

 

[newtekie1]

I haven't really bothered to do much but skim the topic. So I'm just going to say what I think. The PC gamers are certainly not being shafted. We PC gamers were used to a higher standard that console games. However, due to many issues in the present world, what we have been given recently has been games that are essentially console games. I would say we are being shafted if we were getting worse quality games, but we aren't.

 

[MK4512]

Wow! 74 to 1!

I think that Console games are moving away from local multiplayer, which are the only freakin' reason I bought them in the first place!

Yeah, but no LAN support in CNC4 and Starcraft II?

Come on Blizzard (and to a lesser extent EA*), you know everyone is going to buy Starcraft anyways, why should you remove functionality?

*Because probably not everyone is going to buy CNC4, especially with all the cutting out of buildings. DAMN YOU STREAMLINING!

 

[Triprift]

that is such a lame argument. where people get the idea that a pirated copy is a lost sale , is beyond me. it doesn't make any rational sense.
of the people that WOULD purchase the game, I only see them going to pirated copies when a game is not released on time, or it has insane DRM. not that that justifies it, but it IS something the companies could easily rectify. Also, there are NO statistics backing up the claims that piracy hurts sales. there are many statistics backing up the other side.

obviously it's not, right. i like to give money for something i appreciate, I like to have a collection of games that I OWN. but it's a reason, and it is something, again, that the Pubs/Devs COULD do something about, if they weren't crying wolf.

the fact is there are simply not enough hardcore pc gamers to compete with the console crowd. it is lowest common denominator - and many of us complaining about the shafting (me included) have 1 or MORE consoles as well. we purchase those games too, a lot of us.

the point is, i have no idea what can be done. i simply don't know if there are enough of us to make an impact on the market. that is compounded by the fact that the BIGGEST Pc games purchasers are Russian and Asian .... communication, rallying, standing together - is much harder when you can't talk to each other.

Oh come on it has to have some impact there are ppl who will not buy the games full stop and only get pirated. Crumbs i had the shock of my life yesterday when i went past my local movie shop and noticed it was only a quarter of its original size. Now it could be other factors like not great service but my guess movie piracy would have an impact with it and there are others who have closed piracy does have an impact.

 

[Irish_PXzyan]

The only reason why PC gaming is sucking for me lately is because consoles is where the money is.
if pirating was not around then it would be the same as it was around 5-6 years ago.
Sure didn't MW2 get over 4+ million illegal downloads??

i don't even feel like buying new computer parts anymore either...there's no PC games out there that makes me want to spend cash.
Ive spent little on my PS3 and it's more fun on it.
Of course games are just better on it.. like Uncharted 2, MGS4, MAG and so on...I just don't see much effort being put into PC gamers anymore.

 

[kurosagi01]

my rant will be why the hell is crytek making crysis 2 for consoles now?? i hope they make it better for us PC gamers since it should of been a PC exclusive..i got feeling people going rant how awesome the consoles can play a game like crysis 2 so i think crysis 1 graphics probably going be better than 2.

I don't mind either console or PC gaming since i was a console gamer from start and have stuck with it for years now but since i got introduce into pc gaming my maturity you could say towards gaming is lot better on the PC where the community is better while you get 10 year old little boys ranting how good they are in games.

I get tons of crap about people talking about how awesome console is and they say how PC is crap because its too expensive?? the other day i just loled at my friend whos a sony PS3 fan when the PSN network got bugged he was ranting how if sony don't fix it they are going go bust i was thinking..LOL your a idiot Sony will never go bust since they are still making profit from other products and 360 is "catching" up to their sales..hasn't 360 got bigger sale than PS3 already?

I just bought all 3 current gens just for fact i can stay out of their damn argument war of which is better so i remain biased and i love what all 3 consoles bring for exclusive titles and theres my mid-range gaming PC where i feel proud and happy being on everyday.

Well anyways i think we PC gamers are just getting treated the same as console gamers now which i think sucks so i think we are geting shafted down.

 

[Triprift]

Theres always going to be bad games coming out on all platforms if you concentrate on them instead of the great titles then ofcourse youll think your being shafted.