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"Always On" DRM Idea gets more publishers.

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Easy Rhino

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Internet is based on servers. TPB, Demonoid etc. If they're taken out then piracy will drop to acceptable levels.

wait. you already said pirates will find a way around cracking DRM. you dont think they will find a new way to distribute their pirated goods?
 

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Internet is based on servers. TPB, Demonoid etc. If they're taken out then piracy will drop to acceptable levels.

Nations pick and choose what virtues they wish to follow under the guise of "civil rights" or the such. Shutting down torrents and such makes sense but it will NEVER happen.

wait. you already said pirates will find a way around cracking DRM. you dont think they will find a new way to distribute their pirated goods?

He just thinks it will reduce their capacity. Not stop them.
 
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Where you make better security, you will make a better criminal.

It's the same antic as idiot proofing... A better idiot will come to life.
 

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wait. you already said pirates will find a way around cracking DRM. you dont think they will find a new way to distribute their pirated goods?

Better than investing money in DRM which is essentially twiddling thumbs.

Nations pick and choose what virtues they wish to follow under the guise of "civil rights" or the such. Shutting down torrents and such makes sense but it will NEVER happen.

ISP's have began blocking such sites.
 
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copyright laws exist to protect companies from thieves. it grants the govt legal authority to levy fines and possibly jail time to those who infringe upon it.
I wish they would fight their battles in the courtroom instead on my hard drive.
I can't stand this kind of draconian DRM but neither will I resort to pirating to spite them for it.
 
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Yes. Stealing is illegal and the fine you are referring to is only in extreme cases. Thats the MAX penalty and I think it needs to be enforced more. If it was we would have WAY less pirating. Also DRM is on the box. Don't blame the publisher because you didn't read.

Not in extreme cases, the maximum penalty is always pursued by the prosecution. When you say steal I encourage you to look back at the cassette tape days. They used to play full albums over the radio for people to hear and they knew some people where recording it for home use. Did they ever think to prosecute? Nope. Have the music industries made progress through prosecuting those who pirate music? Nope, in fact the thing that makes their sales better is through selling a more convenient way to their customers like itunes and other services. Innovate your marketing and not your protection. Ever since Steam started nobody really pirates Valve titles like L4D, L4D2 Team Fortress since the prices are fair and it is convenient. Convenience and fair prices defeat piracy every single time. Some corporations are just out of touch with how to do business in the modern age of digital distribution.
 
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Piracy has always existed, people used to copy; floppies, tapes, CDs, video tapes, pirate DVDs; i think that DrPeppers argument that pirates will and still do pirate regardless is actually pretty accurate.

Pirates didn't cause DRM, companies and the availability of the internet did, DRM wasn't even as prevalent as before but piracy existed then.

I dont like DRM all it does it force people to use cracks and look to piracy as an alternative. Always on DRM does a pretty good job of stopping piracy for a while but even that can be overcome, it annoys the user even more because they have to be online all the time and register. Steam at least has a offline mode and its just activating a product code on that, downside is the game is forever linked to your account so no trading or such.

Command and conquer 4 uses "Always On" DRM and so does Settlers, thats 2 i can think off.

EDIT: Torrents have legal applications, you cant blame torrent sites blame the users, that blaming google for porn lol.
 
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in the end it is up to the consumer to decide what drm or piracy controls they feel are acceptable. only buy from publishers whom you agree with. it is really that simple. the more consumers boycott these types of controls the more the publishers will have to find a better way. but don't go giving the pirates a pass. they are the reason these controls exist.

You always remind me of Andrew Ryan with such faith in the market and Ayn Rand's philosophy. The market cannot always account for things. Why does the government regulate baseball? Why did they force consumer protections like seat belts to save lives? Why were tonics made illegal to claim that they cured illness? It is because the market cannot be trusted with everything and to self regulate when things run rampant. The government has to step in when people are being abused just like it does when corporations are being abused by pirates. It works both ways. Just because you are a corporation and own something or have tons of revenue doesn't mean you are god and have a right to impose unfair treatment on others. I believe it should be required to warn customers as most games actually are designed to work with all correspionding modern hardware and not requiring a constant internet connection. With digital distribution it makes more logical since because that is where it came from. But if it came from offline it should operate offline without a constant connection required. On time online activation is open to debate IMO as I find it tougher to call. Limited reinstall DRM should be banned as it is planned obsolescence.
 

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Not in extreme cases, the maximum penalty is always pursued by the prosecution. When you say steal I encourage you to look back at the cassette tape days. They used to play full albums over the radio for people to hear and they knew some people where recording it for home use. Did they ever think to prosecute? Nope. Have the music industries made progress through prosecuting those who pirate music? Nope, in fact the thing that makes their sales better is through selling a more convenient way to their customers like itunes and other services. Innovate your marketing and not your protection. Ever since Steam started nobody really pirates Valve titles like L4D, L4D2 Team Fortress since the prices are fair and it is convenient. Convenience and fair prices defeat piracy every single time. Some corporations are just out of touch with how to do business in the modern age of digital distribution.

Yeah that worked out real well for MW2. :rolleyes:

You always remind me of Andrew Ryan with such faith in the market and Ayn Rand's philosophy. The market cannot always account for things. Why does the government regulate baseball? Why did they force consumer protections like seat belts to save lives? Why were tonics made illegal to claim that they cured illness? It is because the market cannot be trusted with everything and to self regulate when things run rampant. The government has to step in when people are being abused just like it does when corporations are being abused by pirates. It works both ways. Just because you are a corporation and own something or have tons of revenue doesn't mean you are god and have a right to impose unfair treatment on others. I believe it should be required to warn customers as most games actually are designed to work with all correspionding modern hardware and not requiring a constant internet connection. With digital distribution it makes more logical since because that is where it came from. But if it came from offline it should operate offline without a constant connection required. On time online activation is open to debate IMO as I find it tougher to call. Limited reinstall DRM should be banned as it is planned obsolescence.
So you think the goverment should control DRM? Please. So now video game companies are the same as snake oil salesmen? Come on man lets be realistic. Video game companies sells digital entertainment and as such the regulation needed should be to that of anti-trust and copyright. The goverment has no right or place in this area other then to enforce standing laws. The market is more than capable to correct anything else.
 
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Yeah that worked out real well for MW2. :rolleyes:

With enough marketing hype and paid off reviewers through buying ads on sites you can do amazing things but that is fine. If they pulled off a large marketing campaign and made money then good for them. I didn't say people have to make good games. I just think when there is abuse of the customer, civil rights are violated, or punishments are unfair I think things should be changed.
 

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With enough marketing hype and paid off reviewers through buying ads on sites you can do amazing things but that is fine. If they pulled off a large marketing campaign and made money then good for them. I didn't say people have to make good games. I just think when there is abuse of the customer, civil rights are violated, or punishments are unfair I think things should be changed.

Civil rights? ITS VIDEO GAMES.
 
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1.Yeah that worked out real well for MW2. :rolleyes:

2. So you think the goverment should control DRM? Please. So now video game companies are the same as snake oil salesmen? Come on man lets be realistic. Video game companies sells digital entertainment and as such the regulation needed should be to that of anti-trust and copyright. The goverment has no right or place in this area other then to enforce standing laws. The market is more than capable to correct anything else.

1. Yes, MW2 used marketing and did well. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you are referring to. Perhaps you should explain yourself?

2. Yes, anything that becomes intrusive in your life and you have no way of defending yourself from the government is open to protect you. Read my full post again please and you might see what I was saying more clearly. There may be some miscommunication going on. When you say Anti-trust and copyright you are speaking of protections of only the corporations. Do you believe to as individuals we deserve no porotection from corporations? That is what you statement implied with your statement.

The market is more than capable to correct anything else.

I am just saying if things go too far we should have the government to protect the rights of the individuals. There is a variety of DRM that limits products to the point of it being unuseable which is false advertising to sell a broken product. Would the market fairy fix it if the place of business requires a restocking fee to accept the product back because you opened it like Best Buy and others?

Civil rights? ITS VIDEO GAMES.

I was speaking in generalities as I refered to government interventions and its uses in a previous post. LEARN TO READ? :laugh:

I gotta go now, but fun chatting with everybody. :)
 

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Better than investing money in DRM which is essentially twiddling thumbs.



ISP's have began blocking such sites.

investing money in DRM is a lot cheaper than filing lawsuits and chasing down spook pirates.
 

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:confused: are you on the payroll of a publisher? You act like someone who is.

are you a pirate and condone theft? you act like someone who is :confused:
 

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are you a pirate and condone theft? you act like someone who is :confused:

Nope :toast: and for the 10932759032159823659236592365923864th time its not theft, the courts around the world have been convinced its copyright infringement.
 

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Nope :toast: and for the 10932759032159823659236592365923864th time its not theft, the courts around the world have been convinced its copyright infringement.

that is a legal term for digital theft. if it makes you feel better that you are infringing on somebody's property rather than stealing it you must have some real moral dilemmas on your hands.
 

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1. Yes, MW2 used marketing and did well. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you are referring to. Perhaps you should explain yourself?

2. Yes, anything that becomes intrusive in your life and you have no way of defending yourself from the government is open to protect you. Read my full post again please and you might see what I was saying more clearly. There may be some miscommunication going on. When you say Anti-trust and copyright you are speaking of protections of only the corporations. Do you believe to as individuals we deserve no porotection from corporations? That is what you statement implied with your statement.
Anti-trust and copyright are also there to protect the individual. Copyright laws apply to everything I do in my professional life and I am far from a "evil" corporation. Also don't think anti-trust law protect the little guy and only big corporations? Try telling that to the little guys that were against Standard oil. If it wasn't for those laws their would be no fair competition and thus no fair prices for the consumer.

I am just saying if things go too far we should have the government to protect the rights of the individuals. There is a variety of DRM that limits products to the point of it being unuseable which is false advertising to sell a broken product. Would the market fairy fix it if the place of business requires a restocking fee to accept the product back because you opened it like Best Buy and others?
Games are not a necessity to survive. You won't die if you stop gaming. If you do not agree on the license agreement then do not buy the games. Problem solved. What you fail to understand is you NEVER OWN the game. You buy a licenses to use it how the OWNER of the propriety sees fit. No more. No less. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

:confused: are you on the payroll of a publisher? You act like someone who is.

No I'm an artist who makes his money via copyrights. Every time someone uses my art without my permission they take food out of my families mouth.
 

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that is a legal term for digital theft. if it makes you feel better that you are infringing on somebody's property rather than stealing it you must have some real moral dilemmas on your hands.

so its theft in practice but "copyright infringement" when its time for the claims to be filed....:rolleyes:

I vote this thread just gets deleted cause this is never going to end and nothing good is going to come out of it...but hey thats just me
 

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so its theft in practice but "copyright infringement" when its time for the claims to be filed....:rolleyes:

yes. copyright infringement gives the government legal authority to levy fines and jail time if necessary. it means the same thing as stealing it just covers a different medium.

I vote this thread just gets deleted cause this is never going to end and nothing good is going to come out of it...but hey thats just me

it is a good discussion going on. if it gets crazy i will close it. so far nobody has called names or trolled which is a new record!
 

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yes. copyright infringement gives the government legal authority to levy fines and jail time if necessary. it means the same thing as stealing it just covers a different medium.

ahh but the difference is theft is not that big of a deal, yea you might get a little jail time and maybe a little fine with some community service with probation? But copyright infringement?? get ready for jail time with utterly massive fines somewhere around maybe literally 5000 times the worth of the product.

You know what i see in that?

You steal from a person, you get some jail time and a small fine
You steal from a corporation, you get jail time and life ruining fines

....but hey what do i know :rolleyes:
 

Easy Rhino

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ahh but the difference is theft is not that big of a deal, yea you might get a little jail time and maybe a little fine with some community service with probation? But copyright infringement?? get ready for jail time with utterly massive fines somewhere around maybe litterly 5000 times the worth of the product.

You know what i see in that?

You steal from a person, you get some jail time and a small fine
You steal from a corporation, you get jail time and life ruining fines

....but hey what do i know :rolleyes:

i agree with you that the rulings have been harsh and a lot of that has to do with judges who are not tech savvy. that will change over time. but the point remains that both are morally considered theft.
 
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Also DRM is on the box.

Dude, you just gave me an idea.

Say publishers distributed a cheap hardware thingy (possibly containing a serial number) that connected to the computer, and the game would only run if it was connected?

I mean the idea's not fully developed or anything and most good pirates are also good with electronics and whatnot, and simply removing whatever checks to see if it's connected wouldn't be too hard for a good hacker, but it could work. No internet required, no excruciatingly slow calls through the internet slowing down your computer, all is slightly better.
 

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Dude, you just gave me an idea.

Say publishers distributed a cheap hardware thingy (possibly containing a serial number) that connected to the computer, and the game would only run if it was connected?

I mean the idea's not fully developed or anything and most good pirates are also good with electronics and whatnot, and simply removing whatever checks to see if it's connected wouldn't be too hard for a good hacker, but it could work. No internet required, no excruciatingly slow calls through the internet slowing down your computer, all is slightly better.

Its called a dongle and its been around for years.
 

Easy Rhino

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Dude, you just gave me an idea.

Say publishers distributed a cheap hardware thingy (possibly containing a serial number) that connected to the computer, and the game would only run if it was connected?

I mean the idea's not fully developed or anything and most good pirates are also good with electronics and whatnot, and simply removing whatever checks to see if it's connected wouldn't be too hard for a good hacker, but it could work. No internet required, no excruciatingly slow calls through the internet slowing down your computer, all is slightly better.

it is called a dongle.
 
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