HTML5 vs. Flash

[TheMailMan78]

I talked to a Apple tech this past week and I asked him "Why isn't Apple supporting Flash in their new products (ipad / iphone). He replied "Apple isn't bothering with Flash or Silverlight because its old tech and will be replaced with HTML5 very soon."

Now this may be true but by the time the web switches over to HTML5 those very same Apple devices will be out of date IMO.

With all that being said what do you guys think? Do you think HTML5 will replace (RIA) technologies like Flash? Or do you think they will evolve and not including them in your browser is a bad move.

Just to be clear this is NOT a Apple bashing thread. I just would like to hear back from the community on the basic question. HTML5 vs. apps like Flash.

 

[Triprift]

I must admit im not a big fan of flash as it has great habit of crashing my browser and also i think its a resouce hog. If HTML5 can improve on that then im all for it.

Also seen this earlier MailMan.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Its funny because I have never had an issue with Flash. Honestly I thought Apple was banning flash because of whole Adobe not supprting 64-bit on OSX in CS4 and Lightroom vs Photoshop.

 

[Oliver_FF]

Flash was developed a long time ago when HTML, Javascript and CSS were basic, slow and hard to use. Nowadays you can get the same functionality by using the technologies supported straight out of a web browser instead of having to rely on a third party plugin and development suite. What more needs to be said?

Do a comparison yourself - two gaming websites one uses HTML one uses Flash.
http://uk.pc.ign.com/ (HTML top banner)
http://uk.gamespot.com/ (Flash top banner)

 

[TheMailMan78]

Flash was developed a long time ago when HTML, Javascript and CSS were basic, slow and hard to use. Nowadays you can get the same functionality by using the technologies supported straight out of a web browser instead of having to rely on a third party plugin and development suite. What more needs to be said?

Do a comparison yourself - two gaming websites one uses HTML one uses Flash.
http://uk.pc.ign.com/ (HTML top banner)
http://uk.gamespot.com/ (Flash top banner)

Um the flash is much nicer?

 

[Oliver_FF]

Um the flash is much nicer?

1. if I roll my mouse up and down over the news items my CPU usage hits 100%...
2. you can't "open in new tab" any interesting articles
3. the HTML page will load and work on -any- computer/device with a web browser

 

[TheMailMan78]

1. if I roll my mouse up and down over the news items my CPU usage hits 100%...
2. you can't "open in new tab" any interesting articles
3. the HTML page will load and work on -any- computer/device with a web browser

Mine doesnt go past 10%.

 

[Oliver_FF]

thats because whilst Flash is 'open' it is Adobe who develop the browser plugins - the Linux plugin is horribly inefficient. if you had a mobile device and wanted guarantee's that the end user experience is going to be awesome would you really want dependence on a third party? don't forget the efficiency of the plugin is going to directly impact things like battery life!

 

[lemode]

i spent the better part of a decade learning flash and its outdated...lol

 

[FordGT90Concept]

There was a falling out between Adobe (maker of Flash) and Apple. Apple is trying to push HTML5 instead (which isn't even official yet). HTML5 won't become via until at least 2012 (CPU Mag). The likelihood of something like Flash or Silverlight appearing in the final specifications are slim (too complex to implement on the browser level).

Apple is basically spinning it so the public doesn't get pissed at them (they get pissed at Adobe instead).

 

[DaMulta]

everything uses flash, and apple is just being dumb about it.

Really it really is like Apple saying HD-DVD is what everyone will end up using. When really it's Blue-Ray, and everyone already knows about it.

Studios that have already spent massive amounts of money having their TV shows/Clips/Moives already converted into flash. Which workds on EVERYTHING, but the Iphone/Ipad.

You really think that compaines are going to spend the small fourtune to convert them all? Yet, do you think Apple will do it for everyone for free?


They need to open their eyes, and then move on with what everyone uses.

 

[regexorcist]

Adobe FLASH is old news and so is any proprietary
format, used on the web, in this day and age.
Open up or the market will use something else.

Adobe was arrogant to keep FLASH closed as long
as they did and not port it the BSD platform.
The demise of FLASH is lonnngggg overdue.

HTML5, canvas object, webGL, javascript, etc...
This is the future!!!

 

[Solaris17]

Why is flashes demise reliant on BSD? Far to little people even use that platform. Or know it exists.

 

[TheLaughingMan]

I think HTML5 with make video hosting much easier on the users. Since the code is embedded it is hosted on their end. This removes the need for specialized plugins or much overhead on your computer to view the video feed; however, I am not complete clear on all HTML5 is offering. Flash has one important feature that would need to be reproduced to kill it, interactivity. The fact their are complete games made in just flash that you can go online and play is a big deal. If you cannot do the same with HTML5, Flash will be around for a while.

I personal never have any issues with Flash or its plugins, except that mess when I found out the IE/Windows Flash plugin is different from the Opera/Firefox/all other browsers plugin.

I am curious to see what happens as Flash 11 should have hardware acceleration from the GPU. That will take the workload off the CPU and give them access to a massive amount of rendering power. Flash could evolve into something far, far more powerful, efficient, and desirable.

 

[regexorcist]

Adobe FLASH is old news and so is any proprietary
format, used on the web, in this day and age.
Open up or the market will use something else.

Adobe was arrogant to keep FLASH closed as long
as they did and not port it the BSD platform.
The demise of FLASH is lonnngggg overdue.

HTML5, canvas object, webGL, javascript, etc...
This is the future!!!

Why is flashes demise reliant on BSD? Far to little people even use that platform. Or know it exists.

The demise of FLASH is long overdue, but it has nothing to do with BSD.

Adobe was arrogant to ignore BSD when porting the the FLASH player.

 

[DrPepper]

I like flash tbh. Apple should bite the bullet and go with flash. Eventually any problem with it will be fixed in time.

 

[Solaris17]

i agree that HTML should be better than flash. but why was adobe arrogant to not port to BSD? BSD doesnt have that much weight.

 

[Bot]

i think HTML5 will be the true web2.0
it will do and allow a lot more creativity for webpages and makes being creative easier.
a lot of things about HTML5 were discussed at Google's I/O conf.

i am not a fan of flash and even less so of apple. i could live with neither.
adobe has long disappointed me by not supporting x64 bit and it's performance and reliability is very inconsistent. unless there is true improvement in the platform there is really no point to continuing with it.

i hope HTML5 will be implemented a lot sooner then it is officially slated for.

 

[Solaris17]

i think HTML5 will be the true web2.0
it will do and allow a lot more creativity for webpages and makes being creative easier.
a lot of things about HTML5 were discussed at Google's I/O conf.

i am not a fan of flash and even less so of apple. i could live with neither.
adobe has long disappointed me by not support x64 bit and it's performance and reliability is very inconsistent. unless there is true improvement in the platform there is really no point to continuing with it.

i hope HTML5 will be implemented a lot sooner then it is officially slated for.

well said some of the tech demos etc are incredibly impressive it seems very flexible.

 

[regexorcist]

Adobe FLASH was very important and I feel it was an
arrogant business decision to not put the resources needed
into porting FLASH to BSD, because there are not that many users
(or enough to matter). It has been requested for years.

Similar to a big important cable company not running lines for high speed
internet access into a rural area or location, because there
aren't that many people, so why bother running all that line.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The inventor of the Internet said there's no web <version number>. The web is the web which is a conglomerate of many standards and protocols, each with their own iteration (HTML 4.01, XHTML 1.0, CSS, HTTP, HTTPS, SSL, and virtually everything else that uses a custom socket protocol).

Again, I stress that HTML5 spec is not finalized. It's pretty much guaranteed to have a video codec built in but it is undecided which one. It also has the canvas element as previously mentioned. Everything else is purely speculation.


Remember, Adobe bought Flash thorugh Macrovision. Macrovision didn't support BSD so why would Adobe? There's far more potential users for 64-bit browsers than BSD. They supported neither.

 

[TheLaughingMan]

Well they did announce the video codec will support HD content now using something like the H.264 but open and free of licensing fees.

 

[twilyth]

If you are a flash developer, does the sdk or whatever cost anything? If it does, I think you will see people develop and publish using html5 and then using a cheap utility to convert to flash for non-html5 compliant browsers.

Apple is a whole other issue. With their censoring of magazine content for pubs that want to be available on the ipad, the ipad version has become know as the Iran edition. That should be enough to piss off even some of the Apple faithful.

We'll see how it goes when the first wave of tablets comes out in a few months - with flash support and no censorship.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Well they did announce the video codec will support HD content now using something like the H.264 but open and free of licensing fees.

They haven't decided between H.264 and VP8. This is the official site for the developement of HTML5:
http://www.whatwg.org/

Here's the element that will call the codec:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#video

 

[TheLaughingMan]

They haven't decided between H.264 and VP8. This is the official site for the developement of HTML5:
http://www.whatwg.org/

Here's the element that will call the codec:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#video

http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-December/013152.html
|
V

"we need a codec that is known to not require per-unit or per-distributor licensing, that is compatible with the open source development model, that is of sufficient quality as to be usable, and that is not an additional submarine patent risk for large companies."

If this statement is true, H.264 is going to have to go because that is a licensed container that does not comply with open source development. I just thought that I read somewhere that H.264 was already off the table.