Elder Scrolls V SKYRIM !! 11-11-11

[Benetanegia]

Really, people give DirectX too much importance. It's just an API and does not dictate 100% (not even 60%) how a game will look. Like any API it's there to help make things easier but you could make a game without using any DX version at all, it would just cost more*. In any case every single game developed for the PC has parts that are made using DX features and parts coded directly on HLSL, Cg and whatnot. There's many things a certain DX version cannot make, not even DX11 and that developers really want or need, or want or need in an specific way that DX cannot handle and so they code it themselves and in the end it's the mix what we get. AAA titles have more "custom made" parts and a little less DX and lazy developers just use DX without even tweaking it which is what spawns the miriad of generic looking games that populate the mediocre group of average games.

* Although there's some people who, from an academic standpoint, actually think that the use of APIs like DX or OpenGL is detrimental to the efficiency and quickness to release of an AAA title or a title that pushes the graphics limits even further. Basically their instance is that such titles often require more time to optimize the code than to actually write it and test it and hence writing closer to the ISA would/could allow a faster development (because it would not require as much optimization time to obtain the same quality/performace relation), plus better performance and set of features to begin with.

 

[TheMailMan78]

wow man you are replying to a 6 monh old post? lol

I think that that Skyrim does not use id tech is well known since page 3 on these thread or so. It would have been better if they used id tech though (IMO), as a renderer at least, especially since id has worked so much in order to make id tech 5 so good for open environments (while still mantaining the excellence in interiors and shader/lighting).

Also I do know that Zenimax is the parent company, back at the time when I wrote that I was not sure if Bethesda Soft. itself had "acquired" id software. And TBH it's all semantics, since ZeniMax Media was founded by Christopher Weaver who also founded Bethesda Soft (primarily to produce Morrowind and future Bethesda games) and Zenimax's current Executive producer Todd Howard is also the Game Director in charge of latest Fallout and TES games, employed for these tasks by Bethesda instead by parent company, so in the end it's all the same.

Either way, even if they were trully just 2 different developers owned by a 3rd party (completely unrelated with either of them) they could still get access to id tech if that's what they wanted, being under the same hood... like how there's a lot of tech sharing by game developers under EA.

PS: I said "acquired" because they retain 100% independence on making their own games the game they want to, no deadlines, etc. They are independent except in the bussiness side and I'm sure even there they still mantain many advantages and perks that usual non_independent devs don't get.

My trolling doesn't have a statute of limitations.

 

[Mussels]

I am kinda surprised that you can get so much out of DX9, kinda makes me wonder why the frig we have DX11 when DX9 is still looking pretty good...


Hopefully anticipating this game.

because DX9 has memory limitations, single threaded, no tesselation (which was designed to BOOST performance, when used properly) and probably half a dozen things i cant remember right now.


DX11 craps all over DX9, its just that they stuck with the older engine this time around for convenience. probably since theres console versions of it.

 

[hellrazor]

Well, graphics-wise all they need to do is make swords look sharper (I'm looking at you, iron short sword), have more diversity, and make caves look like they're not made out of plastic and I'll be happy.

Gameplay-wise, on the other hand, there is a lot of work to be done.

 

[AphexDreamer]

I like the way the new leveling up sounds. It seems better to be rewarded for what you do and not be limited to a set amount of spells just cause you picked only Destruction and Restoration.

 

[digibucc]

I like the way the new leveling up sounds. It seems better to be rewarded for what you do and not be limited to a set amount of spells just cause you picked only Destruction and Restoration.

yeah but they went from 27 in morrowind, to 21 in oblivion, to 18 in skyrim.

it rewards you for what you use, but gives you less to use.

 

[left4lol]

because DX9 has memory limitations, single threaded, no tesselation (which was designed to BOOST performance, when used properly) and probably half a dozen things i cant remember right now.


DX11 craps all over DX9, its just that they stuck with the older engine this time around for convenience. probably since theres console versions of it.

What do you mean single threaded there's a lot of DX 9 game that support multithread ? .

 

[Mussels]

What do you mean single threaded there's a lot of DX 9 game that support multithread ? .

just because the game is multi threaded, doesnt mean the graphical engine is.

 

[AphexDreamer]

yeah but they went from 27 in morrowind, to 21 in oblivion, to 18 in skyrim.

it rewards you for what you use, but gives you less to use.

Oh I didn't know that, heck I didn't even notice and I've played both Morrowind and Oblivion. Although providing less of something does seem bad, this could make things better. I'll know how I feel about once I play.

 

[TheMailMan78]

just because the game is multi threaded, doesnt mean the graphical engine is.

As far as I know only DX11 is multi threaded.

 

[T3kl0rd]

I haven't seen a DX11 game run more efficiently than a DX9 game yet. This also was a factor, developers haven't figured out how to optimize in DX11 yet.

 

[hellrazor]

Stop worrying people, if the game is good somebody will eventually come out with a DX11/12 mod with extra features (akin to MGE). You might have to wait a little while, but whatever.

And if it's total crap, you aren't gonna worry about it anyways because it's crap. Doesn't matter what DX version it's using.

 

[T3kl0rd]

Stop worrying people, if the game is good somebody will eventually come out with a DX11/12 mod with extra features (akin to MGE). You might have to wait a little while, but whatever.

And if it's total crap, you aren't gonna worry about it anyways because it's crap. Doesn't matter what DX version it's using.

Todd Howard is quoted as considering a DX11 patch a la Crysis 2 DX11 patch.

Seriously doubt this will be crap. Looks like one of the all time greats. People consider the last two ES games among the all time greats. This thread wouldn't be as long as it is on a prereleased game if the series was crap.

 

[digibucc]

Todd Howard is quoted as considering a DX11 patch a la Crysis 2 DX11 patch.

Seriously doubt this will be crap. Looks like one of the all time greats. People consider the last two ES games among the all time greats. This thread wouldn't be as long as it is on a prereleased game if the series was crap.

i consider morrowind one of the greats. oblivion was entirely disappointing, the game was re-geared for casual, younger players and it in turn made it much less enjoyable to those who want true deep gameplay, such as morrowind had.
skyrim looks to be following that trend.
many people, including me - LOVE elder scrolls. that doesn't mean we are so naive as to think every elder scrolls game released will be good.

as for a dx 11 patch, no thanks. either give it on release or not at all. im not going to wait to play or worse replay a game just to get some features that in all honesty should have been included in the first place.

 

[Benetanegia]

as for a dx 11 patch, no thanks. either give it on release or not at all. im not going to wait to play or worse replay a game just to get some features that in all honesty should have been included in the first place.

I don't think that's a real problem for real TES fans. If it's anything like the previous ones, I'm going to replay the game, period. Several times.

If the second play through has DX11 and hopefully many community made enhancements, then better.

In all honesty, if there's one game where I don't care about the graphics being cutting edge (technically) is the next TES game, because I know it will have very beautiful landscapes and and excellent art direction and that's all I require of a game with the capability of immersion that TES series has. Graphics are for immersion, better graphics == better immersion, but TES games achieve the immersion by other (better) means and it pwns any other franchise in that department IMO so good graphics are just a plus.

In FPS' considering the hollow experience they have become over the years (maybe thanks to consolization), yes, give me excellent graphics and excellent music and excellent physics, because that's all you offer (except few rare exceptions like Portal 2, THANK YOU VALVE).

 

[left4lol]

I don't think that's a real problem for real TES fans. If it's anything like the previous ones, I'm going to replay the game, period. Several times.

If the second play through has DX11 and hopefully many community made enhancements, then better.

In all honesty, if there's one game where I don't care about the graphics being cutting edge (technically) is the next TES game, because I know it will have very beautiful landscapes and and excellent art direction and that's all I require of a game with the capability of immersion that TES series has. Graphics are for immersion, better graphics == better immersion, but TES games achieve the immersion by other (better) means and it pwns any other franchise in that department IMO so good graphics are just a plus.

In FPS' considering the hollow experience they have become over the years (maybe thanks to consolization), yes, give me excellent graphics and excellent music and excellent physics, because that's all you offer (except few rare exceptions like Portal 2, THANK YOU VALVE).

Huh, I might agree about this if it weren't for Oblivion, facing regular bandit equipped glass armor is hardly what i would call immersive .
I still think Oblivion is a great game though, it just need bunch of mod to achieve it .

 

[Kreij]

I really like Oblivion. Only three things really annoyed me.
The GUI was to big and required to much clicking as such to scroll (fixed with a mod).
The overdone level scaling of mobs (fixed with mod)
The stupid arrows on the map which showed exactly how to get somewhere (turned off).

I like Morrowind more for it's more surreal feeling. You definitely get the feeling that you're "not in Kansas anymore."
The Shivering Isles expansion was more surreal, but it was just not the same.

I do like that fact that in the ES games you can do everything and be everything regardless of the class and race you chose. In MMOs that leads to a whole boatload of clone characters in the end game, but works just fine in SP.

 

[digibucc]

I don't think that's a real problem for real TES fans.

well thanks for that, but you're missing the point.
I played and beat morrowind more than 4 times. I didn't bother finishing Oblivion.

a REAL TES fan would recognize that they have been slumping in quality.
see how stupid it is to make a comment like that?

my point was that though i may do it for pure enjoyment, i would not do it
simply to see dx11 effects that should have been included in the first place.
in fact, that was one mention in a post otherwise talking about gameplay alone,
with no regards to graphics. I like morrowind more, despite it having "worse" graphics.

so not only do you miss my point, you dismiss my opinions as i am not, a REAL fan? nice.

Oblivion was dumbed down. there is no other way to put it. Morrowind did not appeal to
a large enough audience (only to REAL fans) , so they made the new one simpler, prettier,
and easier. It holds no depth and the replay value was a fraction of Morrowinds', and I am
willing to bet skyrim will follow suit.

and note: i've already pre-ordered. It will be better than two worlds 2, gothic 4, etc.
it just won't be as good as Elder Scrolls SHOULD be.

 

[Mussels]

oblivion slumped, but then look what they did with fallout 3 and new vegas. they fixed many of oblivions complaints perfectly - the mobs level properly now, combat was greatly improved.

when TESV comes out, they'll have learned more. could it be a shit console port? yes. but it COULD also be better than what we've had before.

 

[digibucc]

when TESV comes out, they'll have learned more. could it be a shit console port? yes. but it COULD also be better than what we've had before.

fair enough, that's a good argument. I have reason to be hopeful now

 

[Kreij]

The ES teams have always been receptive to user feedback, that is one of the reasons for the balancing act they tried to do in Oblivion (to the dislike by the hard core fans).
As Mussles said, they took this to heart in their next games and are still improving.

I don't care if they dumb it down for fans who like that, just let me have the option(s) to smarten it back up for myself if I want to do so.
I prefer RPGs to be a challenge ... a "real" challenge.
Things like ...
Difficulty level = unicorns and rainbows, normal, make me cry like a school girl.
World Map and Mini-Map = normal, vague, totally blind.
Loot = dragon horde in every dungeon, normal, make your own crybaby
NPC reactions = loved by all, normal, even your friends hate your guts.

You get the gist ...

 

[digibucc]

The ES teams have always been receptive to user feedback, that is one of the reasons for the balancing act they tried to do in Oblivion (to the dislike by the hard core fans).

You get the gist ...

really though.. i think i skipped over that very very important part. they are receptive to feedback, and fallout was definitely an improvement of oblivion's mechanics in my mind.

and agreed... the system should be built on a scale, allowing the user to fine tune their experience. I recognize this has to be more work, but it is so much more rewarding.

 

[BumbleBee]

I hope they improve the combat system because it was pretty terrible in Oblivion lol

 

[TheLaughingMan]

Its more dynamic and more stylish, but the core system is the same. The combat system in Oblivion was terrible, it was bland (fixed with a mod). I think they fixed that issue.

 

[AphexDreamer]

I've loved Morrowind and Oblivion. They both had their ups and downs. Morrowind had an irreplaceable feel to it that just made the game amazing and oblivion had some pretty sick graphics.

As much as I loved Morrowind after playing Oblivion I just couldn't go back. I waited for the Morroblivion mod but they never finished it (No quests).

This looks promising. I hope it gets released with with DX11 but it doesn't really matter cause TES are games I'll play time and time again. As long as it get DX11 at some point, I'd hate to see it with out it.