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Microsoft unveils "Windows 8"

Easy Rhino

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Time to start demanding choice in operating systems. I don't mean just linux either.

demand a choice in operating systems? do explain...
 
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If this rate keeps up, I'm probably going to be a hardcore LXDE convert.

There i corrected that for you although LXDE i dont think is anywhere near as supported as XFCE is.

Secondly i want to know where it says for definite this is the REAL next PC version of Windows. You are all unfairly judging this exactly like i said before in this thread. I don't want a tablet UI on my PC because it doesn't work but im not bashing this OS until I've seen it and its confirmed its definitely having all those tablet features in the PC version.

With all the jumping to conclusions it reminds me of this quote... "This firm requires no physical-fitness program. Everyone gets enough exercise jumping to conclusions, flying of the handle, running down the boss, flogging dead horses, knifing friends in the back, dodging responsibility and pushing their luck."

EDIT:
Time to start demanding choice in operating systems. I don't mean just linux either.

I dont understand either because there are plenty of choices for operating systems for example: BSD, Linux, Unix and Mac OS... Hell even Amiga OS for PPC.
 
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The touch screen + media capable interfaces are not Microsoft's way of fucking with everybody. It is a industry trend. Industry...trend. Everybody is doing it. It works. It has worked since Zune. It is simple, it does not require explanation.
Last time I checked, Zune was heading towards a footnote in history. Again, clone successes, not failures.


My grandfather can swipe his finger and see the weather. Done. I assume the PC can wake from a swipe, seems reasonable.
Touch screens aren't practical for most computer applications. If people really wanted a touch screen, they'd buy a tablet PC with Windows Mobile on it. The reason why is quite simple: a 1" gesture on a mouse is 24 times faster than a 1" gesture on a 24" monitor. Computers are all about efficiency of the operator and when you got a mouse, touch screens simply don't make sense.


Right now, he has to turn the PC on, wait, log in, wait, double click firefox 12 times, wait, search for google in the google adress bar on his homepage, type in accuweather, wait, type in his zip code, wait, etc etc. I tried putting apps in his sidebar, but as soon as they pop up with a notification or "please update adobe" he considers it broken, and walks away. He can't use computers. People can't use computers.
PEOPLE NEED THIS UI.
I put a computer together not too long ago for my sister's mother-in-law (~60 years old). She's never used a computer and, with a little direction, she figured it out pretty quick. If they design computers around "idiots," they're going to alienate the hundreds of millions of users that aren't "idiots" (their most reliable customers).


Oh, and businesses still very much shape Windows. They make up a huge share of Windows purchasers. I imagine they'll be selling a Windows 8 Business version that has most of the new Windows 8 features disabled/removed.

If anything, Microsoft should start marketing a tablet specific version of Windows and leave the core Windows product alone. A desktop OS isn't going to be able to compete with mobile-targetted Android and iPad OS and a tablet OS isn't going to be able to compete with Chrome OS, Mac OS X, or *nix.

What concerns me the most is Microsoft doesn't like to maintain "legacy" UIs for long. If they make tablet UIs standard for the desktop OS, the legacy desktop UI will be phased out in less than 5 years. I can see that as only spelling disaster for Microsoft.
 
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I still vote for seperate "editions" for tablets, HTPCs, and PCs. I don't want one "super edition" with too much bloatware.

I think they should have the following editions:

Normal builds:
Performance editon (like the current windows 7 but highly trimmed down and optimized for gaming and hi-demand applications) (no metro UI interface,uses windows 7 look but improved in a more professional look) (just like the professional edition of windows 7)
Normal home edition (can have aero and aero lite) (comes with full 'standard' stuff and equiv to Home premium) (with metroUI ran like MC is in HP/Ultimate)

HTPC builds:
Theater edition (black or dark metro theme for rooms with the lights out as default but has color modes and themes) (has the presentation like the vid)
TV Edition (has metro UI as default 'base' ran ontop of a minimal 'core' install of windows 8 core edition [serves as basis for all editions and can even be ran seperate for embedded devices]) (this way tvs can run with small SSD for OS and have a laptop HDD built in possibly)

tablet builds:
Tablet notebook edition (like above professional with 'enhanced' metro UI like courier with handwriting focus) (still has access to full OS)
Tablet standard edition (above but more minimal install same as TV version above but better on battery life) (built on 'core' edition)
 
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Remixdcat: you are assuming Windows is actually that flexible and modularized. Which it is not.
 
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microsoft has server 2008 core edition.... why couldn't' they do the same with windows 8?
that sucks though how they didn't make it like how I thought it would be.
 
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lol at the comment above me
 

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Then perhaps that (modularity) should be the focus of Windows 7.0. Let people choose what they want their OS to be without buying one and being committed to it. As far as I know, that's never been done by any of Microsoft's major competitors.
 

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same but from the looks there going for an os ment for everything and less PC focused but i dont see WIndows 8 giving us anything better then windows 7 at least when a PC is concerned.

Because it will have better security LMAO.
 
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Like sony's security
 

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Last time I checked, Zune was heading towards a footnote in history. Again, clone successes, not failures.

Oh absolutely. The Zune product suite is a failure. The Metro UI, however, is not. Which is what I was talking about, I should have been much more specific, and not mentioned the iPod.

Touch screens aren't practical for most computer applications. If people really wanted a touch screen, they'd buy a tablet PC with Windows Mobile on it. The reason why is quite simple: a 1" gesture on a mouse is 24 times faster than a 1" gesture on a 24" monitor. Computers are all about efficiency of the operator and when you got a mouse, touch screens simply don't make sense.

I also agree that touchscreens are not practical, but take it a step further: what is even more practical than a 1" mouse gesture? The Keyboard. You can hit a boatload of keys in a few seconds. I like keyboard input for AutoCAD, it is a good example. Move the mouse to the line button, click it, move back to model space, click again, etc etc. or type [L] and slam the spacebar in .5 seconds. TLDR; I think UI improvements should be focused on the mouse and keyboard too, but that is not what is up for discussion here. We are talking about a UI's capability to deliver content with the least number of steps in a simple interface. The interface has to look simple in form, not actually be simple in it's function.

I put a computer together not too long ago for my sister's mother-in-law (~60 years old). She's never used a computer and, with a little direction, she figured it out pretty quick. If they design computers around "idiots," they're going to alienate the hundreds of millions of users that aren't "idiots" (their most reliable customers).

Again I believe you are right. However, this is exactly what has happened. I believe this is the cause for the large backlash in the tech community (not just this forum) : because the technical user base has been alienated.

Oh, and businesses still very much shape Windows. They make up a huge share of Windows purchasers. I imagine they'll be selling a Windows 8 Business version that has most of the new Windows 8 features disabled/removed.

Most likely. More importantly, it looks like the whole interface is just a new 'start menu' that runs on top of the original desktop. It can be turned off.

If anything, Microsoft should start marketing a tablet specific version of Windows and leave the core Windows product alone. A desktop OS isn't going to be able to compete with mobile-targetted Android and iPad OS and a tablet OS isn't going to be able to compete with Chrome OS, Mac OS X, or *nix.

Correct, but what if people want windows to work like windows phone? You need a center to handle media...almost like windows media center;). Thanks folks, I'll be here all night.

What concerns me the most is Microsoft doesn't like to maintain "legacy" UIs for long. If they make tablet UIs standard for the desktop OS, the legacy desktop UI will be phased out in less than 5 years. I can see that as only spelling disaster for Microsoft.

The only way the desktop UI will be phased out is if this one actually works better for applications. Let's face it, it probably works the same. Allow me to explain. Remember the part of the footage where they showed excel running? It was the same program. Nothing changed. The only difference is that there is not a taskbar on the bottom of the screen, which is technically wasted space. If there was a way to make it disappear when you were not actively switching between programs, then I would hail that as a godsend. Luckily, that is exactly what this does. Wanna know what TPU would look like in Windows 8? hit [F11].

It looks like the apps where running in full-screen mode. Nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing wrong with that. It does not detract from the functionality of the program. It looks like you can have any kind of shortcut on the new UI. So why not place a shortcut to My Documents on it? Then the new UI is like your desktop & start menu combined. Instead of switching to your desktop to see rainmeter (1-click step) your make 1 click to see the app space. However, you can now access the start menu too, which ordinarily required a separate click. That last click has been omitted, which from an Aspergers standpoint means the new UI is technically twice as efficient.

This is great, because desktops are wasted space anyways. It isn't the greatest way to launch applications. It's like Microsoft took the icons on your desktop, made them better, and then got rid of the background space that you use to make yourself feel better. Pure functionality. That's it. Nothing else. Attached is what the difference between XP and 8 is (check my mspaint skillz:rolleyes: :
 

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Mussels

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This OS is the tablet version,designed for touchscreens the real one comes 2 years later


thank you, sick of seeing this around the web/facebook as if its a desktop OS, when its not.
 

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Correct, but what if people want windows to work like windows phone? You need a center to handle media...almost like windows media center;). Thanks folks, I'll be here all night.
If it weren't the best way to play FM Radio and TV, I'd never touch Windows Media Center. It is clearly targeted at an audience I'm not part of. I don't want fancy animations with vertical and side scrollers. I just want to run what I need, when I need it (like, more down the lines of the stereotypical media player). I've never been a fan of WMC and I doubt I'll ever be.

If people want it to work like a Windows phone, they'll buy Windows Phone 7.



The only way the desktop UI will be phased out is if this one actually works better for applications. Let's face it, it probably works the same. Allow me to explain. Remember the part of the footage where they showed excel running? It was the same program. Nothing changed. The only difference is that there is not a taskbar on the bottom of the screen, which is technically wasted space. If there was a way to make it disappear when you were not actively switching between programs, then I would hail that as a godsend. Luckily, that is exactly what this does. Wanna know what TPU would look like in Windows 8? hit [F11].
The taskbar always shows the time and other running applications. Both are generally considered very important. I think hiding the taskbar or trying to minimize it further would harm productivity more so than helping it, ultimately annoying the user.

Windows has had an "auto-hide taskbar" feature since Windows 95.


It looks like the apps where running in full-screen mode. Nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing wrong with that. It does not detract from the functionality of the program. It looks like you can have any kind of shortcut on the new UI. So why not place a shortcut to My Documents on it? Then the new UI is like your desktop & start menu combined. Instead of switching to your desktop to see rainmeter (1-click step) your make 1 click to see the app space. However, you can now access the start menu too, which ordinarily required a separate click. That last click has been omitted, which from an Aspergers standpoint means the new UI is technically twice as efficient.
Guess you haven't used fullscreen applications much. If something goes wrong, the Task Manager is the only way to make it go away. Running applications fullscreen may also be an unnecessary burdern on the graphics adapter.

Fullscreen "detracts" from the functionality of the OS and everything else that is running. It is anti-multitasking which virtually every computer user does with great frequency. The only way that wouldn't be a complete disaster is if they revolutionized alt+tab. Having used alt+tab when two or more fullscreen games are running, I'll tell you, is a pain in the ass. I have little faith that they'll improve application switching to an extent that it wouldn't be a constant annoyance.

One click means little when it takes longer to figure out where you have to click as opposed to two clicks, in an organized fashion. Clutter ruins productivity and, by extension, efficiency.


This is great, because desktops are wasted space anyways. It isn't the greatest way to launch applications. It's like Microsoft took the icons on your desktop, made them better, and then got rid of the background space that you use to make yourself feel better. Pure functionality. That's it. Nothing else. Attached is what the difference between XP and 8 is (check my mspaint skillz:rolleyes: :
The desktop on an OS is the same as desktop in reality. It is where things to be done wind up so they aren't "out of sight, out of mind." It's not meant to be an information center or a gateway to applications--that's the role of the taskbar (segregated to ~5% or less of the screen real-estate).

It is not wasted space. Windows get their namesake for being able to take up only a portion of the screen real-estate granting presistent access to everything on the desktop without minimizing it. It is a staple of the non-annoying UI--a basic feature they all share.

How annoyed are you when the shortcut to an application you want to start is covered by an open window? Now imagine this happening all the time. It no longer takes one click to start an appication, it takes at least two (minimize, then start) with a lot of mouse travel. The start menu is "always on top" so it takes two clicks with the only exception being a full screen application running.
 
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try doing any advanced tasks with a touch screen... I dare you to manage drives or manage a server infrastrcture with a touch screen where they still haven't got the right resolution and precision?

or try doing 3d modelling or architectural designs.... impossible with metro...

the way touch screens are these days they are very inaccurate and it's very easy to touch the wrong thing....
 

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try doing any advanced tasks with a touch screen... I dare you to manage drives or manage a server infrastrcture with a touch screen where they still haven't got the right resolution and precision?

or try doing 3d modelling or architectural designs.... impossible with metro...

the way touch screens are these days they are very inaccurate and it's very easy to touch the wrong thing....

which is exactly why this is for the mobile market.


they arent going to make 24" touch screens for desktops, or 52" touch HDTV/plasmas for HTPC's. people are just getting worked up over nothing.


just because they're making a mobile OS that they're re-using as a media center style interface on desktops, doesnt mean thats all we're getting.
 
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I refer you guys to my previous post:

I would agree, but the guy said "This IS the new version of Windows. It will run on laptops, desktops, touch-screen PCs and tablets" or words to that effect. To me, that seals it.
 
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they arent going to make 24" touch screens for desktops, or 52" touch HDTV/plasmas for HTPC's. people are just getting worked up over nothing.

Were you not on planet earth for the ohhhh almost 2 dozen or so touchscreen desktops. They are called All-in-one PC's and there are a bunch on the market with full touchscreen capabilities.

So will they make a touch screen for desktop...yeah like 2 years ago and continuing.
 
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I used those at staples (the sony and the HP one) and they sucked. it was uncomfortable to use those for half an hour I did play around with it. if you use that all the time your arms get tired.
 

Mussels

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I refer you guys to my previous post:

i know, but you're failing to realise that just because someones said it, doesnt mean its 100% fact to all interpretations.


Its been previously stated - by MS - that the mobile version of windows 8 is coming out long before the desktop version is.


This version is for mobiles and tablets/slates


Laughingman: of course i've seen them. they failed. they however were standalone odd products, and not something everyone was forced to use - its one thing for a company to risk a touch based desktop, and another for an OS manufacturer to force it upon everyone.

point in case, those systems sucked and were never popular. MS knows it wont work.
 

Captain.Abrecan

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It no longer takes one click to start an appication, it takes at least two (minimize, then start) with a lot of mouse travel. The start menu is "always on top" so it takes two clicks with the only exception being a full screen application running.

That is an exceptional point, I did not think of that...
 
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i know, but you're failing to realise that just because someones said it, doesnt mean its 100% fact to all interpretations.

I've heard it said by people in the industry that know these people that the guy who's now heading up the Windows team has a "don't demo it until it's ready" policy, so I don't think in the unveiling he'd let someone say something like that without it being true or at least their intention.
 

Mussels

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I've heard it said by people in the industry that know these people that the guy who's now heading up the Windows team has a "don't demo it until it's ready" policy, so I don't think in the unveiling he'd let someone say something like that without it being true or at least their intention.

they could well use this core OS with a new GUI as windows 8. there is going to be a wave of x86 tablets as well, in upcoming generations.
 

FordGT90Concept

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Windows Phone and Windows/Server are based on separate cores. It is unlikely they share much in common besides the name.


It has been said that Windows 8 focuses on tablets and yes, it is what is coming to desktops too. They are not making a separate OS for tablets. Windows Phone (formerly Windows Mobile) has its own release schedule completely independent from Windows/Server.
 
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streetfighter 2

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So Windows 8 is just Windows Media User Center?

I don't see how this is going to do well in the corporate/professional environment.
 
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