CPU Cooling and Lapping: Stock Intel vs Zulman

[RigRebel]

Hello all,
Fyi Intro:
I am using older I3-550 that I am using right now till Ivy bridge i5-3570/Z77 upgrade hopefully in the winter. I love this little I3-550 because at 3.2Ghz/core it actually dose really well for medium gaming with a decent card because most games only run for 2 core mode anyways and at the time the i7 was 2.4Ghz/core so the to me the 2dual core i3-550 + the price (with free asus P7H55-M LE mobo) was a no brainer. I'm getting a new NZXT Vulcan case (in the mail) and since I'm gonna have the board out I'd figure I'd either A. Lap the heatsink (I have done this before on an old K-7 Thunderbird setup and got FANTASTIC results) or B. Upgrade the heatsink/fan cooler

Current Temps:
On my stock I3-550 fan I'm currently getting core temp shows c1 ~ 27degrees Celcius at idle and c2~28 degrees Celcius and at load (3hours of moderate online gaming) I'm getting @38-42 Degrees celcius per core. My Asus probe is showing @34 degrees C at idle for the whole CPU (can't remember load atm will test later tonight) and This is from the STOCK fan! I'm using really good cooler master creamique. I like it better than A-Sliver because won't bridge multiplies, less mess and 24hr set-in. Also, I have side intake blow hole blowing in lined up almost perfect witht he stock CPU cooler. To me, these numbers are really great for a stock cooler but could go even colder possibly with this cooler upgrade > ZALMAN CNPS8000B 92mm FSB (Fluid Shield Bearing) C...

Questions/ concerns
1. What's a REALLY good software for thermal testing that will test CPU/Cores and Motherboard chipset possibly.. heatwave ?
2. The Zulman looks like it would be a tight fit and I can't find many posts/pictures (Only a couple moded setups) to suggest that monting anyway you can as long as there is room is ok? .
2. The Zulman doesn't look like it's positioned all that well over the mosfets and VRMS and the stock intel cooler is. The stock Intel actually is designed for good cooling over the MOSFETs and VRMs. The MOSFETs and VRMs are not heatsinked on the board so this could matter greatly. Will the Zulman provide sufficent air to the MOSFETs?
3. At already @28Degrees /core on idle, without lapping and not overclocking would lapping just be the better way to go for slight temp decrease and the Zulman unnecessary ? The Zulman might actually not do as well.

Questions comment welcome.

PS. No I don't want liquid cooling. It's gonna be a used also as a LAN box and don't want to mess with liquid coolers in transit. I know people have done it but the case I'm getting has is a good setup for air cooling and I'm gonna stick with that.

This will go on the Ivy Bridge I5 setup hopefully in the future > http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6729 It has great reviews and a "must have" on twinktown http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4277/cooler_master_geminii_s524_cpu_cooler_review/index.html I just think it's overkill for the i3-550 so I'll wait on that one.

 

[phanbuey]

1. Intel Burn Test

2. that cooler kind of sucks, you are getting a vulcan, so you can fit a tower style cooler... go for something like this: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Contin... << this will carry over to the i5 setup.

2 again: This does not matter, cooling your Mosfets and Vrms should not be an issue unless you are pushing a massive overclock on a power hungry chip. Even then this is almost never an issue. Don't worry about this.

3. Lapping makes no virtually no difference these days, it was popular for some time because back in the day a lot of good coolers had concave bases and the chip IHSs were sometimes not flat either, so it made a difference, nowdays you almost never see a cooler or IHS like this, so lapping may give you 1C, totally not worth the risk or effort.

 

[brandonwh64]

1. Intel Burn Test

2. that cooler kind of sucks, you are getting a vulcan, so you can fit a tower style cooler... go for something like this: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Contin... << this will carry over to the i5 setup.

2 again: This does not matter, cooling your Mosfets and Vrms should not be an issue unless you are pushing a massive overclock on a power hungry chip. Even then this is almost never an issue. Don't worry about this.

3. Lapping makes no virtually no difference these days, it was popular for some time because back in the day a lot of good coolers had concave bases and the chip IHSs were sometimes not flat either, so it made a difference, nowdays you almost never see a cooler or IHS like this, so lapping may give you 1C, totally not worth the risk or effort.

Phan is right, the cooler to get for price/performance stand point is the 212+ he linked above. These are 120MM with Direct Heatpipe Touch design. I just purchased one of these for JrRacinFan to replace a H50 and he tell's me it cools just as good as his H50 with lower noise.

 

[RigRebel]

1. Intel Burn Test

2. that cooler kind of sucks, you are getting a vulcan, so you can fit a tower style cooler... go for something like this: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Contin... << this will carry over to the i5 setup.

2 again: This does not matter, cooling your Mosfets and Vrms should not be an issue unless you are pushing a massive overclock on a power hungry chip. Even then this is almost never an issue. Don't worry about this.

3. Lapping makes no virtually no difference these days, it was popular for some time because back in the day a lot of good coolers had concave bases and the chip IHSs were sometimes not flat either, so it made a difference, nowdays you almost never see a cooler or IHS like this, so lapping may give you 1C, totally not worth the risk or effort.

Great info phan, you're explination for the effects of lapping not yielding as much makes total sense! The chip I did have about 10 degree difference on was the old AMD thunderbir and that sure was a "back in the day" chip. Although, I thought that the other half of lapping was the micro groves on the surface more so than the concavity. confirm/deny ?

Which cooler sucks ? The Zulman or the Cooler master Gemin II? I'm assuming you mean the Zulman. I did see a direct comparisson and you're right about the 212 being a better top end cooler especially for overclocking. Infact, the comparison I saw pitted the GeminII directly against 212. They said the Gemin II is not bad at all in fact it's a good cooler just that you're right the 212 is better especially for Oc'ing.

do you know for sure if the 212 will fit in the Vulcan? What about the faxt that the Gemin has a fan positioned directly infront of the 200 side intake and the 212 will have the fans faceing vertically out to the case insides or up and down?

Phan is right, the cooler to get for price/performance stand point is the 212+ he linked above. These are 120MM with Direct Heatpipe Touch design. I just purchased one of these for JrRacinFan to replace a H50 and he tell's me it cools just as good as his H50 with lower noise.

Thanks for your input as well Brandon,
Doesn't the Gemin II have direct heat touch? I'll double check. I still think the Gemin II is a good cooler, it got great reviews for what it is but the 212 is better and the question is do I want to swim in deeper waters with the 212 or stay in the middle end... I will say I like the looks of the Gemin II better.

 

[phanbuey]

do you know for sure if the 212 will fit in the Vulcan? What about the faxt that the Gemin has a fan positioned directly infront of the 200 side intake and the 212 will have the fans faceing vertically out to the case insides or up and down?

It won't matter too much which way the fan faces - that case has great airflow so you will be good either way.

The NZXT Vulcan has a CPU cooler clearance of 145mm (with the side panel fan) and 175mm (without the side panel fan).

Cooler height 158.5 mm - you will NOT be able to use the side panel fan with the cooler - so that is one drawback.

 

[sneekypeet]

You guys are missing the point! Even if he gets a Hyper 212 he is not gaining any more cooling to the VRM area than his Zalman offers. If you are that worried about temperatures and want to actively cool the surrounding area get a cooler built like the Enermax ETD-T60, Samuel17, or the Noctua NH-C14. All of these coolers have the fan blowing down at the CPU and will offer much better cooling to the surrounding area than any "tower style" cooler on the market. Even the Gemini you linked in post one is more of the right idea for your needs.

 

[RigRebel]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9945/20110405015026925.jpg

It won't matter too much which way the fan faces - that case has great airflow so you will be good either way.

The NZXT Vulcan has a CPU cooler clearance of 145mm (with the side panel fan) and 175mm (without the side panel fan).

Cooler height 158.5 mm - you will NOT be able to use the side panel fan with the cooler - so that is one drawback.

AWWW shucks, you almost had me going for the 212... well, I was wanting to use the side fan for the aspect of two 600series cards in SLI...

But wait, perhaps I could install a water block in each card and reloacte the HDs to the DVD cage and remove the HD cage then put in a push pull raditor from the front intake in. I've seen several Vulcan rigs set up with a push pull down in the lower front and they do look tight. And the 212 Air with a push pull vga setup in the bottom front for sli water blocks would be sick as @#$#!

Wonder if I can do a VGA liquid solution with a pushpull down there. Any thoughts ? Well there goes the no liquid cooling idea. This is gonna be my "project" baby so let's do it up! Any idea's thoughts or pitfalls to avoid on the VGA water blocks ? links welcome.

 

[brandonwh64]

Cooling VRMs is more invasive as peet has mentioned. The coolers he suggested do cool the surrounding area. Case airflow plays a huge part in cooling VRM's since they have no fan blowing on them actively.

 

[sneekypeet]

Also if you go to water cooling, there is no air moving anywhere close to the VRMs so on top of the cost of water cooling you need to restructure your airflow to make sure you don't damage things. This is more for the over clocking crowd. If you plan to leave the CPU at stock settings, really any cooler will do just fine.

 

[RigRebel]

You guys are missing the point! Even if he gets a Hyper 212 he is not gaining any more cooling to the VRM area than his Zalman offers. If you are that worried about temperatures and want to actively cool the surrounding area get a cooler built like the Enermax ETD-T60, Samuel17, or the Noctua NH-C14. All of these coolers have the fan blowing down at the CPU and will offer much better cooling to the surrounding area than any "tower style" cooler on the market. Even the Gemini you linked in post one is more of the right idea for your needs.

Thanks for bringing out the VRM point, yes I'm serious about having them cooled well on my current board but will not be as much on the Z77 board for the i5 because that board will have VRM heatsinks. However, the design of the Cooler master Gemin II is designed specifically for getting air down to the VRMS just like the Noctura. Infact I believe it got better praise for it's design. The trick with the Gemin II is just to position it with the over hang not over the ram but over the VRM lay out. YOu can position the Gemin II anyway you want but Cooler Master does not warranty playing the heat pipes on the top because the 120mm fan edge facing the top of the video card may interfere with the VC. Here's the Gemin II Tweektown review, check the design >
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4277/cooler_master_geminii_s524_cpu_cooler_review/index.html

Also if you go to water cooling, there is no air moving anywhere close to the VRMs so on top of the cost of water cooling you need to restructure your airflow to make sure you don't damage things. This is more for the over clocking crowd. If you plan to leave the CPU at stock settings, really any cooler will do just fine.

Thanks for this post aswell peet,
Agreed, that's why I initially stated no liquid cooling, but keep in mind the current h55 board with no VRM and MOSFET heatsinks will be replaced by the Z77 that does so more room can be afforded less direct VRM cooling. The VGA cooling will not effect the CPU VRM cooling. I'm gonna OC the @#$# out of this beast... this is my hotrod I'm finally getting to make after 10 years of IT it's my turn to build a beast

 

[sneekypeet]

I know all about that review

Something to think about as well is that heatsinks without a fan are just hot pieces of metal on the chips. Even with them, without the proper airflow, they can still overheat when pushed far enough.

Taking care of the edit for you

 

[phanbuey]

You guys are missing the point! Even if he gets a Hyper 212 he is not gaining any more cooling to the VRM area than his Zalman offers. If you are that worried about temperatures and want to actively cool the surrounding area get a cooler built like the Enermax ETD-T60, Samuel17, or the Noctua NH-C14. All of these coolers have the fan blowing down at the CPU and will offer much better cooling to the surrounding area than any "tower style" cooler on the market. Even the Gemini you linked in post one is more of the right idea for your needs.

While cooling VRM's makes sense from a logical/common sense point of view, I don't think it makes a huge difference in reality. The quality of the VRMs used are the single most important factor in deciding whether they pop or not IMO.

So many cheap boards with no VRM cooling run high OCs with no problems for years (have one right now).

My 2c - personally i would not trade CPU cooling for VRM cooling.

@ Either way, ^^ I would go with the Gemini - its a better cooler.

 

[brandonwh64]

Thanks for bringing out the VRM point, yes I'm serious about having them cooled well on my current board but will not be as much on the Z77 board for the i5 because that board will have VRM heatsinks. However, the design of the Cooler master Gemin II is designed specifically for getting air down to the VRMS just like the Noctura. Infact I believe it got better praise for it's design. The trick with the Gemin II is just to position it with the over hang not over the ram but over the VRM lay out. YOu can position the Gemin II anyway you want but Cooler Master does not warranty playing the heat pipes on the top because the 120mm fan edge facing the top of the video card may interfere with the VC. Here's the Gemin II Tweektown review, check the design >
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4277/cooler_master_geminii_s524_cpu_cooler_review/index.html

I am 99% sure that SneekyPeet did that review. So you are talking to the RIGHT person!

 

[sneekypeet]

While cooling VRM's makes sense from a logical/common sense point of view, I don't think it makes a huge difference.

So many cheap boards with no VRM cooling run high OCs with no problems for years (have one right now).

I think it comes down to the quality of components used and phase system design rather than the cooling. I've seen boards with massive Vrm heatsinks pop a regulator. My 2c - personally i would not trade CPU cooling for VRM cooling.

@ Either way, ^^ I would go with the Gemini - its a better cooler.

While I agree, this is his first time OC-ing it seems, and I don't want him to blow things up, so I am giving him the full perspective of what is going on. this way at least he is fully informed and can go any route he see's fit with the info on hand

 

[phanbuey]

Off topic... but the whole "lapping a thunderbird" comment makes me think OP more or less knew what he was doing at one point

welcome back.

 

[RigRebel]

I know all about that review

Something to think about as well is that heatsinks without a fan are just hot pieces of metal on the chips. Even with them, without the proper airflow, they can still overheat when pushed far enough.

Taking care of the edit for you

Agreed, thus the "as much". Correct, I do still want them to have a good amount of air. Keeping the case in harmony with lots of digital Zen is a high priority. That's kinda why I really like the Gemin II because although maybe not the best stand alone cooler in comparrison, when you pair it with the case and with it's VRM air cooling design it could be a nicer fit for a total picture. Also, the Side fan will do much to add to additional clean air hit right on the main CPU/Ram/IO port and VRM footprint... The more I talk about it, the more I really do like the Gemin II as a total approach cooling solution for the CPU and VRMs.

I am 99% sure that SneekyPeet did that review. So you are talking to the RIGHT person!

LOL really ? embarrassed and honored >

While I agree, this is his first time OC-ing it seems, and I don't want him to blow things up, so I am giving him the full perspective of what is going on. this way at least he is fully informed and can go any route he see's fit with the info on hand

lol yeah blowing up not good but I have been A+ and working in the field for 10 years and not totally clueless I am a very "caution 101" and "double/tripple check your approach" kinda tech before I jump in. However, The really meaty learning of OC is something I've yet to sink my fork into and probably won't till I try by fire! lol wait fire is a bad choice of words lol. So yea, any OC 101, do's, don'ts, links, stories, guidlines, forums etc... humbly appreciated!

Off topic... but the whole "lapping a thunderbird" comment makes me think OP more or less knew what he was doing at one point

welcome back.

Ty, Yeah I'm an old dog at the new game of OCing but I can still hunt
PS thanks for the confirmation that you'd go with the Gemin II aswell.

On that note Phan, I think I may go ahead and lap that stock i3-550 cooler for the heck of it this weekend. It will be fun, like the good old days lol. I won't call you a liar if I get better results lol. I may for the sake of fun and science try to confirm your info. just to see The results may turn out different hopefully. It's only 4 hours of elbow grease...

Wait that reminds me, What's up with this new "figure 8" way of lapping? I don't like it by the looks of it. Seems like a shortcut "lazyman" way to weaker results because all the heatsink plates look scratched to hell in web pictures and I thought the whole point of lapping was to remove the imperfections and groves and not add them. My old school ways is put the wetsand paper in a flat pan/plastic tray, dab a small dot of dishsoap on it, pour a small sprits of water, put a sharpie mark at 12O'clock on the heatsink then move the heatsink (under it's own weight do not apply heavy force) forward then pick it up, then move it foward again keeping in one direction like you would if sanding wood along the grain. Then after 8-10 strokes, turn the heatsink 90 degrees and repeat till you do 1 full rotation. Then, do 10 rotations per grit... and re-soap, re-water when needed to keep the paper together. I got my T-bird down to 22C in bios temp that way and the t-bird could get hot!.

 

[RigRebel]

You guys are missing the point! Even if he gets a Hyper 212 he is not gaining any more cooling to the VRM area than his Zalman offers. If you are that worried about temperatures and want to actively cool the surrounding area get a cooler built like the Enermax ETD-T60, Samuel17, or the Noctua NH-C14. All of these coolers have the fan blowing down at the CPU and will offer much better cooling to the surrounding area than any "tower style" cooler on the market. Even the Gemini you linked in post one is more of the right idea for your needs.

Second posting seperate.

WOW I looked at all those coolers and the Gremin II review again and I was wrong. The Noctua has way better results. I'm liking that! Not crazy about the looks but the Noctua NH-c14 but looks good on results. That may be my new one to consider.

Update: WOW I'm really liking what I see on this Noctua NH-C12P SE14!! omg this is tight. Similar design but about 9 degrees cooler and still almost as quite!. Thanks for recommending this one! We may have a new winner only $25.00 more but looks like a better preformer. Hope it fits! lol
Thanks

 

[phanbuey]

On that note Phan, I think I may go ahead and lap that stock i3-550 cooler for the heck of it this weekend. It will be fun, like the good old days lol. I won't call you a liar if I get better results lol. I may for the sake of fun and science try to confirm your info. just to see The results may turn out different hopefully. It's only 4 hours of elbow grease...

Wait that reminds me, What's up with this new "figure 8" way of lapping? I don't like it by the looks of it. Seems like a shortcut "lazyman" way to weaker results because all the heatsink plates look scratched to hell in web pictures and I thought the whole point of lapping was to remove the imperfections and groves and not add them. My old school ways is put the wetsand paper in a flat pan/plastic tray, dab a small dot of dishsoap on it, pour a small sprits of water, put a sharpie mark at 12O'clock on the heatsink then move the heatsink (under it's own weight do not apply heavy force) forward then pick it up, then move it foward again keeping in one direction like you would if sanding wood along the grain. Then after 8-10 strokes, turn the heatsink 90 degrees and repeat till you do 1 full rotation. Then, do 10 rotations per grit... and re-soap, re-water when needed to keep the paper together. I got my T-bird down to 22C in bios temp that way and the t-bird could get hot!.

Yeah let me know! I stopped lapping client builds not too long ago - my i5 750 ihs is lapped and i think it gave me a whopping 3C on one of the cores at load. When I used to do it to my old athlon 64 it dropped it by close to 8C-10C... It still looks cool with a shiny core tho.

Lapped processors typically re-sell for less (I think becuase its a pretty good indicator that someone clocked the pants off of it).

 

[RigRebel]

Yeah let me know! I stopped lapping client builds not too long ago - my i5 750 ihs is lapped and i think it gave me a whopping 3C on one of the cores at load. When I used to do it to my old athlon 64 it dropped it by close to 8C-10C... It still looks cool with a shiny core tho.

Lapped processors typically re-sell for less (I think becuase its a pretty good indicator that someone clocked the pants off of it).

Will do! planing it for this weekend when the case comes in! Gosh I have been eyeballing this Vulcan case since Last November! yeah it's finally otw. It was that or the Aerocool QX2000 which is neat but not near what the Vulcan can do.

 

[sneekypeet]

I like that you have enough sense to know when a better cooler is out there and it is worth the money to upgrade. As far as the Noctua coloration, there is a copy-cat company called Phantks that is offering Noctua coolers under their name with a splash of more normal colors. Just a bit of information so you aren't stuck with the tan and maroon fans, if you want to try to color match the cooler to the build.

 

[RigRebel]

Sponging sorry : and wall of text crit.

I like that you have enough sense to know when a better cooler is out there and it is worth the money to upgrade. As far as the Noctua coloration, there is a copy-cat company called Phantks that is offering Noctua coolers under their name with a splash of more normal colors. Just a bit of information so you aren't stuck with the tan and maroon fans, if you want to try to color match the cooler to the build.

Lol thanks for the complement. Yeah, I showed a bit of tunnel vision at first with the Cooler Master GeminII. I was up late reading about it on Newegg and didn't really read your TT review throughly till today. Also, it is hard to fully read and concentrate on forum posts at work. After a bit of time, I had the time to actually "read" what you suggested in the post and also checked out your article with the temp tests for what looked like all the popular coolers. That is an Excellent field round-up btw!

I saw that the Noctua NH-C12P-SE14 has way better scores for just a little more cabbage. At first, I was concerned a little bit because I initially looked at the Noctua NH-C14 and saw some Newegg reviews claiming it "vibrates" quite a bit. I then saw the NH-C12P SE 14 and was happy to see the C12P install documents show that it has has rubber buffer pads to install on the heat sink when affixing the cooling fan. Does this help a lot ? Does the C12P vibrate as much? What about the fan mounting, will those pads melt or ware off after time? Is there a better "moded" way for this that you know of ?

All in all I think the C12P is more the design I'm looking for and offers both a good VRM cooling solution with better overall CPU cooling than the Cooler Master GeminII S524.
Comments on NH-C12P SE 14 vibration and fan mounting ? Is it better than the NH-C14?


Also, for you and other readers, here are my base results for my stock Intel cooler on the I3-550 on a P7H55 board.

Test setup: Using Intel Burn Test v2.53 with Coretemp and Asus Probe II for monitoring temps.
Intel Burn Test setting = Very High (65% Ram used), sample taken at highest temps reached not average.
Screenshot attached
Core temps:
At first hit Coretemps for both showed @32degrees Celcius at 100% load
then climbs to 68 degrees and rests at @72 degress maxed for core 1 and 69d~Celcius for core 2.
Over all CPU temp (Asus Probe II)
Started off at 43degrees and maxed at @53 degrees Celcius at 100% load.

Questions
1. Is there a better all in one program that will run the CPU burn in calculations AND show a temperature graph for cores and cpu? Or perhaps, what is a better temp monitoring program that I can use that will show an over time graph? That way, I don't have to sit and watch the test and I can run extended long hour testing.
2. Are those temps "bad" for a stock cooler ? I will be changing it out soon so I'm not too concerned but I thought they were at least decent at first till the cores went to 71d~Celcius. Is it normal for the cores to go much higher than the CPU as a whole? Because the CPU temp per asus probe maxed at 54d~Celcius I believe.
3. Should I not go higher or can I push to max ?

PS: I saw the copy-cat Phantks and they look cool but all are tower coolers. I did see though that the fans by themselves are at newegg and are probably compatible with the NH-C12P SE 14. I'll look into this further. Thanks for that info. One Concern would be is it as good as the Noctua or is it cheaper made with cut corners to go with the colors ? If it is I'll stick with the ugly maroon for overal better performance. I mean it's not like I use the computer with my head in the case looking at the fans lol

 

[RigRebel]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9945/20110405015026925.jpg

It won't matter too much which way the fan faces - that case has great airflow so you will be good either way.

The NZXT Vulcan has a CPU cooler clearance of 145mm (with the side panel fan) and 175mm (without the side panel fan).

Cooler height 158.5 mm - you will NOT be able to use the side panel fan with the cooler - so that is one drawback.

OMG ! that is EPIC!
On my office LAN they resrtict browsers, pictures and Active X emmensely.
I just now saw the your Vulcan with the 212 pictures when I got home! DUDE THAT ROCKS !! We aught to turn this into a NZXT Vulcan Thread.. is there one on here yet ?
That's what I'm going for, minus the 430 PSU lol wtf Upgrade that bad boy!
Seems like you as well as most others are taking out the HD cage and relocating HDs.. is that for better front intake flow across the Graphics cards? Will not having the air flow over the HDs hurt an SSD ?


PSS too late, I created a NZXT Vulcan mod out thread http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2587081#post2587081

 

[RigRebel]

New developement.
Since the Haswell 1150 socket chips and board are projected for April 2013 I may not go IB/1155 this summer/fall. That means no need for this style fan because the current I3-550 + Asus P7H55M-LE setup will get thrown into an HTPC case. That puts me back looking for a small profile cooler and possibly gets this thread back on the zulman/stock cooler titled comparison route lol.

How's the Zalman 8900 extreme sound ? It doesn't peform well at 300W but hex I'm not gonna overclock the I3-550 setup, I can't with that board. So how does the that Zalman 8900 extreme sound ?
Any other heatsinks you'd recommend ?

 

[brandonwh64]

We aught to turn this into a NZXT Vulcan Thread..

Maybe we should

 

[Shurakai]

Maybe we should

http://img.techpowerup.org/110823/DSC01650.jpg

Good example of why modular power supplies are a blessing for small cases