Mystery of F-22 illnesses grows

[FordGT90Concept]

Yes, that's F-22 Raptor, the fifth generation air superiority fighter...

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/09/mystery-of-f-22-illnesses-grows/?hpt=hp_t2

Even as the Air Force searches for the reason pilots are getting sick flying the F-22, a new mystery about the troubled stealth fighter jet has come to light: Why are mechanics on the ground getting sick in the plane as well?

The Air Force has been looking into a number of reports that pilots experienced "hypoxia-like symptoms" aboard F-22s since April 2008. Hypoxia is oxygen deficiency.

The Air Force reports 25 cases of such systems, including 11 since September, when the service cleared the F-22 fleet to return to flight after a four-month grounding.

The fleet was grounded in May 2011 so the service could check the hypoxia reports, but the order was lifted in September under a "return to fly" plan, with equipment modifications and new rules including daily inspections of the life-support systems.

"Early on in the return to fly we had five maintainers that reported hypoxia symptoms," Gen. Daniel Wyman, command surgeon for the Air Combat Command, said during a conference call with reporters Wednesday.

The maintainers are mechanics on the F-22's ground crews who sometimes have to be in the cockpit while the jet's engine is doing a ground run.

...

WTF!?!

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

When not on masks how is air supplied to the cockpit? This makes me wonder if some part is leaching something into the air that's blocking oxygen absorption, and that isn't related directly to the masks. Or some coincidental secondary cause.

 

[D007]

Yes, that's F-22 Raptor, the fifth generation air superiority fighter...

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/09/mystery-of-f-22-illnesses-grows/?hpt=hp_t2


WTF!?!

Yea they set a hard top for them of 22,000 feet, until they find out what's happening. May not help though. Could be fumes or something, getting into the cockpit. Billions of dollars, for a plane that kills it's pilot.. Money well spent...

 

[qubit]

That's wierd. I reckon there's a design fault causing a chemical or fuel leak somewhere. It's very slight and therefore hard to trace.

 

[Bow]

Thats to bad, my uncle was a design engineer for that plane. Have to call and ask what he thinks

 

[qubit]

Thats to bad, my uncle was a design engineer for that plane. Have to call and ask what he thinks

I'll bet he has a good idea of the cause, but will be gagged by national security restrictions from revealing it.

 

[Batou1986]

Its a flaw in the o2 system designed by Honeywell, they have yet to pin down exactly what not working right tho as the problem cannot be duplicated and seems to happen randomly.
Could be worse like the F-35 with its countless problems and failures.

 

[n-ster]

tax payers def want this as a priority in this fantastic economy

 

[qubit]

tax payers def want this as a priority in this fantastic economy

Soo cutting.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I wonder if it has something to do with the skin of the aircraft.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Just what we need; a kamikaze stealth fighter...?

Thankfully this hasn't, to my knowledge, cost lives yet. I understand the desire to keep multiple suppliers unaware of other systems, for presumably the sake of security. On the other hand having no idea why something is failing and no cross communication means that internal developers need to figure out a problem, without the help of better qualified technical experts outside the project.

It is my hope that the hypoxia issue is solved soon. This project stands to be a substantial boondogle if it isn't.



Seems kind of ironic that some of the components were probably manufactured in China. Yes, I had to go there.

 

[Inceptor]

Has the US Air force retired its F-15s yet?
I realize the F-22 can fly circles around an F-15, but if they're having problems...

 

[RejZoR]

Nope, the iconic F-15 is still in service. Though i think it very small numbers and is widely replaced by the F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet, depending on the loadout needs for the mission.
Though it's interesting to observe dates of these aircrafts. They are all mostly made back in the 80's and 90's. Looks like the design was so good that they didn't feel like it to change them. Or they simply cost so much they can't really make new designs as quickly as they used to.

 

[EarthDog]

Its seemingly not in the air system as engineers who were testing the thing sitting in the cockpit also got sick...while not being attached to that system.

F-15 = 1978 for its public release, and first flight in the early 70s.
F-18 = was 83 for its release, and first flight in the late 70's. Super Hornet was 90's, and the growler version was late 200x.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Thankfully this hasn't, to my knowledge, cost lives yet.

Supposedly, the one that crashed was caused by hypoxia, pilot died:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/19/air-force-evidence-points-f-pilots-death/

Seems kind of ironic that some of the components were probably manufactured in China. Yes, I had to go there.

They found counterfeit parts in the Chinook supply chain. I'm sure the supply chain for the Raptor is so tight, there's no chance any counterfeit parts could get in.

Though it's interesting to observe dates of these aircrafts. They are all mostly made back in the 80's and 90's. Looks like the design was so good that they didn't feel like it to change them. Or they simply cost so much they can't really make new designs as quickly as they used to.

It takes decades to put a new design into commission during peace time. Like right now, they're still working on new software upgrades to handle more missile types.

 

[repman244]

Though it's interesting to observe dates of these aircrafts. They are all mostly made back in the 80's and 90's

If it ain't broken don't fix it I would say.
All of them will be replaced once, it's a long and expensive process...the same way the Eurofighter is replacing a lot of aircrafts in many countries here in Europe and it will probably have the same lifetime as the aircrafts now in use.

 

[TheMailMan78]

If it ain't broken don't fix it I would say.
All of them will be replaced once, it's a long and expensive process...the same way the Eurofighter is replacing a lot of aircrafts in many countries here in Europe and it will probably have the same lifetime as the aircrafts now in use.

Eurofighter........fail.

 

[MT Alex]

Nope, the iconic F-15 is still in service. Though i think it very small numbers and is widely replaced by the F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet, depending on the loadout needs for the mission.

Nope, the F-15 is still the air superiority/interceptor of the Air Force, deployed in large numbers. The USAF doesn't use F-18s at all, they are deployed by the USN and USMC.

 

[repman244]

Eurofighter........fail.

Yeah, great post really explained it all, and it's funny to say that in this thread


Anyhow they had this issue in the past already, with the F/A-18. The OBOGS (Onboard Oxygen Generating System) system is on F/A-18 as well. Exhaust air was being sucked back into the engine which of course contains CO. The F/A-18 suffered from this problem when pilots were stacked behind the jet blast deflector or other aircrafts awaiting their turn to taxi to the catapults. I think they implemented changes in ground procedures or changes to the F/A-18 which stopped the problem. If I remember correctly there were around 60 or more cases of this.

However in the F-22's case I remember reading that there were similar reports when they started them up in the hangar and caused exhaust air to be sucked back into the engines bleed air intake, but I don't know if this is the case here.
The problem with CO is that it does not dissipate from your bloodstream very quickly and it doesn't take a lot to lower the oxygen level. So after a longer exposure to even a low % can accumulate a high concentration of CO in your system.

 

[ShiBDiB]

Nope, the iconic F-15 is still in service. Though i think it very small numbers and is widely replaced by the F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet, depending on the loadout needs for the mission.
Though it's interesting to observe dates of these aircrafts. They are all mostly made back in the 80's and 90's. Looks like the design was so good that they didn't feel like it to change them. Or they simply cost so much they can't really make new designs as quickly as they used to.

As was said.. the USAF doesnt use 18's. 15's 16's 22's and 35's r the primary air to air (and future) of the USAF



Also read in the air force times that pilots are beginning to refuse to fly the 22's, and taking out large life insurance policies until the problem is solved.
http://rt.com/usa/news/force-air-f-22-wilson-731/

 

[RejZoR]

If we're strict, yes, USAF doesn't use them. F-18 (or sometimes referred as F/A-18) are usually deployed from aircraft carriers for air-2-air engagement and tactical bombing. These go under the US NAVY "flag".

 

[ShiBDiB]

If we're strict, yes, USAF doesn't use them. F-18 (or sometimes referred as F/A-18) are usually deployed from aircraft carriers for air-2-air engagement and tactical bombing. These go under the US NAVY "flag".

Which if you understand the organization of the US Military is a completely different branch and chain of command.

Also the 18 is not a true air to air fighter. The F/A designator alone shows that its a multirole aircraft. Currently the 15/16/22 are the main true air to air fighters in the entire us military component.

 

[PopcornMachine]

It's obviously due to the secret alien technology they've incorporated into the plane....

 

[RejZoR]

Which if you understand the organization of the US Military is a completely different branch and chain of command.

Also the 18 is not a true air to air fighter. The F/A designator alone shows that its a multirole aircraft. Currently the 15/16/22 are the main true air to air fighters in the entire us military component.

F/A-18 can engage into air-to-air combat if needed. Unlike F-117 or B-2 which are strictly ground bombers and would go down rather easily if cought by a fighter since they can't engage into air-to-air combate and they are also a bit slow and clumsy. Then again, F-22 sort of fills the gap between multirole fighters and bombers while still having stealth capability. And it looks damn cool a well.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Oxygen problems far more likely in F-22 than other fighter jets

The new data, released by Sen. Mark Warner, D-Virginia, and Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Illinois, shows Raptor pilots have reported 26.43 hypoxia and hypoxia-like incidents per 100,000 flight hours. While that represents a mere fraction of total flight hours, it is far higher than incidents from other Air Force aircraft, including the A-10, the F-15E and the F-16.

Investigators are focusing on a part of the suit called the Combat Edge, which can hamper breathing and cause oxygen loss when combined with a physiological condition that collapses air sacs in the lungs, according to details of the report that were shared with CNN Security Clearance.