OFFICIAL Tomb Raider (Discussion)

[Xzibit]

So far, given the way you write and especially your avatar, I've read all your posts in my head in Cartman's voice. Even if your arguments aren't successful, you are.

Right now hes try'n to convince Stan, Kyle and Kenny. TressFX is no biggy while even Kenny is running it at 60fps with TressFX on.

Wait until he realizes he has a 660 TI and starts cursing at it.


The links to TombRaider bechmarks are posted in this thread in Post #83 & #84

There has been 2 game updates and 2 driver updates to help Nvidia performance.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Look at your system specs, and maybe try the new beta drivers from NVidia that boost performance in Tomb Raider with TressFX by about 60% on average.

Also TressFX is DirectCompute accelerated. your GTX660ti like my 680 but even worse are weak with DirectCompute which is why performance is hit so hard with it enabled. :shadedshu

Exactly, was going to sufffice with saying my spec doesn't have anywhere near such problems, but you said it better.

 

[Eric_Cartman]

People give PhysX crap because its only accelerated through CUDA API which only works if you have a certain type of GPU.

I just wanted to revisit this statement because I learned something today.

TressFX isn't even included in the PS3 or Xbox360 versions of the game.

PhysX works on both consoles, as well as the Wii and WiiU.

PhysX works on more hardware than TressFX, so your argument doesn't make any sense.

Look at your system specs, and maybe try the new beta drivers from NVidia that boost performance in Tomb Raider with TressFX by about 60% on average.

Also TressFX is DirectCompute accelerated. your GTX660ti like my 680 but even worse are weak with DirectCompute which is why performance is hit so hard with it enabled. :shadedshu

It isn't just about performance.

If the performance was terrible but the effect was actually good I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But her hair looks like a bunch of shit spaghetti stuck on her head.

No one wants that.

And simply rendering hair should not take that much directcompute power.

Midrange cards should be able to handle that.

Now if TressFX was used for explosions and a lot of things going on on screen then it could use a lot of directcompute power, but it isn't.

It is being used on hair so it shouldn't be using any directcompute power at all.

And everyone said that developers would start to use physics to improve games once a standard was released that worked on both nVidia and AMD, but obviously that didn't happen.

Developers were giving something that works on both and they decided it was best used to render hair.

Not all the cool stuff that it could have been used for.

Not destructible environments or explosions, no, they used it to render hair, and did a shitty job at it too.

 

[cadaveca]

and did a shitty job at it too.

I think this is because the entire world is not physic-reactive, so the hair itself isn't truly manipulated by the environment as in real life.

That said, they need runtimes for each little bit here, one by one..walls...dust, air, ground, persons, cloth, hair...and then they need to sync each up. You're not going to get any really decent physic-based effects until the world itself is actually 100% a physics object.. and we are many years away from that still.

This is simply step one. By a baby. Give that baby time to grow, and it might surprise you of what it is capable of.

 

[Xzibit]

I just wanted to revisit this statement because I learned something today.

TressFX isn't even included in the PS3 or Xbox360 versions of the game.

PhysX works on both consoles, as well as the Wii and WiiU.

PhysX works on more hardware than TressFX, so your argument doesn't make any sense.

And console dont accelerate PhysX when included in there games. Only PC versions of those game have acceleration and require Nvidia hardware to do so thru CUDA API.

If TressFX was a PhysX feature it would only be accelerated on Nvidia hardware.

The fact is TressFX works on both major PC GPUs Nvidia and AMD because its using Microsoft DirectX DirectCompute to accelerate not some proprietary API like PhysX Cuda.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

TressFX isn't a PhysX feature, it's what AMD came up with, and they've never jumped on Nvidia's PhysX bandwagon.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/02/26/amd-tressfx/

Note that physics is mentioned, but never once do they refer to "PhysX".

TressFX, like HDAO, works on both AMD and Nvidia GPUs, but AMD has the performance edge with much stronger direct compute power. If you ask me, Nvidia need to step up their game in this regard. They do OK on AA, but that's about it lately.

 

[Eric_Cartman]

The fact is TressFX works on both major PC GPUs Nvidia and AMD because its using Microsoft DirectX DirectCompute to accelerate not some proprietary API like PhysX Cuda.

I shouldn't have to explain the irony of your statement.

Anyone that thinks DirectX isn't a proprietary API is an idiot.

 

[OnePostWonder]

I shouldn't have to explain the irony of your statement.

Anyone that thinks DirectX isn't a proprietary API is an idiot.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about proprietary with regards to the hardware. DirectX is proprietary to the platform.

To elaborate, you could only use the DirectX API on a Microsoft platform. PhysX, however, can be used on a number of different platforms; Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, etc.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I shouldn't have to explain the irony of your statement.

Anyone that thinks DirectX isn't a proprietary API is an idiot.

He means DirectCompute, unlike PhysX, is not exclusive to Nvidia or AMD. Seems obvious to me.

That said, "proprietary" is a bit misleading because PhysX is free for AMD to use. AMD just never chose to get involved with it. Thus, it's only exclusive to Nvidia by AMD's choice.

The word "proprietary" often implies royalties paid, but in the case of PhysX, it's as free to use as any open source software, provided it's used on the platforms it's designed for.

 

[Xzibit]

I shouldn't have to explain the irony of your statement.

Anyone that thinks DirectX isn't a proprietary API is an idiot.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about proprietary with regards to the hardware. DirectX is proprietary to the platform.

To elaborate, you could only use the DirectX API on a Microsoft platform. PhysX, however, can be used on a number of different platforms; Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, etc.

Thats what I get for asuming he understands.

Should explain to him that PhysX is only accelerated on Windows PC platforms.

Any other platform its just a tool like any other middleware to enhance the game engine if a developer chooses to incorperate it.

 

[Eric_Cartman]

Thats what I get for asuming he understands.

Should explain to him that PhysX is only accelerated on Windows PC platforms.

Any other platform its just a tool like any other middleware to enhance the game engine if a developer chooses to incorperate it.

So you're saying that TressFX is so much better than PhysX because it uses a non-proprietary API, that is actually proprietary, because it allows hardware acceleration of hair on both nVidia and AMD hardware on Windows only while PhysX allows physics to be applied to more than just hair on Windows, OSX, Linux, Android, PS3, Xbox, etc.?

Yep, that makes perfect sense.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Stop confusing the platform base with proprietary. Proprietary only refers to whom developed and owns it. The platforms it's licensed for is an entirely different issue and not solely the decision of the proprietor.

 

[Xzibit]

The word "proprietary" often implies royalties paid, but in the case of PhysX, it's as free to use as any open source software, provided it's used on the platforms it's designed for.

Not too sure about that. Site say its free but when you read the EULA.

2. License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, NVIDIA grants you (“you”) a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable world-wide, royalty-free license to (a) internally install, use and display the PHYSX SDK, solely for purposes of developing PHYSX asset content for Physics Applications; (b) internally use, copy, modify and compile the Sample Code to design, develop and test PHYSX assets; and (c) reproduce and distribute the Redistributable Code only in object code form and only as fully integrated into Physics Applications, in each case solely for (i) your commercial purposes provided that you receive less than one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) in gross revenue associated with Physics Applications or (ii) your non-commercial purposes.

Its free unless you make $100,000 or more. Similar to Havok and if they charge the same they pretty much raping developers. The only differance there is Havok doesnt require you to be a marketing tool for them if your paying fees.
With PhysX you pretty much become a NasCar sponsored by Nvidia type deal.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Not too sure about that. Site say its free but when you read the EULA.

I'm not talking about royalties charged to developers, I'm referring to AMD having been offered things like CUDA and PhysX as free to use technologies. That said, I miss worded the sentence prior to referring to AMD's refusal to use it. It's been edited.

AMD refused, and I can understand why, just as I'd understand if Nvidia didn't want to use TressFX.

I happen to think the tech industry works best when there's more of an atmosphere of competition, it sparks innovation and keeps prices lower.

It's understandable royalties on such tech would scale for software developers, because they are merely using tech that the chip designers create. There's no cost for them to design, test or implement it into a chip. They merely apply it to their own projects, and are even given instruction on how to use it. It's similar to developers being charged a fee for using an engine they didn't create. It's also understandable small scale use of it would be free, so they can make things like tech demos to decide if they want to use it, or start up dev teams trying it out on small test projects.

Personally I don't get why Nvidia and others get blamed for such things. Does not Miicrosoft charge for Office? Does not Adobe charge for Photoshop?

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

Well it looks like TressFX runs better on an nvidia card with the latest nv beta drivers.. shaving off just 10.4% performance on the GTX680 with TressFX turned on as opposed to the 22.2% performance penalty from the overclocked HD7970.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/03/20/tomb_raider_video_card_performance_iq_review/6

And all this time I thought it was Kepler's crappy compute power that was holding it back.

 

[Xzibit]

Well it looks like TressFX runs better on an nvidia card with the latest nv beta drivers.. shaving off just 10.4% performance on the GTX680 with TressFX turned on as opposed to the 22.2% performance penalty from the overclocked HD7970.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/03/20/tomb_raider_video_card_performance_iq_review/6

And all this time I thought it was Kepler's crappy compute power that was holding it back.

After reading more on TressFX. It seams the initial AMD boost had more to do with the way AMD was handling instructions. The new Nvidia drivers fixed that so performance should be good on either manufacturer. If I can find the article again I'll link it.

Thats the way it should be. Tech that works good on both so the end user gets the benefit of the product they purchase.

 

[Bjorn_Of_Iceland]

Still doubtfull about the nvidia performance though.. I'm thinking nv driver shaving off a bit of image quality on TR to get those numbers... anybody wants to do an nv-amd comparison count on Lara's tressFx hair strands? jk

inb4 bald Lara jokes

 

[Xzibit]

Still doubtfull about the nvidia performance though.. I'm thinking nv driver shaving off a bit of image quality on TR to get those numbers... anybody wants to do a nv-amd comparison count on Lara's tressFx hair strands? jk

Stop joking around man...

Before someone bust out the DirectCompute to CUDA wrapper on you

Would be funny if either one was doing something like that. Like the old days.
Atleast we'd have something to talk about instead of just waiting for next gen cycle or next good game to come out.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Still doubtfull about the nvidia performance though.. I'm thinking nv driver shaving off a bit of image quality on TR to get those numbers...

If so, it certainly wouldn't be the first time Nvidia has done such things. I seem to recall an instance where a driver update of their's left a game with lots of texture pop-ins

 

[MxPhenom 216]

If so, it certainly wouldn't be the first time Nvidia has done such things. I seem to recall an instance where a driver update of their's left a game with lots of texture pop-ins

I think the last time I remember image quality not being the best with an NVidia driver update was with Crysis 1. Things in the distance looked so much better on an AMD card then Nvidia. When both were running AF x16

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Just updated to Nvidia new beta drivers. Heres the results for you guys 20FPS increase!

TressFX on 314.07 WHQL

TressFX on 314.21 Beta
For this one I kept shadow resolution to Medium, because that is what the Ultimate graphic setting used to set too before the High Shadow resolution setting was available.

 

[Drone]

nvidia this, amd that ... In the meanwhile

Lara Croft was supposed to be gay, writer reveals

Writer Rhianna Pratchett reveals that she originally wanted Lara Croft to be gay. She believes that having a gay character would be a very interesting change in videogames. However, she doesn't think the industry is ready for that yet. “There's a part of me that would've loved to make Lara gay. I'm not sure Crystal Dynamics would be ready for it!” said Pratchett.

Thoughts?

 

[Xzibit]

nvidia this, amd that ... In the meanwhile

Lara Croft was supposed to be gay, writer reveals



Thoughts?

I straighten her out for you guys

Your welcome


After reading it. It sounds more like a plea. If she had the desire to put a Lesbian Lara Croft she had her chance but i'm sure it was a money issue in the end. It always is.

 

[WhiteNoise]

nvidia this, amd that ... In the meanwhile

Lara Croft was supposed to be gay, writer reveals



Thoughts?

Doesn't bother me at all. Its a game character.

 

[BiggieShady]

nvidia this, amd that ... In the meanwhile

Lara Croft was supposed to be gay, writer reveals


Thoughts?

I have some thoughts for the writers

I don't like it.
She is the first 3D game character in the world.
Leave her alone!

Make up new characters and make them as gay as you want. Legends are off limits.