Apple STILL think they're immune!

[mediasorcerer]

I see it as, whats the point in taking sides, once you start doing that, the marketers have got you, its all good really, ive had a few mbpros and an imac, and im going to buy another one soon for a course im doing next year, that uses macs for graphic design. Big deal, i like there stuff, there are things about osx and apple hardware that sh*#it me, same as win too.
At the end of the day, whatever makes you happy, stuff that left right paradigm of siding with one company, its a wank.
Shame they are overpriced is the main thing i dont like, otherwise, they are good machines , tho not without issues too, as for lion, im not liking the idea of that much, seems like with every new iteration of the os, more control/options are taken away from the consumer,
and its happening with win 8 too i bet, forcing people to use cloud storage solutions like with new itunes and all that, i dont want the "cloud" for my personal items like music/movies/docs, they are just fine on MY HARDDRIVE.
technology is wonderful, but when it intrudes into our PERSONAL lives[especially when there is no "option"], its WRONG AND RUDE!

 

[IlluminAce]

This is an ancient topic of discussion, but in summary, there aren't that many in the wild Mac "viruses", since it's crafted from a BSD base. The nature of software installation practices in the *nix world versus the MS world plays a large part here. As for the natively superior security of *nix systems, MS is doing relatively well of late trying to catch up. Still, I wouldn't like to be the administrator for a large Windows network!

Antivirus applications on *nix systems mainly scan for Windows viruses and are intended to clean mail passing through the system on the way to Windows hosts. For *nix systems, there are rootkit scanners and suchlike, but these are mainly useful for unpatched, outdated systems. As ever, the most important thing isn't a £50 Kaspersky subscription - it's both understanding what you're doing when online/using external media, and ensuring all your web-facing services (those exposed on open ports) are up-to-date and configured correctly (with unnecessary services disabled and their ports closed). Additional factors could include solid network perimeter security, "tripwire" style systems, honeypots - the list goes on.

I certainly wouldn't advise *nix users to install "AV", and whilst I don't use Macs, I would struggle to see the need to advise proficient users to install "AV" there either. Basic security practices are much more important.

 

[Peter1986C]

Great post IlluminAce, though there a lot of users who have difficulties taking basic security measurements. Even proper file management is asked too much for them (I have seen some users who put everything on the desktop, lol).

 

[qubit]

This is an ancient topic of discussion, but in summary, there aren't that many in the wild Mac "viruses", since it's crafted from a BSD base. The nature of software installation practices in the *nix world versus the MS world plays a large part here. As for the natively superior security of *nix systems, MS is doing relatively well of late trying to catch up. Still, I wouldn't like to be the administrator for a large Windows network!

Antivirus applications on *nix systems mainly scan for Windows viruses and are intended to clean mail passing through the system on the way to Windows hosts. For *nix systems, there are rootkit scanners and suchlike, but these are mainly useful for unpatched, outdated systems. As ever, the most important thing isn't a £50 Kaspersky subscription - it's both understanding what you're doing when online/using external media, and ensuring all your web-facing services (those exposed on open ports) are up-to-date and configured correctly (with unnecessary services disabled and their ports closed). Additional factors could include solid network perimeter security, "tripwire" style systems, honeypots - the list goes on.

I certainly wouldn't advise *nix users to install "AV", and whilst I don't use Macs, I would struggle to see the need to advise proficient users to install "AV" there either. Basic security practices are much more important.

Where the hell have you been! Good post.

Talking of large corporate networks, even with that large "attack surface" that Windows has, infections are still few and far between - I'm thinking of our own corporate network here. This is even true although patches have to be tested by the IT team before being deployed on all the machines via a patch manager, which can delay a patch by a whole month. We run security software on every single PC and the core Active Directory servers, which is effective at picking up malware.

Of course, the moron behind the keyboard (and believe me a lot of them are ) is the most important factor. However, we are able to mitigate their stupidity with a slew of security measures, including having a rather draconian central proxy server sitting between hapless user and the internet.

I would disagree that Macs don't have to run security software. This is because as Windows ceases to be such a soft target and Macs become more popular, they become the softer target and the attacks are becoming more frequent and sophisticated. Here's a simple example of how even us knowledgeable enthusiast types can be nailed without security software: you browse to a known reputable web site. It's just been hacked with nasty drive-by malware that exploits your browser and OS's unpatched zero-day vulnerabilites and bam, your PC is silently infected - and you won't even know about it. Yes, the window of opportunity for the criminals is hopefully short, but with billions of users out there, there will be many who will get nailed before the exploit is closed, especially the clueless users. However, if that PC, Mac or Linux box were running security software, you stand a better chance of it picking up the attack, hopefully with its heuristic scanning ability if it doesn't have a signature for the attack yet.

Look, I have a very good free security package here for you to try, called QubitFixer. It's like the famous WinFixer, only better...

 

[eidairaman1]

seems the biggest threat to pc anymore is malware/spyware that hijacks webbrowsers- compared to viral activity

 

[IlluminAce]

Thanks Chevalr1c; you're quite right of course. For most people, 99% security will never be a realistic prospect to aim for - in many cases a 60-80% confidence range seems like a more appropriate target! (And this is not to "put down" those to whom this may apply; I guess some people have better things to do than stare at monitors or heatsinks all day... quite what escapes me though ).

I'm still here Q I know I haven't been around (anywhere) much lately. Work has been exceeding busy, and the little remaining time has been occupied by an unmissable combo: tweaking Ace1's ZFS pools, and solemnly mourning the sudden death of Ace2's 2600. I'm accepting donations for funeral ceremony.

... but back to topic. Absolutely, it's surprising how often important patches are delayed, regardless of the threat posed. It's the whole practicality vs security issue again... 100% security = a useless (well, non-existant) system. 0% security = a superbly useful system. The "right" balance is often hard to find.

Drive-by attacks, XSS, and suchlike... sure, the threats exist. But most reputable sites should be ensuring that such vulnerabilities are few and far between. More and more automated tools exist these days to detect such opportunities. Experienced users will be running their browsers in sandboxes/VMs anyway (you don't honestly think your browser is secure do you?). But back to the real world, utility vs security... what level of FS scanning and heureustics has the average user actually got enabled for 0day detection? The defaults are often pretty pathetic, otherwise these sub-par systems slow to a crawl under the strain of scanning every file access in intimite detail. And who wants to pay for software that kills their system?

I mean I agree, less adept users will typically benefit many times over from having security software installed on Windows boxes. I honestly don't think the same applies to Macs quite yet. Getting worms to run on a BSD base, and actually spread over the sparse density of Macs on the Internet (by the way, is the Mac population actually expanding...?) is no mean feat. There are few examples which have proved to be real successes, in contrast to their Windows brethren.

On the other hand, to protect yourself against hand-crafted individual attacks from highly determined attackers... you have to be seriously prepared, sonny jim! Like our trustworthy resident security consultant says, install QubitFixer... guaranteed security for the one-off price of £100. Be sure to disable your AV, anti-malware and firewall tools first though, since this software is so powerful it may conflict!

 

[eightclicknine]

seems the biggest threat to pc anymore is malware/spyware that hijacks webbrowsers- compared to viral activity

And crapware, and ancient resource hogging legacy programs

 

[AndreYoung]

a sexy chastity belt though. sort of like silk lingerie you can't remove.

Apple has been awesome brand. I really appreciate your words but apple apps are now part of our lifestyle

 

[SaiZo]

I have always seen Macs to be a "strange" PC, same hardware (Intel, ATI etc.) but with another OS instead of Windows.

 

[ste2425]

or my favourite

EDIT: WHOA Holy Thread Revival Batman!!!!

 

[RejZoR]

Hey, thats FacePhone in Picard's palm...

 

[GreiverBlade]

Hey, thats FacePhone in Picard's palm...

nono he's just using FaceTime the wrong way ...

well true fact : (by easy i mean : Apple direct all as they want it to be, so the user is more assisted than if he got a concurent counterpart)

Mac: Easy pc with premium price (Aka i have the same hardware but cost 1k $$$ more at minimum)

iMac: oh look a AIO well doesnt take place but it does take you an arm and leg to get the "decent one" to have any use of it beside spreadsheet and text edit.

Mac Pro: oh my god ... dont start on that one ... :AMD 5770 or 5870??? for 3k $$$ ? really?

MacBook : repeat the sentence of the Mac above. (switching pc with "laptop")

MacBook Air: ... you know the story.

i/Phone/Pad/Pod/Insertrandom : Easy version of any concurent counterpart.

Wrong fact :

Mac doesnt get Virus, wrong just the "virus" use a unexpected part of the Mac to install and spread : The Chair keyboard interface Aka: the Organical part of the computer (since people think they are safer on a Mac, they tend to be more fooled easly.) this also work for pc (i never had any sort of problem with Windows, neither with macOS)

so basically : Apple product are for those who think security as a "material price" and require a "Jail OS" to be safe.

Indeed they are good product, stable easy to use once you get it, but they cost way too much. (look at iPhone producing cost versus selling price and compare with the Nexus 4 for exemple (yes yes i know nex4 299 only in the google store and not enough supply ... its more 499$ in physical shops but still))

also : Sapphire Mac Edition HD7950 3gb : 440$(no boost bios ofc )
Sapphire HD7950 3gb 280$

i used both (for work or hobbies) i prefere pc over mac but i tend to think Apple product are too expensive for what they are ... lucky for them they have fanboy who believe only Apple is good and buy day one any product they do

 

[chaotic_uk]

Yeah man you limey bastards are missing the sarcasm left and right! The riots have made you dull!

I find this offensive !

 

[d1nky]

omfg!! i see the jokes on the brits because one of us missed the good ol' humour!!

and that jolly good, pip carry on! was lame!! cmon!

ya all guna get it soon haha

and to stay on point, i didnt even know mac still existed. thought they spiritualised and become one with the universe lol

oh yea all the 'i' shit, i phone home, i pad, i broke, i what.....who gives a ****

 

[ste2425]

oh yea all the 'i' shit, i phone home, i pad, i broke, i what.....who gives a ****

Just reminded me of the film Hook Where hook is trying to teach peters kids and then does the speech trying to convince them there parents don't love them. "I I I, Me, Me, ME, Now Now, Now, Want, Want, Want"

 

[Black Panther]

Apple has been awesome brand. I really appreciate your words but apple apps are now part of our lifestyle

This thread was created in August 2011. Please don't dig up threads which are so old, they've long out-lived their purpose.