Independent Funding (Kickstarter, Patreon, Indiegogo, etc...): For dummies

[lilhasselhoffer]

Hello all,


It seems like every week you find somebody wants more money for crazy stuff. They pose these insane ideas, and somehow get people to give them money. I thought it'd be nice to have a place to go, and laugh at some of this stuff.


So, first off I've got a Back to the Future style hoverboard: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1690998653/magnetic-hoverboard-i-think-yes?ref=discovery

They claim to have invented mono-pole magnets strong enough to levitate a person and seemingly fly on every surface. Apparently a basic understanding of magnetism allows you to make a non-dangerous magical device that magnetically floats over non-ferrous surfaces.



Next, I have someone selling pixels. No joke here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/543991739/pixelmenowcom?ref=discovery



Finally, a free energy source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1522712959/free-electricity-device-randd?ref=discovery

Never mind that the theories were disproven a decade ago. Never mind that he has admitted to falsifying data. I'm betting anybody who needs a good laugh can spend five minutes here, and feel better about whatever it is they did today: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/John_Hutchison





Got more, please share them. I posted about the space howitzer before, but humanity seems to find new ways to fail every day. We can at least have a good laugh about it here.

 

[AsRock]

Stupid as it sounds maybe some people have not given in and have hope haha.. Although i would not be surprised most of the idea's have not failed for one or more reasons.

How ever tat said the one with the magnesium rods and copper pipes made me think of these toys my daughter likes which work of a panel like you see of calculators and they just move back and forth.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Another fun batch.

This one is commendable for their aspirations, but might be a bit more successful if they understood basic physics. https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-underwater-breathing-apparatus?ref=discovery The problem, put simply, is fluid pressure. At about a meter deep the pressure exerted on your body by the fluid is so great that the lungs cannot expand. No expansion, no breathing, and no use for a snorkle. I'm not sure if our intrepid friend understands this, and I'd be interested to see them test a rigid 1 meter snorkle to prove that this is the case.

I'd hazard the statement that this kickstarter could learn a lot from another one: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...nderwater-breathing-system-just?ref=discovery They've got pressurized tubes so that 7' (2+ meters) deep pool can actually be traversed.



Standard BS here. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/285770964/eleedoor-light-your-house-with-clean-energy-doors?ref=discovery. These people seem to not have a plan for power storage, not have any facts or figures, and seem to suggest that solar panels are sturdy enough to plaster on garage doors and the like. I commend the hope, but hope without a plan is idiocy.



Sign one that a mariage will fail: you cannot trust your spouse. Rather than calling it off, confronting the issue, or demonstrating their infidelity why not just track their lying selves? This project is the ultimate in sad surveilance: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1275548632/trustee?ref=discovery



Here's one I'm leaning on being reasonable. I know, I know, that's not in my cynical nature. There are problems with this (mostly thermodynamic), but it actually makes solar energy something worth looking into: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...wheel-energy-storage-by-energie?ref=discovery They've got conversion losses from sun-dc-ac-mechanical-electrical, losses from friction, and they seem to think they can generate a perpetual perfect vacuum. While some of the things they are saying are moronic, I hope this project actually succeeds and makes solar power plants a more viable option.



This final one slays me. If it were actually feasible to do this then auto manufacturers would already be doing it. It wouldn't be about so conspiracy between auto manufacturers and the oil companies, it'd be about exceeding fuel consumption requirements while still selling the hugely profitable SUV class vehicles: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/973831955/fuel-x-tender?ref=discovery I've seen plenty of these things, but the person selling this is completely bonkers. 40-50% decreases in fuel consumption aren't possible by the laws of physics. You'd have half as much fuel, so you'd have 50% less potential energy. Even if combustion went from 85% to 99% completion (all CO2 and H2O coming out the tail pipe), that would mean less energy. Less energy means less heat, less expansion, less pressure, and thus less power.

They already have turbo chargers that do exactly this. More pressure, more completely atomized fuel, and thus better efficiency and power. Problem is they increase fuel efficiency by only 20%, while decreasing fuel consumption by 15%. This doesn't jibe with a 40-50% increase, and most assuredly isn't an easy installation. Once you combine this with the requirement of a replacement part every 15,000 miles, the hand waving about how a transducer somehow stays together on a vibrating engine, and the absolute non-answer of integration with the vehicle's control systems you've got a rather untrustworthy proposition. Maybe it'll decrease a 1980's vehicle's consumption substantially, but I don't see how in Hades this thing does anything different from what the fuel injectors already do.

 

[AphexDreamer]

Well the pixel one isn't anything new.

http://www.milliondollarhomepage.com/

This kid made a million dollars selling space for 1$ a pixel.

Also apparently the crystal power cells do work. Probably going to make one myself.

However, I doubt that guy would make any serious breakthrough with his kickstarter. Probably trying to make some cash off something very little understood but works. I don't see a large scale modern use for it happening ever...

 

[Vario]

Have there been any ponzis on these sites?

what stops someone from making a whole ton of different "Charities" under different names/ips and scamming small amounts of $ from a lot of people.

No ones gonna pursue someone for $1-5 lost but collectively a thief could really haul it in.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Well the pixel one isn't anything new.

http://www.milliondollarhomepage.com/

This kid made a million dollars selling space for 1$ a pixel.

Also apparently the crystal power cells do work. Probably going to make one myself.

However, I doubt that guy would make any serious breakthrough with his kickstarter. Probably trying to make some cash off something very little understood but works. I don't see a large scale modern use for it happening ever...

I'm not sure whether to thank you, or cry for humanity's future. Stupid pixels....


Perhaps you can do a little more background before claiming that this is a viable option. I say this because the guy who put this onto youtube did not, and I'd trust someone on this forum more than those idiots.

Let's debunk this crap quickly, because the youtube video is filled with idiot comments.



First, crystals can be used as transducers. Transducers can convert one type of signal into another type. In this case, electromagnetic radiation is turned into electromechanical potential (radio waves to electricity). This is demonstrably a real thing, as a radio would not work without it.

Our subject hypothesizes that a crystal can be created out of some household materials. This is also demonstrably true, as anyone who has been to a science museum has seem grow your own crystal kits..

Our subject then goes off the deep end. They state that the crystals that he says he can make will therefore be able to convert ambient radio waves into an operable power source. That's fantastic, assuming that it were possible.


What the subject introduces is a magnesium core, copper jacketed "crystal energy" source. The magnesium and copper are connected by a solidified alum, potassium, and borax mixture. Oh dear lord, we've gone from crystals into chemistry. Hold onto your seats.

Magnesium and copper have very different oxidization states. Our "crystal" material is functionally just a conductive matrix, facilitating a chemical battery. Gasp, but how do I prove that this is absolute crap, well I could tell the presenter to put the battery and motor into a metal box, and see if it still ran. The metal prevents radio waves, so the motor should stop immediately if it were actual crystal transduced power. I could also ask about a bit of historic data on batteries. There's a substantial amount of historic data on magnesium copper dry cells. I could also suggest that the "crystal" be replaced by an acidic aqueous solution, which would also allow this battery to work. I'm going to go with the biggest middle finger though, resonance frequency is very important so the description of "the formula is an approximation" means this moron doesn't understand that crystal structure and composition influence resonance frequencies. If you can't explain something it isn't magic.

As to the "proof" that these things last years, they should last a couple of years. Your standard AA and AAA batteries are based on similar oxidation-reduction reactions, and they are rated for years of operation. These suckers have less surface area, and more volume. Both parts of that equation imply a much longer operational lifetime.


In summary, go back to chemistry and don't try to sell magical BS as science. All of this should be clear to anyone who passed chemistry in high school.


Edit:
I meant this comment for the person who did the video, not anyone here. Upon a second reading it sounds like I'm being an insufferable ass, and I apologize for this. Please accept my apologies if you read it this way.

Have there been any ponzis on these sites?

what stops someone from making a whole ton of different "Charities" under different names/ips and scamming small amounts of $ from a lot of people.

No ones gonna pursue someone for $1-5 lost but collectively a thief could really haul it in.

I'd point you to the high failure rate of game deliveries, the battery free RFID tags that were just pulled because of their BS nature, and the dramatic failures of some very high profile projects (Ouya, Occulus Rift, etc....).


Despite saying this, I'm still a fan of the idea. An idea deserves to stand on its own merit, and be judged. I support some of these projects, and I'd love it if the people who proposed them came into the discussion and adequately defended their projects. As yet, it seems like people make up projects without any thought. Those who propose a good idea need to be lauded, and the bad ideas need to be eviscerated. Only then can independent funding be a acceptable risk for everyone to take.

 

[FX-GMC]

I'm not sure whether to thank you, or cry for humanity's future. Stupid pixels....


Perhaps you can do a little more background before claiming that this is a viable option. I say this because the guy who put this onto youtube did not, and I'd trust someone on this forum more than those idiots.

Let's debunk this crap quickly, because the youtube video is filled with idiot comments.



First, crystals can be used as transducers. Transducers can convert one type of signal into another type. In this case, electromagnetic radiation is turned into electromechanical potential (radio waves to electricity). This is demonstrably a real thing, as a radio would not work without it.

Our subject hypothesizes that a crystal can be created out of some household materials. This is also demonstrably true, as anyone who has been to a science museum has seem grow your own crystal kits..

Our subject then goes off the deep end. They state that the crystals that he says he can make will therefore be able to convert ambient radio waves into an operable power source. That's fantastic, assuming that it were possible.


What the subject introduces is a magnesium core, copper jacketed "crystal energy" source. The magnesium and copper are connected by a solidified alum, potassium, and borax mixture. Oh dear lord, we've gone from crystals into chemistry. Hold onto your seats.

Magnesium and copper have very different oxidization states. Our "crystal" material is functionally just a conductive matrix, facilitating a chemical battery. Gasp, but how do I prove that this is absolute crap, well I could tell the presenter to put the battery and motor into a metal box, and see if it still ran. The metal prevents radio waves, so the motor should stop immediately if it were actual crystal transduced power. I could also ask about a bit of historic data on batteries. There's a substantial amount of historic data on magnesium copper dry cells. I could also suggest that the "crystal" be replaced by an acidic aqueous solution, which would also allow this battery to work. I'm going to go with the biggest middle finger though, resonance frequency is very important so the description of "the formula is an approximation" means this moron doesn't understand that crystal structure and composition influence resonance frequencies. If you can't explain something it isn't magic.

As to the "proof" that these things last years, they should last a couple of years. Your standard AA and AAA batteries are based on similar oxidation-reduction reactions, and they are rated for years of operation. These suckers have less surface area, and more volume. Both parts of that equation imply a much longer operational lifetime.


In summary, go back to chemistry and don't try to sell magical BS as science. All of this should be clear to anyone who passed chemistry in high school.




I'd point you to the high failure rate of game deliveries, the battery free RFID tags that were just pulled because of their BS nature, and the dramatic failures of some very high profile projects (Ouya, Occulus Rift, etc....).


Despite saying this, I'm still a fan of the idea. An idea deserves to stand on its own merit, and be judged. I support some of these projects, and I'd love it if the people who proposed them came into the discussion and adequately defended their projects. As yet, it seems like people make up projects without any thought. Those who propose a good idea need to be lauded, and the bad ideas need to be eviscerated. Only then can independent funding be a acceptable risk for everyone to take.

What is the Occulus Rift? Was somebody trying to rip off the Oculus?

My spelling is....less than accurate here. I was referring to the same device. Kickstarted, beta prototyped, then bought out by Face book. FB didn't want to supply the money to develop the idea when it started, they didn't want to get involved during the prototyping and alpha testing, but once the prototype was completed they made a community funded success into something FB could buy without even acknowledging that the only reason it existed was individuals putting up the money for development.

While a bit idealistic, I think FB should have been forced to develop their own device. They spent heavily on acquiring the rights, but got enough publicity and free development to more than make it a financial win before a single unit was sold. The community bore the risks of development, but got none of the rewards when Oculus was bought out. Kinda stings.

I agree with what you said here, but (business practices aside) I wouldn't call anything about the Oculus or its Kickstarter a failure. Without the Kickstarter would it have gotten all the attention it has now? Hard to say, but it does have all that attention now and the backers got exactly what they were promised. Sounds like a successful Kickstarter to me.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

What is the Occulus Rift? Was somebody trying to rip off the Oculus?

My spelling is....less than accurate here. I was referring to the same device. Kickstarted, beta prototyped, then bought out by Face book. FB didn't want to supply the money to develop the idea when it started, they didn't want to get involved during the prototyping and alpha testing, but once the prototype was completed they made a community funded success into something FB could buy without even acknowledging that the only reason it existed was individuals putting up the money for development.

While a bit idealistic, I think FB should have been forced to develop their own device. They spent heavily on acquiring the rights, but got enough publicity and free development to more than make it a financial win before a single unit was sold. The community bore the risks of development, but got none of the rewards when Oculus was bought out. Kinda stings.

 

[Vario]

crystal power cell debunk

Maybe he was basing his idea off of the Protoss.

LHH what field do you work/study? Just curious, you seem to bring a lot of brain power to everything.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Maybe he was basing his idea off of the Protoss.

LHH what field do you work/study? Just curious, you seem to bring a lot of brain power to everything.

I'm...let's call it quality assurance.


I trained to be a mechanical engineer. Between accelerated classes in high school (managed a 5 on AP chemistry, which is why I got about one minute into that crystal power video before my BS alarms went off), and four years of hell, you manage to pick up a little of everything. Whether I've liked it or not, I try make sure I don't get fuzzy on the basics. Beyond anatomy and biology I think I've done well enough. If I try to comment there please call me on my BS.




Edit:
On a side note, I have to apologize for things I've said. Social interaction, or more specifically filtering myself, is often something I don't do well. It all sounds great in my head, but often comes out less so.

 

[AphexDreamer]

I'm...let's call it quality assurance.


I trained to be a mechanical engineer. Between accelerated classes in high school (managed a 5 on AP chemistry, which is why I got about one minute into that crystal power video before my BS alarms went off), and four years of hell, you manage to pick up a little of everything. Whether I've liked it or not, I try make sure I don't get fuzzy on the basics. Beyond anatomy and biology I think I've done well enough. If I try to comment there please call me on my BS.

Which video are you commenting on, the one you or I posted?

 

[Scrizz]

lol I thought the title had a different F word. lmao

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Which video are you commenting on, the one you or I posted?

To my knowledge I have not explicitly posted a video. The kickstarter pages often have them.

In this instance, the video from the kickstarter is the same as the one you linked to. As it is the same thing, there should be no differentiation....unless I'm not seeing something that you are...?

 

[AphexDreamer]

To my knowledge I have not explicitly posted a video. The kickstarter pages often have them.

In this instance, the video from the kickstarter is the same as the one you linked to. As it is the same thing, there should be no differentiation....unless I'm not seeing something that you are...?

Well they are not the same. One goes into detail as to how its made, the other talks about absurd potential uses for it.
However, I can't find where anyone absolutely claims to know whether this is a product of chemical reactions or something else.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

My apologies.

The absurd theory one is exactly that.

The one from laser hacker is a how to guide, claiming magic, and its the one I was focusing on. There are no videos debunking this crap, because it was debunked by professional scientists years ago.


Should you be interested in why, and not believe everything else I've presented, there's another thing you can do. Replace the magnesium inside the cell with copper. If that is not an adequate response, break out a chemistry text book, look up electronegativity values for the ions of these metals, and you'll duplicate my earlier statements.

 

[AphexDreamer]

My apologies.

The absurd theory one is exactly that.

The one from laser hacker is a how to guide, claiming magic, and its the one I was focusing on. There are no videos debunking this crap, because it was debunked by professional scientists years ago.


Should you be interested in why, and not believe everything else I've presented, there's another thing you can do. Replace the magnesium inside the cell with copper. If that is not an adequate response, break out a chemistry text book, look up electronegativity values for the ions of these metals, and you'll duplicate my earlier statements.

Whats the magic part he is calming exactly? He shows it working but I'm not sure exactly how long he had it working.

Also what do you expect to occur with a higher or lower electronegativity?

 

[Easy Rhino]

I am selling "Thanks." For $100 I will "Thank" your post. You will feel so good knowing that Easy Rhino thanked your post here on TPU. You may find yourself paying thousands!

 

[z1tu]

I am selling "Thanks." For $100 I will "Thank" your post. You will feel so good knowing that Easy Rhino thanked your post here on TPU. You may find yourself paying thousands!

Already ahead of you, I've also taken the liberty of providing you with One Free Thanks as a sample and a 25% discount on all future purchases for my Thanks Packs which come in 10's, 20's 50's and the fabulous Lifetime Thanks! PM me for a quote :-D

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Whats the magic part he is calming exactly? He shows it working but I'm not sure exactly how long he had it working.

Also what do you expect to occur with a higher or lower electronegativity?

Sigh.


Basic chemistry here. Electronegativities, in a round about way, determines ionic states for atoms. More accurately, it describes the relative affinity for gaining of losing electrons to fill or half fill electron shells. Magnesium and copper have different electronegativities (one + and the other -), so they are likely to transfer outer shell electrons to each other.

This, in the simplest terms, is a galvanic cell. AA, AAA, D, and C cells you'd buy at a store all use a galvanic process to generate electrical potential. You'd refer to this as a voltage.


Now, a smart person would be linking my earlier statements about the "crystal" and an acidic solution together. Let's assume that this did not happen, and we're still lost on why the video producer is a moron.


The video cites the "crystal" power cell running a motor and LED for the last two years. This begins at about 28 seconds and goes to 33 seconds.
The presenter completely dismisses proper ratios from 2:45 to 3:00.
The presenter says he's putting a spacer into the bottom to "prevent the magnesium core from being forced out" from 4:35 to 4:40.

To point one, a low power draw, large battery can do this easily. Think about a few D cells in parallel, and it's not hard to see.
To point two, crystal structure influences resonance. If the crystal was providing power you'd have to have an exact formula to create a proper crystal.
Again to point two, metals+salts will make ion transference channels for the compounds cited. These channels conduct potential from copper to magnesium.
Finally, at point three the presenter is an idiot savant. The reason it is forced up is a massive reaction along the copper magnesium interface. You've proven that it isn't the crystal generating any energy here.


Now, if you've still got questions please continue to ask. The presenter has proven that no crystals transduce energy. They have proven that they are producing a galvanic dry cell battery, and they've proven they shouldn't be allowed to play with anything more dangerous than a spoon.

If you really need me to, I'll show you the math. I didn't like galvanic reactions, but it's all simple enough.

 

[z1tu]

Sigh.


Basic chemistry here. Electronegativities, in a round about way, determines ionic states for atoms. More accurately, it describes the relative affinity for gaining of losing electrons to fill or half fill electron shells. Magnesium and copper have different electronegativities (one + and the other -), so they are likely to transfer outer shell electrons to each other.

This, in the simplest terms, is a galvanic cell. AA, AAA, D, and C cells you'd buy at a store all use a galvanic process to generate electrical potential. You'd refer to this as a voltage.


Now, a smart person would be linking my earlier statements about the "crystal" and an acidic solution together. Let's assume that this did not happen, and we're still lost on why the video producer is a moron.


The video cites the "crystal" power cell running a motor and LED for the last two years. This begins at about 28 seconds and goes to 33 seconds.
The presenter completely dismisses proper ratios from 2:45 to 3:00.
The presenter says he's putting a spacer into the bottom to "prevent the magnesium core from being forced out" from 4:35 to 4:40.

To point one, a low power draw, large battery can do this easily. Think about a few D cells in parallel, and it's not hard to see.
To point two, crystal structure influences resonance. If the crystal was providing power you'd have to have an exact formula to create a proper crystal.
Again to point two, metals+salts will make ion transference channels for the compounds cited. These channels conduct potential from copper to magnesium.
Finally, at point three the presenter is an idiot savant. The reason it is forced up is a massive reaction along the copper magnesium interface. You've proven that it isn't the crystal generating any energy here.


Now, if you've still got questions please continue to ask. The presenter has proven that no crystals transduce energy. They have proven that they are producing a galvanic dry cell battery, and they've proven they shouldn't be allowed to play with anything more dangerous than a spoon.

If you really need me to, I'll show you the math. I didn't like galvanic reactions, but it's all simple enough.

Yeah, I know some of those words...

 

[Frick]

The hoff's got the aspies real hard.

I don't mind people spending money on stupid things. If people were not allowed to do that this forum would never be.

 

[Vario]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/867054068/daymak-beast

WOW A GREEN BICYCLE!

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...on-phones-turned-to-forest-guar?ref=discovery

EACH DEVICE WE INSTALL IS THE EQUIVALENT OF TAKING 3000 CARS OFF THE ROAD!

 

[Frick]

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...on-phones-turned-to-forest-guar?ref=discovery

That's not a bad idea though. Deforestation the way it's done now IS pretty bad. And the people involved puts it at a slightly different level than other stuff in this thread.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

The hoff's got the aspies real hard.

I don't mind people spending money on stupid things. If people were not allowed to do that this forum would never be.

I was unaware of that reference to Asperger's Syndrome. Much obliged for the information, and maybe a sheepish agreement to the condition.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Another head scratcher here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1351709250/oceanic-water-pressure-electriticy?ref=discovery

Apparently the idea is to put a water wheel and inlet at the bottom of the ocean with a tube of air going to the surface. Because water has a higher density than air, the pressure exerted by the water would be much greater than the pressure exerted by the air at great depths in the ocean. The variance in pressure between the air inside the tube and water outside it could theoretically be used to drive a water wheel.

The only problem with this is the obvious. The water has to go somewhere, and in order to keep that pressure differential we'd have to pump any water from the wheel out of the tube. This means any energy that could be generated would immediately be consumed by the pump at the top of the tube. Not only this, but if we model the system as simply experiencing hoop stress (the tube functionally is an infinite series of circle cuts experiencing a constant force based upon pressure differential between two material of varying density), the 4000m deep figure would require several feet of concrete and steel to prevent a collapse.

I am infinitely surprised that this guy got 60 pounds from backers. All I'd need is a straw and a thick milkshake to demonstrate that this method of energy harvesting is bogus. 5 pounds maximum.