Full Review: 9800GX2 vs HD3870X2!!!

[das müffin mann]

yes they are, the gx2 is nvidias answer to the x2, we were expecting the x2 to beat the gx2 based on early benches of the card didn't look to promising

 

[Sasqui]

Funny, about 1.5 years ago, I wrote a post - wondering when they were going to make dual GPU cards... SLI in a card or XFire in a card, whatever! Took a while, and they aren't anywhere as pretty as I imagined... they are beasts.

Question: When are they going to make dual-core GPU's?

My guess = 1 yr. Has anyone heard of any plans released by AMD or NVDA or INTC?

 

[reviewhunter]

Why, was anyone expecting the HD3870X2 to beat the 9800GX2?

They are not meant to be competitors as far as I know.

Nah, not even with GDDR4.

Why do you say so?

 

[erocker]

Why, was anyone expecting the HD3870X2 to beat the 9800GX2?

They are not meant to be competitors as far as I know.

Very good point. I sure in the heck didn't. Good for Nvidia for making a powerful card, I hope this time around they will continue to support thier dual pcb wonder. It's going to be and has always been a back and forth battle. The one plus of the 3870x2 is that it can work on most motherboards, while the GX2 will only work with SLi boards, so far anyways.

Nah, not even with GDDR4.

Why do you say so?

Both price and performance don't match up.

 

[yogurt_21]

Huh! I haven't seen any in depth review about this that said one is over the other. Most of the ones said they are pretty similar. Well I haven't seen any in depth IQ review anyway, except the ones at TechReport. Have you any link, please?

Even this is really hard to pick from. If you want to knit pick, you may find that from one small part, it seems the filtering is a little sharper on the NVIDIA:

http://sg.vr-zone.com/articles/ATi_Radeon_2000_Series_Launch:_X2900XT_Review/4946-15.html
http://sg.vr-zone.com/articles/ATi_Radeon_2000_Series_Launch:_X2900XT_Review/4946-16.html

 

[imperialreign]

Funny, about 1.5 years ago, I wrote a post - wondering when they were going to make dual GPU cards... SLI in a card or XFire in a card, whatever! Took a while, and they aren't anywhere as pretty as I imagined... they are beasts.

Question: When are they going to make dual-core GPU's?

My guess = 1 yr. Has anyone heard of any plans released by AMD or NVDA or INTC?

yes, AMD/ATI has had plans for a dual-core GPU since at least late 07, possibly earlier. It's supposed to be the R700 GPU, and will feature two cores on the same die, supposedly communicating utilizing AMD's hypertransport, and the GPU is also rumored to support GDDR5. Release for this GPU has been rumored to be with the HD5000 series, which, IIRC, is slated for 4Q 08 or 1Q 09.

after the initial rumor of the 3870x2, I got the feeling ATI was testing the waters with that card, and it's success will determine their road map. Sure enough, the card went over better than anyone expected, and we start getting our first rumors of the HD4000 series, which will include a 4870x2, also.

I forsee the HD5000 series to also include a 5870x2 - which would mean 2 dual-core GPUs on one card . . . single PCB quad fire.

 

[reviewhunter]

hey, do read the review again, seems like the author, the one in English, updated the review.
http://lly316.blogspot.com/2008/03/geforce-9800-gx2-vs-radeon-hd-3870-x2.html

Now its says:

CoJ --> Although the 9800 GX2 is 1 fps faster than the AMD, but it was unable to run the benchmark with 4xAA turn on. It happened at the moment the benchmark begins, it bounced right back into desktop. Therefore, the score is recorded as zero.


UT3--> Correction:
Just like the previous game benchmarks, 9800 GX2 took the lead easily without AA.
But performance decreased drastically with 4xAA/16xAF turned on, resulting with a single digit fps on the average. Thus the score is once again recorded as zero. (There were no errors encountered here)


WIC--> Again, when AA is turned on for the GeForce 9800 GX2, an error message appears. Thus the score is recorded as zero.

 

[gOJDO]

expect significant performance improvement and a lot of fixes with a new driver soon.

 

[kenkickr]

I watch alot of movies on my system so there for the 3870X2 wins my money.

 

[Sasqui]

yes, AMD/ATI has had plans for a dual-core GPU since at least late 07, possibly earlier. It's supposed to be the R700 GPU, and will feature two cores on the same die, supposedly communicating utilizing AMD's hypertransport, and the GPU is also rumored to support GDDR5. Release for this GPU has been rumored to be with the HD5000 series, which, IIRC, is slated for 4Q 08 or 1Q 09.

Cool thanks, just curious where you picked that up...

 

[DarkMatter]

http://sg.vr-zone.com/articles/ATi_Radeon_2000_Series_Launch:_X2900XT_Review/4946-15.html
http://sg.vr-zone.com/articles/ATi_Radeon_2000_Series_Launch:_X2900XT_Review/4946-16.html

Hmm, in the review they say that when maximum quality settings are enabled Nvidia has better anisotropic and Ati better AA. But that makes the game look a bit sharper on Nvidia's card when using lower settings, but they are alot closer in appearance on those. (Higher settings are not usually possible anyway)
Interestingly enough that was the same conclusion that I extracted from my personal experience. My monitor has two inputs and I can go from one to the other with a switch, so I plugged one of my friends' PC alongside mine and we did some comparisons. But TBH differences were really small, and I could only see the differences clearly when I pumped up resolution to the max (2056x1536) and got really close to the screen. Even in that article is clear that they are using massive zoom to see the differences. Still at normal size there are subtle differences, but not in favor of any of the two, I used to like 8800 more, while my friend liked HD3870's appearance. When zoomed in some areas could look worse than what they do when zoomed out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-aliasing Look at figure 2. and what they say about it.

Bottom line is both are at the same level with some subtle differences, some people like Ati's while others like Nvidia's, but difference is not enough to represent a purchase decision. When someone buys one instead of the other strongly believing he is buying better IQ, well, he is buying a quimera.

 

[gOJDO]

I watch alot of movies on my system so there for the 3870X2 wins my money.

You can watch movies on any integrated graphics and there won't be any difference compared to any other graphics card(actually you don't need a 3D accelerator for that purpose). For HD, you need a decent CPU and a Radeon 3850 or GeForce 8800GS.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

You can watch movies on any integrated graphics and there won't be any difference compared to any other graphics card(actually you don't need a 3D accelerator for that purpose). For HD, you need a decent CPU and a Radeon 3850 or GeForce 8800GS.

That's were you are wrong. The HD does offer better IQ when it comes to moves over the Geforce. Anyone who (like myself) had the opportunity to view both cards should tell you that. No reason to lie about this.

 

[DarkMatter]

That's were you are wrong. The HD does offer better IQ when it comes to moves over the Geforce. Anyone who (like myself) had the opportunity to view both cards should tell you that. No reason to lie about this.

But IMO almost negligible, I can barely notice a worthy difference. Not only IMO anyway, look at post #19, MaximumPC. If near 100% of specialists can't say one is better than the other...

As stated like 100000 times. The difference in IQ can't justify the purchase of one over the other in performance/enthusiast parts. You are free to buy an HD3450 for movies, because there, that minimal IQ can lead to a purchase because there's no performance concerns there. But on $250+ hardware sacrificing 20% of performance because an IQ difference on movies (TBH you don't pay that much for movies, but for games) that not even specialists can notice, is plain stupid.

 

[newtekie1]

Agreed, the IQ different is 100% negligible, if there really even is an IQ different.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

But IMO almost negligible, I can barely notice a worthy difference. Not only IMO anyway, look at post #19, MaximumPC. If near 100% of specialists can't say one is better than the other...

As stated like 100000 times. The difference in IQ can't justify the purchase of one over the other in performance/enthusiast parts. You are free to buy an HD3450 for movies, because there, that minimal IQ can lead to a purchase because there's no performance concerns there. But on $250+ hardware sacrificing 20% of performance because an IQ difference on movies (TBH you don't pay that much for movies, but for games) that not even specialists can notice, is plain stupid.

Video playback on both video cards are very distinct, negligible is simply a play on words. The differences in IQ between the 2 are obvious, unlike the differences in AF.
Lets not draw comparisons between video play back and video games.

 

[newtekie1]

Video playback on both video cards are very distinct, negligible is simply a play on words. The differences in IQ between the 2 or obvious, unlike the differences in AF.
Lets not draw comparisons between video play back and video games.

Really, if they are really that different, how come 5 people picked nVidia as having better IQ? Yes, 7 picked ATI, but if the different is so obvious, not a single person should have picked nVidia. The IQ difference is gone, admit it and move on and find some other reason to justify buying overpriced hardware.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Really, if they are really that different, how come 5 people picked nVidia as having better IQ? Yes, 7 picked ATI, but if the different is so obvious, not a single person should have picked nVidia. The IQ difference is going, admit it and move on and find some other reason to justify buying overpriced hardware.

Acting in fanbois fashion is not the best way to rebut a point.

 

[newtekie1]

Acting in fanbois fashion is not the best way to rebut a point.

It seem to be working pretty well for you so far. And you don't have to be a fanboy to say ATi's hardware is overpriced, you just have to be able to see the obvious.

 

[DarkMatter]

Really, if they are really that different, how come 5 people picked nVidia as having better IQ? Yes, 7 picked ATI, but if the different is so obvious, not a single person should have picked nVidia. The IQ difference is going, admit it and move on.

It all comes down to this:

You have two cards A and B, same price of $300, A is 10% faster than B. B is as better on movies IQ to A as, HD is to Nvidia's.

Are you telling me that you would choose B, the slower one, just because it plays movies a little bit better?? Don't want to insult anybody, but that's stupid.

Acting in fanbois fashion is not the best way to rebut a point.

God!! What we have to hear... Who is acting like a fanboi? No one but you my friend. You say that for you Ati's IQ is better, we say for us is the same, actually newtekie says for him Nvidia is better. I provide a link that express this same variance in opinions, that demostrate that thre isn't any noticeable difference. Yet we are the fanbois? Come on... Grow up.

The differences in IQ between the 2 are obvious, unlike the differences in AF.

Also who are you to decide if that difference is bigger or not? And more specifically, to decide if it's more important on a purchase decision of an enthusiast graphics card? (AKA gaming hardware)

 

[newtekie1]

I'm with you, even if ATi was better at HD movies, it isn't worth the price premium and performance hit.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

It all comes down to this:

You have two cards A and B, same price of $300, A is 10% faster than B. B is as better on movies IQ to A as, HD is to Nvidia's.

Are you telling me that you would choose B, the slower one, just because it plays movies a little bit better?? Don't want to insult anybody, but that's stupid.



God!! What we have to hear... Who is acting like a fanboi? No one but you my friend. You say that for you Ati's IQ is better, we say for us is the same, actually newtekie says for him Nvidia is better. I provide a link that express this same variance in opinions, that demostrate that thre isn't any noticeable difference. Yet we are the fanbois? Come on... Grow up.

Also who are you to decide if that difference is bigger or not? And more specifically, to decide if it's more important on a purchase decision of an enthusiast graphics card? (AKA gaming hardware)

I think the growing up starts when your posts comes off a bit more mature then what I have read today. I posted based on my own experience something you have not demonstrated. Therefore, before you continue with your rabid responses I suggest a bit of discretion that at least shows you comprehend the context of my post. Other then fueling your own with "my card is better" responses.

 

[newtekie1]

You own experiences don't mean anything. An bunch of independant specialists have looked at both camps and the conclusion was that the IQ difference doesn't exists.

Oh, and you are not the only person with personal experience, don't ever assume that. A good argument doesn't involve personal experience, which is why we have left that part out of the IQ argument. You should be able to prove your point without saying "well my personal experience is...so that is how it is". You can't do that, so the only logical conclusion is that your argument is false. Helping that conclusion along is the fact that it has been proven false by independant studies.

 

[gOJDO]

That's were you are wrong. The HD does offer better IQ when it comes to moves over the Geforce. Anyone who (like myself) had the opportunity to view both cards should tell you that. No reason to lie about this.

Maybe I expressed my self not enough clearly so you missed my point. Let alone the better IQ argument, do you really need a 3870X2 or a 9800GX2 to watch movies?

 

[DarkMatter]

I think the growing up starts when your posts comes off a bit more mature then what I have read today. I posted based on my own experience something you have not demonstrated. Therefore, before you continue with your rabid responses I suggest a bit of discretion that at least shows you comprehend the context of my post. Other then fueling your own with "my card is better" responses.

I won't continue with this. You acuse me of fanboi and infantile, when it is you acting like that, and forgeting about facts (links). I say what my opinion is, you say what yours is. You say there's a big difference, I say there isn't and I provide a link that backs me up. Your opinion is not better than mine. Hell it's not better than those specialists' opinion, that's for sure...
I have as much personal experience with both cards as you, post #36, and I have demostrated as much as you, because I don't see any demostration from your part...
And lastly, since my whole point is that both cards have same IQ in oposition to this is better, it is you who is insisting in "my card is better" argument.

As I said qrow up.