Overclocking.. the Practical and the Inpractical...??

[trog100]

should a line be drawn between the two.. ??

some inpractical examples.. spending a fortune on fancy cooling to gain an extra 100mhz..

removing heatsinks and heatsink lapping..

volt modding hardware..

trying very hard to get temps lower than they need to be..

some practical something for nothing examples..

useing simple software to overclock your grafix card.. no extra money needed..

simple cpu speed increases with perhaps a cheapo aftermarket air cooler or just the stock cooler..

i kinda fit in the something for nothing practical camp.. my cpu runs a nice 24/7 4 gig with just a cheap artic pro cooler sat on top.. i see no real point in heatsink lapping.. water cooling and all the exotic stuff for an extra unnoticeable 200mhz or so or to get my temps lower than they need to be..

tweaking for the sake of tweaking or simple practical tweaking for a cheap performance increase.. does a line need to be drawn between the two..???

where do the majority sit.. ??

trog

 

[MiST91]

yeah, like my C2D E6300 runs at 1.86GHz stock, a got it running at 3.0GHz, and my 800MHz Corsair XM2 DHX running at 1031MHz and it's SiSoftware Sandra stable.

And guess what aftrenarket cooler i got on my processor?
this: http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/A18FF.jpg

its just a stock Intel heatsink with a differant quiter fan it cost me £8 ($16ish) lol and my Processor runs at 40c idle and around 55c underload 24/7.

 

[sneekypeet]

I say it all depends on the level of overclocker.

I for one was in the "Winter Wars" this year, which is an OC competition for przes.

Water took my E6400(B2 stepping) from 3.4 stable to being able to run and test at 3950MHz.

Temps were a little high....started to load in games in the mid to high 60's C , so lapping the waterblock and the E6400 dropped temps almost a full 10*C.

I have also voltmodded my HD3870....its more of a fun hobby to me to push to extremes without killing my hardware.

 

[SirKeldon]

I'll speak for me now, i just joined the oc&cooling world just 2-3 months ago, without any experience at all. And well, maybe for me it has been more a knowledge pursuit than performance one.

I knew previously that every CPU, every mobo and every ram it's different, even if they're the same model, one could OC as hell and another simply don't ... but well, that's not the point ... i didn't improved my cooling just to get 100Mhz more, even if these are one of my rewards, i just did it for learning, for testing ... to play and get knowledge, always being safe and treating my machine with respect.

And specially talking of cooling, you know as you said thousands of times ... than the most important thing is the ambient temp ... and depending on the place of the earth the machine is gonna stay, even with the best-air flow system, your CPU could be a lil bit warm, and sometimes ... maybe you don't want to give up your clocking and you prefer to improve the cooling, even if that's expensive than a new CPU, i admit it ... but you can think that it's an inversion for the future too.

I'll admit also that maybe i'm kinda obsessed with the temps, anything higher than 55ºC on full load starts worrying myself (since it's on the max-temp range that my manufacturer recommends), that made me to lap my HSF and also go water, since i never did that things, it was a knowledge pursuit more than a clocking one, i just wanted to learn how to do it. Anyway, this thing it's pretty addictive and sometimes you don't notice at all the sick your mind can be at pointed times.

I won't improve my cooling again, i don't need any extreme oc and i'm not worried to get the best 3DMarks or SuperPi times, cause sometimes it's just that with 100mhz more, a benchmark increase but the user really doesn't notice nothing at all, i just wanted a more real-user fast and cooler (and of course stable 24/7) system to learn and get into this interesting world, and i think i'm finally joining. Anyway, i'm really happy to be now with water and i'll just go air again if my W/C gets fucked up, specially cause my room uses to be a lil bit warm all the year, now it is and we're not still on summer ... sometimes the sun on spain it's not that good

So after all this explanation, i'll say i sit on the experimental-oc'er that it's not affraid to test some "simple" and not too risky things (and also not much expensive) .. such lapping a HSF, installing a simple water cooling or even the thing you done, changing the stock HSF, "safe" things that shouldn't break your hardware if you're careful. And if you go ahead for example with a Phase, i think it's just in where direction you point the things, to break benchmarks ... or to improve the real-user performance, i won't do it since i don't need it, but i respect the people that has hobbies (even if they're really expensive )

 

[sneekypeet]

Hey Trog....make a poll and see where the majority of Oc'ers sit from TPU.

* OC's on stock parts

* OC's on basic aftermarket

* OC's on whatever gets the best temps(money is no object)

* Feel the need to move to the south pole to keep ambients at a minimum for maximum performance!

You get the idea...I say get one up and see....very interesting me thinks!!!!!

 

[MiST91]

I think overclocking is Just like tuning a car.

If i buy a Nissan Skyline R34 it will be very fast, but then if i decide to upgrade the turbo and fit a new intercooler it will go even faster, but i can still only go 70mph (55mph in the US ) on the roads.

Its the same with overclocking and cooling, i dont need to have my E6600 at 3.0GHz most of the time, but i still do.

 

[DrPepper]

I think nost people who began OC'ing did it to prolong the life of their hardware (I mean in games not literally) and lengthan the time until they purchase a new piece of equiptment. In the end I like normal air cooling the most, extreme solutions such as liquid nitrogen are a bit over the top since the hardware breaks when it is heated back to room temperature. Oh and SirKeldon are still on that Beta bios and is it stable now.

 

[Kursah]

Well trog, that's an interesting question, or series of them in reality, but look at it like cars. There are guys that just buy sports cars, there are guys that buy cars, cut them apart, replace all sorts of components, some re-build/re-finish parts,improve cooling, exhaust, and shoot for every millisecond they can get in a drag race, or that extra tenth of a G at the slalom.

I don't really think there's a too far, it just depends on how far YOU want to go, and by that I mean everyone that reads this. PC's are a great hobby, and it can be quite fun to modify and tune and actually see results from it, hear results from it, and show it off. Just too bad PC's can't drag race hehe!

It may not be practical for yours or my realistic uses, or it may the perfect rig...but practiciality can only be viewed as a "to-each-their-own" sort of view, because everyone's view on practicality and performance is going to be different.

 

[AsRock]

GPU overclock has proved to me in the past as the best performance gain over any other. Other wise overclocking any thing else has been pointless for me.


Mainly impractical for my needs as benchmarks mean absolutely nothing to me. All though i do like my comp look good.

 

[imperialreign]

I OC cause I can - <shrugs> hell, I've been doing it for years, and with modern setups it's a TON easier than the golden days of motherboard jumpers and switches . . .

but, I tend to shoot for some level of practicality; and that tends to revolve around two things for me: 1. the average running temps of the component, 2. the noticeable performance of the component.

If I start hitting a point where I don't really see any actual, justifiable performance increase, or if performance starts decreasing, that's too far for my tastes.

I also like my components to run as cool as I can possibly have them per my cooling solutions - our summer here is extremelly humid and hot. Doesn't say much when you have a HVAC system, but it doesn't take much for things to start over heating during the summer, though.


I also like to find the max I can take a component, just for shits and giggles. Once I know the farthest I can clock something based on my setup, I usually bring everything back down to something I'm happy with for a 24/7 clock - a setting that runs decent for my tastes, and is within temps that I find acceptable.

 

[Kei]

Trog, excellent thread man and something that definately needed to be said.

As far as myself, I don't really consider myself an 'overclocker' if you will because I'm not really the type of person to buy something just to get it to the speed of something else. If I wanted something of X speed in the beginning then I'd just buy what I wanted because it's only money.

That statement is kinda 'ironic' (can't think of a better word for now) because I do enjoy tweaking a system but I consider that far different from overclocking. When I tune a machine I do them much like my cars and business. I'm not looking for some gross over power just because I can. I just like to make things more efficient and to a certain level that I desire. That level is usually far less than some of the people on this board and many others. Most people only do it because it seems like it's better to have the biggest number you can possibly get. I'd say that 80% of those people will NEVER use that speed in the first place and don't even recognize the speed anyway.

When I tune a system I do it much like a suspension on a car (my passion)...I don't want the single best car on the track nor the most comfortable car on the road. I want the funnest, most rewarding, and useful all around vehicle. Despite the fact that I've had to opportunity to drive many mega mega mega buck cars (in the 6-7 figures mega) I'm still not taken by them. I prefer a car with 180-280hp weighing in at around 2500-2800 lbs over them anyday regardless of speed.

I just want something that is a joy to use. I'm probably the only person around here that actually bought a Phenom just because I wanted a bit better multitasking and only ever wanted an extra 3-400Mhz out of it on as close to stock voltage as possible. I only ever wanted it to be at around the same extra clock/speed as the 4800+ it replaced (2.5 up to 2.975 stable on low volts).

When I get the B3 Phenom I'll do the samething, just a moderate clock on as close to stock voltage as possible (my Phenom now is at 1.25v which is so close to stock is crazy). That's all I need, I don't really need max speed and I'm not doing crazy or pointless things to get it.

Again, excellent topic and I hope it gets some people truly thinking about why they do what they do so they're not lying to themselves any longer about what they need/do.

K

Btw, I got the clock I wanted at 2.55Ghz 2.04Ghz Northbridge 2.04Ghz (2x2Ghz) though it's been up much higher stable this is all I need out of it.

 

[Mussels]

should a line be drawn between the two.. ??

some inpractical examples.. spending a fortune on fancy cooling to gain an extra 100mhz..

removing heatsinks and heatsink lapping..

volt modding hardware..

trying very hard to get temps lower than they need to be..

some practical something for nothing examples..

useing simple software to overclock your grafix card.. no extra money needed..

simple cpu speed increases with perhaps a cheapo aftermarket air cooler or just the stock cooler..

i kinda fit in the something for nothing practical camp.. my cpu runs a nice 24/7 4 gig with just a cheap artic pro cooler sat on top.. i see no real point in heatsink lapping.. water cooling and all the exotic stuff for an extra unnoticeable 200mhz or so or to get my temps lower than they need to be..

tweaking for the sake of tweaking or simple practical tweaking for a cheap performance increase.. does a line need to be drawn between the two..???

where do the majority sit.. ??

trog

well it all depends, there are two ways of looking at it.

Yeah, i have a Q6600 and a huge ass heatsink worth a lot of money - why lap it? Well, how about i paid a lot of money for it, and the damn things were both convex so they worked like crap. Wasnt going to let that money go to waste, so i risked it on lapping - if i succeded, i SAVED money on buying new cooling.

It all depends on your goal. Set a goal before you go and do anything.

Got an E2160 and want to thrash the crap out of it to learn to OC? why not lap it, its cheap. you can afford to fail.

software OC video cards? yeah, simple. Until you have to wait 2 months for rivatuner to catch up to the drivers, in which case a bios mod is actually simpler and easier.

you talk about a bigger cooler for 'just' 200Mhz more. what about the people who want it quieter, or have a goal in benchmarking?

It comes down to what you want to get done: set a goal, and put everything towards that.

 

[imperialreign]

I have to say, though - even with the number of users here who OC - we don't have any of the "extreme 1337" OCers that I know of - y'know, the ones aiming for breaking records. Kinda strange . . .

I do understand the point of purchasing a lower component and OCing to a more powerful components level - especially considering the price differences between Intel CPUs, for example. $250 for a Q6600, $540 for a Q6700 - and the only real difference between the two is the CPU multiplier. x9 for the 6600, x10 for the 6700.

but, we all have our own tastes - some do it cause they can and it's a hobby, some to rival more powerful hardware, some for the benchmarks and the e-peen scale - to each his own, eh?

 

[Mussels]

yeah my goal was to OC enough to get 60+ FPS in every game i play. If i cannot OC high enough to maintain that, i will look at new hardware in order to do so.

$400 (when i bought it) + $150 in cooling + $10 of sandpaper + 30 minutes lapping gets me a 3.6Ghz quad core from intel with my overclock.
A Q6700 is still $670 TODAY in australia, at 2.66Ghz.

This may seem 'impractical' to some, but to me it saved me a lot of money and is faster than anything i can buy retail.

 

[farlex85]

I'm still pretty new at this whole thing, but really, performance wise, I don't notice much difference from my core 2 clocked at 3.6 than its stock 2.6. But I won't run it stock. Its fun oc, but I don't have the money to do any serious ocing, and i probably wouldn't do watercooling and the like unless I deemed it necessary, or I had a lot of time on my hands. At times oc can save you a lot of money, but usually its just to get the most out of your parts, and then to enjoy your hobby.

It eventually comes down to the toys justify the means. Its usually overkill, but if you can, then why not.....

 

[boshuter]

I think nost people who began OC'ing did it to prolong the life of their hardware (I mean in games not literally) and lengthan the time until they purchase a new piece of equiptment. In the end I like normal air cooling the most, extreme solutions such as liquid nitrogen are a bit over the top since the hardware breaks when it is heated back to room temperature. Oh and SirKeldon are still on that Beta bios and is it stable now.

Hardware oc'd with ln2 doesn't "break" when it's heated back to room temp

First you need to figure out what an "ocer's is? Everyone who bumps their fsb nowdays thinks they are oc'ing.

 

[Tatty_Two]

should a line be drawn between the two.. ??

some inpractical examples.. spending a fortune on fancy cooling to gain an extra 100mhz..

removing heatsinks and heatsink lapping..

volt modding hardware..

trying very hard to get temps lower than they need to be..

some practical something for nothing examples..

useing simple software to overclock your grafix card.. no extra money needed..

simple cpu speed increases with perhaps a cheapo aftermarket air cooler or just the stock cooler..

i kinda fit in the something for nothing practical camp.. my cpu runs a nice 24/7 4 gig with just a cheap artic pro cooler sat on top.. i see no real point in heatsink lapping.. water cooling and all the exotic stuff for an extra unnoticeable 200mhz or so or to get my temps lower than they need to be..

tweaking for the sake of tweaking or simple practical tweaking for a cheap performance increase.. does a line need to be drawn between the two..???

where do the majority sit.. ??

trog

Ahhhh but when it's someones hobby then logic often kinda disappears out the window. For example, I occasionally fish, it's a hobby, before I go fishing I may strip a reel down and oil it again, it does not need it, it may well not work any better for it......but I still do it........why? Cause I enjoy it!

 

[InnocentCriminal]

Why?

Explains why I'm going to be lapping my waterblock. It's going to be fun!

 

[theonetruewill]

Personally I used to overclock because I could not afford very expensive chips and wanted as fast a computer as I could get for my money. However, times have changed and now I look on it as a hobby. I genuinely enjoy tinkering around with my PC now. For example: I used to push my old 4600 X2 to the highest I could possibly get it, but then I started to back down a wee bit to lower temps significantly with severe voltage drops, ie. 2.79 @ 1.424v is better than 2.82 @ 1.5v. I have done the same with my recent E2140- taking it to 3.4 and beaing able to boot (albeit extremely unstably) at 3.6, but for everyday use keeping it at 3.3 because the voltage requirement drop is huge. I like tweaking for benchmarks but I no longer like to push my hardware to the absolute limits during regular use- I just will not notice the difference of 100MHz except in benches. However, I do and will notice the difference between 1.6GHz and 3.3GHz. I have become more practical as I have got on with my hardware- but every so often I like to push it for a hell of a lot of fun. I think that is the case with most of us here: we are enthusiasts- I doubt even 25% of us keep our equipment at the absolute maximum speed required possible- and we are a hardcore niche. That is instead left to the extremists who spend huge amounts on their hardware because they appreciate every little bit. People like DaMulta and Mandelore I suspect. I can't and won't warrant spending that amount but I have an enormous amoun of respect for those people. In the end I just overclock to get my noticeable speed boost and best for my money. Hence why I have an E2140 and an AC Freezer 7 pro. I like good value kit that I can play with.

 

[Nitro-Max]

Ive found running at 3.2ghz rather than 3.6ghz has little or no impact on the games i play and ive also been able to push memory preformance more because im not putting as much stress on the fsb also temps are awsome 29c idle 35c load.

getting stable at 3.6ghz is easy ive managed this no problems for a while and still with great temps 55c max but when applying some extra memory tweaking in the bios of my rampage it required more NB voltage which drove up cpu temps also still within safe limits {JUST} but fan noise bug'ed me.

and like trog said for the extra what ever mhz is it worth shelling out for water cooling?

 

[InnocentCriminal]

Personally I used to overclock because I could not afford very expensive chips and wanted as fast a computer as I could get for my money. However, times have changed and now I look on it as a hobby.

That's how it started for moi. I'm not an excessive when it comes to OC'ing, but I do like to tinker around finding the best compromise of performance and limits of my hardware. Being a SFF fanatic, OC'ing has never really been on the top of my priorities, but it is however, a decent way of getting something for free. Which can never be sniffed at.

 

[cdawall]

i honestly don't see reasons to spend a lot on an air cooler but water and such are an ok investment seeing how they can be used from rig to rig.

impractical is fun like pushing 2v thru a cpu just to see what you can do with it (i got stuck @ 2.59ghz on my 3000+ even @ 2.2v :shadedshu)

another impractical would be building a phase change but that doesn't mean i wouldn't in fact i think i found a free compressor so i might have a custom one soon

 

[GSG-9]

I have a simple copper heat pipe cooler. For airflow I have a 140mm fan, and 2 60s.

 

[DrPepper]

Hardware oc'd with ln2 doesn't "break" when it's heated back to room temp

First you need to figure out what an "ocer's is? Everyone who bumps their fsb nowdays thinks they are oc'ing.

I'm not going to bother quoting wikipedia about "ln2" but the rapid expansion from the cpu heating back to room temp might break the die or just from the stress of the high speeds. Either way prolonged liquid nitrogen is expensive £1 a litre and that litre might evaporate within 20 minute not to sure and technically if you raise the fsb that is overclocking because you are changing the speed for which the component was not designed for.

 

[GSG-9]

not to sure and technically if you raise the fsb that is overclocking because you are changing the speed for which the component was not designed for.

Agreed and understood but thats not overclocking with style.