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defrag on RAID-0?

steiner666

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I used diskeeper (latest version) to defrag my raid0 array. Whenever I do, the next time i reboot it just sits at the vista loading bar screen for an indefinite amount of time. I restart it in safe mode and it loads up the desktop, then i restart into normal mode just fine. I'm wondering what could be causing this and what I could do to prevent it. I'm constantly installing/uninstalling programs on this array and I'm very picky about keeping drive defragmented, so I'd like to know a better way to defrag my RAID0. Thanks
 

Lillebror

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You dont have to defrag much - once a month on a heavy used machine is more than enough
 
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steiner666

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Have you tried defraggler? Nice, simple utility: www.defraggler.com

No, but that does look like a pretty convenient programs, I'm a sucker for non-installing small exe utilities ;)

I know I defrag more often than i probably need to, but even so, I just really want to know what the best defragger is for RAID-0. Most ppl I've talked to say that it doesn't make a difference because everything but your RAID controller see it as a single drive. Obviously it does matter though since my next reboot always messes up when i do. And I would think that a defragger that works at the hardware level with the controller would be best since it would be able to not only put the files together properly, but know where the individual drives start and end to position them for faster access... I dunno. Guess I'll google some more for now...
 
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I just use windows defragger, lol.
 
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Well, try windows defrag and see what happens.
 
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I just use windows defragger, lol.

Eessh... there are free ones that do a better job...

Personally I dislike diskeeper, I prefer O&O.
 
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I like how it does it automatically
 
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JKDefrag is my personal favorite

Wikipedia Page

Author's Page


It's a very lightweight app that runs quickly. It's designed to be a scheduled task. Here's a quote from the site that describes what I like about it:

"However, defragmenting and optimizing is work, so excessive defragmenting and optimizing can actually cause more wear and tear than it prevents. JkDefrag is therefore set for "fast" optimization by default, intended to be used on a daily basis. The other optimizations should only be used occasionally."

It's made to run everyday. It does a light defrag on a daily basis. I've got it set to run once a day, it takes about 2 min to cover 500GB.
 
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Maximum PC did an article about defraggers

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/the_disk_defrag_difference

Don’t Waste Your Money or Time!

You shouldn’t break the bank for negligible performance gains

With all of the benchmarking completed, we find it rather suspicious that disk defragmentation did nothing to improve the performance of our machine. However, we must note that our test drive was not terribly fragmented to begin with due to Vista’s auto-defragger running on our test bed. Even the paid-for programs were unable to yield any positive gains—quite the opposite, in some instances.

We had high hopes for Diskeeper at first. Given the relatively high level of fragmentation it quoted compared to Vista’s built-in app, we assumed the program’s analysis routines were seeing fragmentation that Vista couldn’t. In turn, we expected Diskeeper to do a better job of moving files around and ultimately give us better benchmark numbers than the Vista client.

That was wishful thinking on our part, as Diskeeper didn’t trump the Vista defragmentation routine at all. While it did beat PerfectDisk by 150 points in our PCMark Vantage test, we hardly consider this a trouncing. We even fired up both programs’ boot-time defragmentation options to see if these additional features would make any difference on our benchmarks. Zilch.
We like the Vista defragmentation program for the simple fact that it’s, well, there. It comes with Vista and is enabled by default and runs its defragmentation routines during the wee hours of the morning. And even if you alter this time or run your own manual defragmentation, the program runs at a low processor priority, so you can easily multitask without hampering your computing experience.

That said, we hate that Vista gives you no estimated time of completion. You also get no way to see what the application is doing, any graphical representation of how fragmented your drive is, or any of the other features we’ve come to expect in even the most entry-level of defragmentation applications. Even if the pretty moving colored blocks don’t correspond to the actual data on our drives, at least they give us something to look at during the interminable two-hour-plus defrag process. You even have to run a command-line version of the application just to see an analysis of your drive’s fragmentation level.

If you don’t mind manually running your defragger and you can’t live without a visual representation of the fragmentation level of your drive, try Auslogics’s Disk Defrag. It doesn’t outperform Vista in our tests, but it runs faster than the operating system’s built-in defragger, and it displays a pretty picture to let you know that it’s working. Even if disk defragmentation ultimately does nothing for your computer—as our benchmark numbers would have us believe—you don’t need to spend money on a third-party program when Auslogics’s Disk Defrag is a serviceable free solution.
 

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I dont even both degragging now i have vista, it does it for you, when your PC is idle. Thats another reason why the HDD light never seems to go out. ;)
 

DiskeeperRep

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I used diskeeper (latest version) to defrag my raid0 array.

Hi,
Just a couple of questions:
Has SP1 been installed on your Vista installation?

Are you using the latest build (781) of Diskeeper 2008? If not, can you update to build 781 and check if the problem persists?

And I would think that a defragger that works at the hardware level with the controller would be best since it would be able to not only put the files together properly, but know where the individual drives start and end to position them for faster access... I dunno

A defragmenter functions at the file system level; it cannot not directly communicate with the drive controller and ask it to place files at specific blocks on the platter. If you are interested, these white papers describes disk I/O and fragmentation in a RAID environment.
http://downloads.diskeeper.com/pdf/new-storage-technologies.pdf
http://files.diskeeper.com/pdf/FileFragmentation_SANsNASandRAID.pdf

Hope this helps.
 

steiner666

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Hi,
Just a couple of questions:
Has SP1 been installed on your Vista installation?

Are you using the latest build (781) of Diskeeper 2008? If not, can you update to build 781 and check if the problem persists?



A defragmenter functions at the file system level; it cannot not directly communicate with the drive controller and ask it to place files at specific blocks on the platter. If you are interested, these white papers describes disk I/O and fragmentation in a RAID environment.
http://downloads.diskeeper.com/pdf/new-storage-technologies.pdf
http://files.diskeeper.com/pdf/FileFragmentation_SANsNASandRAID.pdf

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the information. I ran diskeeper last night (it is the most up-to-date build) and rebooted immediately after it completed and encountered no problems getting back into the OS this time. Pretty weird how it started working w/o me really doing anything to fix the issue, but I'm not going to complain.

One thing I did do was disable the system restore. I like having it to fall back on, but I felt that my disk usage was a bit high, even considering all the programs i have installed. Sure enough, I disabled system restore and I went from having ~260GB free to ~325GB... quite the difference. I'm wondering why it's using so much space when I haven't even had this Vista installation up and running for a week yet. Maybe something to do with the shadowing feature? I also remember there being a notificaiton is diskeeper there can be issues with drives with shadowing enabled, something about size increasing with defrags.

Anyways, for now it all defragmented and running good. I will probably just buy another drive in the near future to preform incremental backups on rather than messing around with this system restore stuff, but I'd like some way of having restore enabled but not so storage-hogging until then.
 

DiskeeperRep

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Thanks for the information. I ran diskeeper last night (it is the most up-to-date build) and rebooted immediately after it completed and encountered no problems getting back into the OS this time. Pretty weird how it started working w/o me really doing anything to fix the issue, but I'm not going to complain.

One thing I did do was disable the system restore. I like having it to fall back on, but I felt that my disk usage was a bit high, even considering all the programs i have installed. Sure enough, I disabled system restore and I went from having ~260GB free to ~325GB... quite the difference. I'm wondering why it's using so much space when I haven't even had this Vista installation up and running for a week yet. Maybe something to do with the shadowing feature? I also remember there being a notificaiton is diskeeper there can be issues with drives with shadowing enabled, something about size increasing with defrags.

Anyways, for now it all defragmented and running good. I will probably just buy another drive in the near future to preform incremental backups on rather than messing around with this system restore stuff, but I'd like some way of having restore enabled but not so storage-hogging until then.

No problem. Glad to be of help.:)
Yes, you are right about shadow copy and defrag. Unfortunately, there is an 'issue' with Vista shadow copy and defragmentation (not specific to DK) on Vista volumes that are formatted with a cluster size of less than 16kB. It's a carry over from Windows Server 2003, and also affects Windows Home Server. Briefly, the defrag file movement process triggers creation of shadow copies, which may grow quickly and purge older ones. This is explained better at the links below. Diskeeper's special VSS compatible defrag mode minimizes defrag file movement to an extent and tries to preserve shadow copies, at the cost of some 'thoroughness' of the defrag.

http://www.diskeeperblog.com/archives/2007/12/dk08_feature_sp.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/312067
 
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