Who'll be the better president?

[DonInKansas]

I'm not advocating communism. My point was that higher taxes for the wealthy would not cause them to punish those making less. Besides, I didn't say anything about oil profits.

Communism in it's purest form (in my weirdo brain everybody making the same no matter what job they do) is a very noble concept. It's just impossible when dealing with the human element.

 

[nflesher87]

Communism in it's purest form (in my weirdo brain everybody making the same no matter what job they do) is a very noble concept. It's just impossible when dealing with the human element.

Yet there's many that still haven't come to understand that
Usually those who accept communism are in such a desperate position (Cuba) that they're willing to accept anything, then once they allow it, there's no turning back...

 

[Kreij]

Without the possibly of losing money, there would be an end to investing. Leave your 401k alone, you get rewarded down the road. Withdraw early, you get punished

Low risk = low guaranteed return : high risk = might lose all, might gain big

It's such a great system I don't want to see go down the toilet.

Thanks for taking a few moments to debate this with me CS, I appreciate it as I cannot stomach the thought of debating the current candidates.

I agree with your statements in general, but in an unstable market (like at the moment) there is no such thing as low-risk. Each 401K is based on the investment portfolio that you choose for the investment. It is no different than buying into a mutual fund. The only difference is that the tax on the income is deferred until you actually start withdrawing the money (at retirement).

Do you have a 401K? How is it doing today? Not too well I would imagine. Remember, there is no guarantee on 401K investments. You can lose money (albiet it is unlikely as you will most likely have employer matching of some kind).

The issues is, as I see it, is that it is my money. When I invest in a 401K I will make profits on dividends (I hope) and so will the investment company (they take a cut). When I want my money, regardless of when, do the investment company get taxed more on their cut for my early withdrawl? Doubtful.

Okay so I took out the money for some really needed car repairs. Now I get a 40% tax on the money I took out and then I have to pay (5.5% here) sales tax on the parts and labor to fix my car. So I am up to 45.5% taxation on my withdrawl. Wow, they are taking almost half of my money! If you are okay with that you are making a whole lot more money than I am.

I too like the investment system, it's the tax system that irritates me.

 

[nflesher87]

I too like the investment system, it's the tax system that irritates me.

An yet you're in favor of the Socialist?

 

[Kreij]

An yet you're in favor of the Socialist?

Where did you ever get that idea?

 

[Evo85]

To be very frank, I hate when people bring political issues to non political focused forums. It always turns into flame wars.

 

[nflesher87]

Where did you ever get that idea?

Sorry I thought you were supporting Obama on the previous page? If not then I apologize! I jumped in this halfway

 

[Castiel]

DaedalusHelios I have grown up in East Texas and man, KKK is written all over it. My dad still lives on our family plantation. And there is still remains of Buildings and stuff that was used. I'm not saying that I am racist or anything. But I do not want Obama to be president. I am kinda afraid of him to. See that Muslim whore shouldn't be our president. I dont take sides at all, by Republican or Demo's I just see how each person see our country as, and there background. And I am a big family person, and Obama treats his family like shit. Have you seem him on camera with them???

OMG, Techys and our Politics.

 

[CStylen]

There are also tax advantages. Heard of a ROTH IRA? It's tax free when you take money out of it after a certain age. Theres also a 1031 Exchange, where you defer taxes and capital gains on a home you sell when you get a different home. When done correctly you pay $0 taxes.

Let's say you waited to take out your 401K, there would not have been an extra tax to do so. Would you want to punish yourself for waiting to take out your 401K? It has to be even on both ends or it won't work.

 

[Kreij]

To be very frank, I hate when people bring political issues to non political focused forums. It always turns into flame wars.

Yeah, that's why I suggested to W1zz to keep the front page polls tech related and not about political/current event issues.

@nFlesh : No problem I am not really happy with any of the candidates, but I am definitely not a Obama supporter. Anyone who thinks killing babies is okay loses my vote instantly.

 

[Castiel]

There are also tax advantages. Heard of a ROTH IRA? It's tax free when you take money out of it after a certain age. Theres also a 1031 Exchange, where you defer taxes and capital gains on a home you sell when you get a different home. When done correctly you pay $0 taxes.

Let's say you waited to take out your 401K, there would not have been an extra tax to do so. Would you want to punish yourself for waiting to take out your 401K? It has to be even on both ends or it won't work.

Can you do my taxes next year?

 

[fritoking]

I was referring to income taxes, didn't realize you meant ALL taxes.

It's not trickle down economics which got us in this economic mess. It's the result of greedy lenders, various clowns in Washington, and people who purchased too much house. This stemmed from alleged racial profiling in the 90's, citing that lenders were not lending to minorites based on race, when it was really a matter of the person not having enough cash. Washington then gave lenders money which was borrowed to people that could not afford the payments. By the way, Obama was part of that plan.

For clarification, businesses are owned by individuals, groups of individuals or even LLC's and the sort which are ultimately owned by an individual. With higher taxes the individual will invest less in his business.

100 % money!! ding ding ding ..we have a winner! heres an article from 1999

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

NoBama for me

 

[Castiel]

We should have a "Hate" Thread for Obama.

I want to meet one black person that is against Obama

 

[magibeg]

Not sure where you guys get the idea that obama is a socialist from, in the more extreme sense anyway. Having a tiered system that reflects your income is borderline essential for most developed nations. For example one must consider the cost of living vs expendable income. Its also interesting to note the wild and effective ways rich people avoid paying taxes in the first place. Many of the richest men in America pay less taxes % wise than their secretaries. Giving a tax break to the middle class is a much more effective strategy for stimulating the economy than giving the rich tax cuts.

Also to those of you speaking about military spending cuts... have you seen what your spending is in comparison to the rest of the world?

From a broad standpoint Obama is fairly far to the right compared to the 'left' wing parties of other developed nations so likening him to say Russia is almost comical from an outsiders point of view.

 

[dalekdukesboy]

Spoken like a true Marxist. Just like the "big oil" companies should have a profit cap which the "excessive profits" get spead equally around...Makes me sad for the future of capitalism.

Unfortunately most of our "comrades" in the pc enthusiast land are about as liberal as liberal gets, Marxist? Your words...my sentiment...NOBAMA

 

[tkpenalty]

Its quite clear that the rest of the world would prefer if the US; one of the Major powers to have Obama as the president instead of McCain. Most of the world are rather repulsed by the fact that a nation would have religion forced down student's throats at school, I mean this is seriously dumbing down one of the most influential nations in the world. I don't want to be a tourist who goes to the US and sees people who have just no sense of reality! Haven't you guys even considered that there are people who are non-christian living within your society?

I find it humorous that people in the US actually care about corporate welfare when a majority of them are nowhere near that description in terms of income, and yet root for Obama. The same situation occured in the previous election. I'm not going into details cause it offend a lot of people here so I'm out. But from a foreign perspective we'd seriously prefer a nation who doesn't hold other nations at gunpoint.

Whats this rubbish about socialism and marxism? I find it a rather outdated and immature excuse not to vote for Obama. The way that most developed nations structure things make the poor (the majority), poorer, and the richer richer. Its very uneducated and ignorant to suddenly scream communist against the increases in tax to the richer class.


One question: do you guys like war? I don't.

 

[erocker]

Religion isn't forced down any throats in public schools in the US. As a matter of fact it isn't allowed whatsoever. Get your facts straight.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

DaedalusHelios I have grown up in East Texas and man, KKK is written all over it. My dad still lives on our family plantation. And there is still remains of Buildings and stuff that was used. I'm not saying that I am racist or anything. But I do not want Obama to be president. I am kinda afraid of him to. See that Muslim whore shouldn't be our president. I dont take sides at all, by Republican or Demo's I just see how each person see our country as, and there background. And I am a big family person, and Obama treats his family like shit. Have you seem him on camera with them???

OMG, Techys and our Politics.

If you are worried about how Obama treats his family maybe you should read more about McCain. McCain cheated on his first wife while she was in the hospital and divorced her before she fully recovered from her debilitating car accident. Not exactly a winner in social affairs eh?

Obama has been Christian for just over 20 years. Is that Muslim? Nope.

He has an understanding of how the Muslim world works and that will serve him well as a commander and chief if we need diplomacy. He doesn't like military solutions unless its absolutely needed.

Even more than that is that McCain chose Palin. Sarah Palin is a new earth creationist. She believes that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Its insane. She also has stated that she was against the "road to nowhere" yet she ran official fund raisers for it and the lobbyists for just over a year.

PS My Ancestry is primarily comprised of Scotch-Irish immigrants and none were ever involved in slavery. It was all traced back by my grandparents and the "Daughters of the Confederacy" organization. I am a direct descendant of Alexander Hamilton too.

McCain lacks fiscal responsibility and believes in a military response over diplomacy. There is a reason why more troops donate to Obama's campaign than McCain's. Its about responsibility and accountability. Obama wants the troops home to see there families and defend the country from outside influences and not tied up elsewhere.

Out of control deficit spending has destroyed the economy by reducing foreign investments and dumping funds into Iraq which never deserved this kind of effort in the first place.

Ever wonder why oil costs so much?
~Whenever we are at war with a major oil producing country market speculation inflates the cost/value of oil commodities. Dick Cheney(current US VP) was on the board at Halliburton until he entered office (because it isn't allowed while in office).

~Temporarily the hurricane makes it even worse.

Scared of Socialized Healthcare? The rest of the First World has it. Don't be afraid of it out of ignorance or propaganda. Do your research in sources that are academic and not TV like FOX News.

We would still have private healthcare for the better off financially like myself.

 

[intel igent]

i really don't care who they elect because either way we're all screwed.

 

[MadClown]

where's nader on the poll

but seriously, Obama will win, but McCain is a much better choice

 

[erocker]

i really don't care who they elect because either way we're all screwed.

QFT.

 

[Wile E]

Thats trickle down economics, which has gotten us in the current economic debacle in the first place. I don't vote for failed policies.

The rich will get richer no matter what. Our current economic situation shows us that. Outsourcing is driven by greed and not necessity.

No. it's not what has us in our current economic situation. It was Clinton's administration that brought this upon us. We flourished when Reagan's policies(trickle down) were still in effect. Do a little more research on this. Clinton screwed this country over. Bush just gets left with the blame.

I'm not saying Bush did a good job. He didn't. He certainly didn't help the situation with the level of military spending he did, but the current economic situation does not rest on his shoulders.


Back on topic: I'm not voting. They're both worthless.

 

[Kreij]

Even though this thread has remained relatively civil, I hope that it convinces W1zz that the front page polls on TPU should not deal with non-tech issues.
This is fine for GN, but completely unrelated to what TPU is all about.

 

[PVTCaboose1337]

I personally am a fan of McCain. Bad choice W1z! Politics on a forum = instant flame war.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

I am sick of outsourcing, a bad economy, and irresponsible government spending.

I couldn't care less about Iraq.

To all the religious Christian republicans out there:
There is a saying from the bible that says "you cannot save those who do not want to be saved". The Iraqi population isn't and wasn't ready to be saved.

The only way to have a free country is a to have a revolution. The people didn't want to revolt or we wouldn't be there in the first place because we could have just provided arms and "intel" to the revolutionaries. Bad timing going in, leads to "mission accomplished" only after one hundred years of bloodshed.