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Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 discussion thread

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This is what I pulled while doing some meditative lurking on the net....


PC Modern Warfare 2: it's much worse than you thought

Modern Warfare 2 has long earned the ire of PC gamers for its lack of dedicated servers, but Infinity Ward has now announced that it's taking away much more than control over hosting with the game in one long face-palm of a question and answer session. No servers, no console, no mods, no problem!
By Ben Kuchera | Last updated November 5, 2009 9:48 AM CT
----------

Infinity Ward needs to realize that talking to people in the PC community does not end well for the buzz around its game. The lack of dedicated servers was "announced" during an interview with a gaming podcast, and the interviewers were stunned into silence when they were basically told their community, as they knew it, was dead. They would have to learn to adapt to Infinity Ward controlling all aspects of the servers, or move onto another game.

More recently, Best Buy hosted an online chat between gamers and Mackey McCandlish and Ryan Lastimosa from Infinity Ward. The floor was open for questions, and the pair systematically crushed any hope that the PC version of the game would even attempt to make gamers happy, or allow for what the community has been taking for granted for years. We're going to take a look at some of the more telling questions from this session, and give our thoughts on why this is bad, bad news.

Josh111: PC Question... What will the max amount of players per map be for PC multiplayer on IW.net

Vince-IW: 9v9


No matter how good a connection the host has, no matter how powerful your dedicated server was, the maximum number of players online is 18. If you have a larger clan, you're out of luck. If you're waiting for someone to create a custom map to allow larger groups, don't bother. There is no news on mod tools or the ability to add your own content into the locked-down server structure.

Infinity Ward says the maps are balanced for only nine players per side, but they also say there is no lean in the game because the game "isn't balanced for lean." Remember, you can easily answer any inconvenient questions by saying it would ruin the game's balance.

Somehow, I doubt between the past games and this one they've forgotten how to implement lean. Likewise, with the ability to run your own servers players can decide what size games they'd like to play on, or use new maps that are larger. As the system is set up now, however, that is simply not an option.

Q: Is there a console in the PC version of the game, so we can change our field of view from the xbox's default 65 FOV to 80 also can we tweaks the weapon damage for each gun, removes perks, graphical debris, breathing sway, also thru console like we where able to before or is this all gone?

Vince-IW: We would like you to play the game the way we designed and balanced it
.

The lack of console commands is going to be something that may not make the headlines, but may be one of the most annoying omissions to the game. The ability to tweak and adjust your play experience through the console is something PC gamers have enjoyed since... well, since there has been modern gaming.

There is a long list of adjustments and tweaks gamers can make to titles like Borderlands on the PC in order to adjust settings. Now you're locked into whatever options Infinity Ward sees fit to put into the menus.

This is, for all intents and purposes, a console game that plays on your PC. You won't be able to make any tweaks, you can't adjust anything, and even better? You won't be able to make recordings of your matches. The question in the chat showed just how far the gulf between what gamers want and what Infinity Ward is giving them has become. "Is there a /record feature? Answer yes... please. We're trying to give you a 'chance'," the gamer asked. The answer was a simple "No."

DudezTY: Since we cannot kick people in ranked matches, how will we stop hackers who get past VAC?

Mackey-IW: Our goal is to ban hackers from the game.


It's a shame that it's impossible to show a jaw dropping on an online chat. There will be no way to kick players, and Infinity Ward seems sure they'll simply be able to keep hackers and cheaters from playing.

That's a pipe dream, of course, but with no control in the hands of the players, no ability to control who is hosting, and no ability to kick or ban players from your game, you're just going to have to take their word for it.

kaRMa: Please give me a direct answer. On the PC version. Are all games hosted by players, and is there a five-second delay when host migration is in effect?

Vince-IW: yes.


Why is this a problem? Because Infinity Ward also revealed in the chat that the game will pick who hosts. You have no control over it. If the host leaves, there will be a five-second delay while the game picks the next best host. Players have no way of controlling who is hosting, and of course we know there will be no dedicated servers.

The host will of course have a ping advantage, which should be mitigated by the software "having a great tolerance for latency," and a five-second pause if the host rage-quits before the game restarts will ruin any flow the game enjoyed until that point.

What's more interesting is that they said ISPs will have to deal with you hosting games, even if there is language against running servers in their usage agreement. Infinity Ward's response is that since this isn't a "permanent" server, they have to deal with it. When someone else asked what would happen if their ISP throttled traffic that comes from running a server, they were told that "only players capable of hosting will host."

They better hope that no ISPs get upset, because there is no way for any player to control who hosts. You can't opt out of hosting. If the host quits, the game stops for five seconds while the next one is selected by the software. This is good for gamers... somehow.

Moriarte: Ignoring IW.net, is the PC version a direct port of the console version?

Mackey-IW: No, PC has custom stuff like mouse control, text chat in game, and graphics settings.


This is the amount of work that went into the PC version: you are given the ability to use a mouse, to use text chat, and to adjust graphical settings. Are your fears now put to rest?
To sum it up

We thought the lack of dedicated servers was bad, but now we can add the lack of console commands, the inability to have a say in who hosts the game, a lengthy pause while the game migrates to a new host if the currently selected host quits, no leaning, no option to record matches, and no way to kick or block trouble players, hackers, or cheaters.

You have to wonder if there are any actual PC gamers working at Infinity Ward, as it will be a challenge to find any member of the PC gaming community that will stand up for any of these omissions, not to mention all of them bundled together. At launch, this will be one of the most locked-down, inflexible, and gamer-unfriendly game ever created.

It won't stay that way, of course. The pirates will have the game up on the torrent sites soon, if they haven't already, and the code will be ripped apart and modded to allow everything gamers want. How quickly will dedicated servers pop up for these pirates? It's hard to say... but we have a feeling it won't be long. Those that buy the game legally will have no choice but to play exactly how the developer and publisher want them to. On the other hand, this has given us some incredibly amusing images from the peanut gallery. The images were found on Evil Avatar's discussion thread.
Welcome to the new face of PC gaming.

I understand that i might not be the first to bring such news to the table & where as I had heard about IW cutting dedicated server support - I had not heard of the rest of story.... So here it is in all its glory & I cant even for 1 second understand what must be going through IW's mind.

First of all we get that bull shit about how their gonna charge players MORE for the game then they remove dedicated servers, Mod support & a whole lotta other stuff....

are they fucking crazy? what the fuck do them asshats think their doing?? Their ruining one of the most highly awaited supposedly kickmotherfucking ass sequels to what is STILL a great game.

what the fuck is all this shit!

& it shows how much they care about the community buy the responces they gave in the interview.... Its bastards like THOSE who kill PC gaming. rather then make it special for something that once STARTED life on the pc - theyve decided to give a big fuck you to the platform, the people, & the entire comunity that bought their fucking games & pushed them to the top where they no long have to drink champaign out of a shoe.

this is a fucking outrage. I was so looking forward to the game but after this stunt not to mention the price increase stunt - I no longer class IW as one of the top studios.

THANKS FOR SCREWING YOUR FANS OVER


Moriarte: Ignoring IW.net, is the PC version a direct port of the console version?

Mackey-IW: No, PC has custom stuff like mouse control, text chat in game, and graphics settings

it seems that being a PC gamer no longer holds any value or meaning to the people who supposedly started life making games for PC's
 
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"...custom stuff like mouse control, text chat in game, and graphics settings"
OMFG teh customz! That has to be one of the most ridiculous statement in the history of gaming. The power of mouse control will crush you! :nutkick: IW has gotten so out of line, and they don't even have the slightest idea how much they are failing right now... They turned one of the biggest and most hyped PC launches of the motherfucking decade into an epic example of douchebaggery... That's what happens when money blinds people.
 

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tell me about it!! - most of the answers they gave dont even class as answers - at least not to me anyway.

DudezTY: Since we cannot kick people in ranked matches, how will we stop hackers who get past VAC?

Mackey-IW: Our goal is to ban hackers from the game.

^^^ what sort of an answer is this??? its not an answer at all!
 
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This sums up the way they answer the questions - they just don't do it.
 

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is it just me or does it seem that IW uses a bot for interviews lol his answers are comical almost on par with a scripted bot just answering based on key words mentioned lol
 
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Yeah, actually they do answer like bots, lol. You are right, I bet they are using scripts on every video interview...
 
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Diablo II, Starcraft was mentioned as an example of "perfect" P2P?

Well it WAS P2P because it's the only possible way then. Right now we usually play through local and regional dedicated servers anyway (so we can play against the other Asians, with the South Koreans the toughest bunch in SC).
 

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yea i swear there bots thats why they feel no fear of us PC gamers if they were human they would know a good angry mob with some pitchforks and bats can do some major damage...



just image 10 ppl crammed together in an elevator they get out brandishing makeshift weapons and torches at IWs headquarters it would be a nice win for pc gamers everywhere XD

heres what we would do :nutkick: :nutkick: :nutkick::slap: :slap: :nutkick: then when they realize there futile resistence to us the pc gamers they will :respect: and they will :toast: are superiority lol sorry had a bit of inspiration from a bottle of jack
 
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tired of all the complaining, especially when it is coming from other websites, etc.... IW is not your slave, nor do they owe you anything. Don't like the game? dont play it, move on in the pathetic instance that you call your life.

I do agree with all that if they do actually drop the ball on this one, I will be very, very fkin upset.
 

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So you really think that you have a better idea than the professionals that get paid to do this? Im losing IQ points listening to all the complaining from the kids. Back in the day, I used to play warcraft II and starcraft by actually dialing 28k to my friends home number a block away to make a direct connection between out modems. Anyone complaining about the loss of dedicated servers must be under 18 years of age, and dont know how good they have it these days. Hell, im not even that old.

i'm 25. we took big steps forwards with dedicated servers, that makes the game accesible to noobs without port forwards, low ping servers in their area that they can stick with, and so on.

IW is ditching that. since you cant even choose the host, its utterly random if you find one near you.

I hear that man, i remember the Diablo II lan parties and stuff.

The way i see it, is there are pros and cons to the dedicated server mess.

It is a good way to control piracy +
It is a good way to eliminate unwanted modification +
For IW it's a great way to control the game on a balanced level (according to them they want all ports to play exactly the same??)

for the negatives in my eyes
You can't add your own mods -
Doesn't allow you full control over players (i.e kicking/banhammer etc)
Host will have the lag advantage
Makes it harder for Clans to have serious clan matches.

LAN parties were awesome. i still run them. Try them again when every player needs a net connection to play a LAN game (it was in one of the commentaries), and see it fail...

your pros are logical.

your cons are good too, except you underestimated one.

it makes it IMPOSSIBLE for clan matches. I play tournaments with cod4 and TF2 and they REQUIRE changes.

TF2: random critical hits are disabled, teams are limited to 3 players per class to prevent spam (heavy + medic combos, for example)

Cod4: the killstreaks are disabled, to prevent one player with a bit of luck changing the odds, and ruining *fair* gameplay. With deathstreaks this gets even worse.
 
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Why would they ditch dedicated servers? by doing that, it creates much more work for themselves. Why would they do such a thing, if they knew it was making it worse? I have never been a fan of dedicated servers, they were all different in some way, rules, mods, and other changes that I dont like. If I want a modified COD4, ill play a different game (there is a mod in COD4 that gives you RPG Aspects!! its called FALLOUT 3!!):laugh: I also don't like games where there are any more than 40 players running around rampant.

These are my opinions, and im not sure why I dont like the dedicated server idea, it has just always caused me lots of pains in the ass.

But like I said, I just hope they do this game right.

@freaksavior: you might want to watch it, that is openly admitting piracy (if im correct in what you are saying)
 
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Why would they ditch dedicated servers? by doing that, it creates much more work for themselves. Why would they do such a thing, if they knew it was making it worse? I have never been a fan of dedicated servers, they were all different in some way, rules, mods, and other changes that I dont like. If I want a modified COD4, ill play a different game (there is a mod in COD4 that gives you RPG Aspects!! its called FALLOUT 3!!):laugh: I also don't like games where there are any more than 40 players running around rampant.

These are my opinions, and im not sure why I dont like the dedicated server idea, it has just always caused me lots of pains in the ass.

But like I said, I just hope they do this game right.

@freaksavior: you might want to watch it, that is openly admitting piracy (if im correct in what you are saying)

The dedicated servers caused you lots of pain in the ass? :confused:

Or maybe because you caused them yourself?
 
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Diablo II, Starcraft was mentioned as an example of "perfect" P2P?

Well it WAS P2P because it's the only possible way then. Right now we usually play through local and regional dedicated servers anyway (so we can play against the other Asians, with the South Koreans the toughest bunch in SC).

Maximum 8 players for SC, and it's RTS, you can play them with ~750ms ping (I did), but COD is not RTS, it's FPS, every bullet count, and every moving is count, and for that you need your ping under 100ms.
 
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with all this bs with the online multiplayer. would it be a smarter move to get it on ps3? or is it likely to be the exact same? except with no mouse, and lack of true 1080p
 

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Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
this is NOT peer to peer. its still client/server based, just with one of the clients hosting on the same machine/process as the client.

the PROBLEM is that it all comes down to the hosts bandwidth and FPS... how would you feel if the game chose a guy with an average FPS of 15 to host, and it lagged all the way through... choose another host? cant. Kick the guy? cant.
 

crazyeyesreaper

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does it really matter anymore if u buy it for pc or console it dosent matter they know there gonna make money and they know die hard consumers that are sheeple will lap it up >_> i just said forget it and got rid of all my call of duty games most gotten 2nd hand and reinstalled BattleField2 forget this at least bf2 u can get all the expansions for free with the 1.5patch.. all i can say to IW now is thanks for making sure BF badcompany 2 will kick ass on pc
 
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Benchmark Scores IS gatrillions a number?
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Benchmark Scores They can run Crysis.
I saw some streams of the multiplayer on 360, I wasn't that much impressed, automated turrents seem kind of noobish in a game like this which is mostly all offense and running around.
 

joinmeindeath417

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At this point its like beating a dead horse.
 

Mussels

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Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
At this point its like beating a dead horse.

with 5 second pauses every few minutes, and sometimes when you swing the stick it teleports back to where it was 3 seconds ago
 

joinmeindeath417

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Storage 500gb SATAII
Display(s) 23" 1080p Acer H233Hbmid
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Audio Device(s) Onboard
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haha, yeah wheres the chainsaw!
 
Joined
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System Name THE MAD BEAST!!!
Processor Tinfoil rapper with some coathangers
Motherboard Graham cracker with with frosting
Cooling A shovel full of snow
Memory Grey matter out of a corpse
Video Card(s) Cat eyes
Storage A whales brain
Display(s) Cyclops eyeball
Case Inside a yetis hollowed out corpse
Audio Device(s) howling banchee
Power Supply 32 hamster on a massive wheel
Software WHo needs software when you have a box of kittens
Benchmark Scores IS gatrillions a number?
I dont care keep beating the dead horse, KEEP BEATING IT! i want automated dead horse beating machine constructed!
 
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