Radeon HD 6800 coming sooner than you think?

[Nick89]

6800 series only at years end if even.

Yea ati will release 6 series soon due to heavy gsod and bsod of their 5 series...
In software section they will release gimmicks ---> hotfix

Reported for trolling.

 

[Kovoet]

Tell me for what are we going to use these new cards for. I think the only happy people are going to be the folding team.

Games wise there is nothing for these new cards and lets be honest the new Bad Company game works better with Direct 9 than DX10 or DX11 for that matter.

These guys need to let things catch up first and can you imagine these prices are just going to go and up.

Is AMD also going to have the same driver problem as we have all experienced over the last few months or has AMD realised they may have made a boo boo with the 5xxx series cards, with a result they are going to rectify it with the 6xxx series.

I know this sounds real negative but they are shooting to far ahead for anything else to keep up with them.

 

[wolf]

Yeah, I needed to buy three monitors to justify 5870's...even my 30-inch Dell was happy with Dual 4890's. DX11 currently offers nothing to me, as a consumer...

I replaced the 30-inch Dell with 3x P2310H, whose full-white power draw, together for all three, is less than the standby power that the 30-inch draws.

I replaced the 4890's with cards that suck less power, but do twice the work(but not really, not noticing more than 150% of one card using two, except for a few select apps).

I can now once again span my desktop across a couple of monitors.

So I bought new cards for less power consumption, and more display options, but definately not for more performance. I new card, that is faster...for what? Better programming could overcome any performance deficits in today's market. More power jsut gives more developer's reasons to be lazy....with consoles controlling the software gaming market, it makes little sense than to have much more power, or to play in a differnt resolution, than what they do.

I mean really..I'm playing BFBC2 @ 5870x1080, 4xAA. I'm not interested in more power...BC2 proves it's not needed.


Now if only that powerplay worked right, so I actually got those power savings...without 2D rendering errors! They need to replace 5xxx series to fix the hardware issues present in multi-monitor configs!

with this setup do you still need to use a display port at all? or can you use say 2xDVI/HDMI from the first card and the 3rd DVI/HDMI from the second card?

 

[cadaveca]

Personally, I use monitors that have displayport. All monitors must connect to the main card, however, I hear that nV's solution will not require you to do so.

 

[Super XP]

nVidia didn't develop Fermi because they don't have a CPU to compete with AMD and Intel. This has nothing, at all, to do with the Fermi being what it is.

Fermi is not a CPU, it cannot run software designed for modern CPUs, for an example, an OS. It isn't in the same market segment as CPUs are. Aside of being a gaming GPU Fermi is a GPGPU tool, designed to bring HPC to a cheaper level and also make GPGPU coding easier (Hence things like cache, which are sorely missing on the G200 chips when they are used for GPGPU purposes - Manually managing memory reads/writes is a bitch, I can tell you that from hands-on experience).

Real good point. I've read somewhere that NVIDIA needed something special just to have a competative edge on the competition. I also read from CPU Mag something in regards to CPU's and Fermi.

 

[KainXS]

well, the way I see it HPC is the way to go, thats where the money is since gaming has been on a decline the last few years, and AMD's current superscalar approach I don't think its gonna be able to top fermi with even double the shaders now, they need a new shader design to be be competitive in HPC/double precision.

 

[digibucc]

I just like to buy new hardware.

I don't necessarily need to justify it every time. I don't waste money on ANYTHING, except for technology, and I'm ok with that. I love it.

I have 3 4870s. I am looking to sell them because i just got a 5850. Even if I don't, I am betting i will get something in the 6000 series in 2011. I would upgrade more often if i could afford it.

The change from DX10 to DX11 made a pretty big difference in BC2 actually. now instead of ridiculously intense glare, it's more like fog and actually makes sense.

plus i've got 1 5850 giving me similar frames with higher settings than 2x 4870s.

agreed software needs to catch up, agreed devs need to stop being lazy, agreed consoles need to stop determining the market.... but entirely disagreed that innovation is unnecessary, that ATi should not be working new models.

 

[cadaveca]

I don't think they should stop, per se, but I do think that they should spend some time working with developers closely, and finding out where, exactly, they need more grunt.

nv does this, and look how successful they have been. nV traditionally is later to fab(excluding R600, which was in fab before nV's chip, but launched after), and they take that time to see what the devs need, and then give them what they ask for.

If they'd take the bit extra time, and work with developers to mature thier drivers, I think the extra longevity of thier parts will prove more profitable, as they can get a larger return on thier initial investment.

I mean, sure, AMD is working with some devs now, but they need to go all out. From what Iheard though, some contracts prevent them from doing so, in some situations...

And I'm right with ya there, on liking to buy new stuff. I've had eyefinity parts since september. I'm now saving for 120hz monitors for S3D too. And i buy everything new...you should see the stack of part receipts I have...

Them taking a bit longer isn't gonna stop me from buying things, at all.

 

[Benetanegia]

What NVIDIA should have done was design 2 types of Fermi's one strickly for gaming and the other with ALL the hardware which was the cause for its delays in the first place. This way they could have released say Gaming Fermi right with ATI's HD 5000 launch, then 6+ months later release the heavy duty Fermi. What was NVIDIA thinking? Who knows, but right now AMD can greatly afford to drop prices on its HD 5000's quite a bit where as NVIDIA cannot afford to so Fermi either performs like MAD or they are in trouble.

That wouldn't be profitable. The thing about HPC and GPGPU is that in general what makes a chip a good GPU also makes it a good streaming processor very well suited for HPC. There's no need to double up the work and R&D costs.

Apart from the above, according to Nvidia's own words, it's the GPU part what has made Fermi so complicated and has caused the delays. The compute part was easy, it was half taken from GT200, half from the very well known CPU cache hierarchy and overall architecture. The GPU part on the other hand includes things that have never been done before, like putting 4 setup engines and rasterizers and 16 tesselators in the same chip. My guess is that the hard work was put into making all those units work together. If you think about it, it's as if they had to resolve the multi-GPU rendering paradigm just for one chip. No Alternate Frame Rendering here, it wouldn't work.

 

[niko084]

Agreed. I have been wanting to upgrade my video cards (4850 Crossfire) for a long time, but I can't find a reason. Even the most demanding games get shredded by a pair. Software REALLY needs to catch up to some of this hardware we have today.

Heck, I'm having a fairly rough time justifying upgrading from my single 4850 still...

I was just looking at grabbing a 5850 *got sick of waiting for Nvidaslow* and now with this its like ugh should I even bother.

 

[copenhagen69]

how much more power packed will the 6xxx series be ... the 5970 is frikin amazing ...

 

[digibucc]

If they'd take the bit extra time, and work with developers to mature thier drivers, I think the extra longevity of thier parts will prove more profitable, as they can get a larger return on thier initial investment.
...

Them taking a bit longer isn't gonna stop me from buying things, at all.

yeah, agreed.

 

[bobzilla2009]

i suppose the more they advance, the more powerful the next xbox will be, we may even get some decent cross platform graphics in 2012! Although that's if onlive doesn't take off (which, in fairness, it could amongst those with decent connections but don't want to look after a gaming pc), if it does pc gaming is going to explode and consoles will die, since that's what it's all based off

 

[Super XP]

That wouldn't be profitable. The thing about HPC and GPGPU is that in general what makes a chip a good GPU also makes it a good streaming processor very well suited for HPC. There's no need to double up the work and R&D costs.

Apart from the above, according to Nvidia's own words, it's the GPU part what has made Fermi so complicated and has caused the delays. The compute part was easy, it was half taken from GT200, half from the very well known CPU cache hierarchy and overall architecture. The GPU part on the other hand includes things that have never been done before, like putting 4 setup engines and rasterizers and 16 tesselators in the same chip. My guess is that the hard work was put into making all those units work together. If you think about it, it's as if they had to resolve the multi-GPU rendering paradigm just for one chip. No Alternate Frame Rendering here, it wouldn't work.

You are right. Perhaps NVIDIA should have released Fermi GPU's for the low to mid range group and leave the high end out of it until they can get it right. But the way I read it is Fermi had major issues which caused this 6+ month delay and so even low to mid range cards would have probably performed slower than average. You make a good point though.

how much more power packed will the 6xxx series be ... the 5970 is frikin amazing ...

New GPu design? HD 5970 being the fastest GPU ever built Humm, I say IMSO the HD 6870 (NOT the HD 6970 hehe) is going to be at least 2x faster than the current ATI 5970 Monster.
When I heard how the ATI boys were talking about this modular style GPU they were dam serious. Drivers will make a world of difference in performance, ATI needs to hit the right note to get that much performance out of them IMO.

i suppose the more they advance, the more powerful the next xbox will be, we may even get some decent cross platform graphics in 2012! Although that's if onlive doesn't take off (which, in fairness, it could amongst those with decent connections but don't want to look after a gaming pc), if it does pc gaming is going to explode and consoles will die, since that's what it's all based off

What I want is PC gaming and Console gaming to join online forces and have us all play together. I want to play Left 4 Dead 2 on PC with a friend but he already got it for XBOX 360, so we cannot play together. No sense in him buying the PC version right.

 

[a_ump]

What I want is PC gaming and Console gaming to join online forces and have us all play together. I want to play Left 4 Dead 2 on PC with a friend but he already got it for XBOX 360, so we cannot play together. No sense in him buying the PC version right.

doesn't CoD:MW2 do this?

as for the HD 6870, i have EXTREMELY high expectations from ATI. they've come back and made great headway. Now that they have the lead i can't see them doing what Nvidia did and just sit on their current chip(i kno i kno, ATI was far behind but still) and let it end up biting them in the ass. i think they'll keep the 5 series and refresh is the GTX 480's benchies are true(they're not that impressive imo) and just do a refresh and won't release the 6 series till Q1-2 next yr. I really think ATI has the better idea behind smaller/easier to produce than Nvidia's monolithic design, however once a monolithic design is perfected...its amazing.G80 is a good example.

Also, im curious as how the HD 6XXX series can release by the end of this year, weren't they saying it would be on 32 or 28nm? but there aren't any fabs that do 32nm GPU's are there?...well nvm lol i remember reading the article saying that GF had displayed 32nm waffers and one was ATI GPU's. hmmm i think this next gen from both companies will be one of the most interesting. Will Nvidia perfect fermi and with the respin/next gen really exploit its potential and come back? or will ATI release its new architecture with the 6 series and stay ahead even longer?

 

[Ben_UK]

Nah, I doubt we will get a die shrink any time soon of the RV870, perhaps towards the end of the year, but I believe any new GPU will be on 40nm.

So I would think that ATi is planning a "5890" to counter the Fermi release, probably with a GPU near 900-950Mhz, and much faster RAM, and probably a slightly better cooler.

 

[Aceman.au]

Yes/// If Fermi owns ATi's current series... Expect the 6 series to come soon...

 

[Solaris17]

Yes, good chance it's coming much sooner than most expect. I do wonder though, how GFI will do with gpu silicon...it's not quite the same as cpu stuff, yet I feel optimistic about it.

I could cars less though..hardware is advancing far too fast for hardware...18 month schedules from 2 years, sucks.

its not really that hard to bealive honestly. the R&D dept. doesnt even care about the 5 seies anymore. i have my money on them being atleast 2gens ahead. remember how fast they turn out is like a move. nvidia and ATI are playing chess. Which move will make them more money? currently ATI is a step ahead so their making bank. Now step 2 release a better/newer product than the one your currently ahead with. Why? because if they do they will always be one step ahead. you see by the time the 6 series comes out fermi will have hit. so it will be a price/perf. war. now nvidia has always been ahead ATI's lead in the generation dept has been behind since like 2003. The stratagy is simple. They want to make money. ATI imo has always had better price perf. So their role is clear. Their making bank being ahead now. Nvidia will match them in a few weeks their sales will go down a bit but should remain relatively stable. Then after a few months BAM a new generation it keeps nvidia from breathing and they have successfully came out with a better products (in theory) and flodded the market with their cards. $$ to ATI all around. If you think the 6 series release is crazy youll have a stroke when nvidia makes their move in the generation war in a few years were they release 2 different generations in the span of 6 months to retake the lead.

 

[Mussels]

commenting on solaris wall of text:

By the time a card hits retail, the successor (be it a die shrink, board re-design or a brand new GPU) is at least one year in production. Whether that equals a card in 6 months or in 18 months, depends on how long it takes - this is why die-shrinks or a board that works at higher clocks (4890) tend to not take long to produce (most of the works already done) whereas totally new designs that would take 2-3 years, only take us 1-2 (with the die shrinks/refresh) filling the gap

 

[the54thvoid]

Yes/// If Fermi owns ATi's current series... Expect the 6 series to come soon...

From the dictionary in my head:

Ownage: To annihilate the opposition with humiliating grandeur. Similar to how i feel when i play BC2 - I experience 'ownage' from others *shakes angry fist - i will have my revenge*.

Fermi (GTX480) will in performance stakes (and I am in no doubt) be the fastest single GPU out there (but not necessarily the best - I also factor in price, noise and heat production). But i dont think it's going to own ATI's cards - they have too much headroom and AIB's are already pumping out higher clocked designs. Remember a heavily(1) OC'd 5850 can overtake a stock 5870 so likewise, a heavily OC'd 5870 will be quiet the little madame.

(1) Something we're all quite sure Fermi wont be able to do.

Anyhow, we'll wait and see.

 

[Mussels]

nvidias cards use twice as much power (and therefore twice as much heat to deal with) - so even if they're cheaper than ATI's cards, they still have that to deal with.

 

[MikeX]

likely => 2500 ati shaders to compete the new upcoming nvidia 480s.
I expect ati to make 4000 shaders for the 6870 tho

 

[twistedneck]

likely => 2500 ati shaders to compete the new upcoming nvidia 480s.
I expect ati to make 4000 shaders for the 6870 tho

MikeX, good point - the fermi on paper could destroy cypress what ever ati has now, what do we do with our old graphics boards and pc's? i mean, you can't possibly build a 6870 system on anything except the new 12 core, so these 'old' i5/ i7 's even though they are over clocked will have to be put out to pasture as quick internet boxes..

so its not just the cost of upgrading the video board - something we will do since we post on this forum, its the entire system. hell i just got my 5th ati 5xx series board yesterday (5750, 5850, 2x 5870, 5970) and we're already talking about how its two generations old and pretty much not even cared about by R&D.


And to the people who want consoles to be the same as pc games for compatibility sake - no way man, consoles are kids toys.. good for parites, etc.. but if you want the best you need a big fat over powered, huge, billion transistor pc that is NOT worried about the limitations of console hardware after year 1. i just gave away my ps3 cause it was a bore. but the kids i gave it to loved it and they could care less about pc gaming.

On and on.. i sure hope cryengine 3 can use fermi or cypress to the max, or even beyond, because i dig new hardware but only if it can actually do something different apart from 20 more fps.

 

[bobzilla2009]

on paper fermi definitely should decimate the hd5870. But it doesn't. Even in nvidias contrived heaven demo the hd5870 is equal in the parts that require little tessellation at stock frequencies.

Also, we could all hope onlive destroys consoles, since it's a pc based platform, limited only by the power of pc tech therefore 'cross platform' (kinda) games will be far better looking and be more complex with regards to physics ect. Even though i can't see onlive taking off just yet, a part of me really hopes it does.

 

[Fourstaff]

Honestly I am waiting for Asus 5xxx Xonar version, where they combine graphics and sound card into a neat package for HTPC people. Very few people are using 5870 to its fullest, and fewer need such a beast.