I'm pretty sure a bunch of game publishers just called me a prat

[streetfighter 2]

I read any number of tech news sites and I somehow missed this jewel of editorial asshattery:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...developers-publishers-dont-care-about-you.ars

According to olde Tycho of Penny Arcade buying used games is akin to piracy. My entire collection of vintage games suddenly kicked me in the nuts and ordered me to march over to Konami, Nintendo, Namco and Capcom and pay them a pittance like a loving son should.

I can only assume that the burgeoning game industry isn't talking about me though because 99% of the used games I buy haven't been produced in any form in years. (Remind you of anything?) Who hasn't gone to the local used game store and bought a fistful of used games with spare change scrounged from the dashboard?

Unfortunately I realize it makes me look even more despicable as a game consumer in the eyes of devs/publishers because I almost never buy games new or at anywhere near retail price.

Next time a friend asks to borrow my car or one of my books I'll call them a pirate and then build a shrine for game publishers while I play the world's tiniest violin for the waitresses. :shadedshu

 

[netieb]

Oh man they are just talking bullshit. Its just because they games a not good enough to be bought at a price of 60€ so just wait a year go to a fleamarket and get the game for 10€ lol. But there isnt any lose to them. Because someone must have bought the game before. So just shut up.

 

[DannibusX]

Funny. I use the money I get back from selling my used games to buy brand new ones. Guess I should just pocket it now.

 

[KainXS]

I do the same thing . . . . .

 

[cadaveca]

I'll take some shit here and say I agree with devs.


Now, here's the thing though...only when it comes to used games bought from like GameStop.

If you use something like goozex, where no corporate entity benfits from the sale of the game, I think you've done the right thing, but I also think that if you don't get 100% of the game, because devs have decided to reward those who buy direct, then that's fine too.


I don't sell my games...most I buy through STEAM, so have no possibility of sale.

But I also have every single boxed game I bought, unless someone stole it off my shelf(I had one friend with really sticky fingers until I busted a couple of them.)


I keep my games so my kids can play them. Ive' also made sure to keep old hardware that's needed to play them.

 

[Perseid]

Yes, because we all know how video games are a failing industry and nobody is buying new games.

This is just another excuse to gouge people. When these stupid online passes cause new game sales to go down because people have less money to buy new ones with, they'll blame piracy.

 

[netieb]

Oh ja. Piracy is the reason for everything.

 

[TIGR]

I won't go so far as to say it's "morally wrong" to buy or sell used games, but try walking a mile in the shoes of game developers and publishers. I realize this is asking a lot in a forum whose population is overwhelmingly on the "gamer," not "developer/publsher" side of the equation, but if you have any sense of compassion or fairness, you can see where they're coming from. Even if it isn't morally or legally wrong, it really is a close cousin to piracy, and the people putting these games out can—and will—only continue to put out great games if gamers support their efforts. In that way, what goes around comes around; you gotta give some to get some.

If you ever find yourself complaining about lack of innovation or features in new games, remember that ultimately, game production is a business like any other and needs to make profits; piracy and used game sales have the potential to cripple that business, or at very least impact the quality of its products.

So if you want great games, support the people making them.

 

[Disparia]

Is it really that bad? I couldn't say, a lot (not all) of the used games I've purchased were intended as backups to games already bought. Fallout I/II, Dungeon Keeper I/II, Strife, and many others - I have multiple copies. No kidding, looking through my games now, I've ended up with 3 copies of Strife over the years.

If they're looking for solutions, I think Blizzard is doing it right. Have all of my games registered at battle.net where I can download installers in case the disc after 5, 10 or more years has become unreadable. Or in the case of D2, faster to install. These games are still available for purchase. A feature that's needed if dev's want to cut down on used copy sales.

Liking Blizzard's model of course means I like Steam as well (91 games!).

Anything that's labeled "one time use" scares me away from the product, except for maybe condoms.

 

[Mussels]

most console games me and my friends buy are second hand, because the prices for 'new' games are just too high to afford.

same as with piracy, its not money they lost - they were NEVER going to get us buying those games at new prices.

 

[Shadowdust]

I felt really irritated by many of the comments made in that article. How can you compare "wear and tear" to purposely disabling features? When I sell a car, is the manufacturer going to disable the stereo at the time of the title change to ensure a buyer thinks twice before buying used?

Then there's people like me who usually buy used games when their unsure if they're even going to like the game. If I like a game I buy used, I will often buy the next game in the series brand new. Two examples of this are The Witcher and Mass Effect.

Game developers need to think twice before implementing "one time use" codes. Buyers may be less likely to buy a game impulsively if they know they can't get rid of it as easily when they're finished.

 

[RoutedScripter]

Oh ja. Piracy is the reason for everything.

nein!

 

[DaedalusHelios]

I won't go so far as to say it's "morally wrong" to buy or sell used games, but try walking a mile in the shoes of game developers and publishers. I realize this is asking a lot in a forum whose population is overwhelmingly on the "gamer," not "developer/publsher" side of the equation, but if you have any sense of compassion or fairness, you can see where they're coming from. Even if it isn't morally or legally wrong, it really is a close cousin to piracy, and the people putting these games out can—and will—only continue to put out great games if gamers support their efforts. In that way, what goes around comes around; you gotta give some to get some.

If you ever find yourself complaining about lack of innovation or features in new games, remember that ultimately, game production is a business like any other and needs to make profits; piracy and used game sales have the potential to cripple that business, or at very least impact the quality of its products.

So if you want great games, support the people making them.

They make and break their own record on total revenue and sales every year. They are already focused on making money over making a quality game because of the almost guaranteed amount of money made per title. Console gaming is quantity rather than quality. If they made games better and had to work for our money more by making games worth what they ask for them, we will all be better off. That means forcing used titles to incorporate the same functions. They are already so cheap as to ditch server based multiplayer to have "matchmaking" on the game that broke all sales records on the xbox 360(MW2). In the words of Tom Petty, "As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free".

 

[streetfighter 2]

I'm curious if rental outlets are going to be grouped in with pirates and used game buyers. I'm not sure how the rental system works, perhaps they pay a royalty every time the game is rented or the game is just really expensive. Either way they aren't going to be making as much money as individual sales of a game at $60 I'd imagine.

If you ever find yourself complaining about lack of innovation or features in new games, remember that ultimately, game production is a business like any other and needs to make profits; piracy and used game sales have the potential to cripple that business, or at very least impact the quality of its products.

So if you want great games, support the people making them.

Games are more expensive to produce than ever and innovation is absolutely zilch. Just look at how ridiculous the production values are on CoDMW2, yet they didn't even provide the basic set of tools to make the game useful and successful in the PC market. I should also mention that the game is not exactly a creative leap from it's predecessor.

Some of the best games right now are free or dirt cheap, made by people no one has ever heard of in a closet in a country that ends in "istan".

I felt really irritated by many of the comments made in that article. How can you compare "wear and tear" to purposely disabling features? When I sell a car, is the manufacturer going to disable the stereo at the time of the title change to ensure a buyer thinks twice before buying used?

Actually for a while I think Honda was doing that . If I remember correctly (which I almost never do) if you bought a used Honda from a third-party and you disconnected and reconnected the battery than the radio wouldn't work because of the built in security system. When you then called Honda and asked for the code to turn it on they'd want proof you were the original owner or they would charge you something ghastly (like $300) to activate the radio.

I don't think Honda was intentionally trying to scare used buyers though.

 

[cadaveca]

My biggest thing is that noone has the "right" to play videogames. If you cannot afford to play, too bad. It's like going to the amusement park...you can't get dude to stop the ride half-way through to get on for less tickets than everyone else, so I don't understand why people feel they have the "right" to affordable gaming...


Those saying it's not about the money are right...it really isn't for the big houses.

But what you don't seem to understand is that those big dev houses are usually conglomerations of many little houses, you contract thier services to the bigger players, because of little revenue. For THOSE guys...they need every sale they can get...so...if 3 guys band together and spend $20 each to share a copy of a game...that's cool. they'd rather have that than 1 guy buys the game, and then it passes through 10 different people through used sales...those little guys wouldn't be hiding behind the big guys if they could guarantee sales themselves.

It's all about perspective in these situations, and I don''t think many people here have spent any time in development...it's probably one of the worst jobs ever.

Dev says:"I slaved my ass off on that title for MONTHS, and you cheap skates can't go and buy retail? Forget you then, no game for you!"


I've hooked a couple people up wit hplay testing sessions with EA...asked them how they liked it afterwords... you might be surprised by the responses.

 

[DigitalUK]

boohoo for the game developers, once you buy something in a shop it belongs to you and have every right to sale it for whatever reason. every day it seems big business is pushing more and more into our own personal freedoms. 95% of games these days are complete rubbish even so far as to say some are even the exact same game with afew graphics changed and a 2,3,4 put at the end of the title. next you wont be able to resell your cpu,graphics card because it could affect new sales.
mussels is spot on they havent lost anything with piracy the person probably never would have brought it in the first place and second hand games same reason with the exception of afew. so they make 100million instead of 101million.
if we let big biz get away with this sort of thing they will keep moving and moving the goal lines.

 

[cadaveca]

mussels is spot on they havent lost anything with piracy the person probably never would have brought it in the first place and second hand games same reason with the exception of afew. so they make 100million instead of 101million.

you pay 100+ employees $35k+ a year, see how far your millions go.:shadedshu Oh, and you pay the rent, the utility bills...pay for the development hardware, the chairs, the phones the desks...the advertizing... it's not like they make pure profit...


You sound jealous of the money they make...which really isn't that much.


But I agree...currently, Mussels is right. But, that situation may have been far different if those other avenues of playing a game weren't there.

 

[Kreij]

Easily enough fixed. Retail/original game buyers get access to the dev supported dedicated servers with leader boards and whatever else, used buyers don't.
Allow the used buyers to set up their own servers and pay for the bandwidth themselves.

 

[cadaveca]

Easily enough fixed. Retail/original game buyers get access to the dev supported dedicated servers with leader boards and whatever else, used buyers don't.
Allow the used buyers to set up their own servers and pay for the bandwidth themselves.

I like this one. Most people don't realize how expensive bandwidth is! I'd hate to see the bills for TPU...

 

[DigitalUK]

not jealous about the money they make bud, i dont buy second hand games but people should be able to do that. ps2 are years old and still being sold in shops. what about the people who own games selling shops who dont make hardly anything from selling the retail games but get abit extra selling pre owned.

 

[cadaveca]

Personally, I think those shops shouldn't exist.

I know far more about retail game distribution than most...

Look up a company called MicroPlay...(not the dev MicroPlay)...they are the ones that kill small game shops.

Catalogue sales are an issue, for sure...but maybe devs could support catalogue sales if the market was different.

 

[DigitalUK]

so how would they sale the game in the first place if there were no retail stores to sell them.
if you only had afew vendors you can forget getting a bargain, and beyond that i could see steam for consoles with games not avaiable on disc at all, next pay per play will be common place.

 

[Kreij]

The analogies that some of these people come up with are off the top of their head and do not really apply.
If you want a better analogy look at it as a warranty.
If you own the original you get the non-transferable warranty (support and online play on dedcated servers with perks).
If you don't you can still play the game on your own server, but you don't get the perks. Similar to a warranty on a product you buy.

Maybe I'm just a simpleton and can't grasp the complexity of the issue.

 

[mjkmike]

@ cadaveca I rock on an Rogers stick and ever mb counts. PS I'm a cruncher as you know. The thing with used games is I would love to get one that even at the used price was worth the price.

 

[cadaveca]

so how would they sale the game in the first place if there were no retail stores to sell them.
if you only had afew vendors you can forget getting a bargain, and beyond that i could see steam for consoles with games not avaiable on disc at all, next pay per play will be common place.

Well, you see, it's MicroPlay that ensures that smaller shops pay near full retail for new games, ...sometimes those shops pay 100% retail. It's not about having a few select retailers...it's that MicroPlay controls distribution, at least, in N/A.